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From: Faizan N. <fa...@ti...> - 2003-06-10 14:19:25
|
Hi.
I have compiled the libiax and made enough changes to make it portable. =
Now it can be compiled as mutithreaded ilbrary from VC without any =
problem. I also had problems in using it with my IAX Client but now =
those are solved and it compiles and links fine with Win32 VC projects. =
I have it dialing and hanging up find on Asterisk. I didnt hear any =
sound , so I am gonna do it right now.
Why do you need Makefile for vc. Lets just use dsw files to get working. =
But yes there are a lot of things required to be done before you compile =
and moreover use it in VC projects.
If anyone is interested then I can upload it on my site later I fix the =
sound problem.
Keep up the good work.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Steve Kann=20
To: ur...@ad...=20
Cc: iaxclient devel=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Iaxclient-devel] couple of updates..
On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 00:13, Uriel Carrasquilla wrote:=20
Steve:
The keyboard detection: wouldn't it make sense to wake up on a =
keyboard interrupt (0-9 # *) only instead of every 10 ms. I know how to =
do that in Java but will find out how to do it with C.=20
I don't know if you can get at any 'keyboard interrupts" portably, =
even amongst Win platforms (I would guess that NT-based Windows won't =
let you). =20
And, it isn't right to just register for and get keyboard events, =
because we want the control key state, even if we don't have input =
focus. I.e. you're working in another app, but still can press control =
to talk.
Anyway, this seems to be working fine, and not causing any kind of =
load, as it is now.
Also, if we use VC, is it correct to say that we still need Cygwin? =
I think I know the answer by looking at the gsm and iax code but better =
ask than ass-u-me.=20
It should be possible to make the whole library compile with VC, and =
without cygwin, but I haven't done that yet. =20
=20
It shouldn't be hard to do (just compile all the same files, plus or =
minus a few compatibility things to fix, perhaps), but It's just harder =
for me to maintain that way. I'd need to maintain two makefiles (one =
for VC, plus one for everything else), and then test 4 builds instead of =
three.
So, if someone steps up and makes proper nmake/VC makefiles (and any =
needed portability fixes), I'll definately keep them in CVS. =20
-SteveK
Regards,
Uriel=20
-----Original Message-----
From: iax...@li... =
[mailto:iax...@li...]On Behalf Of Steve =
Kann
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 7:37 PM
To: iaxclient devel
Subject: [Iaxclient-devel] couple of updates..
In CVS, there's been a couple of updates. =20
- Changed Win32 build stuff a bit:
a) now, we have an "iaxclient.lib" target, which should make a =
library that you can link against with VC++ (at least, it worked for =
me).
b) The "wx" GUI build now builds as a win subsystem exe, as =
opposed to a console app, so you don't get a console window anymore.
c) removed use of "sleep()" in testcall, which confused VC++ a =
bit (since there's a Sleep() also in Win32).
- Universal changes:
Changed the iaxc API a bit to no longer use unnecessary "FILE" =
pointers which were no longer necessary.
- WX GUI changes:
Started adding some menus, and keyboard state detection. This =
stuff will be used for toggling silence suppression, "push to talk" =
feature, and mute. None of it works yet (just menus, and keyboard =
detection so far), and I'm not sure how it will be implemented yet.
Also, the keyboard detection stuff is currently happening _way_ =
too often (every 10ms). Or maybe it needs to happen that often?
-SteveK
=20
There's new binaries out there built with this as well.
--=20
Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) =
533-1775
HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn
"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed =
Linux."
=20
--=20
Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) =
533-1775
HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn
"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed =
Linux."
=20
|
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-10 14:17:44
|
Obaid, start by looking at the README in CVS. If you don't have CVS, look at the sourceforge directions. -SteveK On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 02:53, SYED OBAID AMIN wrote: > Hi All > > I m graduate student and trying to build Win 32 IAX client as my project, > would any 1 help me wat should b the staring point and where can i find doc > about using LIBIAX API. > > Any help in this regard would b very helpful for me > > Obaid > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The best > thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features > you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com. > _______________________________________________ > Iaxclient-devel mailing list > Iax...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/iaxclient-devel -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-10 13:43:07
|
On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 00:13, Uriel Carrasquilla wrote: > Steve: > The keyboard detection: wouldn't it make sense to wake up on a > keyboard interrupt (0-9 # *) only instead of every 10 ms. I know how > to do that in Java but will find out how to do it with C. I don't know if you can get at any 'keyboard interrupts" portably, even amongst Win platforms (I would guess that NT-based Windows won't let you). And, it isn't right to just register for and get keyboard events, because we want the control key state, even if we don't have input focus. I.e. you're working in another app, but still can press control to talk. Anyway, this seems to be working fine, and not causing any kind of load, as it is now. > Also, if we use VC, is it correct to say that we still need Cygwin? I > think I know the answer by looking at the gsm and iax code but better > ask than ass-u-me. It should be possible to make the whole library compile with VC, and without cygwin, but I haven't done that yet. It shouldn't be hard to do (just compile all the same files, plus or minus a few compatibility things to fix, perhaps), but It's just harder for me to maintain that way. I'd need to maintain two makefiles (one for VC, plus one for everything else), and then test 4 builds instead of three. So, if someone steps up and makes proper nmake/VC makefiles (and any needed portability fixes), I'll definately keep them in CVS. -SteveK > Regards, > Uriel > > -----Original Message----- > From: iax...