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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-11-27 04:47:37
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A while back I asked about my HPOJ 6110, which stopped working for me after a few Debian upgrades. The debugging output is at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . Is hpoj still being maintained? Is the 6110 still supported? Is HP monitoring this list? Are any developers here by any chance? Are HP OfficeJets obsolete on Linux and I didn't find out? I would really appreciate ANY help, ideas, comments, things to try, comments about HP or the hpoj project's viability, or ANYTHING here. Is there ANY more debugging I can do to help narrow it down? If there were, is there anybody there to read it? Of course it's free software, and nobody is obligated, but it would really be great. I am at the end of my rope, and my former high degree of respect for HP products has really fizzled away. I have now had months of downtime. Thanks. P.S. Are there any HP people at all assigned to this project? Is it simply dead in the water? Will I have to throw away my new Officejet, which worked perfectly for a few weeks then after some Debian upgrades stopped working, and start with something else? It's completely useless to me now, yet it is the most important thing I do with my computer by far (it helps work around a disability issue by A LOT but I found no other ADF scanner at this price and I thought it would be supported so I bought it). P.P.S. If an HP person could comment (even by telling me that I was foolish to buy it for Linux!), that would help me, since I will then at least know my prospects for getting it to be anything but a very large clock with a very small display and a mostly cosmetic tail. P.P.S. Thanks again for any help of any kind. |
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From: Laurence O. <lau...@or...> - 2004-11-29 20:16:49
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On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 04:47, t takahashi wrote: > A while back I asked about my HPOJ 6110, which stopped working for me > after a few Debian upgrades. The debugging output is at > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and also > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . > > Is hpoj still being maintained? Is the 6110 still supported? Is HP > monitoring this list? Are any developers here by any chance? Are HP > OfficeJets obsolete on Linux and I didn't find out? > > I would really appreciate ANY help, ideas, comments, things to try, > comments about HP or the hpoj project's viability, or > ANYTHING here. Is there ANY more debugging I can do to help narrow it > down? If there were, is there anybody there to read it? > > Of course it's free software, and nobody is obligated, but it would > really be great. I am at the end of my rope, and my former high > degree of respect for HP products has really fizzled away. I have now > had months of downtime. > > Thanks. > > P.S. Are there any HP people at all assigned to this project? Is it > simply dead in the water? Will I have to throw away my new Officejet, > which worked perfectly for a few weeks then after some Debian upgrades > stopped working, and start with something else? It's completely > useless to me now, yet it is the most > important thing I do with my computer by far (it helps work around a > disability issue by A LOT but I found no other ADF scanner at this > price and I thought it would be supported so I bought it). > > P.P.S. If an HP person could comment (even by telling me that I was > foolish to buy it for Linux!), that would help me, since I will then > at least know my prospects for getting it to be anything but a very > large clock with a very small display and a mostly cosmetic tail. > > P.P.S. Thanks again for any help of any kind. > Hi I run a 6110 under Fedora Core 3 without any problems,printing scanning etc. What sort of problems are you having? Laurence |
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From: James B. H. <jh...@vi...> - 2004-11-29 22:40:00
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Hi! > A while back I asked about my HPOJ 6110, which stopped working for me [snip a lot] If you know when you sent the email, take a look for it in the list archives. I'm pretty sure it never actually made it to the list. The only posts that concern a 6110 at all during the last year go back to two other people, and all were answered by someone. The shortest of answers to your questions is, yes, hpoj is being maintained; no, it's not with the same level of energy as it once was; yes, this has been explained in several emails by Cory Meisch, the list maintainer and lead HP person doing maintenance coordination; and yes, there is a future for your HP AIO and linux. It's just got a different face than what you might have expected if you'd dropped off the list. Might I recommend that you verify your subscription - something may well have happened to it, which would also have held your message in queue and also explain why you perceive no activity. I get several emails per day, questions and answers; and I personally have prompted Cory to explain futures to those on the list - and he has. That you've not seen any of that implies that, if you thought you were subscribed, maybe you in fact were not. You might also do a quick archive search on my last name and Cory's last name, and you'll likely also find more direct and precise answers to your question. If I recall right, would be mid-spring 04 and late summer 04. I'd give you more data here, but as you asked for it from an HP person (and that's the proper pedigree to be asking for), and as it's already present on the list, hopefully you'll get better insight from finding that. jbh |
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From: Laurence O. <Lau...@te...> - 2004-11-29 16:23:50
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On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 04:47, t takahashi wrote: > A while back I asked about my HPOJ 6110, which stopped working for me > after a few Debian upgrades. The debugging output is at > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and also > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . > > Is hpoj still being maintained? Is the 6110 still supported? Is HP > monitoring this list? Are any developers here by any chance? Are HP > OfficeJets obsolete on Linux and I didn't find out? > > I would really appreciate ANY help, ideas, comments, things to try, > comments about HP or the hpoj project's viability, or > ANYTHING here. Is there ANY more debugging I can do to help narrow it > down? If there were, is there anybody there to read it? > > Of course it's free software, and nobody is obligated, but it would > really be great. I am at the end of my rope, and my former high > degree of respect for HP products has really fizzled away. I have now > had months of downtime. > > Thanks. > > P.S. Are there any HP people at all assigned to this project? Is it > simply dead in the water? Will I have to throw away my new Officejet, > which worked perfectly for a few weeks then after some Debian upgrades > stopped working, and start with something else? It's completely > useless to me now, yet it is the most > important thing I do with my computer by far (it helps work around a > disability issue by A LOT but I found no other ADF scanner at this > price and I thought it would be supported so I bought it). > > P.P.S. If an HP person could comment (even by telling me that I was > foolish to buy it for Linux!), that would help me, since I will then > at least know my prospects for getting it to be anything but a very > large clock with a very small display and a mostly cosmetic tail. > > P.P.S. Thanks again for any help of any kind. > Hi I run a 6110 under Fedora Core 3 without any problems,printing scanning etc. What sort of problems are you having? Laurence |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-11-30 00:06:08
