Ray,

Some points:
* Genepro is a way to draw a family tree. It is first a sort of drawing program, second a way to store genealogy. Gramps on the other hand is an application to store genealogy, with a big emphasis on correct storing of sources. What use is it to know A is married to B if over a year you no longer know where you found that information and how reliable it is?
* To me, http://www.genopro.com/family-tree-software/ is not very readable without a course in genograms
* As you draw the diagram in genepro, it can be very complicated. My guess is most users will end up with spaghetti very fast :-). Don't you spend too much time trying to obtain a nice visual graph?
In Grampsr, you store data, and there is a report that uses that to draw a generic family tree. This will never contain the 'organic' feature you can have in genepro, but has the advantage of being deterministic. Layout reports are improved with every release in Gramps, eg, 3.3 has better descendant view, allows vertical pedigree view, ... .

So, it is all up to the things you require. As the starting points of the two programs are very different, they will suite different workflows.

The fact that the GEDCOM output of Genepro is so bad/weak is however a good reason to skip it in my opinion.

Greetings,
Benny
2011/5/23 Ray <rayambrosi@gmail.com>

Hello Jerome

Thanks for examining the 'Gedcom' file that was exported by GenoPro.

I'm glad that you told me now that GenoPro is producing a poor Gedcom export. I think its time for me to stop using that application.
I don't want to input thousands of records into a proprietary application only to find that my data is locked into it.
I'd much rather donate the cost of buying a proprietary app to the GRAMPS project.
If GRAMPS can meet my needs for input and output, I will be very pleased indeed to switch!

I tried exporting the GenoPro mini-project to .xml format. I have included this .xml file. I have also included the original .gno file.
Could you please examine this to see how it might be imported into GRAMPS?

I appreciate your suggestions and the suggestions and advice of users.

Thank you very much!

Ray




 On 5/23/2011 2:28 AM, jerome wrote:
I am not certain this should be named gedcom ...

Name into Gedcom are custom formats and no events are exported!

1 NAME
2 FULL
3 FORMAT %T %F (%N) %M %L (%L2) %S
2 DISPLAY
3 FORMAT %F %M %L (%L2)
1 NAME Cai Guangrui 蔡光瑞 //

Bonus, many styles are not a part of Gedcom specifications

1 FONT Arial Unicode MS
1 DISPLAY
2 TAG YoB_YoD
2 COLORS
3 GENDER
4 SYMBOL #000000
4 TEXT #000000
4 FILL #FFFFFF
4 FILL
5 TOP
6 LEFT #FF0000
6 RIGHT #FF0000
5 BOTTOM
6 LEFT #FF0000
6 RIGHT #FF0000
3 BORDER
4 OUTLINE #000080
4 FILL #FFFF80
3 LABEL
4 TOP #000000
4 BOTTOM #000000
4 FILL
5 TOP #FFFFFF
5 BOTTOM #FFFFFF
1 ACTIVEGENOMAP GenoMap1
0 GENOMAP
1 NAME GenoMap1
1 ZOOM 95
1 POSITION 660,-33
1 BOUNDARYRECT 404,166,966,-204
1 SELECTION fam00010, fam00022, fam00020, ind00016, ind00017, ind00044, ind00045,
2 CONC ind00068, ind00075, ind00046, ind00047, ind00048

Places and Sources are into Notes, etc ...

Well, I remember previous GenoPro versions and some very bad practices[1].
This one is also not fair...

The only one solution for properly migrate your data seems to convert GenoPro file formats (based on XML) to Gramps XML. Do you have the same data into GenoPro file format (.gno) ?

Can you add a sample on one bug report (bug tracker)?


[1] http://www.tamurajones.net/GenoPro2007.xhtml


--- En date de : Dim 22.5.11, Ray<rayambrosi@gmail.com>  a écrit :

De: Ray<rayambrosi@gmail.com>
Objet: Re: Re : [Gramps-users] Fwd: Re: Re : can GRAMPS create vertical GENOGRAMS like those created by GenoPro?
À: "jerome"<romjerome@yahoo.fr>, gramps-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Dimanche 22 mai 2011, 17h32
Hi Jerome,

1.  I had a look at that addon, but it only seems to
exist for Linux.  I
was using Linux until last year, but I have been forced to
return to
Windows 7 in order to run some software for my
dissertation. Virtual
machines were not working.  I do have a Linux virtual
machine and could
install GRAMPS there.
That add-on looks great. I far prefer this type of GUI
input method as
it makes sense to me, and to my 'informants' in rural China
whose family
genealogy diagrams look similar to those in GenoPro (and
similar to the
DescendantsLines plugin).