@li... > [mailto:iax...@li...]On Behalf > Of Steve Kann > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 7:37 PM > To: iaxclient devel > Subject: [Iaxclient-devel] couple of updates.. > > > In CVS, there's been a couple of updates. > > - Changed Win32 build stuff a bit: > a) now, we have an "iaxclient.lib" target, which should > make a library that you can link against with VC++ (at least, > it worked for me). > > b) The "wx" GUI build now builds as a win subsystem exe, as > opposed to a console app, so you don't get a console window > anymore. > > c) removed use of "sleep()" in testcall, which confused > VC++ a bit (since there's a Sleep() also in Win32). > > > - Universal changes: > Changed the iaxc API a bit to no longer use unnecessary > "FILE" pointers which were no longer necessary. > > - WX GUI changes: > Started adding some menus, and keyboard state detection. > This stuff will be used for toggling silence suppression, > "push to talk" feature, and mute. None of it works yet (just > menus, and keyboard detection so far), and I'm not sure how it > will be implemented yet. > > Also, the keyboard detection stuff is currently happening > _way_ too often (every 10ms). Or maybe it needs to happen > that often? > > -SteveK > > > There's new binaries out there built with this as well. > > > > -- > Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 > HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn > "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-10 13:37:01
|
On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 03:07, Uriel Carrasquilla wrote: > Steve: > I am a bit confused. After 4 hours I got Cygwin installed (it is > big). MinGW was fast. > When I look at the MinGW/bin there is no "make" a-la Unix. The same > goes for gcc. They are all prefixed with mingw with an exe suffix. > When I use the bash shell from Cygwin, I modified the path > (/etc/profile) to look in MinGW/bin. > I moved the iaxclient CSV to the cywin/usr/src location. > Could you outline, if it is not too much trouble, what I need to do in > order to compile? > I am bagged, I have been up since 7 AM and it is 2:25 AM so I am > going to call it a quit. That's normal, actually. The idea with MinGW && cygwin is to use MinGW just for gcc and libtools, but to use cygwin for everything else (shell, make, etc). So, when you have mingw in your path ahead of cygwin, the mingw tools (gcc, g++, etc) will come before the cygwin ones. Of course, the reason I do it this way, is simple: cygwin has better shell and make, but minGW makes standalone Win32 .EXEs (as opposed to cygwin, which required cygwin DLL). so, you should have _both_ cygwin and mingw stuff in your path, but have the mingw stuff first. -SteveK > > Regards, > Uriel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Kann [mailto:st...@st...] > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 9:34 AM > To: ur...@ad... > Subject: RE: [Iaxclient-devel] iaxclient news > > > On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 19:45, Uriel Carrasquilla wrote: > > > Steve: > > Just talked to my wife over one of my * extensions from my > > windows machine. This is GREAT stuff. > > I have to admit that I am more of a Java guy than "c". > > However, I do get by with "c" but not for GUI's. What I am > > going to do next is download the samples and see if I can > > somehow interface a Java GUI to the "c" routines you have. > > > You should be able to, via JNI or whatnot, but I can't help > you there :) > > If I were you, I'd suggest looking into wxWindows GUI stuff. > I think you'll find it pretty straightforward if you already > know Java GUI stuff, since it is also an OO framework. > > -SteveK > > > > > Regards, > > Uriel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steve Kann [mailto:st...@st...] > > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 1:45 PM > > To: ur...@ad... > > Cc: iax...@li... > > Subject: Re: [Iaxclient-devel] iaxclient news > > > > > > Uriel, > > > > The syntax is just like the syntax in > > extensions.conf, except that you don't need to > > prefix things with "IAX/". > > > > so, on your box, you'd dial "guest@192.168.10.1" > > > > Or, more generally, > > "user[:password]@server[/extension[@context]] > > > > You don't need to have wx and testcall in the same > > directory. Just one or the other. > > > > -SteveK > > > > > > On Saturday, June 7, 2003, at 02:37 PM, Uriel > > Carrasquilla wrote: > > > > > > This is great news. > > I downloaded the binaries for Windows and > > then executed the iax-testcall.exe program. > > WxWin32.exe in the same subdirectory. > > I have * in my LAN. How do I tell it to > > call 192.168.10.1 (where asterisk is?). > > What do I need to do in *? > > How do I dial an extension, eg. 2001? > > I get a message that it is calling > > guest@10.23.1.31/9999 . I do have guest > > set up in my * but it is not at 10.23.1.31. > > I assume the 9999 is the password, correct? > > What would be the sequence for a simple > > call? > > I am very excited about this development. > > After playing with SIP, I would rather work > > with IAX. > > > > Uriel > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: > > iax...@li... > > [mailto:iax...@li...]On Behalf Of Steve Kann > > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:37 PM > > To: iaxclient devel > > Subject: [Iaxclient-devel] iaxclient news > > > > > > If you're on this list, you probably are > > around on IRC, and already know this, but: > > > > There's now wxWindows based GUI clients, > > based on iaxclient, available. > > > > They're actually quite usable as a basic > > outgoing-only softphone. > > > > They're working now on Windows, Linux, and > > MacOSX. > > > > Binaries are available at > > http://iaxclient.sf.net/ source code is in > > CVS. > > > > > > > > > > > > <image.tiff> > > -- > Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 > HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn > "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