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On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:23:47 +0000, Laurence Orchard <lau...@te...> wrote: > What sort of problems are you having? Please see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . That way everything can be kept in the same place. Thanks. |
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From: Roberto W. <rhw...@gm...> - 2004-11-29 20:25:09
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Hi, It is very interesting that HP supports the linux kernel so vividly (just check kernel.org) and yet their printers are close to the worst support I have seen since I started using Linux. Even projects that are completely free have better response than this. A change of course is definitely needed to be taken by HP.... Especially because we are paying you when we buy your printers, so the support (and development of NEW software/drivers) should be *at least* better than those given by free software contributors. I have a psc1210 and so far I can't make it work correctly, not that I am trying, I did already and since then nothing new happened to the project, so I don't think the printer would magically start working if I continued trying. Roberto. On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:16:46 +0000, Laurence Orchard <lau...@or...> wrote: > On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 04:47, t takahashi wrote: > > > > A while back I asked about my HPOJ 6110, which stopped working for me > > after a few Debian upgrades. The debugging output is at > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and also > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . > > > > Is hpoj still being maintained? Is the 6110 still supported? Is HP > > monitoring this list? Are any developers here by any chance? Are HP > > OfficeJets obsolete on Linux and I didn't find out? > > > > I would really appreciate ANY help, ideas, comments, things to try, > > comments about HP or the hpoj project's viability, or > > ANYTHING here. Is there ANY more debugging I can do to help narrow it > > down? If there were, is there anybody there to read it? > > > > Of course it's free software, and nobody is obligated, but it would > > really be great. I am at the end of my rope, and my former high > > degree of respect for HP products has really fizzled away. I have now > > had months of downtime. > > > > Thanks. > > > > P.S. Are there any HP people at all assigned to this project? Is it > > simply dead in the water? Will I have to throw away my new Officejet, > > which worked perfectly for a few weeks then after some Debian upgrades > > stopped working, and start with something else? It's completely > > useless to me now, yet it is the most > > important thing I do with my computer by far (it helps work around a > > disability issue by A LOT but I found no other ADF scanner at this > > price and I thought it would be supported so I bought it). > > > > P.P.S. If an HP person could comment (even by telling me that I was > > foolish to buy it for Linux!), that would help me, since I will then > > at least know my prospects for getting it to be anything but a very > > large clock with a very small display and a mostly cosmetic tail. > > > > P.P.S. Thanks again for any help of any kind. > > > > Hi > > I run a 6110 under Fedora Core 3 without any problems,printing scanning > etc. > > What sort of problems are you having? > > Laurence > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > hpoj-devel mailing list > hpo...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hpoj-devel > |
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From: Cory M. <cor...@hp...> - 2004-11-30 20:11:20
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I can't help you if you don't try. You paid for the hardware and the Windows software, the Linux software is still free. I am THE linux support person for all of HPs printing and multifunction devices worldwide. Sorry if I have not been responsive but Linux is supposed to be community based and lots of people besides me are quite capable in assisting you... Cory hp linux printing team On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 18:25 -0200, Roberto Winter wrote: > Hi, > > It is very interesting that HP supports the linux kernel so vividly > (just check kernel.org) and yet their printers are close to the worst > support I have seen since I started using Linux. Even projects that > are completely free have better response than this. A change of course > is definitely needed to be taken by HP.... Especially because we are > paying you when we buy your printers, so the support (and development > of NEW software/drivers) should be *at least* better than those given > by free software contributors. I have a psc1210 and so far I can't > make it work correctly, not that I am trying, I did already and since > then nothing new happened to the project, so I don't think the printer > would magically start working if I continued trying. > > Roberto. > > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:16:46 +0000, Laurence Orchard > <lau...@or...> wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 04:47, t takahashi wrote: > > > > > > > A while back I asked about my HPOJ 6110, which stopped working for me > > > after a few Debian upgrades. The debugging output is at > > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and also > > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . > > > > > > Is hpoj still being maintained? Is the 6110 still supported? Is HP > > > monitoring this list? Are any developers here by any chance? Are HP > > > OfficeJets obsolete on Linux and I didn't find out? > > > > > > I would really appreciate ANY help, ideas, comments, things to try, > > > comments about HP or the hpoj project's viability, or > > > ANYTHING here. Is there ANY more debugging I can do to help narrow it > > > down? If there were, is there anybody there to read it? > > > > > > Of course it's free software, and nobody is obligated, but it would > > > really be great. I am at the end of my rope, and my former high > > > degree of respect for HP products has really fizzled away. I have now > > > had months of downtime. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > P.S. Are there any HP people at all assigned to this project? Is it > > > simply dead in the water? Will I have to throw away my new Officejet, > > > which worked perfectly for a few weeks then after some Debian upgrades > > > stopped working, and start with something else? It's completely > > > useless to me now, yet it is the most > > > important thing I do with my computer by far (it helps work around a > > > disability issue by A LOT but I found no other ADF scanner at this > > > price and I thought it would be supported so I bought it). > > > > > > P.P.S. If an HP person could comment (even by telling me that I was > > > foolish to buy it for Linux!), that would help me, since I will then > > > at least know my prospects for getting it to be anything but a very > > > large clock with a very small display and a mostly cosmetic tail. > > > > > > P.P.S. Thanks again for any help of any kind. > > > > > > > Hi > > > > I run a 6110 under Fedora Core 3 without any problems,printing scanning > > etc. > > > > What sort of problems are you having? > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hpoj-devel mailing list > > hpo...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hpoj-devel > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > hpoj-devel mailing list > hpo...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hpoj-devel ------------------------------------ Cory Meisch HP Linux Test Technician (360) 212-7009 ------------------------------------- The world is coming to an end! Repent and return those library books! ------------------------------------- ****** Current Weather for Portland, OR ****** Temperature: 44.1 F Conditions: Overcast and overcast |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-11-30 01:30:06
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On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:54:01 -0500 (EST), James B. Hiller <jh...@vi...> wrote: > If you know when you sent the email, take a look for it in the list > archives. I'm pretty sure it never actually made it to the list. It made it to the gmane group. (It was probably from another email account not mine, possibly via gmane's NNTP/NNRP, and went through the confirmation process successfully, then through hpoj-devel's moderator approval apparently successfully.) I took that as confirmation that it was sent to the list also. I couldn't find it in the archives in a brief search, but then I don't understand Yahoo's searching semantics. (More recently I joined the list directly from this account, and I sent or confirmed messages from this account. I have grown attached to the mya...@gm... feature, which your list software does not seem to support. Any mail sent to me with anything after the + will work. See below for more on this.) > lead HP person doing maintenance coordination; and yes, there is a future > for your HP AIO and linux. It's just got a different face than what > you might have expected if you'd dropped off the list. I have been monitoring the gmane group for a long time and did read some of those posts, and I am glad that HP at least expresses intent to continue to support Linux. That is probably more than most companies. Overall, however (and this is of course not an indictment of volunteers at all) the impression that I get from more recent activity is that my AIO is probably going to be useless to me now that I can no longer return it to the store -- unless somebody can look at the debugging output. To be honest, I don't know whether it's hardware or software or both, although several people said that it must be the hpoj backend. (OT: trying to reach HP has been a nightmare; their web site seems to have been designed to create a maximum of frustration. For example, there are no email addresses, so you spend way too long filling out an email form, and it asks you to confirm, and there is no send button. Or you try the web chat, and half of the characters you type are dropped, then the chat person (who might be an Eliza-like bot pretending to be a human) tells you that they only support English and drops the connection -- I have the transcript. Then Firefox bogs down with Javascript. Or you try to find your problem, figuring you would read between the lines of Windows errors because they have no Linux error pages, and they got the link wrong. And they don't make it clear whether their "drivers" and other downloadable software are or affect firmware in any way, so you can't tell whether you could fix a problem in the device itself by using them. Do they really want repeat customers? Why don't they just have a simple HTML page that says "Thanks for buying our product. We don't want you to ever have a real conversation with any of us who is capable of fixing any problems." I would like them *more* if they did that. :-() > Might I recommend that you verify your subscription - something may well > have happened to it, which would also have held your message in queue and > also explain why you perceive no activity. I get several emails More recently I subscribed directly using this address. I get hpoj-devel email here. But my post was held as a supposed nonsubscriber. I assume that there is an administrator who will post the post or bounce it within a few days at most. (I suspect that's because I am subscribed as gambarimasu+something and gmail only lets me send mail as gambarimasu without the +something. I would prefer to avoid spam and filter my email by keeping the subscription as +something if possible, and other than the fact that my messages have to await moderator approval, this should not affect anything else AFAIK.) > name, and you'll likely also find more direct and precise answers > to your question. If I recall right, would be mid-spring 04 and late > summer 04. I probably read that. I have no problem at all with infrequent status or software updates *if* there are no serious bugs. A latest update of half a year ago would be splendid if I didn't have a huge paperweight on my desk :-). That colors my perception of the project's future viability. Perhaps it is incorrect to let my perception be colored like that, but it does not comfort me to know that I am one of only a few people who have the problem. Of course volunteers are volunteers and they don't have to do anything at all, but I am so desperate in this matter that if I could I would buy another scanner (any recommendations for very cheap, reliable, non-HP, ADF, Linux scanners? ARE there any such scanners? Of course, it would be ideal if the 6110 were fixed instead.). > I'd give you more data here, but as you asked for it from an HP person > (and that's the proper pedigree to be asking for), and as it's I'll accept help and comments from anybody, and your data are likely to be useful, so please feel free to fire away. I'm skeptical of HP now, but it would be great if some technical people there would comment. Thanks for your reply. It makes me feel listened-to. :-) P.S. It looks like I violated email convention by paraphrasing the old Subject: line in the (was: ...) instead of putting it there verbatim. Didn't mean to. |
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From: bbales <bb...@co...> - 2004-11-30 05:03:46
