grapevine-devel — Mailing list for Grapevine developers

[Grapevine-devel] Re: I forgot to mention...

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

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Ryan.

I like Britney Spears's music.  I don't mind that she's a bit ugly.

> You suggest helping to think through the network, thats what I'm all abou=
t.

Oh brilliant!

The best forum would be the developers mailing list which isn't being used =
for=20
much else at the moment.  I've taken the liberty of CC'ing this message ont=
o=20
it.

Please go ahead and ask questions, and put forth ideas.  I would really=20
appreciate it.

My current thinking is pretty much summed up in the Technical Overview=20
document on the website (http://grapevine.sourceforge.net/tech-overview.php=
). =20
There's some stuff missing from there which exists in my head, so you will=
=20
probably need to ask me how I plan to do certain things.

=46or example:  A lot of systems use the idea of reputation strategies to d=
etect=20
cancer nodes.  I think this is the wrong way to go about it - it's too=20
complex to be effective (though it might be useful for enforcing karmic deb=
t=20
=2D - a problem which is as yet unsolved).  My thought is this:  A cancer n=
ode=20
can do nothing but introduce unreliability of one kind or another into the=
=20
network.  So, we should treat cancer nodes as no different to network=20
outages.  I realized some while back that the FEC (forward error correction=
)=20
is absolutely essential to the success of the network.  If you only need an=
y=20
n of m blocks to reconstruct the file, then a cancer node has a rather=20
difficult job stopping you!

The SAHP idea does need work, but in its current form it will do for now.

(The most important thing, of course, is just the general problem of=20
resistance to denial-of-service attacks.)

Another idea is to introduce a randomly-chosen bias in the routing so that =
a=20
certain curvature is introduced into the path.  This way, the locations of=
=20
intermediate nodes can't be predicted as easily.  This is probably overkill.

There are also various technicalities, such as making it so that when a fil=
e=20
is dropped off the network, the file is completely gone, and a user doesn't=
=20
get a failure half-way through a download.

The most difficult problem I would like to solve is to turn the whole thing=
=20
into a mix-net, so that an attacker who has a snooping box sitting on an=20
Internet backbone can't get any idea of the traffic patterns.  This is a=20
long-term proposition, but I believe it is quite achievable.

> I hope to have allready thought some things through that might be useful.

Go ahead and post them publicly or privately.


Steve

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:53, Ryan Felder wrote:
> HOLY HELL! My emails are used to advertize
> Brittney Spears? I feel so used.
>
> Well I'm a conceptual kind of guy.
> You suggest helping to think through the
> network, thats what I'm all about. Again,
> is there a forum in which you would discuss
> and brainstorm this network? I hope to have
> allready thought some things through that
> might be useful.
>
> Ryan
>
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> > > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
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[Grapevine-devel] grapevine-1.0.6 release candidate

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

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All,

I have prepared a 1.0.6 release candidate for Grapevine.

I would appreciate help with making sure it **builds and runs on all sorts =
of=20
platforms** - particularly Unix.  I don't need help with testing the=20
functionality, because I have spent a lot of time on that myself.

It may need work to run on Windows.  There is no rush with that, and I'm=20
prepared to release without it.

Important changes:

* Massive performance boost
* A couple of moderately serious bugs fixed.
* Builds on gcc-2.95.4, gcc-3.0.4 and gcc-3.3.1.
* Some while ago I got it building on RedHat 8.0 out-of-the-box but I have =
no=20
idea if it still works.
* Added an adventure game, as a sort of demo of the capabilities of Raisen:=
 =20
grapevine -nx adventure.main

Please download it here:

http://blacksapphire.com/grapevine/grapevine-1.0.6-rc1.tar.bz2

Many many thanks from Grapevineland.


Steve
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[Grapevine-devel] New grapevine-announce list

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

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All,

I have created a Grapevine-announce list, which I can use to announce thing=
s=20
to interested grapevine testers. To subscribe to Grapevine-announce:

  http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/grapevine-announce


Steve
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Re: [Grapevine-devel] Easing CPU usage on Windows

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

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Ross,

Thanks for that.  It'd be nice to make it automatic.  I'd like to make it s=
o=20
you can make it even lower priority through the web interface - by tell it =
to=20
run only 5% of the time, or whatever (see last message) - so it doesn't was=
te=20
too much electricity.

That'll be completely in Raisen, though.


Steve

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:01, Ross Smith wrote:
> In theory, Windows should not suffer as Grapevine sets the priority of the
> background threads to IDLE_PRIORITY.
>
> In practice though, my Windows (2000) seems to be sort of sluggish.
>
> Therefore, I've added a -R switch to set the priority level for the main
> grapevine thread and all lower threads.
>
> To run grapevine at IDLE_PRIORITY, type:
>
> grapevine -R 0x40
>
> To run grapevine at BELOW_NORMAL_PRIORITY (only available on 200x/XP),
> type:
>
> grapevine -R 0x4000
>
> I should change these to something like -R idle | --idle and -R below |
> --below.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ross
>
>
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> Gra...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/grapevine-devel
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[Grapevine-devel] Too much electricity on modern systems

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

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=2D ----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject:=20
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:45
=46rom: Stephen Blackheath <st...@bl...>
To: gra...@bt...