|
From: SYED O. A. <sye...@ho...> - 2003-06-10 06:53:23
|
Hi All I m graduate student and trying to build Win 32 IAX client as my project, would any 1 help me wat should b the staring point and where can i find doc about using LIBIAX API. Any help in this regard would b very helpful for me Obaid _________________________________________________________________ |
|
From: SYED O. A. <sye...@ho...> - 2003-06-10 06:53:16
|
Hi All I m graduate student and trying to build Win 32 IAX client as my project, would any 1 help me wat should b the staring point and where can i find doc about using LIBIAX API. Any help in this regard would b very helpful for me Obaid _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-09 23:51:29
|
Hey kc, Have you had a chance to see what we've done with iaxclient lately? We have working clients on all three platforms now. (plenty of work left to do, though!). On Tue, 2003-03-04 at 19:40, The Sysop wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I use bcb 6 to compile an new version of IAX lib from cvs .. This is > working but seems to have here and there some quarks .. ( at the > moment i am struckling with (un) authenticated calls) > > My question now is .. are these problems applying to this version of > the iax lib as well ?? Or do you guys use an different cvs or versions > that are outside digium cvs ?? > > As far as I can see This version I just resently obtained doesn't use > direct X, but native Api calls .. and to my first impression if I call > my win32 iax client .. it sounds resenable .. > > Greetings KC > > > Steve Kann wrote: > > > Thanks for writing back Andre! > > > > On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 04:49:59AM +0100, Andre Bierwirth wrote: > > > Hi Steve, i use the lcc Win32 Compiler for by C Source. I had also > > memory of problems in my first nonreleased Versions. There was > > > some Problems with freeing of iax_frames but i´m not sure. It´s > > long time ago. > > > > > > My Sound Output is currently in Delphi GUI because i have never > > > Programmed C before this. It was only to try the DirectX API for > > > Output. (This was my first App with DirectX). Now i know enough > > about > > > C to write the Soundoutput directly in C like an > > Phonecore(GNOPhone) > > > modul. > > > > Thanks, that's what I expected, and remember from when I looked at > > your > > sources. > > > > > The bad Quality comes from my hardcoded Buffersize. On some > > Computers > > > i fix this Problem with a recompile and a bigger Outputbuffer. > > There > > > a big problems too on Win32 and DirectX. On the Snomphone you have > > > nearly zero latency for the Sound Output. On DirectX i have to > > fill a > > > Ringbuffer with the Audiodata. And there i have my bigest Problems > > the > > > Thread timing on Win32 is terrible. If i have a Ringbuffer with 2 > > > 160byte Chunks, i have many buffer underruns if i minimize and > > > maximize any Windows. I see currently no Soundapplications with a > > > smaller Latency than 50ms and DirectX, because the Threading on > > > Windows makes it impossible. I have try an Thread Priotity > > Realtime > > > but i have still always bufferunderuns if i minimize or maximize > > some > > > Windows. I think Microsoft´s Window animation have a higher > > priority > > > as a Realtime Application. With a higher Latency and a bigger > > Buffer > > > i have no Problems with the Audio quality. > > > > Interesting. > > > > I think that, in our application, this should be something that is > > tunable at runtime, or at least compile time. > > > > For our application, we'd happily bump up the latency by another > > 50ms or > > 100ms, if it meant really good quality. > > > > Since I expect that many users will be using internet connections > > for > > this, there's going to be several sources of latency in the whole > > system: > > > > 1) Actual network transmission time: Somewhere from 2 - 2000 ms. > > 2) The clients' Jitter buffer. > > 3) The clients audio device buffer. > > > > Something we might want to look at later is to see if or how we can > > "combine" 2 and 3? > > > > As far as audio driver technologies, I don't know what benefits > > DirectX > > has over the "standard" windows audio interfaces, but we'll need to > > support "out-of-the-box" Windows installations without needing them > > to > > go and download and install DirectX, so we'll need to support the > > standard windows APIs as a baseline. Then, if there's benefits to > > it, > > we could detect the presence of compatible DirectX interfaces, and > > use > > them, if the user already has them installed. > > > > > I think the your Library need some Abstraction Parts for Threads > > and > > > Thread Syncronisation. It is not very difficult to Implement a > > PThread > > > for Win32. Same with Mutexes. I didn´t know anything about Mac, so > > i > > > can talk only about my Win32 Problems. > > > > First, Mac OS X is really very much like FreeBSD, except, in our > > case, > > for Audio stuff, and GUI stuff. So, it fully supports pthreads. > > > > For Windows, it's my understanding that their threads and "critical > > sections" are pretty similar to pthreads and mutexes. For another > > project, we just do some #defines to make them act the same way, > > like > > this: > > > > #ifndef _WIN32 > > > > #define SOCKET int > > #define INVALID_SOCKET -1 > > #define SOCKET_ERROR -1 > > #define SD_SEND 1 > > > > #define INET_ATON(s, a) (inet_aton(s, &a) == 0) > > #define SOCKLEN socklen_t > > #define SOCKETERRORMSG strerror(errno) > > #define CLOSESOCKET(s) close(s) > > > > #define THREAD pthread_t > > #define THREADIDDECL(t) > > #define THREADCREATE(func, args, thread, id) \ > > pthread_create(&thread, NULL, func, args) > > #define THREADCREATE_ERROR -1 > > #define THREADFUNCDECL(func) void * func(void *args) > > #define THREADFUNCRET(r) void * r > > #define THREADJOIN(t) pthread_join(t, 0) > > #define