Thread: [Gpsbabel-misc] GPSBabel questions, Garmin 12XL and GPSMap76
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From: Dudley, L. <du...@po...> - 2004-11-29 20:30:40
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I have a number of questions after downloading GPSBabel to WindowsXP. 1. GPSBabel does not understand my Garmin 12XL, version 3.62 software. Unfortunately, Garmin tells me I cannot upgrade firmware on this early version of 12XL unit unless I send it back to the factory for an upgrade. When I try the following command line gpsbabel -t -D9 -i garmin -o gpx com1: data.out I see the following trace --- GPSBabel Version: 1.2.4 Tx Data:10 fe 00 02 10 03 : ...(PRDREQ ) Rx Data:10 06 02 fe 00 fa 10 03 (ACK ) Rx Data:10 ff 1d 60 00 6a 01 47 50 53 20 31 32 58 4c 20 53 4f 46 54 57 41 52 45 20 20 33 2e 36 32 20 00 54 10 03 (PRDDAT ) Tx Data:10 06 02 ff 00 f9 10 03 : .....(ACK ) GPS 12XL SOFTWARE 3.62 ID: 96 Version: 3.62 Rx Data:00 GPS_Packet_Read: No DLE Tx Data:10 06 02 ff 00 f9 10 03 : .....(ACK ) Rx Data:00 GPS_Packet_Read: No DLE Tx Data:10 06 02 ff 00 f9 10 03 : .....(ACK ) Rx Data:00 GPS_Packet_Read: No DLE Tx Data:10 06 02 ff 00 f9 10 03 : .....(ACK ) Tx Data:10 00 02 05 00 f9 10 03 : .....(CMDDAT Xfer Time) Rx Data:10 06 02 00 00 f8 10 03 (ACK ) Rx Data:00 GPS_Packet_Read: No DLE GARMIN:Can't init com1: Is it possible that future releases will address this problem ? 2. If I use some old software (GARDOWN) that understands the 12XL, I can download track logs that include the date and time that each point is taken in the track log. If I try gpsbabel -t -D9 -i garmin -o gpx com1: data.out with my GPSMap76, I get a track log OK, but not date and time information. Below is a sample of the data coming back. Can anyone tell me whether the GPSMap76 is sending date time information in it's track log ? If yes, how do I get GPSBabel to produce this detail ? Tx Data:10 0a 02 06 00 ee 10 03 : .....(CMDDAT Xfer Trk) Rx Data:10 06 02 0a 00 ee 10 03 (ACK ) Rx Data:10 1b 02 0a 00 d9 10 03 (RECORD ) Tx Data:10 06 02 1b 00 dd 10 03 : .....(ACK ) Rx Data:10 63 0c 00 ff 32 39 2d 4e 4f 56 2d 30 34 00 76 10 03 (TRKHDR ) Tx Data:10 06 02 63 00 95 10 03 : c....(ACK ) Rx Data:10 22 18 00 5c 77 1f 00 df 87 c9 ff ff ff ff a0 07 e6 42 51 59 04 69 01 44 6d 00 11 10 03 (TRKDAT ) Tx Data:10 06 02 22 00 d6 10 03 : .....(ACK ) Rx Data:10 22 18 00 5a 77 1f 00 e4 87 c9 ff ff ff ff 70 7e da 42 51 59 04 69 00 44 6d 00 d4 10 03 (TRKDAT ) Tx Data:10 06 02 22 00 d6 10 03 : .....(ACK ) Rx Data:10 22 18 00 59 77 1f 00 f3 87 c9 ff ff ff ff 10 10 a6 d6 42 51 59 04 69 00 44 6d 00 02 10 03 (TRKDAT ) Tx Data:10 06 02 22 00 d6 10 03 : .....(ACK ) Rx Data:10 22 18 00 5a 77 1f 00 e2 87 c9 ff ff ff ff 50 88 d9 42 51 59 04 69 00 44 6d 00 ed 10 03 (TRKDAT ) Tx Data:10 06 02 22 00 d6 10 03 : .....(ACK ) Rx Data:10 63 0d 01 ff 41 43 54 49 56 45 20 4c 4f 47 00 d2 10 03 (TRKHDR) Regards Lorne Dudley Kingston, Ontario |
From: Robert L. <rob...@us...> - 2004-11-30 02:47:53
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Dudley, Lorne wrote: > 1. GPSBabel does not understand my Garmin 12XL, version 3.62 software. I have a 12 (xl-not) here on loan from a friend that I hope to check with GPSBabel soon. It's currently, uuuuh, third on my list of midnight projects. > Rx Data:10 06 02 fe 00 fa 10 03 (ACK ) > Rx Data:10 ff 1d 60 00 6a 01 47 50 53 20 31 32 58 4c 20 53 4f 46 54 57 41 > 52 45 > 20 20 33 2e 36 32 20 00 54 10 03 (PRDDAT ) > Tx Data:10 06 02 ff 00 f9 10 03 : .....(ACK ) > GPS 12XL SOFTWARE 3.62 > ID: 96 > > Version: 3.62 > > Rx Data:00 GPS_Packet_Read: No DLE Interesting. This is the second report of this we have. There are two kinds of garmin identification protocols. The new way sends a second packet after that "10 ff" one that contains a list of the tricks it knows and with what dialect is speaks those. The old way was a table lookup ("I am model 96 and I speak...") and there is kind of weird timeout case in libjeeps that senses it wasn't going to get that "new" case and treat it as an old one. I recently bought a GPS II in the hopes of being able to better serve that generation of products. It's fourth on my list. :-) > If I try > gpsbabel -t -D9 -i garmin -o gpx com1: data.out > with my GPSMap76, I get a track log OK, but not date and time > information. Below is a sample of the data coming back. You clipped an important piece of information. That "Capability" jibberish at the top tells us which of the three protocols (A00x) and which of the of the three (D30x) trackpoints and which of the three (D31x) track headers is in use. If I were really bored, I could try decoding each combination of the dumps below to see which one fit, but that's below my current fun threshhold for the evening. All three trackpoints contain a time field. My *guess* is the 76 is of the generation that it'd do D301's. If that's true and I decode the dump below, the "ff ff ff ff" is where the time would be. (Then again, if that's true, there are extra bytes in those packets...) > Can anyone tell me whether the GPSMap76 is sending date time information > in it's track log ? If yes, how do I get GPSBabel to produce this Is this track log "real" or was it put in the unit by another program? If that's the case, section 6.6.1 tells the tale: 6.6.1. Time Values Ignored by GPS When the Host transfers a track log to the GPS, the GPS ignores the incoming time value for each track log point and sets the time value to zero in its internal database. If the GPS later transfers the track log back to the Host, the time values will be zero. Thus, the Host is able to differentiate between track logs that were actually recorded by the GPS and track logs that were transferred to the GPS by an external Host. NOTE: Some GPS units use 0x7FFFFFFF or 0xFFFFFFFF instead of zero to indicate an invalid time value. RJL |
From: Dudley, L. <du...@po...> - 2004-11-30 03:03:25
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Hi Robert ! Thanks for the fast reply. The GPSmap76 was a real SAVED tracklog. Since sending my questions, I cleared the track log and recorded a new one, without saving it. I also downloaded the latest beta version. With that version GPSBabel shows the date/time of each ACTIVE tracklog item, so I am deducing that maybe Garmin strips the date/time information when the track log is SAVED ??? It shows elevation, which is not of much use to me. Any chance this is the date/time data ??? Let me know if you have a new beta for the 12XL and I'll check it out for you. Regards Lorne Dudley Kingston, Ontario On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Robert Lipe wrote: > Dudley, Lorne wrote: > >> 1. GPSBabel does not understand my Garmin 12XL, version 3.62 software. > > I have a 12 (xl-not) here on loan from a friend that I hope to check > with GPSBabel soon. It's currently, uuuuh, third on my list of midnight > projects. > >> Rx Data:10 06 02 fe 00 fa 10 03 (ACK ) >> Rx Data:10 ff 1d 60 00 6a 01 47 50 53 20 31 32 58 4c 20 53 4f 46 54 57 41 >> 52 45 >> 20 20 33 2e 36 32 20 00 54 10 03 (PRDDAT ) >> Tx Data:10 06 02 ff 00 f9 10 03 : .....(ACK ) >> GPS 12XL SOFTWARE 3.62 >> ID: 96 >> >> Version: 3.62 >> >> Rx Data:00 GPS_Packet_Read: No DLE > > Interesting. This is the second report of this we have. > > There are two kinds of garmin identification protocols. The new way > sends a second packet after that "10 ff" one that contains a list of the > tricks it knows and with what dialect is speaks those. The old way was > a table lookup ("I am model 96 and I speak...") and there is kind of > weird timeout case in libjeeps that senses it wasn't going to get that > "new" case and treat it as an old one. > > I recently bought a GPS II in the hopes of being able to better serve > that generation of products. It's fourth on my list. :-) > >> If I try >> gpsbabel -t -D9 -i garmin -o gpx com1: data.out >> with my GPSMap76, I get a track log OK, but not date and time >> information. Below is a sample of the data coming back. > > You clipped an important piece of information. That "Capability" > jibberish at the top tells us which of the three protocols (A00x) and > which of the of the three (D30x) trackpoints and which of the three > (D31x) track headers is in use. If I were really bored, I could try > decoding each combination of the dumps below to see which one fit, but > that's below my current fun threshhold for the evening. > > All three trackpoints contain a time field. > > My *guess* is the 76 is of the generation that it'd do D301's. If that's > true and I decode the dump below, the "ff ff ff ff" is where the time > would be. (Then again, if that's true, there are extra bytes in those > packets...) > >> Can anyone tell me whether the GPSMap76 is sending date time information >> in it's track log ? If yes, how do I get GPSBabel to produce this > > Is this track log "real" or was it put in the unit by another program? If > that's the case, section 6.6.1 tells the tale: > > 6.6.1. Time Values Ignored by GPS > > When the Host transfers a track log to the GPS, the GPS ignores > the incoming time value for each track log point and sets the > time value to zero in its internal database. If the GPS later > transfers the track log back to the Host, the time values will > be zero. Thus, the Host is able to differentiate between track > logs that were actually recorded by the GPS and track logs that > were transferred to the GPS by an external Host. NOTE: Some GPS > units use 0x7FFFFFFF or 0xFFFFFFFF instead of zero to indicate > an invalid time value. > > > RJL > |
