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Re: [hermesmail:discussion] Re: [hermesmail:discussion] The question of text-handling

2018-09-19
2018-09-19
  • Music_Mouse

    Music_Mouse - 2018-09-19

    Recruiting a Mac programmer sounds extremely sensible. I doubt it could be
    done otherwise. MacOS has its own or preferred ways of handling just about
    everything, as well as established ways of accommodating exceptions,
    options, variations that will turn up when running in many languages and on
    several versions of the OS. A lot of tools are available. I do strongly
    recommend everyone writing code on this project take David's suggestion,
    get an Apple Developer login and become familiar with the structure of a
    Mac application and the development tools and software libraries that are
    freely available on Apple's developer site.

    I don't know if there are any cross compilation tools that allow Windows
    applications to recompile to run on a Mac. There used to be a good variety
    that allow Mac application source code to cross compile to create a version
    that will run under Windows. If there are it could safe a lot of grief,
    finding the right tools to create once and compile for several platforms.

    • Laurie

    On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 9:32 PM David Morrison davidmorr@users.sourceforge.net wrote:

    I have been giving thought to how best to handle text in Hermes
    given the desire to produce versions for Linux and Mac. Broadly
    there are three options, as follows:

    (1) Handle all text as UTF-8 and, in Windows, convert to UTF-16 at a
    low level when dealing with the Windows API.

    (2) Handle all text as UTF-16 and, in Linux, convert to UTF-8 at a
    low level when calling Linux APIs.

    (3) Use MSVC's TCHAR mechanism which allows text to be either UTF-8
    or UTF-16 depending on a compilation option. For Windows we would
    use UTF-16 and for Linux UTF-8. I am unclear which would be better
    for Mac.

    I dislike (1) mostly because it would require the most extensive
    changes for Windows and I think we should give priority to getting a
    Windows version completed with as few changes as practical. I
    dislike (2) because, while there can be no problem storing text as
    UTF-16 on all platforms, facilities for manipulating text as UTF-16
    may be limited on Linux (and possibly Mac). The bottom line is that
    I find myself favouring (3). It makes for great consistency.
    Everywhere text is stored in char's it is assumed to be UTF-8
    (except of course in contexts where it is being converted from other
    single- and multi-byte character sets to UTF-8) and everywhere text
    is stored in wchar_t's it is assumed to be UTF-16.

    Do we have any consensus on this? Before making a final decision, it
    would be useful to know what WxWidgets works with -- I hope either.
    Soren, could you answer this for us, please.

    I am not a Mac programmer, but have been around long enough to have
    some ideas....

    Firstly, in what context are you wanting to handle text? Messages can
    arrive in multiple encodings, and presumably will need to be left in
    that form? Or are you thinking of text strings as part of the
    program? Or even the source code itself?

    As for what Mac supports, TextWrangler (a version of the very highly
    regarded BBedit programmer's editor) supports all these encodings:

    I believe UTF-8 is most common. Note also that there are two formats
    of UTF-16 with bytes switched. Mac uses one, Windows uses the other
    iirc. No idea what BOM above means.

    Note also that line endings on Mac were originally a carriage return,
    but when it switched to a Unix base with OS X, the default became a
    line feed. Both are still supported. This compares with Windows which
    I believe is a carriage return/line feed pair.

    You might want to sign up to Apple's developer site
    https://developer.apple.com/

    It is free - you just need an Apple ID. It has all the documentation
    about Apple products. There are also forums where you can interact
    with other developers to clarify techy issues. You may even be able
    to recruit a Mac programmer to provide more practical input.

    Cheers

    David

    Re: [hermesmail:discussion] The question of text-handling
    https://sourceforge.net/p/hermesmail/discussion/general/thread/6555fce3/?limit=25#1d5c


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    • Soren Bro

      Soren Bro - 2018-09-19

      A mac programmer would be invaluable.

      In the samples for WxWidgets there are examples of autotools files that
      presumably builds on all platforms, including OSX or Mac or whatever it has
      become. Also Borland C++. I can't get them to compile right now, but this
      may be because I have installed and uninstalled WxWidgets and other
      programs so many times that my Linux is effed. I may have to reinstall
      Debian. No big deal, I just have to backup a lot of stuff.

      Also, these configure and makefiles are very complex. Some even refer to
      the automake build system as "autohell".

      I have it layed out in my head. I even started in codelite, but I would
      like to use the Autotools build system.

