From: Richard P. <ric...@li...> - 2012-03-24 18:42:25
|
I just wanted to give some feedback from an OpenEmbedded perspective on the topic of this thread. I don't know how closely you've followed what has been happening in the OE world over the past 18 months but there have been some big changes. We were and are all aware OE is a complex thing. Its extremely versatile and powerful but also hard to use, understand and work with at times. The learning curve to new users is steep. I believe we can improve OE and make it more accessible to people. There is no single magic bullet to fix this but are many different changes which when combined should help. These things take time and resources and a combined will. This is partly why the Yocto project was created. Some of the changes: * A push to split what was a monolithic OE into layers. OE-Core is the shared common core with hardware support for specific hardware and other features being added in layers on top of this. * An effort to document more of the system. There is a tech writer working on this full time and the Yocto Project has some manuals which are a start at the documentation problem. They're not perfect, they are a work in progress but they're certainly better than nothing. * Focus on usability: - We recently had a drive of "nominate your most confusing error message" and then went and improved them. - A new graphical interface to building images called hob (still using bitbake behind the scenes) * Defined QA testing on the core of the system. We test that all 4.5 architectures we support build in several different combinations for OE-Core and added automated qemu booting so we can test images at least have basic runtime functionality. This is to address the problem that people pick it up and it doesn't build. Now people should have a starting point they can work from. * Focus on consistency and cleanup of the metadata. We've also gone through and fixed warning messages and QA type issues found in the resulting packages. * Additions and improvements to tools like standalone SDK/toolchains and application developer functionality like Eclipse integration. * Fetching causes a lot of problems (I noticed mention of 404s in this thread). We drove a rewrite of the bitbake fetcher code and made mirroring of source code easier and more deterministic. * Work on improving build speed and also allow reusing of prebuilt objects (the sshared-state or sstate cache). * Implementation of a bugzilla for OE-Core related issues with a good track record on resolving reported problems. So my point is that OE is trying to evolve and that changes are happening to try and make things easier and more accessible. Gumstix is still using OE-Classic and hasn't seen many of the improvements Yocto/OE-Core have brought. Please keep these things in mind when thinking about OE. I would also mention that if there are things we could do to improve OE further beyond what has happened already, the Yocto Project would be interested to know about them. As it happens and unrelated to this, I do have a gumstix board I've been experimenting with recently too :) Cheers, Richard Yocto Project Architect OpenEmbedded Technical Steering Committee Member Linux Foundation Fellow |
From: Harvey C. <hch...@3g...> - 2012-03-24 19:38:36
|
On Mar 24, 2012, at 2:23 PM, Richard Purdie wrote: > I just wanted to give some feedback from an OpenEmbedded perspective on > the topic of this thread. Thanks Richard. I look forward to the changes and the documentation. If others are like me, we look forward to saying "I know how it works" from previously saying "I managed to get it to work." Thanks, Harvey |
From: Trevor W. <two...@gm...> - 2012-03-25 13:29:28
|
Sometimes what I find is even better than documentation are videos. Thankfully there are many publicly available videos on Yocto specifically and therefore OE in general There are a bunch of Yocto videos from ELC-E 2011: http://free-electrons.com/blog/elce-2011-videos/ The Linux Foundation's website also has quite a few OE/Yocto videos. Personally I don't find the Linux Foundation's Video page anywhere near as nice as free-electron's page, but it's better than nothing. http://video.linux.com/search?searchword=yocto&ordering=&searchphrase=all Also, the Yocto Project has a youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoctoProject Not to mention an assortment of videos on Yocto's website: http://www.yoctoproject.org/documentation/videos Andreas Müller has created a gumstix layer for Yocto: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/LayerIndex |
From: Brad M. <bmi...@gm...> - 2012-03-25 18:52:45
|
It sounds like a good direction, but the biggest issue now is gumstix OE is forked. It won't see these improvements. On Saturday, March 24, 2012, Richard Purdie < ric...@li...> wrote: > I just wanted to give some feedback from an OpenEmbedded perspective on > the topic of this thread. > > I don't know how closely you've followed what has been happening in the > OE world over the past 18 months but there have been some big changes. > > We were and are all aware OE is a complex thing. Its extremely versatile > and powerful but also hard to use, understand and work with at times. > The learning curve to new users is steep. > > I believe we can improve OE and make it more accessible to people. There > is no single magic bullet to fix this but are many different changes > which when combined should help. These things take time and resources > and a combined will. This is partly why the Yocto project was created. > Some of the changes: > > * A push to split what was a monolithic OE into layers. OE-Core is the > shared common core with hardware support for specific hardware and > other features being added in layers on top of this. > * An effort to document more of the system. There is a tech writer > working on this full time and the Yocto Project has some manuals > which are a start at the documentation problem. They're not perfect, > they are a work in progress but they're certainly better than > nothing. > * Focus on usability: > - We recently had a drive of "nominate your most confusing error > message" and then went and improved them. > - A new graphical interface to building images called hob (still > using bitbake behind the scenes) > * Defined QA testing on the core of the system. We test that all 4.5 > architectures we support build in several different combinations for > OE-Core and added automated qemu booting so we can test images at > least have basic runtime functionality. This is to address the > problem that people pick it up and it doesn't build. Now people > should have a starting point they can work from. > * Focus on consistency and cleanup of the metadata. We've also gone > through and fixed warning messages and QA type issues found in the > resulting packages. > * Additions and improvements to tools like standalone SDK/toolchains > and application developer functionality like Eclipse integration. > * Fetching causes a lot of problems (I noticed mention of 404s in this > thread). We drove a rewrite of the bitbake fetcher code and made > mirroring of source code easier and more deterministic. > * Work on improving build speed and also allow reusing of prebuilt > objects (the sshared-state or sstate cache). > * Implementation of a bugzilla for OE-Core related issues with a good > track record on resolving reported problems. > > So my point is that OE is trying to evolve and that changes are > happening to try and make things easier and more accessible. Gumstix is > still using OE-Classic and hasn't seen many of the improvements > Yocto/OE-Core have brought. Please keep these things in mind when > thinking about OE. > > I would also mention that if there are things we could do to improve OE > further beyond what has happened already, the Yocto Project would be > interested to know about them. > > As it happens and unrelated to this, I do have a gumstix board I've been > experimenting with recently too :) > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Yocto Project Architect > OpenEmbedded Technical Steering Committee Member > Linux Foundation Fellow > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF email is sponsosred by: > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > -- Brad Midgley |
From: Ash C. <as...@gu...> - 2012-03-30 15:54:48
|
Hi, Really interesting thread! I wanted to respond only to two specific points raised by Brad: - getting Overo to be a 'primary targeted architecture' of Linaro won't happen as Linaro, by mandate, is interested in the newest ARM architecture/powerful cores. That said, I think Linaro is a great offering for Gumstix and I'm looking forward to seeing the changes that their moves to hardfloat will bring. - gumstix doesn't officially have a oe-core respository as not all the necessary packages to make our images are in place. (yet ;-) ). That said, there is some great work by schnitzeltony and and Steve Sakoman to make a gumstix oe-core layer. -Ash On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Brad Midgley <bmi...@gm...> wrote: > It sounds like a good direction, but the biggest issue now is gumstix OE is > forked. It won't see these improvements. > > > On Saturday, March 24, 2012, Richard Purdie > <ric...@li...> wrote: >> I just wanted to give some feedback from an OpenEmbedded perspective on >> the topic of this thread. >> >> I don't know how closely you've followed what has been happening in the >> OE world over the past 18 months but there have been some big changes. >> >> We were and are all aware OE is a complex thing. Its extremely versatile >> and powerful but also hard to use, understand and work with at times. >> The learning curve to new users is steep. >> >> I believe we can improve OE and make it more accessible to people. There >> is no single magic bullet to fix this but are many different changes >> which when combined should help. These things take time and resources >> and a combined will. This is partly why the Yocto project was created. >> Some of the changes: >> >> * A push to split what was a monolithic OE into layers. OE-Core is the >> shared common core with hardware support for specific hardware and >> other features being added in layers on top of this. >> * An effort to document more of the system. There is a tech writer >> working on this full time and the Yocto Project has some manuals >> which are a start at the documentation problem. They're not perfect, >> they are a work in progress but they're certainly better than >> nothing. >> * Focus on usability: >> - We recently had a drive of "nominate your most confusing error >> message" and then went and improved them. >> - A new graphical interface to building images called hob (still >> using bitbake behind the scenes) >> * Defined QA testing on the core of the system. We test that all 4.5 >> architectures we support build in several different combinations for >> OE-Core and added automated qemu booting so we can test images at >> least have basic runtime functionality. This is to address the >> problem that