MUTEX pthread_mutex_t > > #define MUTEXINIT(m) pthread_mutex_init(m, NULL) //TODO: > > check error > > #define MUTEXLOCK(m) pthread_mutex_lock(m) > > #define MUTEXUNLOCK(m) pthread_mutex_unlock(m) > > #define MUTEXDESTROY(m) pthread_mutex_destroy(m) > > > > #else > > > > #define INET_ATON(s, a) ((a.s_addr = inet_addr(s)) == > > INADDR_NONE) > > #define SOCKLEN int > > #define SOCKETERRORMSG get_WSA_error_str(WSAGetLastError()) > > #define CLOSESOCKET(s) closesocket(s) > > > > #define THREAD HANDLE > > #define THREADIDDECL(t) unsigned t; > > #define THREADCREATE(func, args, thread, id) \ > > (thread = (HANDLE)_beginthreadex(NULL, 0, func, > > (PVOID)args, 0, &id)) > > #define THREADCREATE_ERROR NULL > > #define THREADFUNCDECL(func) unsigned __stdcall func(PVOID > > args) > > #define THREADFUNCRET(r) int r = 0 > > #define THREADJOIN(t) WaitForSingleObject(t, INFINITE) > > #define MUTEX CRITICAL_SECTION > > #define MUTEXINIT(m) InitializeCriticalSection(m) > > #define MUTEXLOCK(m) EnterCriticalSection(m) > > #define MUTEXUNLOCK(m) LeaveCriticalSection(m) > > #define MUTEXDESTROY(m) DeleteCriticalSection(m) > > > > #endif > > > > > Sorry my English :) > > > > Your English is fine, no apology needed! > > > > Thanks for joining the mailing list and helping! > > > > -SteveK > > > > -- > > Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) > > 533-1775 > > HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn > > "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I > > installed Linux." > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The > > debugger > > for complex code. Debugging C/C++ programs can leave you feeling > > lost and > > disoriented. TotalView can help you find your way. Available on > > major UNIX > > and Linux platforms. Try it free. www.etnus.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Iaxclient-devel mailing list > > Iax...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/iaxclient-devel > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------- > 12:03am up 356 days, 6 users, load average: 0.68, 0.43, 0.30 > 89 processes: 88 sleeping, 1 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped > CPU states: 1.2% user, 1.2% system, 0.0% nice, 97.4% idle > Mem: 257620K av, 130248K used, 127372K free, 56024K shrd > Swap: 401584K av, 280K used, 401304K free 52548K cached > > -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-09 23:37:10
|
In CVS, there's been a couple of updates.
- Changed Win32 build stuff a bit:
a) now, we have an "iaxclient.lib" target, which should make a
library that you can link against with VC++ (at least, it worked for
me).
b) The "wx" GUI build now builds as a win subsystem exe, as opposed
to a console app, so you don't get a console window anymore.
c) removed use of "sleep()" in testcall, which confused VC++ a bit
(since there's a Sleep() also in Win32).
- Universal changes:
Changed the iaxc API a bit to no longer use unnecessary "FILE"
pointers which were no longer necessary.
- WX GUI changes:
Started adding some menus, and keyboard state detection. This stuff
will be used for toggling silence suppression, "push to talk" feature,
and mute. None of it works yet (just menus, and keyboard detection so
far), and I'm not sure how it will be implemented yet.
Also, the keyboard detection stuff is currently happening _way_ too
often (every 10ms). Or maybe it needs to happen that often?
-SteveK
There's new binaries out there built with this as well.
--
Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775
HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn
"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux."
|
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-09 13:32:55
|
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 05:52, Masakazu Nakano wrote: > thanks all! > > I was checked and talk to my friend with good condition by that :-) > > and latest MacOSX client is so cute :-D > > BTW: > > and I wish to compile CLI based testcall for SL-C700 linux zaurus. > > Can I get snap-shot and/or tarball? I don't have one, but you can just download the current code from CVS. Go to the sourceforge page, click on CVS, and you'll get instructions for downloading from sf's CVS servers. I've never compiled for linux-arm, but I would imagine testcall would work as long as there's an oss-compatible sound device on the zaurus. (I think there is, but I don't know for sure). Also, I'm not sure about wxwindows on these kinds of devices; I know they're working on that kind of thing, but I don't know what the status is (yes, you asked only about testcall, but I figured you might also try wx). -SteveK > > Masakazu Nakano > > On 03 Jun 2003 10:30:24 -0400 > Steve Kann <st...@st...> wrote: > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >Yup, compile from CVS, or get a binary from the iaxclient.sf.net web > >page. > > > >Works for me, and one other user so far. > > > > > >-SteveK > > > >On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 10:04, Masakazu Nakano wrote: > > > >> Hi all > >> > >> Could you please tell me Can I make a call with mic/spk ( send and recieve > >> > >> audio ) for MacOSX in latest CVS? > >> > >> Masakazu Nakano > >> http://www.dairiten.com/ > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay > >> Get office equipment for less on eBay! > >> http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Iaxclient-devel mailing list > >> Iax...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/iaxclient-devel > > > >-- > > Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 > > HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn > > "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." > > -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
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From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-09 13:30:04
|
Panny,
Yeah, Apple's design for their notebooks isn't really helpful for
VoIP applications. I think what I'm going to do for this case (and for
others), is to have a "push-to-talk" feature, where you'll press a key
(like "control") to speak, which will switch from playing audio to the
speakers to listening to the microphone.
