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From: Ian H. <ih...@be...> - 2007-03-22 19:29:58
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Scott, this sounds great. I would love to see our ongoing extensions to GBrowse (Ajax, wiki...) in something like this. Can I ask why use VMware instead of e.g. a liveCD or Knoppix type arrangement? Ian Scott Cain wrote: > Hello, > > Recently, the people in my lab have been experimenting a lot with VMware > for creating virtual machines. I am excited about the potential uses > for these virtual machines for several purposes, among them the ability > to create a consistent platform for teaching (like giving a classroom a > disk with the VMware player and a linux VM with GBrowse preinstalled to > give a tutorial), and for creating virtual machines that could be used > as a 'test server' that people interested in GMOD software could get and > try out without having to set up a server to do it. That is what this > email is about. > > My goal is two-fold: first I am looking for volunteers. If anybody > would like to under take the task of creating a virtual machine and > populate it with GMOD software and sample data, I would be thrilled to > give guidance and moral support. > > Second, I want to get feedback on what should be installed. There is > both the question of sample data and software. Here are my thoughts so > far: > > Chado and related core components > XORT > GBrowse > Apollo > CMap > Turnkey/gmod-web > BLAST graphic viewer > > Also, there are some things 'on the bubble' that I haven't decided > whether they should be installed: > > Sybil > Flash GViewer > Textpresso > BioMart > DAS2 server > > Any thoughts on these? > > Thanks for your time, > Scott > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gmod-gbrowse mailing list > Gmo...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-gbrowse |
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From: Scott C. <cai...@gm...> - 2007-03-22 19:36:56
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On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 12:29 -0700, Ian Holmes wrote: > Scott, this sounds great. >=20 > I would love to see our ongoing extensions to GBrowse (Ajax, wiki...) in=20 > something like this. >=20 > Can I ask why use VMware instead of e.g. a liveCD or Knoppix type=20 > arrangement? Um, I dunno, VMware is the technology that Lincoln told me about--I've done virtually no research other than to try it out and find that it works. The other day I was running a linux host while listen to iTunes running inside of a Windows guest streaming from my wife's Mac. The ability to easily move between a host OS and the guest VM is pretty appealing. I guess one thing I like about VMware is the ease of creation. If I create a VM that has chado and GBrowse installed in it, and someone else wants to add Apollo, all they have to do is get my VM, add it and resave it (at least in theory, that I haven't tried out). Scott >=20 > Ian >=20 >=20 >=20 > Scott Cain wrote: > > Hello, > >=20 > > Recently, the people in my lab have been experimenting a lot with VMwar= e > > for creating virtual machines. I am excited about the potential uses > > for these virtual machines for several purposes, among them the ability > > to create a consistent platform for teaching (like giving a classroom a > > disk with the VMware player and a linux VM with GBrowse preinstalled to > > give a tutorial), and for creating virtual machines that could be used > > as a 'test server' that people interested in GMOD software could get an= d > > try out without having to set up a server to do it. That is what this > > email is about. > >=20 > > My goal is two-fold: first I am looking for volunteers. If anybody > > would like to under take the task of creating a virtual machine and > > populate it with GMOD software and sample data, I would be thrilled to > > give guidance and moral support. > >=20 > > Second, I want to get feedback on what should be installed. There is > > both the question of sample data and software. Here are my thoughts so > > far: > >=20 > > Chado and related core components > > XORT > > GBrowse > > Apollo > > CMap > > Turnkey/gmod-web > > BLAST graphic viewer > >=20 > > Also, there are some things 'on the bubble' that I haven't decided > > whether they should be installed: > >=20 > > Sybil > > Flash GViewer > > Textpresso > > BioMart > > DAS2 server > >=20 > > Any thoughts on these? > >=20 > > Thanks for your time, > > Scott > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - > >=20 > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share= your > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID= =3DDEVDEV > >=20 > >=20 > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmod-gbrowse mailing list > > Gmo...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-gbrowse >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share y= our > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D= DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Gmod-ajax mailing list > Gmo...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-ajax --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Scott Cain, Ph. D. cai...@gm... GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory |
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From: Ian H. <ih...@be...> - 2007-03-22 19:39:46
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Yeah, I guess running VMware is a bit more appealing than rebooting the computer, for the casually interested user.. Scott Cain wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 12:29 -0700, Ian Holmes wrote: >> Scott, this sounds great. >> >> I would love to see our ongoing extensions to GBrowse (Ajax, wiki...) in >> something like this. >> >> Can I ask why use VMware instead of e.g. a liveCD or Knoppix type >> arrangement? > > Um, I dunno, VMware is the technology that Lincoln told me about--I've > done virtually no research other than to try it out and find that it > works. The other day I was running a linux host while listen to iTunes > running inside of a Windows guest streaming from my wife's Mac. The > ability to easily move between a host OS and the guest VM is pretty > appealing. > > I guess one thing I like about VMware is the ease of creation. If I > create a VM that has chado and GBrowse installed in it, and someone else > wants to add Apollo, all they have to do is get my VM, add it and resave > it (at least in theory, that I haven't tried out). > > Scott > >> Ian >> >> >> >> Scott Cain wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> Recently, the people in my lab have been experimenting a lot with VMware >>> for creating virtual machines. I am excited about the potential uses >>> for these virtual machines for several purposes, among them the ability >>> to create a consistent platform for teaching (like giving a classroom a >>> disk with the VMware player and a linux VM with GBrowse preinstalled to >>> give a tutorial), and for creating virtual machines that could be used >>> as a 'test server' that people interested in GMOD software could get and >>> try out without having to set up a server to do it. That is what this >>> email is about. >>> >>> My goal is two-fold: first I am looking for volunteers. If anybody >>> would like to under take the task of creating a virtual machine and >>> populate it with GMOD software and sample data, I would be thrilled to >>> give guidance and moral support. >>> >>> Second, I want to get feedback on what should be installed. There is >>> both the question of sample data and software. Here are my thoughts so >>> far: >>> >>> Chado and related core components >>> XORT >>> GBrowse >>> Apollo >>> CMap >>> Turnkey/gmod-web >>> BLAST graphic viewer >>> >>> Also, there are some things 'on the bubble' that I haven't decided >>> whether they should be installed: >>> >>> Sybil >>> Flash GViewer >>> Textpresso >>> BioMart >>> DAS2 server >>> >>> Any thoughts on these? >>> >>> Thanks for your time, >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT >>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your >>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash >>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gmod-gbrowse mailing list >>> Gmo...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-gbrowse >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT >> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your >> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash >> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmod-ajax mailing list >> Gmo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-ajax |
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From: Todd H. <ha...@cs...> - 2007-03-22 21:42:15
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Hi Scott, Ian - Here's my take on Knoppix/liveCD having just rolled out a VMWare virtualization project for WormBase. With a goal for creating an easy system for archiving as a well as a way for "bioinformatically naive" users to run WormBase locally I decided against knoppix for a number of reasons, in order of importance. I reserve the right to be completely wrong on any of these points since it's been almost a year since I touched knoppix. 1. Knoppix/liveCD approaches are limited to media size. WormBase was too big for a DVD. This might not be a limit for GMOD. 2. Networking. I couldn't figure out how to bridge knoppix to the host. 3. VMXs are easy and free to create and simple to use. The release of VMServer last fall now means that a licensed commercial copy of VMWare Workstation is not longer required to create VMXs. They run on Mac, Windows, and Linux very well with *almost* double-click simplicity. 4. Knoppix is most easily run from a CD, not the hard drive. This didn't allow for suitable performance of a WormBase application. 