2. I have converted a small geneology to Gedcom and have
included it for
anyone to have a look to see if the import will work.

3. I had a look at the bug tracker
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=4564 and at
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2218&PHPSESSID=7f172a8c6bd687c8fa22eec73b354e86
It seems like a good idea. With a few improvements here and
there,
GRAMPS will be able to suit the needs of a bigger audience.
I'm so new
to this, but it seems that GRAMPS is already the standard
in the
open-source world and a very capable program when compared
to anything
commercial offering.

I support open-source in part because its the only way to
ensure
software is not commodified which would restrict its access
to the poor.
Of course it maintains open standards and prevents
companies from
controlling out data.  I began using GenoPro because
it is easy to
learn, and it drew genograms that looked very much like the

anthropological descent diagrams that I was used to, and
very similar to
the ones that rural people here in China use when drawing
their family
genealogy diagrams. If GRAMPS will be able to do the same,
I'd be
pleased to switch, and contribute the the development of
GRAMPS in any
way I can :)

4. Could the GraphView view input plugin and the
DescendantsLines plugin
be updated so that they look more similar in their input or
output? Is
there some way to integrate this so they look more alike
and make it
easier for users to understand the input and output?

Thank you for your time and help!!




On 5/21/2011 8:55 PM, jerome wrote:
Ray,


1. to edit your data into Gramps like into GenoPro.
This should be already possible with an addon (not
sure under Windows OS):
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Graph_View#Features

2. to export genealogical data created with GenoPro
into GRAMPS?
yes, via Gedcom file format (import/export)

Does the support will be complete (all data) ?
I do not know. Does GenoPro export all data on the
gedcom file format or adds some custom tags/markup ? We need
a sample.
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.2_Wiki_Manual_-_Manage_Family_Trees#Importing_data

Else, I see that GenoPro also uses a XML based file
format
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GenoPro#File_Format
We can imagine an import/export addon or conversion
script.
There was a request like this one on bug tracker (as
feature request), see:
http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Using_the_bug_tracker
and
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=4564


Regards,
Jérôme


--- En date de : Sam 21.5.11, Ray<rayambrosi@gmail.com>
a écrit :
De: Ray<rayambrosi@gmail.com>
Objet: Re: Re : [Gramps-users] Fwd: Re: Re : can
GRAMPS create vertical GENOGRAMS like those created by
GenoPro?
À: "jerome"<romjerome@yahoo.fr>
Cc: gramps-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Samedi 21 mai 2011, 11h41
Hello!
Thank your reply!
Because I lack experience with the application, I
can't
really
understand what the 'experimental' version is
ignoring.
However, your reply is encouraging. I would far
prefer to
use GRAMPS
than a proprietary application. But I avoided
using it
because I need to
be able to enter data in an GUI that shows a
vertical tree
that expands
as I add to it.

Do you think is possible to export the
genealogical data
that I created
in GenoPro into GRAMPS?

Might there be a way to include this type of entry
directly
in the
GRAMPS GUI?
This is easier for me and for my informants who
help me
expand the
student-teacher genealogical tree that I'm
building. Have
not other
researchers requested this tree-style input
interface or
reporting
method? I'm just curious. In my introductory
anthropology
courses, that
is how we charted genealogical data -- by using
this type
of vertical
chart, not a horizontal one. Maybe everything has
changed
now :)

Thank you again!
- Ray



On 5/20/2011 1:09 AM, jerome wrote:
Ray,

     a) the page at http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=DescendantsLines
        says that this is
an experimental
script.
        This is very
encouraging and a
great development. But does it work
        reliably and is it
supported?  I fear undertaking a big project
in
        GRAMPS (or
transferring my current
Genopro project) only to find
        that this script
won't work, or is
not fully supported.
"Experimental" because it ignores current
'docgen'
ecosystem (file format, style, paper options). It
has been
tested but should not be considered as a 'real'
report,
rather the use of the script via gramps' plugin
environment...
I suppose there is still a possible issue on
code
(family, person id), but with current use this
should be
hidden !
What is your need ? to generate a report ? to
navigate
through your data ?
to filter the data ?

If you need this type of report, we can
generate a
version for filtering your data (argument(s)
hardcoded),
which could be used as script or into gramps
(GUI).
Even if something produces an unexpected
result, some
devs should be able to quickly provide a
solution.

Jérôme


--- En date de : Jeu 19.5.11, Ray<rayambrosi@gmail.com>
a écrit :
De: Ray<rayambrosi@gmail.com>
Objet: [Gramps-users] Fwd: Re: Re : can GRAMPS
create
vertical GENOGRAMS like those created by GenoPro?
À: gramps-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Jeudi 19 mai 2011, 17h40


        I'm getting used to
this
list-thing too.. I also just noticed the
        'reply to list'
button.