Also, the mics on the notebooks pick up a _lot_ of ambient noise.
Another thing I need to change is that I have the backend stuff running
from a timer from the main wxWindows thread. This is because since the
windowing stuff is single-threaded, it make the callbacks easier, but
some GUI operations cause the backend to block. So, I'll probably need
to change that back, and make the callbacks smarter.
As to your compilation problem, you need to get wxwindows in order to
compile the wxwindows-GUI! I'll write a readme about it, but basically,
if you go to wxwindows.org, and get wxwindows 2.4.0 and build/install
that, you'll get wx-config, which will let you build the wxwindows GUI.
-SteveK
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 06:08, Panny Malialis wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I tested the wx binary it gave a just about useable call quality. It
> was quite crackly to be honest :(
>
> Also, using the standard mic and speakers the other end can (of course)
> hear themselvees as their own voice is played straight back through the
> mic on the ibook.
> Could there be an option to supress the mic when the other party is
> speaking in order to avoid this situation?
>
> The cvs does not compile for me
>
> It dies with:
>
> (cd ../../lib; make libiaxclient.a)
> make[1]: `libiaxclient.a' is up to date.
> `wx-config --cxx` -I../../lib -I../../lib/libiax/src
> -I../../lib/gsm/inc -I../../lib/portaudio/pa_common
> -I../../lib/portaudio/pablio -Iinclude -g -DPOSIXSLEEP `wx-config
> --cflags` -c -o wx.o wx.cc
> /bin/sh: wx-config: command not found
> /bin/sh: wx-config: command not found
> /bin/sh: -I../../lib: No such file or directory
> make: *** [wx.o] Error 127
>
> Thanks, and keep up the good work!!
>
> Panny
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The best
> thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features
> you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Iaxclient-devel mailing list
> Iax...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/iaxclient-devel
--
Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775
HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn
"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux."
|
|
From: Panny M. <pa...@ho...> - 2003-06-09 10:08:07
|
Hi, I tested the wx binary it gave a just about useable call quality. It was quite crackly to be honest :( Also, using the standard mic and speakers the other end can (of course) hear themselvees as their own voice is played straight back through the mic on the ibook. Could there be an option to supress the mic when the other party is speaking in order to avoid this situation? The cvs does not compile for me It dies with: (cd ../../lib; make libiaxclient.a) make[1]: `libiaxclient.a' is up to date. `wx-config --cxx` -I../../lib -I../../lib/libiax/src -I../../lib/gsm/inc -I../../lib/portaudio/pa_common -I../../lib/portaudio/pablio -Iinclude -g -DPOSIXSLEEP `wx-config --cflags` -c -o wx.o wx.cc /bin/sh: wx-config: command not found /bin/sh: wx-config: command not found /bin/sh: -I../../lib: No such file or directory make: *** [wx.o] Error 127 Thanks, and keep up the good work!! Panny |
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From: Masakazu N. <n-...@md...> - 2003-06-09 09:52:40
|
thanks all! I was checked and talk to my friend with good condition by that :-) and latest MacOSX client is so cute :-D BTW: and I wish to compile CLI based testcall for SL-C700 linux zaurus. Can I get snap-shot and/or tarball? Masakazu Nakano On 03 Jun 2003 10:30:24 -0400 Steve Kann <st...@st...> wrote: > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >Yup, compile from CVS, or get a binary from the iaxclient.sf.net web >page. > >Works for me, and one other user so far. > > >-SteveK > >On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 10:04, Masakazu Nakano wrote: > >> Hi all >> >> Could you please tell me Can I make a call with mic/spk ( send and recieve >> >> audio ) for MacOSX in latest CVS? >> >> Masakazu Nakano >> http://www.dairiten.com/ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay >> Get office equipment for less on eBay! >> http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5 >> _______________________________________________ >> Iaxclient-devel mailing list >> Iax...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/iaxclient-devel > >-- > Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 > HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn > "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." > |
|
From: Faizan T. <fa...@ti...> - 2003-06-09 05:17:13
|
Hi.
=20
I tried the same static library build in VC long ago. I had to change =
much in it but I was successfull in it and had it working with a simple =
client sending text back anf forth.
I'll try it with the latest one.=20
=20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Steve Kann=20
To: Faizan TiliZone=20
Cc: iax...@li...=20
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Iaxclient-devel] IAXLIB Compilation on VC
Hi Faizan,
First, it helps (me at least) to clear the terminology a bit in your =
questions. There's "libiaxclient" or "iaxclient", which is the whole =
library from CVS (everything under lib). This includes other libraries, =
of course, including portaudio, gsm, and either libiax or libiax2. I'm =
guessing that this is what you're talking about with iaxlib?
Anyway, someone (Babar) has compiled libiaxclient, with VC, but he did =
need to make a few modifications. I spoke to him about this on IRC, and =
I hope that he'll be getting the changes to me soon. If not, and someone =
else can do this, please send diffs and/or information about what you =
needed to do to this list. Also, another things that I'm planning on =
doing (which Babar also might send me patches for, unless someone else =
does), is make a Makefile target in lib/ to build iaxclient.LIB on =
windows, with MinGW, similarly to how we currently build libiaxclient.a. =
This doesn't sound hard to do from what I understand, and then you'd be =
able to build a front-end application with whatever compiler you'd like =
on Windows, and then link to this just like a "standard" windows static =
library. We could also make a iaxclient.dll in the same way.