5. Knoppix isn't open-virtualization. It's a specific (Debian-based) distro of Linux. I wanted to run a different distribution. Todd On Mar 22, 2007, at 9:36 PM, Scott Cain wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 12:29 -0700, Ian Holmes wrote: >> Scott, this sounds great. >> >> I would love to see our ongoing extensions to GBrowse (Ajax, >> wiki...) in >> something like this. >> >> Can I ask why use VMware instead of e.g. a liveCD or Knoppix type >> arrangement? > > Um, I dunno, VMware is the technology that Lincoln told me about--I've > done virtually no research other than to try it out and find that it > works. The other day I was running a linux host while listen to > iTunes > running inside of a Windows guest streaming from my wife's Mac. The > ability to easily move between a host OS and the guest VM is pretty > appealing. > > I guess one thing I like about VMware is the ease of creation. If I > create a VM that has chado and GBrowse installed in it, and someone > else > wants to add Apollo, all they have to do is get my VM, add it and > resave > it (at least in theory, that I haven't tried out). > > Scott > >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> Scott Cain wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> Recently, the people in my lab have been experimenting a lot with >>> VMware >>> for creating virtual machines. I am excited about the potential >>> uses >>> for these virtual machines for several purposes, among them the >>> ability >>> to create a consistent platform for teaching (like giving a >>> classroom a >>> disk with the VMware player and a linux VM with GBrowse >>> preinstalled to >>> give a tutorial), and for creating virtual machines that could be >>> used >>> as a 'test server' that people interested in GMOD software could >>> get and >>> try out without having to set up a server to do it. That is what >>> this >>> email is about. >>> >>> My goal is two-fold: first I am looking for volunteers. If anybody >>> would like to under take the task of creating a virtual machine and >>> populate it with GMOD software and sample data, I would be >>> thrilled to >>> give guidance and moral support. >>> >>> Second, I want to get feedback on what should be installed. There is >>> both the question of sample data and software. Here are my >>> thoughts so >>> far: >>> >>> Chado and related core components >>> XORT >>> GBrowse >>> Apollo >>> CMap >>> Turnkey/gmod-web >>> BLAST graphic viewer >>> >>> Also, there are some things 'on the bubble' that I haven't decided >>> whether they should be installed: >>> >>> Sybil >>> Flash GViewer >>> Textpresso >>> BioMart >>> DAS2 server >>> >>> Any thoughts on these? >>> >>> Thanks for your time, >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT >>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to >>> share your >>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash >>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php? >>> page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gmod-gbrowse mailing list >>> Gmo...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-gbrowse >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT >> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to >> share your >> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash >> http://www.techsay.com/default.php? >> page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmod-ajax mailing list >> Gmo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-ajax > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Scott Cain, Ph. D. > cai...@gm... > GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) > 216-392-3087 > Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to > share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php? > page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV________________________________ > _______________ > Gmod-gbrowse mailing list > Gmo...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-gbrowse |
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From: Ian H. <ih...@be...> - 2007-03-22 21:44:43
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Todd -- makes sense -- thanks for the info Ian Todd Harris wrote: > Hi Scott, Ian - > > Here's my take on Knoppix/liveCD having just rolled out a VMWare > virtualization project for WormBase. > > With a goal for creating an easy system for archiving as a well as a way > for "bioinformatically naive" users to run WormBase locally I decided > against knoppix for a number of reasons, in order of importance. I > reserve the right to be completely wrong on any of these points since > it's been almost a year since I touched knoppix. > > 1. Knoppix/liveCD approaches are limited to media size. > > WormBase was too big for a DVD. This might not be a limit for GMOD. > > 2. Networking. I couldn't figure out how to bridge knoppix to the host. > > 3. VMXs are easy and free to create and simple to use. > > The release of VMServer last fall now means that a licensed commercial > copy of VMWare Workstation is not longer required to create VMXs. They > run on Mac, Windows, and Linux very well with *almost* double-click > simplicity. > > 4. Knoppix is most easily run from a CD, not the hard drive. This > didn't allow for suitable performance of a WormBase application. > > 5. Knoppix isn't open-virtualization. It's a specific (Debian-based) > distro of Linux. I wanted to run a different distribution. > > Todd > > > On Mar 22, 2007, at 9:36 PM, Scott Cain wrote: > >> On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 12:29 -0700, Ian Holmes wrote: >>> Scott, this sounds great. >>> >>> I would love to see our ongoing extensions