        -------- Original
Message
--------


  Subject:

  Re: Re :
[Gramps-users] can GRAMPS create vertical
GENOGRAMS like those created by GenoPro?

  Date:

  Thu, 19 May
2011 19:10:27 +0800

  From:

  Raymond
Ambrosi<rayambrosi@gmail.com>

  To:

  jerome<romjerome@yahoo.fr>






        Thank you
Jérôme!


        The diagram at http://gramps-project.org/wiki/images/0/0f/DescendantsLines.png
        and at http://gramps-project.org/wiki/images/d/d4/Charlemagne-DescendantsLines.png

        are exactly the
types of output I
am looking for.

          My
question:
        a) the page at http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=DescendantsLines
        says that this is
an experimental
script.
        This is very
encouraging and a
great development. But does it work
        reliably and is it
supported?  I fear undertaking a big project
in
        GRAMPS (or
transferring my current
Genopro project) only to find
        that this script
won't work, or is
not fully supported.

        This looks like a
fantastic
feature. It would allow me to move to an
        open-source
solution (I generally
try to only support and promote
        open-source
applications).
        I have not tried it
yet, but I
would guess that adding new
        individuals to the
tree would be
easy and we could quickly see the
        newly-added
individual on the tree
diagram.











        On 19 May 2011
17:50, jerome<romjerome@yahoo.fr>
          wrote:


            Hi,






  >    Is
there a feature in GRAMPS that allows it to draw

  vertical

  GENOGRAMS
simlar to the diagrams created by GenoPro?


            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genogram




Something like:
            http://gramps-project.org/wiki/images/4/48/Graph_view.jpg

            or

            http://gramps-project.org/wiki/images/0/0f/DescendantsLines.png




  >    I
want to use GRAMPS to collect info on, and map out
the

  relationships
among the descendants of religious groups that I

  am studying.



            It
should be
possible to filter a group, but for this you
should
            try
to generate your
own custom filters:
            http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.2_Wiki_Manual_-_Filters

            and
to try
Relationship graph report:
            http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.2_Wiki_Manual_-_Reports_-_part_5#Relationship_Graph




  >    I
need that because it looks similar to the
genealogy

  trees that my
informants use.If the application cannot, I

  would like to
ask the developers to please include this

  function as
its quite useful for people who make
anthropological genealogy charts using standard
symbols.


            There
is an
experimental test, derived from a standalone
python

script:
            http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=DescendantsLines

            http://gramps-project.org/wiki/images/d/d4/Charlemagne-DescendantsLines.png






Jérôme




            ---
En date de : Jeu
19.5.11, Raymond Ambrosi<rayambrosi@gmail.com>
            a
écrit :


            De:
Raymond
Ambrosi<rayambrosi@gmail.com>

Objet:
[Gramps-users] can GRAMPS create vertical
GENOGRAMS like
            those
created by
GenoPro?
            À:
gramps-users@lists.sourceforge.net
            Date:
Jeudi 19 mai
2011, 9h46


  Hi





  Is there a
feature in GRAMPS that allows it to draw vertical

  GENOGRAMS
simlar to the diagrams created by GenoPro? I want
to

  use

  GRAMPS to
collect info on, and map out the relationships
among

  the

  descendants
of religious groups that I am studying.

  I have been
considering GRAMPS for a long time, and am a very

  big

  supporter of
open source movement, but have not been able to

  get an

  output
similar to the genogram of GenoPro.

  I need that
because it looks similar to the genealogy trees

  that my
informants use.If the application cannot, I would
like

  to ask the
developers to please include this function as its

  quite useful
for people who make anthropological genealogy

  charts using
standard symbols.


  Thanks for
any advice! And thanks for a great application.R





-----La pièce
jointe associée suit-----


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  What Every
C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know!

  Read this
article and learn how Intel has extended the
reach

  of its

next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux*
C/C++ and

  Fortran

  developers
boost performance applications - including

  clusters.

  http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay


-----La pièce
jointe associée suit-----



_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list

    Gramps-users@lists.sourceforge.net

    https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users













-----La pièce jointe associée suit-----


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should
Know!
Read this article and learn how Intel has
extended the
reach of its
next-generation tools to help Windows* and
Linux*
C/C++ and Fortran
developers boost performance applications -
including
clusters.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
-----La pièce jointe associée suit-----


_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
Gramps-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know!
Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its
next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran
developers boost performance applications - including clusters.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
Gramps-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users