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Graham,

Can I copy your message to the mailing list?  That will help remind me to
 deal with the issue.

A setting that makes it perform the SAHP calculation X percent of the time
would fix it.


Steve

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:58, Graham Pearson wrote:
> Dear Stephen,
> " I've tried to make it as well-behaved as I can.  Note that it is design=
ed
>
> > to use up all your spare CPU time.  This may annoy some people.  If it
> > does, I'll look at ways of making it less annoying."
>
> There are two sides to this.  Of course it must use cpu time, on the other
> hand it seems to be working the cpu when nothing is actually happening or
> at  least there is and has been no traffic.  The significance of this for
> the user is that if the additional noise of cooling fans is disliked it m=
ay
> be seen as often unneccessary as well, and by this step become annoying.
> On the other hand in order to create a useful net it may be neccessary to
> have the stuff working.  I suppose if there became a sufficient number of
> nodes in relation to the work needed...........
>
> From my own point of view I'm never mad about the whine of hard
> drives/refrigerators/televisions/transformers/capacitors/fans etc., and
> from the general point of view any engineering which obviates vibration
> noise pollution or heat loss both improves the human condition and
> economises on using natural resources.  But I suspect you will already do
> what you can in these areas.
>
> On one occasion this week it couldn't resolve and used local code.
>
> Finished the site.  have wondered if there is any way of controlling the
> amount of hard drive contributed from a node, by the network restricting =
on
> the basis of controlled acceleration from established neighbourhood
> averages, or by the user, or by the designer, or by human controller, or =
by
> seperate neighbourhoods built on different levels of contribution.

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[Grapevine-devel] Easing CPU usage on Windows

[Ross S. <ro...@sm...>]

In theory, Windows should not suffer as Grapevine sets the priority of the 
background threads to IDLE_PRIORITY.

In practice though, my Windows (2000) seems to be sort of sluggish.

Therefore, I've added a -R switch to set the priority level for the main 
grapevine thread and all lower threads.

To run grapevine at IDLE_PRIORITY, type:

grapevine -R 0x40

To run grapevine at BELOW_NORMAL_PRIORITY (only available on 200x/XP), type:

grapevine -R 0x4000

I should change these to something like -R idle | --idle and -R below | --below.

Hope this helps,

Ross


-------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Grapevine-devel] File sharing in Orwell's age

[Anthony J. <aj...@cl...>]

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On Friday 04 July 2003 05:54, Stephen Blackheath wrote:
> Mr TJ,
>
> Someone I know (though not very well because I don't associate with those
> kind of people) recently downloaded a Hollywood film off a peer-to-peer
> network, and got "Bondage Dolls IV" instead, so this illustrates the
> problem rather well.

There's little point in downloading Hollywood films over the Interenet when 
you can rent them for $2. Not a new release, of course. I think Hollywood 
have got their value package right for older movies. If they start releasing 
stuff to video quicker and at a better initial price then we could rent new 
releases for $2 too.

If they go the next step and make them available on the net for AU$2 then 
there's no need whatsoever for people to download unauthorised movies. They 
would make more money than they are doing now too - the video shops wouldn't 
get their cut. The major problem is that the movie companies are too dumb to 
realise the potential.

Having said all of that, it is legal to download and posess a copy of 
"Bondage Dolls IV" in New South Wales (even a movie which has been refused 
classification a.k.a. banned for personal use) but you can't go to the shop 
and rent a copy. You can buy a copy (and exchange it) in most suburbs but 
it's illegal.

In Western Australia you can posess X rated but not RC rated material but you 
can't buy it except via mail order.

> iRATE solves the file authenticity problem rather neatly, so it's a perfect
> first app.  Thanks for all your work of figuring out how to integrate it
> into Grapevine.

iRATE won't require major modification to work with Grapevine. I just need to 
write a grapevine equivalent of irate.download.DownloadThread which uses 
Grapevine instead of an iRATE server.

Anthony
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[Grapevine-devel] Govt asks NZ ISPs to snoop

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

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http://www.pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/pcw.nsf/UNID/C31C0D8269C307AACC256D4E00072=
61A?OpenDocument

Govt asks NZ ISPs to snoop
=20
Geoff Palmer
 Monday, 30 June, 2003

 There are 13 million terrorists in America. At least that=E2=80=99s the nu=
mber of=20
people on the FBI=E2=80=99s terrorist suspect =E2=80=9Cwatch list=E2=80=9D:=
 almost 5% of the US=20
population. Does anyone believe this figure could be remotely accurate? Of=
=20
course not. But, as security analyst Bruce Schneier points out, while it=E2=
=80=99s=20
very easy to put someone on the list, removing them =E2=80=9Cprobably takes=
=20
considerable courage, as someone is going to have to take the fall when =E2=
=80=98the=20
warnings were ignored=E2=80=99=E2=80=9D.=20
=20
 It=E2=80=99s worth keeping that watch list in mind when you consider our o=
wn=20
Telecommunications (Interception Capability) Bill is due to come before=20
parliament later this year. A companion to the Crimes Amendment Bill (No 6)=
,=20
the TIC demands all telecommunications network operators make their systems=
=20
=E2=80=9Cintercept capable=E2=80=9D. That means they must have all the nece=
ssary hardware and=20
software in place so that if someone comes along with a warrant to spy on J=
oe=20
User, they can simply flip a switch and begin tapping his phone and interne=
t=20
activity.
=20
 But this is not a bill aimed at giving the police more powers to fight=20
cyber-crime. Its beneficiaries will be the Security Intelligence Service an=
d=20
the Government Communications Security Bureau: two secretive agencies that=
=20
have no public accountability whatsoever.
=20
 Tapping a telephone is a one-to-one process, but tapping an internet=20
connection is far less direct. In fact, it=E2=80=99s more akin to driftnet =
fishing.=20
Most people connect by dialling an internet service provider, which then=20
assigns them an address from a pool of hundreds or even thousands of=20
possibilities =E2=80=93 so to pick out Joe User=E2=80=99s traffic, the spoo=
ks must first=20
trawl the pool...
=20
 What happens to all this ancillary data? How long will it be kept? Who wil=
l=20
have access to it? Questions like these have not yet been answered here and=
=20
indeed they continue to dog the FBI=E2=80=99s own internet spying system in=
troduced=20
early last year. But the FBI did have one crack at putting civil=20
libertarians=E2=80=99 worries to rest. Realising the original name for the =
system =E2=80=93=20
Carnivore =E2=80=93 sounded a bit threatening, they re-christened it DCS100=
0.
=20
 Data intercepts are far more insidious than telephone intercepts because t=
hey=20
can be collected automatically and on a vast scale. They can then be scanne=
d=20
by specialised programs that generate completely spurious conclusions.=20
Consider spam for a moment. If you look at a typical internet user=E2=80=99=
s inbox,=20
you=E2=80=99d probably surmise they=E2=80=99re addicted to sex sites and pe=
nis enlargement=20
pills. But is that a reasonable assessment? What about web traffic? A singl=
e=20
link to one site may spawn half a dozen other connections behind the scenes=
:=20
to advertising sites, traffic trackers and who knows what else. The user ha=
s=20
no control over those connections but they=E2=80=99ll go on the logs noneth=
eless. And=20
let=E2=80=99s not even get into viruses and Trojan horses that may be makin=
g=20
surreptitious connections.
=20
 The other problem with electronic evidence is that it=E2=80=99s so malleab=
le. The=20
difficulties you=E2=80=99d face in forging a letter or a phone conversation=
 evaporate=20
when it=E2=80=99s email. Want to fool your friends into thinking they=E2=80=
=99re on the next=20
Honours list? Just change your email address under=20
Tools=E2=80=A2Accounts=E2=80=A2Mail=E2=80=A2Properties to helen.clark@parli=
ament.govt.nz and send=20
them a congratulatory message. Most users =E2=80=93 including a great many =
in the=20
police and intelligence communities =E2=80=93 would be hard-pressed to disc=
ern the=20
real source of the communication. And while the name Helen Clark might not=
=20
set off any alarm bells in the intelligence community, what about=20
os...@al...?
=20
 The TIC bill takes on a particularly sinister aspect when you add it to th=
e=20
implications of a bill passed last October, an act that effectively removed=
=20
the individual=E2=80=99s right =E2=80=9Cto examine, or have examined, the w=
itnesses against=20
him=E2=80=9D. That latter was enshrined in the International Covenant on Ci=
vil and=20
Political Rights, ratified by New Zealand in 1978. But the Terrorism=20
Suppression Act of 2002 says a person can now be designated a terrorist=20
purely on the basis of classified information, and that information never h=
as=20
to be revealed.
=20
 Earlier this year, Green MP Keith Locke told parliament of a Wellington=20
woman=E2=80=99s submission to the Law and Order Committee. She=E2=80=99d em=
ailed a friend in=20
the US, she said, and mentioned in passing that she=E2=80=99d missed the US=
=20
presidential elections on TV because she=E2=80=99d been at a funeral. Her A=
merican=20
friend received a visit from the FBI, because the message contained the wor=
ds=20
=E2=80=9Cpresident=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Celections=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cfuner=
al=E2=80=9D. While it might sound laughable, it=E2=80=99s=20
less amusing to consider that the American friend is now almost certainly o=
ne=20
of the 13 million on the FBI=E2=80=99s watch list.
 geo...@id...
=20
 Footnote: A recent US law change exempted the FBI from any statutory duty =
to=20
keep the data in its files accurate.=20
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Re: [Grapevine-devel] File sharing in Orwell's age

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

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Hash: SHA1

Mr TJ,

Someone I know (though not very well because I don't associate with those k=
ind=20
of people) recently downloaded a Hollywood film off a peer-to-peer network,=
=20
and got "Bondage Dolls IV" instead, so this illustrates the problem rather=
=20
well.

iRATE solves the file authenticity problem rather neatly, so it's a perfect=
=20
first app.  Thanks for all your work of figuring out how to integrate it in=
to=20
Grapevine.