If I remember correctly, the changes were to libiax, and in that case, =
what I'm trying to do, with libiax and especially libiax2, is to keep =
these changes synchronized with Digium, so that our copy of libiax2 is =
always the same as Digium's. The current status of this, (which people =
can figure out by doing diffs, and trying to build with libiax2) is:
1) The copies of libiax and libiax2 in our repository are both =
slightly different than Digium's, mostly for portability changes.
2) I've recently updated our copy of libiax2 to build portably, on =
Win32, Mac, Linux. I've also send the changes I've made back to Mark at =
Digium, for him to include these changes back into the digium CVS =
version.
3) Libiaxclient built with libiax2 is somewhat broken at the moment. =
It's mostly working on Linux, but partly due to a hack in =
iaxclient_lib.c that I put in. Basically, there's some problem with it =
where it doesn't get certain control messages back properly, especially =
the "answer" event, so the library doesn't really know a call has been =
answered. At first, I thought this was a bug in libiax2, but now I'm not =
so sure.=20
4) The plan is to get libiax2 working properly, synchronized with =
digium's CVS, and then make that the default build for iaxclient. At =
that point, we'd abandon active development of a IAX1 build of =
libiaxclient. But for now, IAX1 works better than IAX2.
OK, so that's all the libiax stuff. The important things to keep in =
mind are:
1) libiax is temporary, to be superceded by libiax2 very soon.
2) changes made to libiax2 should be as minimal as possible, and =
should ideally be worked on with Mark from digium to go into his CVS. =
This may require from Mark one of his famous disclaimers.
Next, the question about stdout/stderr printing.
Yes, obviously, the plan isn't to have a requirement to have a console =
window. I've already started working on this (Thursday or Friday), and =
you can see the callback mechanism that I've put in place for user =
messages to be sent from the library to library users (clients like =
testcall and "wx"). Basically, the client will register with the =
library, and the library will then call the client back when it has =
different kinds of messages, and then the client can display them =
however the client wishes. For wx, these messages are all currently =
going to the status area, but eventually "errors" and "warnings" might =
make alert dialogs, etc.
libiaxclient itself, I think, no longer writes anything to stderr or =
stdout, once you specify message callbacks (the "default" callbacks do =
write to stderr).=20
Hope all this information helps.=20
Please keep the list updated with what you're doing with iaxclient!
-SteveK
On Saturday, June 7, 2003, at 06:12 PM, Faizan TiliZone wrote:
Hi.
Well I looked at latest iax client(WxWindows Client).
Has anybody tried to compile that iaxlib with Visual C.
secondly, all the porting done on iaxlib with Winiphone etc requires =
a file pointer( basically to stdout).
This requires openeing a console window always. If we were to create =
a win based cilent. Should we remove it.
Thanks.
|
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-08 17:43:46
|
Uriel, The syntax is just like the syntax in extensions.conf, except that you=20= don't need to prefix things with "IAX/". so, on your box, you'd dial "guest@192.168.10.1" Or, more generally, "user[:password]@server[/extension[@context]] You don't need to have wx and testcall in the same directory. Just one=20= or the other. -SteveK On Saturday, June 7, 2003, at 02:37 PM, Uriel Carrasquilla wrote: > This is great news. > I downloaded the binaries for Windows and then executed the=20 > iax-testcall.exe program.=A0 WxWin32.exe in the same subdirectory. > I have * in my LAN.=A0 How do I tell it to call 192.168.10.1 (where=20 > asterisk is?).=A0 What do I need to do in *? > How do I dial an extension, eg. 2001? > I get a message that it is calling guest@10.23.1.31/9999=A0 .=A0 I do = have=20 > guest set up in my * but it is not at 10.23.1.31.=A0 I assume the 9999=20= > is the password, correct? > What would be the sequence for a simple call? > I am very excited about this development.=A0 After playing with SIP, I=20= > would rather work with IAX. > =A0 > Uriel > > -----Original Message----- > From: iax...@li...=20 > [mailto:iax...@li...]On Behalf Of Steve=20= > Kann > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:37 PM > To: iaxclient devel > Subject: [Iaxclient-devel] iaxclient news > > > If you're on this list, you probably are around on IRC, and already=20 > know this, but: > > There's now wxWindows based GUI clients, based on iaxclient, = available. > > They're actually quite usable as a basic outgoing-only softphone. > > They're working now on Windows, Linux, and MacOSX. > > Binaries are available at http://iaxclient.sf.net/=A0 source code is = in=20 > CVS. > > > > <image.tiff> > > |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-08 17:34:43
|
Hi Faizan, First, it helps (me at least) to clear the terminology a bit in your questions. There's "libiaxclient" or "iaxclient", which is the whole library from CVS (everything under lib). This includes other libraries, of course, including portaudio, gsm, and either libiax or libiax2. I'm guessing that this is what you're talking about with iaxlib? Anyway, someone (Babar) has compiled libiaxclient, with VC, but he did need to make a few modifications. I spoke to him about this on IRC, and I hope that he'll be getting the changes to me soon. If not, and someone else can do this, please send diffs and/or information about what you needed to do to this list. Also, another things that I'm planning on doing (which Babar also might send me patches for, unless someone else does), is make a Makefile target in lib/ to build iaxclient.LIB on windows, with MinGW, similarly to how we currently build libiaxclient.a. This doesn't sound hard to do from what I understand, and then you'd be able to build a front-end application with whatever compiler you'd like on Windows, and then link to this just like a "standard" windows static library. We could also make a iaxclient.dll in the same way. If I remember correctly, the changes were to libiax, and in that case, what I'm trying to do, with libiax and especially libiax2, is to keep these changes synchronized with Digium, so that our copy of libiax2 is always the same as Digium's. The current status of this, (which people can figure out by doing diffs, and trying to build with libiax2) is: 1) The copies of libiax and libiax2 in our repository are both slightly different than Digium's, mostly for portability changes. 2) I've recently updated our copy of libiax2 to build portably, on Win32, Mac, Linux. I've also send the changes I've made back to Mark at Digium, for him to include these changes back into the digium CVS version. 3) Libiaxclient built with libiax2 is somewhat broken at the moment. It's mostly working on Linux, but partly due to a hack in iaxclient_lib.c that I put in. Basically, there's some problem with it where it doesn't get certain control messages back properly, especially the "answer" event, so the library doesn't really know a call has been answered. At first, I thought this was a bug in libiax2, but now I'm not so sure. 4) The plan is to get libiax2 working properly, synchronized with digium's CVS, and then make that the default build for iaxclient. At that point, we'd abandon active development of a IAX1 build of libiaxclient. But for now, IAX1 works better than IAX2. OK, so that's all the libiax stuff. The important things to keep in mind are: 1) libiax is temporary, to be superceded by libiax2 very soon. 2) changes made to libiax2 should be as minimal as possible, and should ideally be worked on with Mark from digium to go into his CVS. This may require from Mark one of his famous disclaimers. Next, the question about stdout/stderr printing. Yes, obviously, the plan isn't to have a requirement to have a console window. I've already started working on this (Thursday or Friday), and you can see the callback mechanism that I've put in place for user messages to be sent from the library to library users (clients like testcall and "wx"). Basically, the client will register with the library, and the library will then call the client back when it has different kinds of messages, and then the client can display them however the client wishes. For wx, these messages are all currently going to the status area, but eventually "errors" and "warnings" might make alert dialogs, etc. libiaxclient itself, I think, no longer writes anything to stderr or stdout, once you specify message callbacks (the "default" callbacks do write to stderr). Hope all this information helps. Please keep the list updated with what you're doing with iaxclient! -SteveK On Saturday, June 7, 2003, at 06:12 PM, Faizan TiliZone wrote: > Hi. > > Well I looked at latest iax client(WxWindows Client). > > Has anybody tried to compile that iaxlib with Visual C. > secondly, all the porting done on iaxlib with Winiphone etc requires a > file pointer( basically to stdout). > This requires openeing a console window always. If we were to create a > win based cilent. Should we remove it. > Thanks. |
|
From: Faizan T. <fa...@ti...> - 2003-06-07 22:12:30
|
Hi. Well I looked at latest iax client(WxWindows Client). Has anybody tried to compile that iaxlib with Visual C.=20 secondly, all the porting done on iaxlib with Winiphone etc requires a = file pointer( basically to stdout). This requires openeing a console window always. If we were to create a = win based cilent. Should we remove it. Thanks. |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-06 22:37:01
|
If you're on this list, you probably are around on IRC, and already know this, but: There's now wxWindows based GUI clients, based on iaxclient, available. They're actually quite usable as a basic outgoing-only softphone. They're working now on Windows, Linux, and MacOSX. Binaries are available at http://iaxclient.sf.net/ source code is in CVS. -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-04 19:51:33
|
First, I forget if I posted this or not, but the audio quality issues in
the first release I made last friday have been resolved. The current
code has pretty good audio quality.
Second, IAX2 support has been added to iaxclient; it's a compile-time
option (set in lib/Makefile), and there are currently a few problems
with it (it works, but only due to some ugly hacks; the main problem is
that the call never gets into the "answered" state; I think this is a
protocol parsing problem, but I'm not sure :)
Third, I've added some DSP functionality to iaxclient and testcall:
1) Audio level support: via a callback mechanism, a client (like
testcall), can request audio volume level updates, and in a GUI client,
they'd use this for "volume meters". Both input and output audio
volumes are calculated and passed back.
2) Dynamic range compression: This needs some tuning, but should help a
bit in keeping good volume levels when people are close to/far from a
microphone, and/or don't have their soundcard mic settings set up just
right.
3) Silence detection/suppression: You can set a threshold (in DB, 0 is
full volume, -35 or -40 is a good threshold), below which iaxclient
won't send any audio to the remote side. Asterisk seems OK with this,
although it doesn't add comfort noise (so, I guess the remote caller
will be "uncomfortable" with this turned on :)).
These are all implemented via the "compand" effect, from sox, which has
been ported to run inside iaxclient and outside of SOX.