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On Monday 29 November 2004 14:25, Roberto Winter wrote: > I have a psc1210 and so far I can't > make it work correctly, not that I am trying, I did already and since > then nothing new happened to the project, so I don't think the printer > would magically start working if I continued trying. > > Roberto. I also have a PSC1210. After several months fighting it, I found a small note on the hpoj site that the PSC1210 won't print and scan at the same time with hpoj-0.91. They say you need to load the CVS version. So I spent three hours trying to get cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj co hpoj to work. Never get a prompt back and it eventually times out. cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj login asks for a password, but never get prompt back after newline. My previous post (Nov.24) was never answered. This just isn't any way to get Linux onto the desktop. I'll bet it will be easier to switch my wife to windows than to get her printer working. bruce |
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From: Joe P. <joe...@sn...> - 2004-12-03 23:02:19
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On Tuesday 30 November 2004 12:03, bbales wrote: <...> > So I spent three hours trying to get > cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj co hpoj > to work. Never get a prompt back and it eventually times out. > cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj login > asks for a password, but never get prompt back after newline. It may not matter to you any longer, but it looks like we were trying to use the CVS command strings for hpoj that are listed on this page: http://hpoj.sourceforge.net/download-cvs.shtml Those strings won't work. The command strings listed on this page do currently work, but you have to substitute "hpoj" for "modulename": http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=9973 These strings will work, but it seems that only the second one is actually required: cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj login cvs -z3 -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj co hpoj -- Joe Piolunek |
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From: Joe P. <joe...@sn...> - 2004-11-30 15:56:51
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On Tuesday 30 November 2004 12:03, bbales wrote: <...> > I also have a PSC1210. After several months fighting it, I found a small > note on the hpoj site that the PSC1210 won't print and scan at the same > time with hpoj-0.91. They say you need to load the CVS version. We all really hope that HP is continuing development, as Cory has told us here. Other than his statements however, I have seen no evidence they are actually doing that. There don't seem to have been any updates to the code in CVS for at least 12 months. hpoj-0.91 was packaged from whatever code was in CVS after the last update, so 0.91 *is* the latest CVS. Unfortunately, the hpoj project, at least as it used to be, shows all the signs of being dead. Someone from HP does still visit the gravesite, though. > > So I spent three hours trying to get > cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj co hpoj > to work. Never get a prompt back and it eventually times out. > cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj login > asks for a password, but never get prompt back after newline. The CVS server isn't responding for me either right now. It's probably just a temporary problem. > My previous post (Nov.24) was never answered. The former head of the hpoj project spent a lot of time helping those who wrote to the list with problems. Though David worked at HP, he was forced to work on hpoj almost entirely on his own time. He was given access to HP internal information that would have been difficult to impossible for outsiders to acquire, but the company itself does not appear to me to have spent much time or money on this project. It seemed to be a case of "Let it happen, but don't *make* it happen." > This just isn't any way to get Linux onto the desktop. HP gained both good will in the community and the profits from printer sales to Linux users, but the company may now feel that since it already has those, it doesn't need to invest more. I hope that's not the case. Most of us can see that HP is heavily dependant on maintaining a good business relationship with microsoft. We know that MS does not want Linux to be widely used on desktop computers. MS's past behavior, coupled with meaningless antitrust enforcement, suggests that we can expect MS to be applying pressure on HP to force them not to assist Linux. > I'll bet it will be > easier to switch my wife to windows than to get her printer working. I share your disappointment with HP, but I would still consider getting another HP printer, though a more linux-compatible one, if only because HP's meager Linux support is better than its competitors'. A newly introduced HP model that seems to print and scan well with Linux is the Photosmart PSC 2610v (currently available for just under $300 US at walmart). I bought one of these recently. It's connected directly to my home network through its ethernet port. I used 'ptal-init setup' to configure it as a jet direct device, and redhat-config-printer (on Fedora Core 1) to set up the queue. It works pretty well over my wired/wireless LAN. Actually, I'm more pleased with how this printer works with Linux than with winxp, which it's supposed to be designed for. I'm having problems with HP's driver software on our wireless winxp ThinkPad, and haven't found a convenient way to use the printer with win95. -- Joe Piolunek |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-11-30 20:20:25
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On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:56:43 -0500, Joe Piolunek <joe...@sn...> wrote: > There don't seem to have been any updates to the code in CVS for at least 12 > months. hpoj-0.91 was packaged from whatever code was in If I had known that, I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on my now-useless 6110. > antitrust enforcement, suggests that we can expect MS to be applying pressure > on HP to force them not to assist Linux. <harsh> Are you sure it isn't because upper management is more concerned with golden parachutes and executive toys than long-term viability of the company? I see it as a classic agent/principal conflict of interest. I don't see MS lurking behind this, because the hostility toward Linux would be more straightforward at HP if it were. HP will definitely get bitten for a lip-service-only policy. It would probably be better for them to drop Linux entirely if MS were really capable of forcing that. I blame apathy (see above) and bureaucracy (see my letter to Carly). As much as I dislike MS's violation of open standards. </harsh> > I share your disappointment with HP, but I would still consider getting > another HP printer, though a more linux-compatible one, if only because HP's > meager Linux support is better than its competitors'. Please somebody tell me that this isn't true. |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-11-30 20:25:21
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On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:20:17 -0700, t takahashi <gam...@gm...> wrote: > that. I blame apathy (see above) and bureaucracy (see my letter to Clarification: by "above" here I mean the immediately previous paragraph. I am not saying that the techies are apathetic, only most likely the company's executives. |
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From: James B. H. <jh...@vi...> - 2004-12-01 01:32:15
