I have been doing some Revit 2016 IFC exports, Doing this I found some elements where missing. After some try and error runs I think the problem is the following: When an object sub category is not specified in your default IFC mapping table in Rvt 2016 they won't export. In the IFC mapping table a undefined subcategory gets the IFC Class Name { IFC Door } which is the Class name of the primary Category which is fine and worked in 2015 and bellow. In 2016 it seems everthing that's specified in the { IFC Door } format doesn't export. Is this right or are my settings wrong?? When this is new functionality it's a major change with regard to the export workflow.
Thanks.
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Your timing is amazing. I just recently discovered this bug when I was trying to export a Mass Form and couldn't find it in my export. This is a bug. The workaround is as you say to explicitly add entries for things that are in brackets, like { IFC Door }. We will definitely be fixing this. The bug is in native code, so I can't promise when you'll see a fix but we are working on it.
Regards,
Angel
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Can you send us a case that worked in 2015 but not in 2016? While this is definitely a bug, we want to know how long it has been in the system, and so far it seems as if it not new.
Regards,
Angel
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I think it's a 2016 problem I haven't seen it before.
Attached a lighting fixture family with a simple extrusion in the sub category "test" which probably isn't specified in your mapping table.
It's revit 2015 and exports fine in 2015 without any changes to settings. Import the same family in Revit 2016 and it wont export to IFC without specifying the IFC Type Class Name in the Light Fixture - test category. Hope this helps.
Hi Ewoud,
I see the same issue in 2015 using your file. When Lighting Fixtures is set to IfcLightFixtureType and subcat Test is set to {IfcLightFixtureType} or Not Exported, no light fixture is exported. If I set Test to IfcLightFixtureType, it is exported. Seems like this is a pre-existing condition. As Angel said, we'll fix.
Andy
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I would like to make some suggestions as a user about this ifc options feature.
Because it's a bit confusing (at least for me).
So far as I know.. it actually doesn't do anything more, than to decide if parts of a family with a specific subcategory should be exported or not. And if it should, the ifc family parameters and after that, the family category (not the subcategory) decides which ifc entity it should be.
This feature suggest that you can send a part of a family with geometry based on a specific subcategory to a specific ifc entity or even a specific type. And the rest of the family to a different ifc entity / type. This would be really nice. But I do not know how much work this will be or even if this is possible.
My suggestion would be, to bring the subcategories back to do or don't export. Or make it work as it suggests and send specific subcategories to a specific ifc entity and type (if the family doesn't have the right ifc parameters filled in of course).
I think the latest suggestion would really match the way people work with Revit. Why should a family as a whole be 1 ifc entity, only because the nested parts are not shared? Besides there are a lot of user groups who have specific ideas about the use and names of subcategories for a reason. It would supplement the primary mapping functionality with the ifc family parameters.
The second suggestion would be to make the ifc type column a part of the load.. and save as.. functionality. Right now this column doesn't work like the other columns. Or skip this ifc type column, if this ifc options feature isn't meant for more specific mapping. And users should always use the ifc family parameters.
The last one.
I know Revit only supports the most important / most used ifc entities. Is it possible to add a drop down options with relevant + supported entities and types? And people will be really happy if the ifc family parameters in Revit also have drop downs with relevant +supported ifc entities and types.
I know, the most important thing is to get Revit export/import been certified. And that 'bugs' are being fixed. But I think there is also a list with 'nice to have's'. So perhaps these suggestions will be a nice input for this list.
Regards,
Teun.
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We know that our UI is confusing and we are working on improvements in that area, and welcome your recommendations.
As far as the category/subcategory for families, let me explain how that works.
If a family has geometry from different subcategories, then the top level category mapping decides which IFC entity the family will be mapped to. The subcategories control export/don't export only.
If a family has all of its geometry in one subcategory (like many Mass elements), the the subcategory decides which IFC entity the family will be mapped to. There is a current bug that it must be explicitly set in the category mapping table, but otherwise it will work.
I don't think it makes sense to export one family to multiple types at once. An IFC entity logically corresponds to one Revit instance with one GUID, and I don't think we want to split it up.
For the rest of it, we are looking to use more dropdowns to reduce syntax errors. I don't know that there are a lot of entities that we don't support at the moment, though - do you have an example of one that you'd like supported?
Regards,
Angel
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Thanks for the response and the explanation of how the subcategories work.
I think you have a point with the guid. Especially if every guid needs to correspond with an unique element in Revit. I will think about this for a while. But basically the reason that you want to skip a subcategory is the same reason you want to map a subcategory to a different entity. You can also think about Bounding Boxes, Clearance Zones, Connection Zones, Maintenance Zones, Placement Zones. And there is already distinction between 2D and 3D. Or the object and the opening it needs. It will also give the user more flexibility when making a family. So he doesn't need to not use shared versions of everything that is different, but still has strong connections to the family it is in. Well let me think about this.
The subcategory mapping doesn't work with a generic model or a window. So I'm not sure if it will work for other categories. I will check with a mass category.