to GBrowse (Ajax, wiki...) in >>> something like this. >>> >>> Can I ask why use VMware instead of e.g. a liveCD or Knoppix type >>> arrangement? >> >> Um, I dunno, VMware is the technology that Lincoln told me about--I've >> done virtually no research other than to try it out and find that it >> works. The other day I was running a linux host while listen to iTunes >> running inside of a Windows guest streaming from my wife's Mac. The >> ability to easily move between a host OS and the guest VM is pretty >> appealing. >> >> I guess one thing I like about VMware is the ease of creation. If I >> create a VM that has chado and GBrowse installed in it, and someone else >> wants to add Apollo, all they have to do is get my VM, add it and resave >> it (at least in theory, that I haven't tried out). >> >> Scott >> >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> >>> Scott Cain wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Recently, the people in my lab have been experimenting a lot with >>>> VMware >>>> for creating virtual machines. I am excited about the potential uses >>>> for these virtual machines for several purposes, among them the ability >>>> to create a consistent platform for teaching (like giving a classroom a >>>> disk with the VMware player and a linux VM with GBrowse preinstalled to >>>> give a tutorial), and for creating virtual machines that could be used >>>> as a 'test server' that people interested in GMOD software could get >>>> and >>>> try out without having to set up a server to do it. That is what this >>>> email is about. >>>> >>>> My goal is two-fold: first I am looking for volunteers. If anybody >>>> would like to under take the task of creating a virtual machine and >>>> populate it with GMOD software and sample data, I would be thrilled to >>>> give guidance and moral support. >>>> >>>> Second, I want to get feedback on what should be installed. There is >>>> both the question of sample data and software. Here are my thoughts so >>>> far: >>>> >>>> Chado and related core components >>>> XORT >>>> GBrowse >>>> Apollo >>>> CMap >>>> Turnkey/gmod-web >>>> BLAST graphic viewer >>>> >>>> Also, there are some things 'on the bubble' that I haven't decided >>>> whether they should be installed: >>>> >>>> Sybil >>>> Flash GViewer >>>> Textpresso >>>> BioMart >>>> DAS2 server >>>> >>>> Any thoughts on these? >>>> >>>> Thanks for your time, >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT >>>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to >>>> share your >>>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash >>>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Gmod-gbrowse mailing list >>>> Gmo...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-gbrowse >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT >>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to >>> share your >>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash >>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gmod-ajax mailing list >>> Gmo...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-ajax >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Scott Cain, Ph. D. cai...@gm... >> GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 >> Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT >> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to >> share your >> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash >> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV_______________________________________________ >> >> Gmod-gbrowse mailing list >> Gmo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-gbrowse |
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From: andy l. \(RI\) <and...@bb...> - 2007-03-22 21:22:32
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>=20
> Can I ask why use VMware instead of e.g. a liveCD or Knoppix=20
> type arrangement?
In our experience there are several advantages and one disadvantage to
using VMWare.
As Scott has mentioned, the ability to create and distribute VMWare
images is a significant plus, although the images are (or can be) large
and take time to move around even on a LAN. Another significant plus is
the ability to take snapshots and rollback to them in the event of a
disaster (or other reason). For example, you could set up a group of
machines, run a course that involved all the users installing stuff
within the machine and then roll each machine back in a matter of
seconds to restore each virtual machine to its pristine state ready for
the next group. I often use a VM to try out a new configuration safe in
the knowledge that I can go back to where I started with *no* pain at
all.
It is possible to run the virtual machines as separate servers (i.e.
separate from the host OS IP address) too, although our sysadmins are
not keen on us doing that using DHCP-allocated addresses for some reason
which makes our management a bit harder (we have to configue each
machine with a unique hard-coded IP address which makes the distribution
more complicated than it should be).
With the VMPlayer, there is also no need to buy licenses for every
client machine either, so the costs are now pretty reasonable.