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Hi. I know the fact that I'm not throwing my hand in to help debug the problem in detail may not be of much use, but let me try to give a somewhat-hopeful response. > If I had known that, I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on my > now-useless 6110. This is the main point I haven't had time to address. From what you've said, I'm intuitively certain that the problems you're having have nothing to do with hpoj. Here is my evidence: a. Historically, printing (anything, on anything) is one of the hardest things for most people to set up correctly under linux. b. Depending on how you set up the pipeline, there can be anywhere from 2 to 5, maybe 6 separate pieces of software that have to be configured correctly, with a variety of settings to be checked and glued together in your particular context. c. I have had a 7130 since March. Every function on it that hpoj IS intended to support works just fine (and those functionalities that it never got to are well-documented in list traffic in a number places; things like copy control from the computer; fax control from the computer; and a number display- and computer-based setting functions). d. The 6110 is in the same family as the 7130. e. It took me about 15 minutes to get my 7130 completely functional, after having a setup for a 1998-vintage OJ 1170C (no card reader, no fax). Everything works fine, and has been working fine. f. Believe you'd said that your 6110 once was working, and then wasn't; and that you'd gone through about 3 Debian versions since then. As above, I'm sorry (truly) that I just haven't had the time to help you set up your configuration. But I'm certain that that's where the issue lies. Please don't beat on HP for that - the issue comes from the reliance, as you indicated earlier, on packaged versions of stuff. If one doesn't go past the packaging and expects stuff to just work, one will surely be disappointed. (This is a big reason why I never mess with distributions - just get stuff, understand what it does, build it myself, set it the way I want it, and go). With linux, you get visibility and flexibility, as a trade to "everything works out of the box." The community is trying hard to provide "out of the box", but there are extremes that can't (and probably shouldn't) be reconciled. NOTE: I just put XP on my wife's machine, and I can't get a serial mouse to work. How lame is that? > > I share your disappointment with HP, but I would still consider getting > > another HP printer, though a more linux-compatible one, if only because HP's > > meager Linux support is better than its competitors'. > > Please somebody tell me that this isn't true. If you've only recently driven into linux, then you'll unfortunately have your eyes opened to this soon. HP support, via hpoj, hpinkjet, and other venues, is far and away better than most hardware companies'. I've been using linux more or less exclusively for 11 years, and this has been clear since day 1. This is why there's a Hardware-HOWTO. Hardware compatibility (more correctly, the presence of drivers for one's particular set of toys) is always the key, and one must always dig into the pedigree of "linux support" before making a purchase to ensure a successful purchase. 11 years ago, no company ever avowed "linux support". Now a lot do, but only as an advertising buzzword. The knowledgable consumer has to work past this and trust, but verify. OT, but case in point: just bought a cable modem (Zoom 5001, PCI). Right on the slick sheet: "Linux Drivers!" Yeah, ok. So I see that, buy the modem, plug it in. Driver won't compile. After two days of google, I came across 3 message threads that, when taken together (but not directly) lead me to conclude that the modem IS supported by a Conexant driver already built into the kernel (same chipset). I simply turn on that driver in the kernel, and BOOM - bits fly! I report back to Zoom what I found, and say "gee, you'd help out many a newbie, and probably generate sales, by getting rid of your old driver on the site and just saying 'for linux, turn on option X in the kernel". Sent this to 3 company offices - no reply. This should have been a no-brainer. So while Zoom confuses, and wasted two days of my time, at least with HP there are SIGNIFICANT resources devoted. Also, like I said earlier - I don't think your original post ever made it to the list (and you said as much in later email to me off-list), so you got a long lag in getting an answer, since no one saw it back then. regards, jbh |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-12-01 03:26:14
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On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:45:39 -0500 (EST), James B. Hiller <jh...@vi...> wrote: > said, I'm intuitively certain that the problems you're having have nothing > to do with hpoj. Here is my evidence: Thanks for replying. I wouldn't normally use up this much bandwidth, but actually your intuition seems to be incorrect in this case: > a. Historically, printing (anything, on anything) is one of the hardest > things for most people to set up correctly under linux. My issue is with the ADF, not printing. (Even though the black ink ran out when an undocumented feature of ptal-pml says that the black level is 50%, that is.) CUPS was easy to set up. Surprisingly pleasant, actually. My issue, which again is about the ADF, is documented in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . > c. I have had a 7130 since March. Every function on it that hpoj IS > intended to support works just fine (and those functionalities that Glad it works for you. My 6110 does not work for me. We can trade, if you want. :-) > f. Believe you'd said that your 6110 once was working, and then > wasn't; and that you'd gone through about 3 Debian versions since > then. Correct about the stopped working. Incorrect about the versions. I don't know where you got the number 3 from. After a few weeks (I will have to look at the receipt and my notes and logs), the scanner stopped working. I did not change any Debian versions. I stayed with Sarge for the entire time. I did not change kernels. I did not reinstall. I did not add hardware. What I DID do is normal apt-get upgrade of Sarge packages, in which, if there is a new version of hpoj or libusb* or sane or anything else relevant, something might possibly have changed. Note: *possibly*; we don't know the cause of the problem yet, because nobody has been able to look at all of the debugging output yet. > As above, I'm sorry (truly) that I just haven't had the time to help > you set up your configuration. But I'm certain that that's where > the issue lies. [...] What in the debugging output makes you certain of this? I'm not saying you're wrong -- might be some SMP thing I have to do that was too obscure to figure out from the documentation (I know about the printer.c thing) and not handled properly by Debian's scripts -- but I'm wondering what error message or scanner behavior led you to be certain? That way I can try tweaking whatever you think is relevant. (Assuming you have time to explain your reasoning, it would be helpful.) > just work, one will surely be disappointed. (This is a big reason > why I never mess with distributions - just get stuff, understand what > it does, build it myself, set it the way I want it, and go). Never mess with distributions? You mean you get the kernel and utilities and applications all separately and create your own filesystem structure? WOW! You're way more macho than me. :-) Again, WOW! May I say it again? WOW! :-) Me, I'm a serious wimp. I just get Debian and run apt-get, and answer the configuration questions it asks me, and if something doesn't work then poke around as best as possible in the documentation or scripts. But I got as far as I could with this one and can't go any farther without somebody more knowledgable (again WOW! :-)) than myself reading the debugging output and helping me figure out what the problem is. Granted, I should know more, and I am trying to, but I got as far as I could. FWIW the Debian hpoj maintainer says that it seems to be an hpoj problem rather than a Debian problem or a hardware problem. And the Debian Sane maintainer says that it's an hpoj problem rather than a Sane problem. For all I know, it's sunspots corrupting the USB cable. (Hmm, maybe you mean you mean that you do cd /usr/local/...; tar -xvf; ./Configure. IMHO that's what apt-get does, except that it does it for me and it puts things in the right places so I don't have to figure out where the right places are. I could try to do that all myself, but I doubt that I would do a better job than the Debian maintainer who has been following the technical issues and knows what "usbdevfs", "usbfs", "devfs", or "udev" might or might not have to do with the devices.) > With linux, you get visibility and flexibility, as a trade to "everything > works out of the box." The community is trying hard to provide "out of the > box", but there are extremes that can't (and probably shouldn't) be > reconciled. Agreed. > NOTE: I just put XP on my wife's machine, and I can't get a serial mouse > to work. How lame is that? What, you singlehandedly maintain your own distribution and you can't get a mouse to work? :-) Well, I know what you mean. I find Linux easier also. > Also, like I said earlier - I don't think your original post ever made it > to the list (and you said as much in later email to me off-list), so you got > a long lag in getting an answer, since no one saw it back then. Hmm, I don't recall saying that in email off-list. On-list, I recall saying that I posted via gmane then and got various indications that it did post, including the actual post to gmane, believe it or not. Don't know why it would post to gmane but not the list. Thanks for replying. And please sometime share your distribution with us wimps. Maybe it will be better than Debian. :-) |
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From: James B. H. <jh...@vi...> - 2004-12-01 04:38:08
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Hi! > Thanks for replying. You bet. (I'll get off this thread with this email, since it's way OT now. My apologies in advance). > I wouldn't normally use up this much bandwidth, but actually your > intuition seems to be incorrect in this case: Ok, will certainly buy that for now (until <whine> I have time to look at what you've posted for details <unwhine>). > > a. Historically, printing (anything, on anything) is one of the hardest > > things for most people to set up correctly under linux. > > My issue is with the ADF, not printing. Ok. I probably got my wires crossed between you and Roberto, who has the 1210 that he can't get to print. By the time I was reading this, and seeing the "it's useless" gist, I was forgetting that your issue was ADF, and that his was "doesn't work". My bad. I should know better than to comment without careful review. > (Even though the black ink ran out when an undocumented feature of > ptal-pml says that the black level is 50%, that is.) IIRC, there was some discussion on-list between Sep-Nov 03, one or two posts maybe, about the then-status and developer's intent for this particular family of features. Bottom line was, intent was there, but lower on the priority list and didn't get done before the realignment of David-off, Cory-on. > CUPS was easy to set up. Surprisingly pleasant, actually. Can't deal with it. Glad it's good for you :-) > My issue, which again is about the ADF, is documented in > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . Ok, tomorrow will have the look I should have taken before firing my yap. > > c. I have had a 7130 since March. Every function on it that hpoj IS > > intended to support works just fine (and those functionalities that > > Glad it works for you. My 6110 does not work for me. We can trade, > if you want. :-) 's'ok. The only badness I have so far, and it clearly is a hard/firmware issue, is that the fax auto-answer gets easily confused over incoming voice vs. fax call, and triggers on many voice calls, especially when there is a cordless or cell on the other end; even more odd is that it will do so even when the minimum ring count threshold hasn't yet been met. > > f. Believe you'd said that your 6110 once was working, and then > > wasn't; and that you'd gone through about 3 Debian versions since > > then. > > Correct about the stopped working. Incorrect about the versions. I > don't know where you got the number 3 from. After a few weeks (I will > have to look at the receipt and my notes and logs), the scanner > stopped working. I did not change any Debian versions. I stayed with > Sarge for the entire time. I did not change kernels. I did not > reinstall. I did not add hardware. Again, my imprecision. Should have said "releases" vice "versions". But something happened, probably not bitrot in hpoj... > What I DID do is normal apt-get upgrade of Sarge packages, in which, > if there is a new version of hpoj or libusb* or sane or anything else > relevant, something might possibly have changed. Note: *possibly*; we > don't know the cause of the problem yet, because nobody has been able > to look at all of the debugging output yet. Wouldn't likely have been different hpoj, as there hasn't been one in a year. Could have been different something else. I'm putting my $2 bet on that. > > As above, I'm sorry (truly) that I just haven't had the time to help > > you set up your configuration. But I'm certain that that's where > > the issue lies. [...] > > What in the debugging output makes you certain of this? I'm not Nothing yet - that's what I meant about not yet having put the time into looking in detail. But I'm challenged by it, so I will. Not that I'll find anything, but... maybe. > saying you're wrong -- might be some SMP thing I have to do that was > too obscure to figure out from the documentation (I know about the > printer.c thing) and not handled properly by Debian's scripts -- but > I'm wondering what error message or scanner behavior led you to be > certain? That way I can try tweaking whatever you think is relevant. > (Assuming you have time to explain your reasoning, it would be > helpful.) The reasoning so far was as in a. through e. points previously, nothing detailed based on data. Now that you've pointed out my confusion of your statements, I'll hang it purely on my visceral, euphemistic observations about distributions. > > just work, one will surely be disappointed. (This is a big reason > > why I never mess