I will make a list for you with new entities that I wanted to use while mapping the DRS. So you get at least an idea about how I'm thinking about mapping to ifc. I'll send it to angel.velez@autodesk.com.
Regards,
Teun.
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Please do send your list. Also, if you find an example where the subcategory mapping doesn't work the way I described, send that to. It could be that I didn't describe it well, that there is a bug, or both.
angel
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I'm seeing a strange bug, where the .txt looks okay (managed in excel, then copied to .txt), but when I import the file, the ending letter is cut off. Exports okay.
Hi Angel,
I send you some test Revit files where I wasn't able to map a subcategory as you said it should be able to. Do you already have a glue what went wrong.
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We have found the issue at least in some cases - for example, beams in some cases weren't respecting these sub-category settings. For the general issue that the table is just hard to use, we are also working on that and will have a first pass at a better solution in the near future, which we will post here when ready.
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I have now this behaviour:
1. If I load and place a family in a Revit project that has a subcategory that didn't yet exist in the Revit project, and directly export the project to IFC, it's correctly exported.
2. After I change something in the subcategory mapping dialog (e.g.push the 'standard' button), and do the export again, the family is not exported anymore.
I used an Electrical Fixture family, with the IFCExportAs parameters filled with 'IfcJunctionBoxType' and IFCExportType parameter as 'NOTDEFINED'. I would expect that these parameters have priority over the category/subcategorymapping. But apparently the mapping influences the export even if the IFC parameters are filled.
Last edit: René 2016-08-22
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We're having the same issue with exporting a IFC after a change in the IFC export mapping table.
Is there any timetable when this is gonna be solved. We've got some major problems because of this.
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This bug still seems to be alive and kicking in R16 and R17. (not in R18)
New subcategories export as expected in R16 and R17.
And when you open the Ifc Option dialog the new subcategories first apear as {ifcPleaseDoExport} . But when you OK this UI (even without changing). The second time you open the dialog there will be a Not Exported. And that is exactly what the exporter will be doing. |-(
Furthermore clicking Standard or Load will return the {ifcPleaseDoExport} for all the new subcategories. And exiting this UI with Cancel will ... save the changes to {ifcPleaseDoExport} ... and everything will export fine ...
For all of you who cannot update projects to R18 be aware of this.
Do not look for trouble, and OK the UI.
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Hi,
I have been doing some Revit 2016 IFC exports, Doing this I found some elements where missing. After some try and error runs I think the problem is the following: When an object sub category is not specified in your default IFC mapping table in Rvt 2016 they won't export. In the IFC mapping table a undefined subcategory gets the IFC Class Name { IFC Door } which is the Class name of the primary Category which is fine and worked in 2015 and bellow. In 2016 it seems everthing that's specified in the { IFC Door } format doesn't export. Is this right or are my settings wrong?? When this is new functionality it's a major change with regard to the export workflow.
Thanks.
Hi,
Your timing is amazing. I just recently discovered this bug when I was trying to export a Mass Form and couldn't find it in my export. This is a bug. The workaround is as you say to explicitly add entries for things that are in brackets, like { IFC Door }. We will definitely be fixing this. The bug is in native code, so I can't promise when you'll see a fix but we are working on it.
Regards,
Angel
Hi,
Can you send us a case that worked in 2015 but not in 2016? While this is definitely a bug, we want to know how long it has been in the system, and so far it seems as if it not new.
Regards,
Angel
Hi Angel,
I think it's a 2016 problem I haven't seen it before.
Attached a lighting fixture family with a simple extrusion in the sub category "test" which probably isn't specified in your mapping table.
It's revit 2015 and exports fine in 2015 without any changes to settings. Import the same family in Revit 2016 and it wont export to IFC without specifying the IFC Type Class Name in the Light Fixture - test category. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ewoud
Hi Ewoud,
I see the same issue in 2015 using your file. When Lighting Fixtures is set to IfcLightFixtureType and subcat Test is set to {IfcLightFixtureType} or Not Exported, no light fixture is exported. If I set Test to IfcLightFixtureType, it is exported. Seems like this is a pre-existing condition. As Angel said, we'll fix.
Andy
Hi,
I would like to make some suggestions as a user about this ifc options feature.
Because it's a bit confusing (at least for me).
So far as I know.. it actually doesn't do anything more, than to decide if parts of a family with a specific subcategory should be exported or not. And if it should, the ifc family parameters and after that, the family category (not the subcategory) decides which ifc entity it should be.
This feature suggest that you can send a part of a family with geometry based on a specific subcategory to a specific ifc entity or even a specific type. And the rest of the family to a different ifc entity / type. This would be really nice. But I do not know how much work this will be or even if this is possible.
My suggestion would be, to bring the subcategories back to do or don't export. Or make it work as it suggests and send specific subcategories to a specific ifc entity and type (if the family doesn't have the right ifc parameters filled in of course).
I think the latest suggestion would really match the way people work with Revit. Why should a family as a whole be 1 ifc entity, only because the nested parts are not shared? Besides there are a lot of user groups who have specific ideas about the use and names of subcategories for a reason. It would supplement the primary mapping functionality with the ifc family parameters.
The second suggestion would be to make the ifc type column a part of the load.. and save as.. functionality. Right now this column doesn't work like the other columns. Or skip this ifc type column, if this ifc options feature isn't meant for more specific mapping. And users should always use the ifc family parameters.
The last one.
I know Revit only supports the most important / most used ifc entities. Is it possible to add a drop down options with relevant + supported entities and types? And people will be really happy if the ifc family parameters in Revit also have drop downs with relevant +supported ifc entities and types.
I know, the most important thing is to get Revit export/import been certified. And that 'bugs' are being fixed. But I think there is also a list with 'nice to have's'. So perhaps these suggestions will be a nice input for this list.
Regards,
Teun.
Hi Teun,
We know that our UI is confusing and we are working on improvements in that area, and welcome your recommendations.
As far as the category/subcategory for families, let me explain how that works.
I don't think it makes sense to export one family to multiple types at once. An IFC entity logically corresponds to one Revit instance with one GUID, and I don't think we want to split it up.
For the rest of it, we are looking to use more dropdowns to reduce syntax errors. I don't know that there are a lot of entities that we don't support at the moment, though - do you have an example of one that you'd like supported?
Regards,
Angel
Hi Angel,
Thanks for the response and the explanation of how the subcategories work.
I think you have a point with the guid. Especially if every guid needs to correspond with an unique element in Revit. I will think about this for a while. But basically the reason that you want to skip a subcategory is the same reason you want to map a subcategory to a different entity. You can also think about Bounding Boxes, Clearance Zones, Connection Zones, Maintenance Zones, Placement Zones. And there is already distinction between 2D and 3D. Or the object and the opening it needs. It will also give the user more flexibility when making a family. So he doesn't need to not use shared versions of everything that is different, but still has strong connections to the family it is in. Well let me think about this.
The subcategory mapping doesn't work with a generic model or a window. So I'm not sure if it will work for other categories. I will check with a mass category.
I will make a list for you with new entities that I wanted to use while mapping the DRS. So you get at least an idea about how I'm thinking about mapping to ifc. I'll send it to angel.velez@autodesk.com.
Regards,
Teun.
Please do send your list. Also, if you find an example where the subcategory mapping doesn't work the way I described, send that to. It could be that I didn't describe it well, that there is a bug, or both.
angel
I'm seeing a strange bug, where the .txt looks okay (managed in excel, then copied to .txt), but when I import the file, the ending letter is cut off. Exports okay.
I've never seen that before ... can you send us the txt file? I am guessing that there must be some sort of invisible character in there.
Hi Angel,
I send you some test Revit files where I wasn't able to map a subcategory as you said it should be able to. Do you already have a glue what went wrong.
Have you found a solution to this problem yet? I still experience the samme problem when exporting objects that uses a subcategory
Hi all,
We have found the issue at least in some cases - for example, beams in some cases weren't respecting these sub-category settings. For the general issue that the table is just hard to use, we are also working on that and will have a first pass at a better solution in the near future, which we will post here when ready.
Is there any news about the solution of this issue?
I have now this behaviour:
1. If I load and place a family in a Revit project that has a subcategory that didn't yet exist in the Revit project, and directly export the project to IFC, it's correctly exported.
2. After I change something in the subcategory mapping dialog (e.g.push the 'standard' button), and do the export again, the family is not exported anymore.
I used an Electrical Fixture family, with the IFCExportAs parameters filled with 'IfcJunctionBoxType' and IFCExportType parameter as 'NOTDEFINED'. I would expect that these parameters have priority over the category/subcategorymapping. But apparently the mapping influences the export even if the IFC parameters are filled.
Last edit: René 2016-08-22
I believe that this is the same issue as above. We are working on it although it may be outside of the open source code, so a fix will have to wait.
We're having the same issue with exporting a IFC after a change in the IFC export mapping table.
Is there any timetable when this is gonna be solved. We've got some major problems because of this.
I can't give you a timeframe, but did the workaround above work for you?
The proposed solution works but is error-prone. Therefore, it would be nice if the problem could be resolved quickly.
Agreed.
This bug still seems to be alive and kicking in R16 and R17. (not in R18)
New subcategories export as expected in R16 and R17.
And when you open the Ifc Option dialog the new subcategories first apear as {ifcPleaseDoExport} . But when you OK this UI (even without changing). The second time you open the dialog there will be a Not Exported. And that is exactly what the exporter will be doing. |-(
Furthermore clicking Standard or Load will return the {ifcPleaseDoExport} for all the new subcategories. And exiting this UI with Cancel will ... save the changes to {ifcPleaseDoExport} ... and everything will export fine ...
For all of you who cannot update projects to R18 be aware of this.
Do not look for trouble, and OK the UI.