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Re: [Gramps-devel] Re : Census entry and Certificates in the Ecosystem definition
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From: Nick H. <nic...@ho...> - 2010-01-04 19:12:27
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Jerome, Thanks, this is interesting. It looks like I need to include an option to be able to enter the census date in the editor. I could keep the option to define a default. Then if a series of censuses were in the same book and had the same layout, then they could share the same source. There would still be a problem if censuses with the same source had a different layout. Defining a form separately from a census in the xml file could still be of a benefit if there are many sources which share the same layout. Although this doesn't cause a problem at the moment it requires duplicating entries in the xml. I'll add this to my to-do list. Regards, Nick. jerome wrote: > Nick, > > > I have read more informations about french censuses. People have often access to books or forms (written by censors) on City Archives. And we can see publications (offical date set) on County Archives [1]. Informations are noted for this date. Sometimes a day-month-year is set, sometimes this could be a period resume. > Sources are multiples and census events not always properly "time logged" ! > > Hand-(re)written source like a book/form for a period or a transcription for a date set by the State/Country ? > Should be common between UK, Canada, USA, IT, BE and FR. > All countries with provinces. > > I also read that there is around 750 censuses on my search county [2] ... In this case, I should rather allow a custom key (maybe just FR) without date and only standards fields/headings/columns [1] ! > > > [1] Individual card of a person - Census 1836 > http://www.census1836.com/screenShotsUK.htm > [2] http://archives.cg67.fr/sources/pdf/2009_07_28_denombr_avant%20revo.pdf > > > Regards, > Jérôme > > --- En date de : Sam 2.1.10, Nick Hall <nic...@ho...> a écrit : > > >> De: Nick Hall <nic...@ho...> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] Re : Census entry and Certificates in the Ecosystem definition >> À: rom...@ya... >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <gra...@li...> >> Date: Samedi 2 Janvier 2010, 22h51 >> Jerome, >> >> Thanks for the feedback. >> >> Jérôme wrote: >> >>> Nick, >>> >>> >>> First, the first state/country census in modern, >>> >> contemporary France takes place on 1790-1793 [1][2], then >> often on a period of 5 years [3]. But some previous >> countings also exist before XVII century [4] . >> >>> There is no index or real page number (except on >>> >> numerical sources [5]) and often one book/box per >> district/arrondissement. >> >>> So, source reference (page) will be rather an address >>> >> for a period ... >> >> I left this for the user to complete as appropriate. >> English census data can be referenced by a reference code, >> piece, folio and page. I thought about making this >> more complex by creating multiple fields in the editor, but >> I would have to concatenate them to store them in the >> "Volume/Page" field for the SourceRef object. It is >> acceptable to leave this empty if it is mot applicable. >> >> At the moment, the "Date" field of the SourceRef object is >> populated with the census date. I am thinking of >> adding a field to the editor for this, and defaulting it to >> the census date. I believe that this may be useful for >> Canadian census data where the date of completion of the >> census form may not be the same as the census date. >> >> >>> Also, place will be the city [6] ! >>> I suppose parishes also made some censuses but they >>> >> are not the most accessibles and just used before 1790. >> >> Some English data doesn't specify an exact address. A >> Gramps place object can be created with the necessary >> detail. >> >> >>> Censuses used on my genealogical search were civil >>> >> documents on modern, contemporary period (1790-> today) >> : >> >>> Books for periods. >>> >>> ex: 1835-1850 [7] means there was 3 census in France >>> >> for >> >>> this period (1836-1841-1846). I suppose one book was >>> >> used for multiple >> >>> censuses and that's why there is some corrections on >>> >> each book page. >> >> I can see why this would be a problem with my design. >> It is natural to define one source for a book which may >> contain 3 censuses. I use a source attached to a >> census event to indicate which census the event refers to. >> >> My assumption (that may be wrong) was that a source type >> would define the data to be captured in Event attributes and >> EventRef attributes. It will also define the fields >> that are required for a Source Reference - at the moment we >> have a single text field for "Volume/Page". >> >> The workaround is to define a separate source for each >> census year. >> >> The alternative would be to store the link to the census >> definition in an event sub-type field on the census >> object. So, for example, an event could have a type of >> "census", a sub-type of "French 1841 census" and an attached >> source of "French censuses 1835-1850". At the moment I >> could do this with a special attribute, but I don't really >> like that approach. We could re-consider this in the >> future, especially if event sub-types are added to Gramps. >> >> >>>> Let me know if you have any problems. >>>> >>> I have three problems : >>> >>> * [census.xml design] >>> Form is often the same for french civil census on >>> >> modern, contemporary period (1790-> today). There is no >> religious >> >>> references or place sub-divisions. One book/form = >>> >> city + district. >> >>> It is not a publication with an index scheme and page >>> >> numbers. >> >>> If source title is the book name/reference, then >>> >> address will be the page reference and the city will be the >> place object... >> >> The xml allows you to define "columns" and >> "headings". The headings allow you to specify data >> fields that will be stored as attributes on the census Event >> object. The data entry fields will be build >> dynamically and it will be perfectly valid to not define any >> headings for a census if they are not applicable. The >> columns allow you to specify data fields that will be stored >> as attributes on the census EventRef objects for each person >> on the census. I assume that for a census to have >> genealogical value there will be data to be recorded against >> individuals on the census. >> >> >>> I could add into census.xml around 23 censuses from >>> >> 1790 to 1906. >> >>> Maybe sub-division on place will be the address set on >>> >> source reference because it was the common classification in >> France ! >> >> I'm not sure that I fully understand you here. Are >> you saying that you need to enter many census definitions >> that share the same headings and columns? If this is >> the case then it could be useful to put the current census >> definitions into <form> tags, and for a census >> definition to reference a form. >> >> >>> * [Gramps] cannot set two keys with the same name on >>> >> Source data map. >> >>> That's logical : one source uses only one time the key >>> >> name on data map. >> >>> So I have a minor date/period issue because I cannot >>> >> set multiple data keys with the same name : >> >>> _('Census'). >>> >> I think that I covered this earlier. >> >> >>> * [Census gramplet and report] do not display the >>> >> source list ! >> >>> Entries on source list are presents, just not >>> >> displayed :( >> >>> >> I see that you have solved this. >> >> >>> I like the idea to store informations into attributes >>> >> and a report for sorting/managing them ! I am a little bit >> disturbed by the datamap entry on source object. But it >> seems to work with my data. Thank you ! >> >>> >> I don't like the way I used the datamap entry on source >> object either. I needed a way of attaching a census >> definition to a source. Initially I did this by >> matching the text on the source titles - this was even >> worse. >> >> A better way would be to create a graphical tool to define >> these links and store them in a configuration file. >> Even better would be to add a source type to Gramps and use >> that. I don't know if it has been decided how plugins >> should write to configuration files yet. I also just >> haven't got around to thinking about this yet, I have added >> it to the future enhancements section on the wiki entry >> though. >> >> http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Census_Addons#Future_Enhancements >> >> It is only by learning from people who actually try this >> out that I can improve the addons. So thanks for your >> help. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Nick. >> >> >> >>> Happy new year to all. :) >>> >>> Jérôme R. >>> >>> >>> [1] http://www.penombre.org/inedits/03.htm >>> [2] http://cassini.ehess.fr/cassini/fr/html/5_donnees.htm >>> [3] http://cassini.ehess.fr/cassini/fr/html/8d_glossaire.htm#Recensement >>> [4] http://archives.cg67.fr/scripts/02methodes/02b_methodes_conseils_k.asp >>> [5] http://www.archives.rennes.fr/fonds/listecote.php?page=1&total=98&cotefond4=mod&serie=F&sousserie=1F >>> >>> [6] http://cassini.ehess.fr/cassini/fr/html/8d_glossaire.htm#Commune >>> [7] http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Recording_French_Census_data >>> >>> >>> Nick Hall a écrit : >>> >>>> Jerome, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the links. I managed to get a >>>> >> French translation working on my machine for testing. >> >>>> The Census addons now use a file called census.xml >>>> >> to hold the census definitions. Entries from this file >> will now be added to the po files for translation. >> There are also translatable strings from the other files. >> >>>> To get the translation to work I removed the >>>> >> fr-local.po file and re-initialised the project: >> >>>> python make.py clean Census >>>> python make.py init Census >>>> rm Census/po/fr-local.po >>>> python make.py init Census fr >>>> python make.py update Census fr >>>> >>>> Then I edited the po file. I have not >>>> >> uploaded a copy because I don't speak French and I >> translated using a web tool. >> >>>> I compiled the po file: >>>> >>>> python make.py compile Census fr >>>> >>>> The final step is to copy the locale directory >>>> >> structure containing the addon.mo file to where the addons >> are installed. >> >>>> One important thing to note is that I have allowed >>>> >> the tag that defines a source as a census source to be >> translated. This is the string at line 57 in >> Census.py. I translated this string and used the >> translation as the key in the Data tab of the source >> objects. >> >>>> Let me know if you have any problems. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Nick. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the >>>>>> >> Verizon Developer >> >>>>>> Community >>>>>> Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class >>>>>> >> app development >> >>>>>> support >>>>>> A streamlined, 14 day to market process >>>>>> >> makes app >> >>>>>> distribution fast and easy >>>>>> Join now and get one step closer to >>>>>> >> millions of Verizon >> >>>>>> customers >>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev -----La pièce >>>>>> >> jointe associée suit----- >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Gramps-devel mailing list >>>>>> Gra...@li... >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > > > > > > |