As far as the programming and the logic of all of this, I do not understand it!

As far as a personal point of view, there seems to be alot of petty bickering going on.  People's emotions are getting hurt and being upset!  I believe that some individuals have stopped caring about what might be best for Gramps, the developers and the users... 

I know that change is hard for people to make those decisions.  I understand some are not fond of the idea of making a big change simply because Doug says that it would be better for everyone else including Gramps-Connect.  People are standing on a invisible line that has been drawn between Gramps-gtk and Gramps-Connect...

I understand that people take pride in writing the code that they do.  I get overwhelmed with jealousy sometimes too. 

This is what I see coming from a non-programmer bias.  Step back a little, and remove your emotions from this situation!  It needs to be thought out on a logical standpoint.  I believe that if these changes would allow a part of Gramps to work better with another...

It is like this poem that I read years and years ago called , "The Boss"

Each part of the body had decided independantly that each piece should be the boss of all of the rest. 

The eyes said I see for the body and lead man, so I should be the boss.

The hands stood up and said that I feed man and make a earning for the body, so I should be boss.

The feet stood up and said that I walk man to everywhere he goes, and get him to work, so I should be the boss.

The brain said I do everything that all the other peices do and think for man so that he can do all of these other things.  So I should be boss.

After all of these pieces had their turn to speak, the butt stood up and said I am going to be boss, and none of you can stop me!

Every piece laughed and said that no way will the butt be the boss of all of us.  So the butt plugged himself up, and soon the body stated getting sick and weak.

The butt said so what do you say now:  "Ok, Ok, you are the boss!!!" 

The moral of the story:  One can be the boss if pushed, but the body works best if all cooperate together....

I believe that Doug has been a major support in Gramps-gtk and Gramps-Connect!  It woyuld be a great loss if he left us...

Thanks for letting me ramble on.....

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Hesley

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Doug Blank <> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Brian Matherly <> wrote:

>> Another way to say this is "We don't want to
>> throw out the baby with the bath water". It is
>> important to stay focused on our primary use cases - which I
>> think Gerald has accurately identified. Changing the data
>> model used by Gramps desktop application could hinder the
>> application's performance in our primary use case.

> Yikes! Nothing that we are discussing would hinder Gramps
> Gtk... part of the point was that what was good for one
> (only unserializing/retrieving what you need) would be good
> for both.

Nobody is going to allow Gramps-GTK to be hindered. But your "point" about "what's good for one is good for both" hasn't been proven (yet).

>> This makes me wonder ... has anyone considered that there
>> may be so little in common between Gramps-Connect and the
>> Gramps desktop application that it might not even be worth
>> sharing code at all? What real benefit do we gain by
>> sharing?

> You guys act like you're just realizing that
> Gramps-Connect exists... yes, a lot of discussion has been
> made, and it was decided that a lot can be shared.
>> I've seen Doug crank out large amounts of code in a
>> short amount of time. I bet that if we said "Doug, take
>> what you want from Gramps, start your own project, and
>> customize it however you see fit", he would be done by
>> now.
> I don't know if he'd been done by now, but he'd
> be pretty sad that the group that he thought he was working
> with told him to go away.

No one is going to tell you to go away. Please don't take these questions so personally. The community (of which you are a part) will decide what is best.

>> I'm just wondering out loud and not trying to advocate
>> one way or another. But it is a question worth asking ;)

> That question could have been asked, perhaps, when the
> suggestion was first made. Or when I wrote a GEP. Or when
> Benny suggested Django. Or when we had a SVN branch. Or when
> Benny suggested that we move it over to trunk. Or when I
> proposed that we have a student work on it for a semester.
> Or when we picked a name for the project. But at some point,
> please, stop asking this question and either accept that
> gramps includes gramps-connect, or reject it.

You obviously don't know our own strength. You single handedly produce VOLUMES of traffic on the wiki, bug tracker, mailing list, blog and in SVN (all of it valuable and important, by the way). There are many nights when I sit down for the precious little time I have for Gramps and it is all I can do to read all the messages that result from your work (and if I'm lucky, respond). You must either spend 8 hours a day working on Gramps, or you have super-human programming abilities. You are just going to have to accept that not all of us have super-human programming abilities and you are going to have to stop occasionally and let the rest of us catch up. That's what Gerald and I are doing now.

Additionally, when all the past decisions were made, they were made with the information that was available at the time. As development progresses, we learn more about what we have, and how things are fitting together. This new information opens the possibility that we may want to change a decision that we made in the past. The worst thing we can do is dig our heels in and say "I don't care if there's a better way - we've already made the decision". So, when someone challenges a past decision, we need to consider the new information and re-evaluate.

Right now, I think we have new information. It appears that code we once thought was easily shared between gramps-connect and gramps-gtk may not be as easily shared as we thought. Am I right, is that new information? Because it is to me.

None of this is new, as Benny has been discussing this since at least August, and he was interested in pure speed up for Gramps Gtk:

I hope you can sympathize with my situation. I'm doing the best I can to keep up, honestly.

When you get caught up, please let us all know if gramps-connect is indeed part of gramps.



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