From: Mark C. <ma...@ma...> - 2004-11-30 03:17:49
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On Monday 29 November 2004 07:03 pm, Dudley, Lorne wrote: > Hi Robert ! > > Thanks for the fast reply. > > The GPSmap76 was a real SAVED tracklog. Since sending my questions, I > cleared the track log and recorded a new one, without saving it. > > I also downloaded the latest beta version. With that version > GPSBabel shows the date/time of each ACTIVE tracklog item, so I am > deducing that maybe Garmin strips the date/time information when the track > log is SAVED ??? It shows elevation, which is not of much use to me. > Any chance this is the date/time data ??? I have the Garmin Rino 120. It does strip the date/time information when the track log is saved. Mark |
From: Rich G. <ri...@te...> - 2004-11-30 06:52:34
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> > I also downloaded the latest beta version. With that version > > GPSBabel shows the date/time of each ACTIVE tracklog item, so I am > > deducing that maybe Garmin strips the date/time information when the track > > log is SAVED ??? It shows elevation, which is not of much use to me. > > Any chance this is the date/time data ??? > > I have the Garmin Rino 120. It does strip the date/time information when the > track log is saved. So does the III plus, and I assume so does the legend. Saving track logs also 'simplifies' the track. For a long time I assumed that stripping the time stamp and getting rid of points were intrinsically 'bad' things, and that there was no good reason for it... But it turns out, upon sort of looking at menu options a little, that the idea _seems_ to be to use the saved tracks sort of like routes with finer granularity, and hence the 'TracBack' feature... Cheers, Rich |
From: Robert L. <rob...@us...> - 2004-11-30 14:29:44
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> > I have the Garmin Rino 120. It does strip the date/time information > > when the track log is saved. > > So does the III plus, and I assume so does the legend. Saving track Interesting. The 60CS doesn't appear to do so; it seems to retain the timestamps. <trk> <name>ACTIVE LOG #106</name> <number>105</number> <trkseg> <trkpt lat="35.824990" lon="-86.847102"> <ele>252.483398</ele> <time>2004-11-30T14:14:24Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="35.824990" lon="-86.847102"> <ele>270.267700</ele> <time>2004-11-30T14:14:25Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="35.824990" lon="-86.847102"> <ele>270.267700</ele> <time>2004-11-30T14:14:26Z</time> </trkpt> </trkseg> </trk> So it looks like the answer to the original question is that most Garmins do indeed "lose" the timing information on all but the current track. I'll confess I haven't used the track logs from a Garmin much, but to listen to the Garmin users rant about how great track support it's suprising to see that all but the newest units throw away both trackpoints and timestamps so readily. The Magellans don't support multiple route segments. Mapsend kind of synthesizes them by looking for breaks of 4 hours between track points and deducing that means a new track. But the unit doesn't throw data away, either. This kind of takes the wind out of my idea of a voodoo geocaching logger that fondled your track log, looked for open treasure chests near that track, then opened the appropriate "log this cache" page... RJL |
From: Dudley, L. <du...@po...> - 2004-11-30 18:14:16