I'll work away on my part of it!


Steve

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:45, Anthony Jones wrote:
> On Saturday 28 June 2003 02:39, David Scott Williams wrote:
> > I had thought this might be the case, when you first announced iRATE....
> > The RIAA has hired a company to attack file-sharing networks... and best
> > be prepared early...
>
> iRATE already works in a non file sharing mode and I will personally
> continue to use it like that. At the moment it downloads legal MP3s from
> legal sites.
>
> I will develop a version of iRATE which works with Grapevine so that anyo=
ne
> can add a track to the system without having to host it themselves. This
> means that anyone who wants to insert a track can do so. iRATE uses
> collaborative filtering so if a track is faulty for any reason it will get
> bad ratings. Another thing is that if you give a track a high rating it
> will only recommend it to others with compatible music tastes.
>
> The way it works at the moment is user based correlation. This is
> particularly good for grapevine's purposes. I'll just give you a brief
> outline of how it could work.
>
> Grapevine will need to provide:
> 1. A method for storing files based on a hash of their contents. These
> obviously can't be updated.
> 2. A method for storing data against a public key which can be updated.
>
> iRATE will do this:
> Each user will have a trackdatabase which looks like this:
> <TrackDatabase>
>   <Track author=3D"WW III" name=3D"A New War" rating=3D"10"
> url=3D"grapevine://chk/4d#TFk184ks6^j3"/>
>   <!-- more tracks of the same format -->
>
>   <Friend url=3D"grapevine://rsa/H3$kh#23k123jD" correlation=3D"0.32121"/>
>   <!-- more friends listed here -->
> </TrackDatabase>
>
> To join iRATE you need a seed which is the URL of another user's
> trackdatabase. Perhaps Grapevine can provide some kind of listing service
> which makes this easier.
>
> Your seed node starts off being your best friend (they're the only person
> you know, of course). All of your best friend's friends now become your
> friends too. You use all your friends ratings to choose some random track=
s.
> Once you have downloaded and rated a few tracks it can correlate you
> against all your friends and you can choose a best friend and perhaps make
> more friends.
>
> Obviously it's hard to keep up a lot of social contact so there's a limit
> to the number of friends you want to maintain.
>
> Anthony
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Re: [Grapevine-devel] File sharing in Orwell's age

[Anthony J. <aj...@cl...>]

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Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 28 June 2003 02:39, David Scott Williams wrote:
> I had thought this might be the case, when you first announced iRATE....
> The RIAA has hired a company to attack file-sharing networks... and best
> be prepared early...

iRATE already works in a non file sharing mode and I will personally continue 
to use it like that. At the moment it downloads legal MP3s from legal sites.

I will develop a version of iRATE which works with Grapevine so that anyone 
can add a track to the system without having to host it themselves. This 
means that anyone who wants to insert a track can do so. iRATE uses 
collaborative filtering so if a track is faulty for any reason it will get 
bad ratings. Another thing is that if you give a track a high rating it will 
only recommend it to others with compatible music tastes.

The way it works at the moment is user based correlation. This is 
particularly good for grapevine's purposes. I'll just give you a brief 
outline of how it could work.

Grapevine will need to provide:
1. A method for storing files based on a hash of their contents. These 
obviously can't be updated.
2. A method for storing data against a public key which can be updated.

iRATE will do this:
Each user will have a trackdatabase which looks like this:
<TrackDatabase>
  <Track author="WW III" name="A New War" rating="10"
url="grapevine://chk/4d#TFk184ks6^j3"/>
  <!-- more tracks of the same format -->

  <Friend url="grapevine://rsa/H3$kh#23k123jD" correlation="0.32121"/>
  <!-- more friends listed here -->
</TrackDatabase>

To join iRATE you need a seed which is the URL of another user's 
trackdatabase. Perhaps Grapevine can provide some kind of listing service 
which makes this easier.

Your seed node starts off being your best friend (they're the only person you 
know, of course). All of your best friend's friends now become your friends 
too. You use all your friends ratings to choose some random tracks. Once you 
have downloaded and rated a few tracks it can correlate you against all your 
friends and you can choose a best friend and perhaps make more friends.

Obviously it's hard to keep up a lot of social contact so there's a limit to 
the number of friends you want to maintain.