The main disadvantage in our hands is performance. I get reasonable
performance (as good as I would expect given the processor) on my cra**y
laptop, but moving the same VM onto a higher specced desktop machine
does not - in our experience - give a proportionate increase in
performance. I have no idea why this should be the case.
Later,
Andy
-------------
Yada, yada, yada...
Roslin Institute is a company limited by guarantee, registered in
Scotland (registered number SC157100) and a Scottish Charity (registered
number SC023592). Our registered office is at Roslin, Midlothian, EH25
9PS. VAT registration number 847380013.
The information contained in this e-mail (including any attachments) is
confidential and is intended for the use of the addressee only. The
opinions expressed within this e-mail (including any attachments) are
the opinions of the sender and do not necessarily constitute those of
Roslin Institute (Edinburgh) ("the Institute") unless specifically
stated by a sender who is duly authorised to do so on behalf of the
Institute.
=20
|
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From: Lincoln S. <ls...@cs...> - 2007-03-23 15:57:07
|
Hi,
David Hinds gave me a stripped down VMPlayer image that includes a running
gbrowse with human gene annotations. Compressed the whole thing was just 200
M, and performance is good enough to make a compelling demo. It is
configured with two virtual disks -- one for the base system, and one to
hold the mysql databases; the idea is that the user will add his own data to
the virtual disk. I'd be happy to provide this to anyone as a starting
place.
Lincoln
On 3/22/07, andy law (RI) <and...@bb...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Can I ask why use VMware instead of e.g. a liveCD or Knoppix
> > type arrangement?
>
>
> In our experience there are several advantages and one disadvantage to
> using VMWare.
>
> As Scott has mentioned, the ability to create and distribute VMWare
> images is a significant plus, although the images are (or can be) large
> and take time to move around even on a LAN. Another significant plus is
> the ability to take snapshots and rollback to them in the event of a
> disaster (or other reason). For example, you could set up a group of
> machines, run a course that involved all the users installing stuff
> within the machine and then roll each machine back in a matter of
> seconds to restore each virtual machine to its pristine state ready for
> the next group. I often use a VM to try out a new configuration safe in
> the knowledge that I can go back to where I started with *no* pain at
> all.
>
> It is possible to run the virtual machines as separate servers (i.e.
> separate from the host OS IP address) too, although our sysadmins are
> not keen on us doing that using DHCP-allocated addresses for some reason
> which makes our management a bit harder (we have to configue each
> machine with a unique hard-coded IP address which makes the distribution
> more complicated than it should be).
>
> With the VMPlayer, there is also no need to buy licenses for every
> client machine either, so the costs are now pretty reasonable.
>
>
> The main disadvantage in our hands is performance. I get reasonable
> performance (as good as I would expect given the processor) on my cra**y
> laptop, but moving the same VM onto a higher specced desktop machine
> does not - in our experience - give a proportionate increase in
> performance. I have no idea why this should be the case.
>
>
> Later,
>
> Andy
>
> -------------
> Yada, yada, yada...
>
> Roslin Institute is a company limited by guarantee, registered in
> Scotland (registered number SC157100) and a Scottish Charity (registered
> number SC023592). Our registered office is at Roslin, Midlothian, EH25
> 9PS. VAT registration number 847380013.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail (including any attachments) is
> confidential and is intended for the use of the addressee only. The
> opinions expressed within this e-mail (including any attachments) are
> the opinions of the sender and do not necessarily constitute those of
> Roslin Institute (Edinburgh) ("the Institute") unless specifically
> stated by a sender who is duly authorised to do so on behalf of the
> Institute.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> Gmod-devel mailing list
> Gmo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gmod-devel
>
--
Lincoln D. Stein
Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
1 Bungtown Road
Cold Spring Harbor, NY 11724
(516) 367-8380 (voice)
(516) 367-8389 (fax)
FOR URGENT MESSAGES & SCHEDULING,
PLEASE CONTACT MY ASSISTANT,
SANDRA MICHELSEN, AT mic...@cs...
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