with distributions - just get stuff, understand what > > it does, build it myself, set it the way I want it, and go). > > Never mess with distributions? You mean you get the kernel and > utilities and applications all separately and create your own > filesystem structure? WOW! You're way more macho than me. :-) That is exactly what I do. I borrow some basics from Slackware, which I believe is the purest of distributions. Basics meaning, some infrastructure items I just don't feel like building (gcc, g++, libc, some necessary but boring utilities, like groff), and the basic filesystem structure, plus the rc.X contents... and then I get everything else and build from scratch. The most painful one is gnome, but it's not bad. > Again, WOW! May I say it again? WOW! :-) Not needed. It's a great way to stay up on things. > Me, I'm a serious wimp. I just get Debian and run apt-get, and answer > the configuration questions it asks me, and if something doesn't work > then poke around as best as possible in the documentation or scripts. > But I got as far as I could with this one and can't go any farther > without somebody more knowledgable (again WOW! :-)) than myself > reading the debugging output and helping me figure out what the > problem is. Granted, I should know more, and I am trying to, but I > got as far as I could. Roger that. Just asking that you recognize the possibility/probability that, without opening the hood, it's hard to declare with any certainty which hose is leaking. > FWIW the Debian hpoj maintainer says that it seems to be an hpoj > problem rather than a Debian problem or a hardware problem. And the > Debian Sane maintainer says that it's an hpoj problem rather than a > Sane problem. For all I know, it's sunspots corrupting the USB cable. Two items there. First, the classic "it's not mine" response. Almost never have I found that to be correct, even after a thumbnail assessment. The other - my own experience has shown basic linux USB behavior to be pretty flaky, at least using my particular mobo (Tyan S2460, also SMP). Nothing directly clear to me, but also nothing to do with any particular application or library - it's either driver or driver/hardware combination. I can give you more anecdotes on that off-list if you like. > (Hmm, maybe you mean you mean that you do cd /usr/local/...; tar -xvf; > ./Configure. IMHO that's what apt-get does, except that it does it > for me and it puts things in the right places so I don't have to > figure out where the right places are. I could try to do that all > myself, but I doubt that I would do a better job than the Debian > maintainer who has been following the technical issues and knows what > "usbdevfs", "usbfs", "devfs", or "udev" might or might not have to do > with the devices.) Kinda like that, except it's ./configure, as in configure-then-compile/install. Do that for everything, with minor exceptions. Lets me study stuff, and set up my whole box exactly the way I want it. > > NOTE: I just put XP on my wife's machine, and I can't get a serial mouse > > to work. How lame is that? > > What, you singlehandedly maintain your own distribution and you can't > get a mouse to work? :-) Well, I know what you mean. I find Linux > easier also. Trust me - it's nothing I'm doing or failing to do :-) I have no ability to caress any of it. Install just doesn't pick it up, and there's nothing I can do to force it. Had the same trouble with Win2k a year ago. Then one day, it magically picked it up. Sunspots, yes. > > Also, like I said earlier - I don't think your original post ever made it > > to the list (and you said as much in later email to me off-list), so you got > > a long lag in getting an answer, since no one saw it back then. > > Hmm, I don't recall saying that in email off-list. On-list, I recall Not directly. It was brief references. Again, searching on 6110 in the archive turns up nothing until your Hail Mary post. > saying that I posted via gmane then and got various indications that > it did post, including the actual post to gmane, believe it or not. > Don't know why it would post to gmane but not the list. No clue either. Suggest you search the archive on the date you sent it, and see if it's there. I think it isn't, and I don't recall seeing via email with your name until the Hail Mary either. > And please sometime share your distribution with us wimps. Maybe it > will be better than Debian. :-) Will describe off-list, if you like. jbh |
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From: Darragh B. <fe...@co...> - 2004-12-01 11:02:28
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On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, t takahashi wrote: > My issue is with the ADF, not printing. Started to lose track of this discussion so I went and looked at the bug note on the debian lists you pointed to :) > Correct about the stopped working. Incorrect about the versions. I > don't know where you got the number 3 from. After a few weeks (I will > have to look at the receipt and my notes and logs), the scanner > stopped working. I did not change any Debian versions. I stayed with > Sarge for the entire time. I did not change kernels. I did not > reinstall. I did not add hardware. But you did perform an upgrade. Not quite the same case as you but I use RedHat (7.3, 8.0, 9.0, FC1 & now FC2) and I definitely remember in certain cases the scripts being executed by the package when I upgraded packages such as the hpoj being borked. They ended up rendering my printer virtually useless until I managed to remove all setup information and reconfigure it correctly from scratch. (PSC 2410) Lately it has just worked nicely, but it could provide an explaination of whats gone wrong, bad setup rather than bad software. > What I DID do is normal apt-get upgrade of Sarge packages, in which, > if there is a new version of hpoj or libusb* or sane or anything else > relevant, something might possibly have changed. Note: *possibly*; we > don't know the cause of the problem yet, because nobody has been able > to look at all of the debugging output yet. Looking at the debug output and looking at some email threads online, just wondering if your system has detected and configured the printer directly and caused a problem with the ptal system. Tbh I don't understand fully the debug output but just wondering if you looked at the following websites that deal with printing on Linux. Contains details about the level of functionality of your printer with the hpoj system: http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-OfficeJet_6110 Could you be experiencing something similar to the following email thread, doesn't sound exactly the same but same printer and issues with scanning: http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005312.html Finally some details from the SUSE website that are related to setting up your printer, not 100% accurate since your using debian but might be of assistance: http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2002/05/ke_hp-officejet.html Have you tried disconnecting the device, booting up and removing all current setup data for it and then connect it and reconfigure from scratch via the command line? -- Darragh "Nothing's foolproof to a sufficently talented fool" |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-12-08 04:08:58