      Do you have more experience with autotools than me Pete?

      Regards

      On Wednesday, September 19, 2018, Music_Mouse laurie_spiegel@users.sourceforge.net wrote:

      Recruiting a Mac programmer sounds extremely sensible. I doubt it could be
      done otherwise. MacOS has its own or preferred ways of handling just about
      everything, as well as established ways of accommodating exceptions,
      options, variations that will turn up when running in many languages and on
      several versions of the OS. A lot of tools are available. I do strongly
      recommend everyone writing code on this project take David's suggestion,
      get an Apple Developer login and become familiar with the structure of a
      Mac application and the development tools and software libraries that are
      freely available on Apple's developer site.

      I don't know if there are any cross compilation tools that allow Windows
      applications to recompile to run on a Mac. There used to be a good variety
      that allow Mac application source code to cross compile to create a version
      that will run under Windows. If there are it could safe a lot of grief,
      finding the right tools to create once and compile for several platforms.

      • Laurie

      On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 9:32 PM David Morrison
      davidmorr@users.sourceforge.net wrote:

      I have been giving thought to how best to handle text in Hermes
      given the desire to produce versions for Linux and Mac. Broadly
      there are three options, as follows:

      (1) Handle all text as UTF-8 and, in Windows, convert to UTF-16 at a
      low level when dealing with the Windows API.

      (2) Handle all text as UTF-16 and, in Linux, convert to UTF-8 at a
      low level when calling Linux APIs.

      (3) Use MSVC's TCHAR mechanism which allows text to be either UTF-8
      or UTF-16 depending on a compilation option. For Windows we would
      use UTF-16 and for Linux UTF-8. I am unclear which would be better
      for Mac.

      I dislike (1) mostly because it would require the most extensive
      changes for Windows and I think we should give priority to getting a
      Windows version completed with as few changes as practical. I
      dislike (2) because, while there can be no problem storing text as
      UTF-16 on all platforms, facilities for manipulating text as UTF-16
      may be limited on Linux (and possibly Mac). The bottom line is that
      I find myself favouring (3). It makes for great consistency.
      Everywhere text is stored in char's it is assumed to be UTF-8
      (except of course in contexts where it is being converted from other
      single- and multi-byte character sets to UTF-8) and everywhere text
      is stored in wchar_t's it is assumed to be UTF-16.

      Do we have any consensus on this? Before making a final decision, it
      would be useful to know what WxWidgets works with -- I hope either.
      Soren, could you answer this for us, please.

      I am not a Mac programmer, but have been around long enough to have
      some ideas....

      Firstly, in what context are you wanting to handle text? Messages can
      arrive in multiple encodings, and presumably will need to be left in
      that form? Or are you thinking of text strings as part of the
      program? Or even the source code itself?

      As for what Mac supports, TextWrangler (a version of the very highly
      regarded BBedit programmer's editor) supports all these encodings:

      I believe UTF-8 is most common. Note also that there are two formats
      of UTF-16 with bytes switched. Mac uses one, Windows uses the other
      iirc. No idea what BOM above means.

      Note also that line endings on Mac were originally a carriage return,
      but when it switched to a Unix base with OS X, the default became a
      line feed. Both are still supported. This compares with Windows which
      I believe is a carriage return/line feed pair.

      You might want to sign up to Apple's developer site
      https://developer.apple.com/

      It is free - you just need an Apple ID. It has all the documentation
      about Apple products. There are also forums where you can interact
      with other developers to clarify techy issues. You may even be able
      to recruit a Mac programmer to provide more practical input.

      Cheers
      David

      Re: [hermesmail:discussion] The question of text-handling
      https://sourceforge.net/p/hermesmail/discussion/general/
      thread/6555fce3/?limit=25#1d5c


      Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in
      https://sourceforge.net/p/hermesmail/discussion/general/

      To unsubscribe from further messages, please visit
      https://sourceforge.net/auth/subscriptions/


      [Re: [hermesmail:discussion] Re: [hermesmail:discussion] The question
      of text-handling](https://sourceforge.net/p/hermesmail/
      discussion/general/thread/2f4b1b07/?limit=25#c90f)


      Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in
      https://sourceforge.net/p/hermesmail/discussion/general/

      To unsubscribe from further messages, please visit
      https://sourceforge.net/auth/subscriptions/

      --
      Søren Bro Thygesen

       

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