Anthony
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[Grapevine-devel] Undelivered mail: Re: Movie

[DrWeb-DAEMON <DrW...@ur...>]

=F5=D7=C1=D6=C1=C5=CD=D9=CA =EF=D4=D0=D2=C1=D7=C9=D4=C5=CC=D8 grapevine-d=
ev...@li...,

=F3=CF=CF=C2=DD=C5=CE=C9=C5, =CF=D4=D0=D2=C1=D7=CC=C5=CE=CE=CF=C5 =F7=C1=CD=
=C9 =D0=CF =C1=C4=D2=C5=D3=D5(=C1=CD) ad...@e1...
=C9=CE=C6=C9=C3=C9=D2=CF=D7=C1=CE=CF =C9 =CE=C5 =C2=D9=CC=CF =C4=CF=D3=D4=
=C1=D7=CC=C5=CE=CF.

--- Dr.Web report ---
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
infected with Win32.HLLM.Reteras
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
plain] - Ok
your_details.zip infected with Win32.HLLM.Reteras
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
known virus is found : 1

--- Dr.Web report ---

---
   =F0=CF=DE=D4=CF=D7=D9=CA =D3=C5=D2=D7=C5=D2 =F5=D2=C1=CC =F2=C5=CC=CB=CF=
=CD

Re: [Grapevine-devel] File sharing in Orwell's age

[David S. W. <xi...@pr...>]

I had thought this might be the case, when you first announced iRATE.... 
The RIAA has hired a company to attack file-sharing networks... and best 
be prepared early...



Anthony Jones wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On Friday 27 June 2003 07:48, Stephen Blackheath wrote:
>
>>>1- file-quality
>>>The RIAA and MPAA have hired a firm to crack down on piracy by flooding
>>>file-s** networks with shitty quality files...  Perhaps an .mp3 with a
>>>dat file value of "3:22 mins" should have an acceptable range of
>>>file-sizes when listed at "450" bitrate?  How do you know when you've
>>>been deluged in shit on an anonymous network? How do you prevent it?
>>>
>>This is an important issue, and I don't have all the answers.
>>
>>The best method is some kind of verification by those downloading the file
>>that it is legit.  Another good way is for people to have their own
>>'vine-sites', e.g. "Bob's Britney Spears Singles".  People could also go
>>about signing files, and others could keep a list of signers that are
>>trusted.
>>
>
>I've got some ideas about producing a Grapevine port of iRATE 
>(http://irate.sourceforge.net/) which is a collaborative filtering system. 
>Hopefully it'll make a good first application for Grapevine because it 
>doesn't require a search mechanism.
>
>TJ
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>
>
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>

-- 
~Dave 
xi...@pr...

	                 Brainchild 
	            (and current obsession)
	        http://dustyscript.sourceforge.net/ 
	  >Dustyscript: Programming for Children<

	     ||*Other projects that I head up*||
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/cxtable 
	           >The xTable Project<<
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/moonroof  
	       >Moonroof, a Java desktop<

||**Projects that I am dedicated to (but not in charge of)*||
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/grapevine
 		>Grapevine p2p network<
		   "The Java Port"
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/symbiosis
		        >Symbiosis<

weblog: http://wildegrey.blogspot.com/

"When I think back on all the crap I learned in High School...
it's a wonder I can think at all..."
		-Paul Simon, "Kodachrome"

"...I took the road less travelled by, and that has made all the difference.."
		-Robert Frost

"Man is the only animal that blushes... or needs to"
		-Mark Twain

Re: [Grapevine-devel] File sharing in Orwell's age

[Anthony J. <aj...@cl...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Friday 27 June 2003 07:48, Stephen Blackheath wrote:
> > 1- file-quality
> > The RIAA and MPAA have hired a firm to crack down on piracy by flooding
> > file-s** networks with shitty quality files...  Perhaps an .mp3 with a
> > dat file value of "3:22 mins" should have an acceptable range of
> > file-sizes when listed at "450" bitrate?  How do you know when you've
> > been deluged in shit on an anonymous network? How do you prevent it?
>
> This is an important issue, and I don't have all the answers.
>
> The best method is some kind of verification by those downloading the file
> that it is legit.  Another good way is for people to have their own
> 'vine-sites', e.g. "Bob's Britney Spears Singles".  People could also go
> about signing files, and others could keep a list of signers that are
> trusted.

I've got some ideas about producing a Grapevine port of iRATE 
(http://irate.sourceforge.net/) which is a collaborative filtering system. 
Hopefully it'll make a good first application for Grapevine because it 
doesn't require a search mechanism.

TJ
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Re: [Grapevine-devel] File sharing in Orwell's age

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dave,

On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:48, David Scott Williams wrote:
> OK...maybe that's an oversell...but.. while I have been unable to
> contribute code directly (except that short-term BerkDB fix!!--woo,
> Dave!..and it lasted for 2 hours, too!) ... I have been keeping abrest
> (both relating to USA and the world) on some issues involving file-s**
> networks (file-sharing, file-storage, etc..)

Thanks - I don't have much time to do that, so I appreciate the help.  Sorr=
y=20
it's taken me three weeks to respond to this email.