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Thanks for replying. On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:00:52 +0000 (GMT), Darragh Bailey <fe...@co...> wrote: > wondering if your system has detected and configured the printer directly > and caused a problem with the ptal system. And affected the ADF? I tried killing ptal-printd to no avail. > http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-OfficeJet_6110 Yes, I was impressed by that page, and that is why I bought the device. Didn't help, unless you are suggesting I try gimp-print instead of hpijs to fix the ADF? I have tried disabling CUPS entirely. But maybe that's not what you're getting at. Thanks for the other links also. I looked at all of them, but did not find anything that looked relevant. > Have you tried disconnecting the device, booting up and removing all > current setup data for it and then connect it and reconfigure from > scratch via the command line? Yes. |
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From: Paul M. <duf...@du...> - 2004-11-30 21:11:50
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Shush kids. Cory has suggested that there will be an announcement this week which will help clarify the current situation. You do realize that hpoj is open source and as such, if you feel that the developers have not been doing a good enough job, fork the project. If your issue is with HP policy I would suggest complaining to HP directly, a letter would be be the most effective format (a real live dead tree letter). Most of the people on this list have nothing to do with HP except they have an HP printer. Ranting about executive toys adds nothing. On Tue, 2004-30-11 at 13:20 -0700, t takahashi wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:56:43 -0500, Joe Piolunek <joe...@sn...> = wrote: > > There don't seem to have been any updates to the code in CVS for at lea= st 12 > > months. hpoj-0.91 was packaged from whatever code was in=20 >=20 > If I had known that, I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on my > now-useless 6110. >=20 > > antitrust enforcement, suggests that we can expect MS to be applying pr= essure > > on HP to force them not to assist Linux. >=20 > <harsh> > Are you sure it isn't because upper management is more concerned with > golden parachutes and executive toys than long-term viability of the > company? I see it as a classic agent/principal conflict of interest. >=20 > I don't see MS lurking behind this, because the hostility toward Linux > would be more straightforward at HP if it were. HP will definitely > get bitten for a lip-service-only policy. It would probably be better > for them to drop Linux entirely if MS were really capable of forcing > that. I blame apathy (see above) and bureaucracy (see my letter to > Carly). As much as I dislike MS's violation of open standards. > </harsh> >=20 > > I share your disappointment with HP, but I would still consider getting > > another HP printer, though a more linux-compatible one, if only because= HP's > > meager Linux support is better than its competitors'. >=20 > Please somebody tell me that this isn't true. >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.=20 > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hpoj-devel mailing list > hpo...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hpoj-devel >=20 |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-11-30 22:06:38
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On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:21:22 -0500, Paul Mahon <duf...@du...> wrote: > have an HP printer. Ranting about executive toys adds nothing. Paul, honestly, I really think that in context it was legitimately relevant and not just a rant. There has not yet been a flame war and I would hate for the discussion of the viability of the project to turn into one. We're all rooting for it to be viable. In case you'd like more detail on why it's legitimate: I was responding to a theory that MS was behind things, and suggesting that a principal/agent conflict of interest might be the cause instead. Because I believe that, I therefore don't want people blaming MS or Cory or other HP people or anybody else -- that would likely be unproductive -- but looking at the possibility that it is a structural problem at HP (for which in any company upper management is essentially always responsible). To me, that's directly relevant to the desire of many list members to gauge the viability of the project, and indeed relevant to deciding whether it is necessary to fork it as you suggested. In other words, the relevance is to the viability of the project. We hadn't seen Cory's post yet. (The agent/principal point was the point itself. I did use the word "toys" without any direct evidence that any HP executives play with toys per se, but the rhetorical device of hyperbole, especially in a <harsh> tag from somebody who just went through a nightmare with HP, is meant to be taken as a legitimate non-literal mode of expression. I doubt anybody really thought I was literally accusing Ms. Fiorina of buying a fighter jet at the expense of HP. A vivid non-literal image of corporate governance gone awry illustrates the conflict of interest and might even put a smile on the lips of a reader who has just banged his head against the wall of HP's web site. Some list members do perceive a problem at HP, for better or worse, and if you do not perceive a problem, that's perfectly OK (you can try to convince me), but it's also perfectly OK to speculate about the cause of the problem because that affects our estimates of the viability of the hpoj project for which this list is maintained.) Please, no flames. Although you probably didn't mean it that way, I think your post is on the same order of magnitude of accusatoriness toward us "kids" as people are toward HP. I'll retract the executive toys figure of speech if you want, but my opinion about the lack of support probably not being due to anything other than upper management still stands, and is relevant (even if your opinion differs). And yes, it is open source. HP can abandon it if it wants. But as customers we'd like to figure out if that is their intention or not. Fair game for discussion, IMHO. |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-12-08 04:09:27
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:32:20 +0000, Laurence Orchard <lau...@or...> wrote: > It might also be worth having a look at these pages:- Thanks. I looked at them all, but didn't find anything relevant to my ADF I/O error problem that I had not already tried. Anybody else have other suggestions? The debugging output is at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 . |
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From: t t. <gam...@gm...> - 2004-12-08 05:58:26
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By the way, if anybody who is already on this list reads http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 and helps me get my scanner to work, I will be very happy to send an invitation to try gmail (I have 6 of them) in reply. It's not much, but at least I'd be giving something in return, assuming it's of interest. |
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