From: John S. <jo...@st...> - 2002-11-18 17:19:46
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Hi Don and others, I've been starting to use Gramps (0.8.0-pl2, I'm not upto RH 8.0 yet) and I want to generate some ancester/descendant charts. I've gotten and installed dot (though I forget what the package it is in is called) and I've downloaded but not installed pdflib. I'll also try out 0.8.0-pl4 tonight if I get a chance. The problem I have with dot is two fold: 1. I can't specify sizes greater than C, though I have access to D and E size color plotters, which is really nice for big charts. 2. The output of dot isn't ideal. I'm really looking for something like the very structured, and dot doesn't do that type of graphs. So, does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do here? I'm a reasonable programmer, though totally clueless in python. I'd be willing to work on hacking up some code to output nice graphs, and certainly test them out. I'll take a closer look at the code and see what I can do to put together a patch for larger plotters as well. Thanks, John john"at"stoffel.org |
From: Bruce D. <bde...@at...> - 2002-11-18 20:24:30
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> Hi Don and others, > > I've been starting to use Gramps (0.8.0-pl2, I'm not upto RH 8.0 > yet) and I want to generate some ancester/descendant charts. I've > gotten and installed dot (though I forget what the package it is in is I would be interested in contributing to this effort. What are your thoughs on tiling or are you only interested in outputing to large printers. > So, does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do here? I'm a > reasonable programmer, though totally clueless in python. I'd be > willing to work on hacking up some code to output nice graphs, and > certainly test them out. > > I'll take a closer look at the code and see what I can do to put > together a patch for larger plotters as well. > I'm not sure I am a reasonable programmer but have hacked a couple of reports, see plugins/DetAncestralReport.py and plugins/DetDescendantReport.py. These may provide a starting point. > Thanks, Bruce bde...@at... > |
From: John S. <st...@lu...> - 2002-11-18 20:51:11
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Bruce> I would be interested in contributing to this effort. What are Bruce> your thoughs on tiling or are you only interested in outputing Bruce> to large printers. I'm interested in being able to both Tile across smaller pages, as well as printing to a single large page, or even tiling across multiple E-size plots. Wanna wall paper your room? In my mind, these are two seperate areas. Once you have generated the plot/graph/image at a certain size, you feed it to a routine which then tiles it across pages if need be. I've found some graphics libraries on sourceforge, but they were all Java based, which I assume don't want. We basically want a simple core that will fairly intelligently layout a tree structure, with generations obviously constrained, and using rectangles for males, ovals for females. And the lines connecting the generations should all be right angles and straight. Sorta like taking the layout for the pedigree chart and expanding it to a device independent layout. I'd even be happy to just find some other tool (like dot) and make it work, since I'd hate to re-invent the wheel here. And low level graphics programming is a pain. Bruce> I'm not sure I am a reasonable programmer but have hacked a Bruce> couple of reports, see plugins/DetAncestralReport.py and Bruce> plugins/DetDescendantReport.py. These may provide a starting Bruce> point. I'll have to find some time and start learning python. Indentation for programming blocks scares need though. John |
From: Bruce D. <bde...@at...> - 2002-11-18 21:43:13
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John, how about XML to graphics printers. I've been looking at XML since OpenOffice and Kword both define their file formats in XML. OpenOffice has Draw while Koffice has Karbon14 (Scable Graphics), Kivio (Flowcharting and Diagramming), Kontour (Drawings) and Kchart (Chart). I have not looked at any of these to see if they apply to this problem. However, generating reasonable XML is not that difficult and could be printer independent. I am not familiar with dot, were can I find a description of it. Bruce On Monday 18 November 2002 02:51 pm, John Stoffel wrote: > Bruce> I would be interested in contributing to this effort. What are > Bruce> your thoughs on tiling or are you only interested in outputing > Bruce> to large printers. > > I'm interested in being able to both Tile across smaller pages, as > well as printing to a single large page, or even tiling across > multiple E-size plots. Wanna wall paper your room? > > In my mind, these are two seperate areas. Once you have generated the > plot/graph/image at a certain size, you feed it to a routine which > then tiles it across pages if need be. > > I've found some graphics libraries on sourceforge, but they were all > Java based, which I assume don't want. We basically want a simple > core that will fairly intelligently layout a tree structure, with > generations obviously constrained, and using rectangles for males, > ovals for females. And the lines connecting the generations should > all be right angles and straight. > > Sorta like taking the layout for the pedigree chart and expanding it > to a device independent layout. > > I'd even be happy to just find some other tool (like dot) and make it > work, since I'd hate to re-invent the wheel here. And low level > graphics programming is a pain. > > Bruce> I'm not sure I am a reasonable programmer but have hacked a > Bruce> couple of reports, see plugins/DetAncestralReport.py and > Bruce> plugins/DetDescendantReport.py. These may provide a starting > Bruce> point. > > I'll have to find some time and start learning python. Indentation > for programming blocks scares need though. > > > John |
From: John S. <st...@lu...> - 2002-11-18 22:11:07