Things move slowly in the world of Grapevine until such time as a truck ful=
l=20
of money and food crashes into my house.

> 1- file-quality
> The RIAA and MPAA have hired a firm to crack down on piracy by flooding
> file-s** networks with shitty quality files...  Perhaps an .mp3 with a
> dat file value of "3:22 mins" should have an acceptable range of
> file-sizes when listed at "450" bitrate?  How do you know when you've
> been deluged in shit on an anonymous network? How do you prevent it?

This is an important issue, and I don't have all the answers.

The best method is some kind of verification by those downloading the file=
=20
that it is legit.  Another good way is for people to have their own=20
'vine-sites', e.g. "Bob's Britney Spears Singles".  People could also go=20
about signing files, and others could keep a list of signers that are=20
trusted.

Another strategy is to make it cost CPU time to upload a file.  That way,=20
people are physically limited in the amount they can upload.  Of course the=
se=20
people can always just buy lots of computers and waste lots of electricity.

> 2- subscriber list discovery
> Umm..I think we have this one covered

This is our strength, of course, according to the theory!

The most difficult thing would be to conceal the use of the grapevine=20
altogether, in localities where grapevine itself is banned.  The solution i=
s=20
steganography.  Perhaps we could make grapevine traffic appear to be spam=20
email.  (<-- A half-serious joke.)

> 3- Internet radio regulation
> In the US, Internet-only radio stations have to pay a per-connection
> time-rated fee...  I dream of a grapevine application that uses the
> grapevine network to disemminate the radio to multiple places, with a
> single pipe at the radio end (they pay for one user!)
>
> The fees put most internet radio stations under.

The grapevine, of course, will allow "pirate radio" to flourish - thus=20
avoiding the fees altogether.  My purpose is not to encourage illegal=20
activity, but to shift the balance of power.  In other words, to foster a=20
more respectful attitude among the powers-that-be.

> 4- DOS attacks, DDOS attacks
> I think we've got this

This will be an ongoing issue, but I believe the problems are solvable.  Th=
e=20
basic approach is good.  Remember that we only have to be better than the=20
Internet.

> 5- Firewall ... proxy ....
> Does getting through this create issues for #2?

I have a strategy for this that I think will work.  I've described it in br=
ief=20
in the 'Technical Overview' on the website.

It shouldn't create any issues for subscriber discovery.


Steve
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[Grapevine-devel] What to do?

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dave,

> Stephen..I've asked this before...what tasks can I do in grapevine to
> assist you?

Oh bloody hell.  You have to ask difficult questions.

Well, here's where I'm up to...

The daemon is currently getting bogged down with requests.  When I run 10=20
nodes on one machine, it gums up and gets stuck.  I need to make it=20
judiciously drop requests when it gets overloaded.  The trouble is that the=
=20
whole thing works like a queue, where it pulls things off and plods along=20
processing them one by one.  If it gets behind, it slows down to the point=
=20
where what it is doing is useless.  I am going to need some mechanism in th=
e=20
C++ to detect how much outstanding load there is.  If we can measure this i=
n=20
either requests or bytes, then we can drop requests when it gets too much. =
=20
This will make it work much better.

After a long period of getting the C++ code sorted out, I'm now at a stage=
=20
where all the rest of the work now is developing new raisen code (apart fro=
m=20
the above), so if you really want to help me, you'll have to learn raisen!

The next thing is the discovery of neighbours needs to be finished.  Until=
=20
this works, the network will be misshapen and not function correctly.

Once that's done, we need to thoroughly test the routing.  We can do this=20
using the route-tracing and network-mapping functionality that I've already=
=20
developed.

Once the routing works, then the real fun begins.  It will be very easy to=
=20
make it store small files.

We'll then need to deal with various load-balancing issues, caching, and=20
splitting of files.

After that, it will essentially work.


Steve

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:23, you wrote:
> It is closer to the processor, but still a JavaConnector thing...
> Currently you can get and put...but not remove...and not get a group of
> keys | values...but these things will be there...
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[Grapevine-devel] Re: [Grapevine-cvs-commits] cvs: website / index.php

[Anthony J. <aj...@cl...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Friday 06 June 2003 11:11, blackh wrote:
> +        "my friends told me".  The grapevine is your gossip network.
>  There's a song by Smokey Robinson (and famously recorded by Marvin
> Gaye) of this name.<br /> <br />

Bzzztttt. Still wrong. Strong and Whitfield actually wrote the song.

http://www.songwritershalloffame.org/nominees/

 Barrett Strong & Norman Whitfield

"I Can't Get Next To You" "I Heard It Through The Grapevine" "Ain't Too Proud 
To Beg" "I Know I'm Losing You" "Papa Was A Rolling Stone"

Together, Strong & Whitfield comprised one of the most successful and 
memorable of Motown's many songwriting teams. They brought to the label 
skills not only as songwriters but also as performers and producers. Strong, 
a native of Detroit, joined the label in its infancy, and scored a classic 
record with "Money (That's What I Want)." Whitfield joined the label in 1973, 
initially as a writer alone, and soon began to create singles for the 
Marvelettes ("Too Many Fish in the Sea") and Temptations ("Ain't Too Proud To 
Beg," "Beauty's Only Skin Deep" and [I Know ] I'm Losing You").