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Hi Robert ! I wonder if we are using different terms for SAVED ??? On my GPSmap76, the ACTIVE track log shows date/time stamps. When I go to the "Save" option on the "Tracks" page and "Save" the ACTIVE track log to something like 30-NOV-04, then that particular track log comes back with no date/time stamp information. For example, <trk> <name>30-NOV-04</name> <trkseg> <trkpt lat="44.249411" lon="-76.597388"> <ele>115.014893</ele> </trkpt> v.s. <trk> <name>ACTIVE LOG</name> <number>2</number> <trkseg> <trkpt lat="44.249418" lon="-76.597391"> <ele>115.014893</ele> <time>2004-11-29T19:41:26Z</time> </trkpt> Regards Lorne Dudley Kingston, Ontario On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Robert Lipe wrote: >>> I have the Garmin Rino 120. It does strip the date/time information >>> when the track log is saved. >> >> So does the III plus, and I assume so does the legend. Saving track > > Interesting. The 60CS doesn't appear to do so; it seems to retain the > timestamps. > > <trk> > <name>ACTIVE LOG #106</name> > <number>105</number> > <trkseg> > <trkpt lat="35.824990" lon="-86.847102"> > <ele>252.483398</ele> > <time>2004-11-30T14:14:24Z</time> > </trkpt> > <trkpt lat="35.824990" lon="-86.847102"> > <ele>270.267700</ele> > <time>2004-11-30T14:14:25Z</time> > </trkpt> > <trkpt lat="35.824990" lon="-86.847102"> > <ele>270.267700</ele> > <time>2004-11-30T14:14:26Z</time> > </trkpt> > </trkseg> > </trk> > > So it looks like the answer to the original question is that most > Garmins do indeed "lose" the timing information on all but the current > track. I'll confess I haven't used the track logs from a Garmin much, > but to listen to the Garmin users rant about how great track support > it's suprising to see that all but the newest units throw away both > trackpoints and timestamps so readily. > > The Magellans don't support multiple route segments. Mapsend kind of > synthesizes them by looking for breaks of 4 hours between track points > and deducing that means a new track. But the unit doesn't throw data > away, either. > > This kind of takes the wind out of my idea of a voodoo geocaching logger > that fondled your track log, looked for open treasure chests near that > track, then opened the appropriate "log this cache" page... > > RJL > |
From: Robert L. <rob...@us...> - 2004-11-30 18:28:22
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Dudley, Lorne wrote: > I wonder if we are using different terms for SAVED ??? Apparently. Now that I've saved the 10,000 trackpoints on my 60 (my word, what a slow process), I see that it, too, does this. I'd never done this with the Garmin before. The tracks returned from the unit that aren't listed as "Active log XXX" don't have timestamp information. > On my GPSmap76, the ACTIVE track log shows date/time stamps. > > When I go to the "Save" option on the "Tracks" page and "Save" the > ACTIVE track log to something like 30-NOV-04, then that particular track > log comes back with no date/time stamp information. That's consistent with what I see now. I think we've collectively iterated that all the Garmins toss the timestamp information from save tracks and keep it only for active tracks. At least some of us are now a little wiser in the ways of Garmin track parlance now... RJL |
From: Lars L. <la...@us...> - 2004-11-30 12:29:10
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On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 19:17 -0800, Mark Coulter wrote: > On Monday 29 November 2004 07:03 pm, Dudley, Lorne wrote: > > I also downloaded the latest beta version. With that version > > GPSBabel shows the date/time of each ACTIVE tracklog item, so I am > > deducing that maybe Garmin strips the date/time information when the tr= ack > > log is SAVED ??? It shows elevation, which is not of much use to me. > > Any chance this is the date/time data ??? >=20 > I have the Garmin Rino 120. It does strip the date/time information when= the=20 > track log is saved. The eTrex does that too. --=20 Lars Luthman PGP key: http://www.d.kth.se/~d00-llu/pgp_key.php Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E |
From: Robert L. <rob...@us...> - 2004-11-30 14:36:26
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Dudley, Lorne wrote: > Let me know if you have a new beta for the 12XL and I'll check it out for > you. Watch the list for releases and peek at http://www.gpsbabel.org/changes.html when new betas are made. If neither the 12 nor the II+ I have exhibit this problem, perhaps you can loan the unit to a developer to get it fixed. We've had pretty good success with loaner equipment during GPSBabel development. The reality is that with the donation rate of code and funding to GPSBabel, we just can't support everything, so a lot depends on someone wanting something fixed/developed badly enough to help make it happen. Let's hope the geriatric Garmins I have in hand expose the same problem and you'll benefit from any fixes developed. RJL |