-SteveK
--
Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775
HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn
"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux."
|
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-03 14:30:37
|
Yup, compile from CVS, or get a binary from the iaxclient.sf.net web page. Works for me, and one other user so far. -SteveK On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 10:04, Masakazu Nakano wrote: > Hi all > > Could you please tell me Can I make a call with mic/spk ( send and recieve > > audio ) for MacOSX in latest CVS? > > Masakazu Nakano > http://www.dairiten.com/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay > Get office equipment for less on eBay! > http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5 > _______________________________________________ > Iaxclient-devel mailing list > Iax...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/iaxclient-devel -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
|
From: Masakazu N. <n-...@md...> - 2003-06-03 14:04:48
|
Hi all Could you please tell me Can I make a call with mic/spk ( send and recieve audio ) for MacOSX in latest CVS? Masakazu Nakano http://www.dairiten.com/ |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-03 13:28:02
|
First, this would be an appropriate question for the iaxclient-devel mailing list. You can find subscription information on the sourceforge site. The basic usage would be testcall "IAX-endpoint", where IAX-endpoint would be "user[:password]@server[/number[@context]]" So, things like "gu...@mi..." would work, as would "user:password@server/2342@remote" for a more full endpoint specification. Testcall currently only makes outgoing calls. -SteveK On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 21:12, mm...@td... wrote: > Iam trying to use testcall but I would like to know what are the arguments that > I can use after testcall comand. How can I authenticate? > Thanks > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through Toaster-Horde (http://qmailtoaster.clikka.com/) -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-06-02 13:37:41
|
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 00:42, Panny Malialis wrote:
> Hi Steve :)
>
> I downloaded the cvs, and only seem to find a win32 version of
> iaxclient which doesnt compile on osx!
>
> The testcall app compiles and works ok :)
>
> Am I looking in the wrong place or something ?
Nope. The "win32" simpleclient thinger is currently broken, and before
it was broken, it would only work on Win32.
The "testcall" app, is the one which I've been using as a test call
app. I'm glad it compiled and worked for you!
There's still some quality issues I need to address, as well as lots of
new features, but we'll work on that.
-SteveK
--
Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775
HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn
"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux."
|
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-05-30 22:24:48
|
I think I'm done for the day, I promise. Or, at least, i'll stop writing so much :) iaxclient and testcall now build and are operational on MacOSX, as well as Linux and Windows. On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 17:36, Steve Kann wrote: > OK, current CVS now works, nominally, for receive and transmit (just a > small typo). > > Transmit audio, in the one test I did, is quite garbled. I suspect > that this is due to bugs in the timing stuff that's being used. > (there's this gettimeofday stuff in there, when it really ought to > just send audio whenever it gets enough from the sound device). > > > > On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 15:35, Steve Kann wrote: > > > I've spent the afternoon here working on iaxclient, and now have a > > semi-portable, semi-working snapshot in sourceforge CVS. > > > > You need Cygwin/MinGW on windows, or regular dev stuff (gcc) on > > linux to compile, and the current code will be able to connect to * > > and play audio from * to your default sound output device. > > > > With either system, you should be able to go to the > > iaxclient/simpleclient/testcall directory, and type "make" to build > > it. > > > > I have some meetings this afternoon, but I don't expect that fixing > > send audio will be difficult; I think it's mainly some bug I > > introduced when I was getting rid of lots of non-portable timing > > stuff that was in there. > > > > There's still, obviously, lots of cleanup left to do, but I did have > > something that worked to commit as a snapshot, so I figured I'd > > commit it and post about it. (I expect that most people on the list > > have already forsaken the project as dead; consider this a small > > sign of life). > > > > -SteveK > > -- > Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 > HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn > "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." -- Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 - (212) 533-1775 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux." |
|
From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-05-30 21:49:10
|
OK, current CVS now works, nominally, for receive and transmit (just a
small typo).
Transmit audio, in the one test I did, is quite garbled. I suspect that
this is due to bugs in the timing stuff that's being used. (there's
this gettimeofday stuff in there, when it really ought to just send
audio whenever it gets enough from the sound device).
On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 15:35, Steve Kann wrote:
> I've spent the afternoon here working on iaxclient, and now have a
> semi-portable, semi-working snapshot in sourceforge CVS.
>
> You need Cygwin/MinGW on windows, or regular dev stuff (gcc) on linux
> to compile, and the current code will be able to connect to * and play
> audio from * to your default sound output device.
>
> With either system, you should be able to go to the
> iaxclient/simpleclient/testcall directory, and type "make" to build
> it.
>
> I have some meetings this afternoon, but I don't expect that fixing
> send audio will be difficult; I think it's mainly some bug I
> introduced when I was getting rid of lots of non-portable timing stuff
> that was in there.
>
> There's still, obviously, lots of cleanup left to do, but I did have
> something that worked to commit as a snapshot, so I figured I'd commit
> it and post about it. (I expect that most people on the list have
> already forsaken the project as dead; consider this a small sign of
> life).
>
> -SteveK
--
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"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux."
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From: Steve K. <st...@st...> - 2003-05-30 21:12:09
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I've spent the afternoon here working on iaxclient, and now have a semi-portable, semi-working snapshot in sourceforge CVS. You need Cygwin/MinGW on windows, or regular dev stuff (gcc) on linux to compile, and the current code will be able to connect to * and play audio from * to your default sound output device. With either system, you should be able to go to the iaxclient/simpleclient/testcall directory, and type "make" to build it. I have some meetings this afternoon, but I don't expect that fixing send audio will be difficult; I think it's mainly some bug I introduced when I was getting rid of lots of non-portable timing stuff that was in there. There's still, obviously, lots of cleanup left to do, but I did have something that worked to commit as a snapshot, so I figured I'd commit it and post about it. (I expect that most people on the list have already forsaken the project as dead; consider this a small sign of life). -SteveK |
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