people pick it up and it doesn't build. Now people >> should have a starting point they can work from. >> * Focus on consistency and cleanup of the metadata. We've also gone >> through and fixed warning messages and QA type issues found in the >> resulting packages. >> * Additions and improvements to tools like standalone SDK/toolchains >> and application developer functionality like Eclipse integration. >> * Fetching causes a lot of problems (I noticed mention of 404s in this >> thread). We drove a rewrite of the bitbake fetcher code and made >> mirroring of source code easier and more deterministic. >> * Work on improving build speed and also allow reusing of prebuilt >> objects (the sshared-state or sstate cache). >> * Implementation of a bugzilla for OE-Core related issues with a good >> track record on resolving reported problems. >> >> So my point is that OE is trying to evolve and that changes are >> happening to try and make things easier and more accessible. Gumstix is >> still using OE-Classic and hasn't seen many of the improvements >> Yocto/OE-Core have brought. Please keep these things in mind when >> thinking about OE. >> >> I would also mention that if there are things we could do to improve OE >> further beyond what has happened already, the Yocto Project would be >> interested to know about them. >> >> As it happens and unrelated to this, I do have a gumstix board I've been >> experimenting with recently too :) >> >> Cheers, >> >> Richard >> >> Yocto Project Architect >> OpenEmbedded Technical Steering Committee Member >> Linux Foundation Fellow >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> This SF email is sponsosred by: >> Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure >> _______________________________________________ >> gumstix-users mailing list >> gum...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users >> > > -- > Brad Midgley > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF email is sponsosred by: > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > |
From: Andreas M. <sch...@go...> - 2012-03-26 08:12:36
|
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Brad Midgley <bmi...@gm...> wrote: > It sounds like a good direction, but the biggest issue now is gumstix OE is > forked. It won't see these improvements. The fork is based upon oe-classic which depreciates. All points mentioned by Richard are found in Yocto/OE-core. For gumstix Steve Sakoman created a layer [1] and I created a simple bsp-layer for gumstix overo [2]. Andreas [1] http://www.sakoman.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=meta-sakoman.git;a=summary [2] https://gitorious.org/schnitzeltony-oe-meta/meta-gumstix |
From: Charles Lesire-C. <cha...@gm...> - 2012-04-06 06:27:30
|
2012/3/26 Andreas Müller <sch...@go...> > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Brad Midgley <bmi...@gm...> wrote: > > It sounds like a good direction, but the biggest issue now is gumstix OE > is > > forked. It won't see these improvements. > The fork is based upon oe-classic which depreciates. All points > mentioned by Richard are found in Yocto/OE-core. For gumstix Steve > Sakoman created a layer [1] and I created a simple bsp-layer for > gumstix overo [2]. > > Andreas > > [1] http://www.sakoman.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=meta-sakoman.git;a=summary > [2] https://gitorious.org/schnitzeltony-oe-meta/meta-gumstix > Hi, Is there a tutorial somewhere to explain the installation of OpenEmbedded using these layers? Charles. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF email is sponsosred by: > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > |
From: j <vwy...@gm...> - 2012-04-06 15:50:29
|
On 04/05/2012 11:27 PM, Charles Lesire-Cabaniols wrote: > > > 2012/3/26 Andreas Müller <sch...@go... > <mailto:sch...@go...>> > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Brad Midgley <bmi...@gm... > <mailto:bmi...@gm...>> wrote: > > It sounds like a good direction, but the biggest issue now is > gumstix OE is > > forked. It won't see these improvements. > The fork is based upon oe-classic which depreciates. All points > mentioned by Richard are found in Yocto/OE-core. For gumstix Steve > Sakoman created a layer [1] and I created a simple bsp-layer for > gumstix overo [2]. > > Andreas > > [1] > http://www.sakoman.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=meta-sakoman.git;a=summary > [2] https://gitorious.org/schnitzeltony-oe-meta/meta-gumstix > > > Hi, > > Is there a tutorial somewhere to explain the installation of > OpenEmbedded using these layers? > > Charles. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF email is sponsosred by: > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > <mailto:gum...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. > Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. > Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 > > > _______________________________________________ > gumstix-users mailing list > gum...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users Poky has some great info and some other links have been shared in this thread and in the archives. Here is a quick start. http://gumstix.8.n6.nabble.com/Abandoning-the-broken-obsolete-Angstrom-OpenEmbedded-platform-in-favor-or-Poky-td4337172.html Just know not everything is in these new chains there are packages that are not available yet. So make sure you do not loose needed packages. But they are mostly tools you would use at least that is what I have found missing so far. HTH |