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Bruce> John, how about XML to graphics printers. I've been looking at Bruce> XML since OpenOffice and Kword both define their file formats Bruce> in XML. OpenOffice has Draw while Koffice has Karbon14 (Scable Bruce> Graphics), Kivio (Flowcharting and Diagramming), Kontour Bruce> (Drawings) and Kchart (Chart). I have not looked at any of Bruce> these to see if they apply to this problem. However, Bruce> generating reasonable XML is not that difficult and could be Bruce> printer independent. This is a *great* idea, I'm always happier re-using someone else's wheels, instead of re-creating from scratch. Just file off the VIN and away we go. I'll look into these packages tonight sometime and see what they offer. Bruce> I am not familiar with dot, were can I find a description of it. It's part of the 'graphviz' package. It's a nice tool in some ways, but not quite what I want for producing tight, well laid out charts. John |
From: Jeffrey C. O. <je...@oa...> - 2002-11-19 05:06:49
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On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 16:10, John Stoffel wrote: > Bruce> John, how about XML to graphics printers. I've been looking at > Bruce> XML since OpenOffice and Kword both define their file formats > Bruce> in XML. OpenOffice has Draw while Koffice has Karbon14 (Scable > Bruce> Graphics), Kivio (Flowcharting and Diagramming), Kontour > Bruce> (Drawings) and Kchart (Chart). I have not looked at any of > Bruce> these to see if they apply to this problem. However, > Bruce> generating reasonable XML is not that difficult and could be > Bruce> printer independent. > > This is a *great* idea, I'm always happier re-using someone else's > wheels, instead of re-creating from scratch. Just file off the VIN > and away we go. I'll look into these packages tonight sometime and > see what they offer. > > Bruce> I am not familiar with dot, were can I find a description of it. > > It's part of the 'graphviz' package. It's a nice tool in some ways, > but not quite what I want for producing tight, well laid out charts. The problem with the applications listed above is that they don't automatically lay out the graph for you, so basically you'd have to re-invent graphviz. From what I remember of my college math courses, the graph layout problem is NOT an easy one, unless you restrict yourself to strict trees, which leaves out a lot of interesting families. IIRC, there are a lot of parameters that can be tweaked in graphviz to produce graphs that are more appealing to you. See the web page www.graphviz.com for more current versions of the source and documentation. Unfortunately a combination of problems wiped out all of the work I was doing on some of the graphviz output from Gramps. Jeff |
From: John S. <st...@lu...> - 2002-11-20 14:30:21
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Jeffrey> The problem with the applications listed above is that they Jeffrey> don't automatically lay out the graph for you, so basically Jeffrey> you'd have to re-invent graphviz. From what I remember of my Jeffrey> college math courses, the graph layout problem is NOT an easy Jeffrey> one, unless you restrict yourself to strict trees, which Jeffrey> leaves out a lot of interesting families. Sure, but aren't strict trees what we want for the common case of descendany and ancestor graphs? I realize that relationships can get complicated, in my family with have a brother and a sister who married another brother and sister from another family. Not sure how to graph that! Jeffrey> IIRC, there are a lot of parameters that can be tweaked in Jeffrey> graphviz to produce graphs that are more appealing to you. Jeffrey> See the web page www.graphviz.com for more current versions Jeffrey> of the source and documentation. Unfortunately a combination Jeffrey> of problems wiped out all of the work I was doing on some of Jeffrey> the graphviz output from Gramps. I'll take a closer look, but the man page from the version I installed wasn't very helpful. John |
From: Jeffrey C. O. <je...@ol...> - 2002-11-20 16:50:14
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On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 08:30, John Stoffel wrote: > Jeffrey> The problem with the applications listed above is that they > Jeffrey> don't automatically lay out the graph for you, so basically > Jeffrey> you'd have to re-invent graphviz. From what I remember of my > Jeffrey> college math courses, the graph layout problem is NOT an easy > Jeffrey> one, unless you restrict yourself to strict trees, which > Jeffrey> leaves out a lot of interesting families. > > Sure, but aren't strict trees what we want for the common case of > descendany and ancestor graphs? I realize that relationships can get > complicated, in my family with have a brother and a sister who married > another brother and sister from another family. Not sure how to > graph that! Strict ascendant or descendant charts aren't that hard, it's just when you get into situations like you describe and want to create a chart to visualize the relationships that you need something more complex. Plus, if you know what values to fill in, you can span graphs across multiple pages of arbitrary size. > Jeffrey> IIRC, there are a lot of parameters that can be tweaked in > Jeffrey> graphviz to produce graphs that are more appealing to you. > Jeffrey> See the web page www.graphviz.com for more current versions > Jeffrey> of the source and documentation. Unfortunately a combination > Jeffrey> of problems wiped out all of the work I was doing on some of > Jeffrey> the graphviz output from Gramps. > > I'll take a closer look, but the man page from the version I installed > wasn't very helpful. No, the man page isn't very useful. But if you dig around long enough you would have found this: <http://www.research.att.com/~erg/graphviz/info/attrs.html> Which is a pretty decent reference for the graphviz language. Jeff |