In 1968, Strong and Whitfield teamed together and began to create a veritable 
barrage of hits for the Temptations that combined a unique production style 
with clever lyrics and unbeatable music. They include "I Wish It Would Rain," 
"Cloud Nine," "I Can't Get Next To You," and "Ball of Confusion." The duo 
also created "War" for Edwin Starr and "Smiling Faces Sometimes" for the 
Undisputed Truth.

After leaving Motown, Whitfield scored a number of hits with the group Rose 
Royce and then wrote and produced the memorable wall-to-wall soundtrack for 
the comic classic "Car Wash." Strong returned to his singing career and waxed 
sides for Epic and Capitol.
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[Grapevine-devel] File sharing in Orwell's age

[David S. W. <xi...@pr...>]

OK...maybe that's an oversell...but.. while I have been unable to 
contribute code directly (except that short-term BerkDB fix!!--woo, 
Dave!..and it lasted for 2 hours, too!) ... I have been keeping abrest 
(both relating to USA and the world) on some issues involving file-s** 
networks (file-sharing, file-storage, etc..)

1- file-quality
The RIAA and MPAA have hired a firm to crack down on piracy by flooding 
file-s** networks with shitty quality files...  Perhaps an .mp3 with a 
dat file value of "3:22 mins" should have an acceptable range of 
file-sizes when listed at "450" bitrate?  How do you know when you've 
been deluged in shit on an anonymous network? How do you prevent it?

2- subscriber list discovery
Umm..I think we have this one covered

3- Internet radio regulation
In the US, Internet-only radio stations have to pay a per-connection 
time-rated fee...  I dream of a grapevine application that uses the 
grapevine network to disemminate the radio to multiple places, with a 
single pipe at the radio end (they pay for one user!)

I hope this text drawing comes through

                                                                     / 
---------------------- 1
RADIO STATION --------->LISTENER --|
                                         (one gpv node)   
 |------------------------ ..      WORLD AT LARGE
                                                                     |
                                                                      
\------------------------ N

The fees put most internet radio stations under.

4- DOS attacks, DDOS attacks
I think we've got this

5- Firewall ... proxy ....
Does getting through this create issues for #2?

~Dave 
xi...@pr...

	                 Brainchild 
	            (and current obsession)
	        http://dustyscript.sourceforge.net/ 
	  >Dustyscript: Programming for Children<

	     ||*Other projects that I head up*||
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/cxtable 
	           >The xTable Project<<
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/moonroof  
	       >Moonroof, a Java desktop<

||**Projects that I am dedicated to (but not in charge of)*||
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/grapevine
 		>Grapevine p2p network<
		   "The Java Port"
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/symbiosis
		        >Symbiosis<

weblog: http://wildegrey.blogspot.com/

"When I think back on all the crap I learned in High School...
it's a wonder I can think at all..."
		-Paul Simon, "Kodachrome"

"...I took the road less travelled by, and that has made all the difference.."
		-Robert Frost

"Man is the only animal that blushes... or needs to"
		-Mark Twain

Re: [Grapevine-devel] Interesting websites relating to other projects

[Anthony J. <aj...@cl...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tuesday 27 May 2003 23:28, David Scott Williams wrote:
> iRATE?

My collaborative filtering music program:

http://irate.sourceforge.net/

> I'll tell you..with the latest anti-freedom shit coming out of the
> USA..I am definitely iRATE!

I'm iRATE too but that because the radio sux.

TJ
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=m1Us
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Re: [Grapevine-devel] Interesting websites relating to other projects

[David S. W. <wi...@ca...>]

iRATE?

I'll tell you..with the latest anti-freedom shit coming out of the 
USA..I am definitely iRATE!


Stephen Blackheath wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Tony,
> 
> Good on ya.  Your iRate is a great project, but there still aren't enough 
> users to stop me from getting horrible music.
> 
> On Grapevine I've been working on performance:  I've added the ability to do 
> profiling of rule execution, which turns out to be a really easy way to spot 
> performance problems.  One is the calculation of vector distance.  So, I'm 
> going to make that native (which I can do without making old versions of code 
> not work).
> 
> I went to the movies recently, and there was an ad for Microsoft which said 
> something like
> 
>   "We want you to share information freely without restriction."
> 
> What a great idea!
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> On Mon, 26 May 2003 11:48, Anthony Jones wrote:
> 
>>On Thursday 22 May 2003 11:46, Stephen Blackheath wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.infoanarchy.org/
>>>
>>>Website of software reviews / news stories, with a similar view of
>>>informationt to us.
>>
>>I posted on this website a bit about iRATE and it appears that I've picked
>>up a few users, including a guy who is now trying to port iRATE to gcj so
>>we can compile a native executable.
>>
>>Anthony
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
> 
> iD8DBQE+0Vj/ODO5z8eA7sQRAt+MAJ0YKy8p0qEcrodT5OmyuabO2JUNiwCfaZvu
> 3SV0lN1YjgiXaANRms4KFeo=
> =Jftx
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: ObjectStore.
> If flattening out C++ or Java code to make your application fit in a
> relational database is painful, don't do it! Check out ObjectStore.
> Now part of Progress Software. http://www.objectstore.net/sourceforge
> _______________________________________________
> Grapevine-devel mailing list
> Gra...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/grapevine-devel
> 
> 


-- 

David Scott Williams
Brand Management
Linux Technology Group
Computer Associates
One Computer Associates Plaza
Islandia, New York 11749

ph. 631-342-3431
ph. 800-243-9462 ext 73431
wi...@ca...

Re: [Grapevine-devel] Interesting websites relating to other projects

[Anthony J. <aj...@cl...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Monday 26 May 2003 07:59, Stephen Blackheath wrote:
> Tony,
>
> Good on ya.  Your iRate is a great project, but there still aren't enough
> users to stop me from getting horrible music.
>
> On Grapevine I've been working on performance:  I've added the ability to
> do profiling of rule execution, which turns out to be a really easy way to
> spot performance problems.  One is the calculation of vector distance.  So,
> I'm going to make that native (which I can do without making old versions
> of code not work).
>
> I went to the movies recently, and there was an ad for Microsoft which said
> something like
>
>   "We want you to share information freely without restriction."
>
> What a great idea!

I thought I was safe from Microsoft adverts. I don't watch TV, I don't read 
the newspaper, I don't even read mainstream news on the web. They've found my 
weakess and are going to force their corporate promotion down my throat at 
the movie theatre. I guess I'll have to give that up next.

TJ
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Re: [Grapevine-devel] Interesting websites relating to other projects

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Tony,

Good on ya.  Your iRate is a great project, but there still aren't enough=20
users to stop me from getting horrible music.

On Grapevine I've been working on performance:  I've added the ability to d=
o=20
profiling of rule execution, which turns out to be a really easy way to spo=
t=20
performance problems.  One is the calculation of vector distance.  So, I'm=
=20
going to make that native (which I can do without making old versions of co=
de=20
not work).

I went to the movies recently, and there was an ad for Microsoft which said=
=20
something like

  "We want you to share information freely without restriction."

What a great idea!


Steve

On Mon, 26 May 2003 11:48, Anthony Jones wrote:
> On Thursday 22 May 2003 11:46, Stephen Blackheath wrote:
> > http://www.infoanarchy.org/
> >
> > Website of software reviews / news stories, with a similar view of
> > informationt to us.
>
> I posted on this website a bit about iRATE and it appears that I've picked
> up a few users, including a guy who is now trying to port iRATE to gcj so
> we can compile a native executable.
>
> Anthony
=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: [Grapevine-devel] Interesting websites relating to other projects

[Anthony J. <aj...@cl...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 22 May 2003 11:46, Stephen Blackheath wrote:
> http://www.infoanarchy.org/
>
> Website of software reviews / news stories, with a similar view of
> informationt to us.

I posted on this website a bit about iRATE and it appears that I've picked up 
a few users, including a guy who is now trying to port iRATE to gcj so we can 
compile a native executable.

Anthony
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[Grapevine-devel] Interesting websites relating to other projects

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

All,

A project where they use spoofed source packets as a way to do anonymous fi=
le=20
sharing.

http://udpp2p.sourceforge.net/

This is a damn good idea, but some comments:

* Spoofed-source packets are generally unwelcome on the Internet, though th=
ey=20
are generally NOT filtered out.

* Not resistant to traffic analysis at the Internet backbone level.

=2D ---

A broadcast/channel-based content distribution system...

http://konspire.sourceforge.net/

Like radio?

=2D ---

Myster

http://www.mysternetworks.com/

Supposed to be an efficient file-sharing network.  Not anonymyzing.

=2D ---

http://www.infoanarchy.org/

Website of software reviews / news stories, with a similar view of=20
informationt to us.


Steve
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[Grapevine-devel] Grapevine on Russian Linux website

[Stephen B. <st...@bl...>]

=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about=20
(Oscar Wilde)...

http://www.linux.org.ru/view-message.jsp?msgid=3D313540&scroll=3Dsection&ba=
ck=3Dindex.jsp
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[Grapevine-devel] Cripes - this gives me the creeps.

[Anthony J. <aj...@cl...>]

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Introduction:

Several months ago, GOBBLES Security was recruited by the RIAA (riaa.org)
to invent, create, and finally deploy the future of antipiracy tools. We
focused on creating virii/worm hybrids to infect and spread over p2p nets.
Until we became RIAA contracters, the best they could do was to passively
monitor traffic. Our contributions to the RIAA have given them the power
to actively control the majority of hosts using these networks.

http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/306476

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