Menu
▾
▴
gl4java-development — development for GL4Java
You can subscribe to this list here.
| 2000 |
Jan
|
Feb
|
Mar
|
Apr
|
May
|
Jun
|
Jul
|
Aug
|
Sep
|
Oct
|
Nov
(2) |
Dec
(2) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2001 |
Jan
|
Feb
(12) |
Mar
(2) |
Apr
(5) |
May
(1) |
Jun
|
Jul
|
Aug
|
Sep
|
Oct
(3) |
Nov
|
Dec
|
| 2002 |
Jan
|
Feb
|
Mar
(1) |
Apr
(3) |
May
|
Jun
|
Jul
|
Aug
|
Sep
|
Oct
|
Nov
|
Dec
|
| 2003 |
Jan
|
Feb
(9) |
Mar
|
Apr
(8) |
May
|
Jun
|
Jul
(3) |
Aug
|
Sep
|
Oct
|
Nov
(2) |
Dec
|
| 2005 |
Jan
|
Feb
|
Mar
|
Apr
|
May
|
Jun
|
Jul
|
Aug
(3) |
Sep
|
Oct
|
Nov
|
Dec
|
|
From: Max G. <gi...@ye...> - 2005-08-23 20:05:59
|
luciano Fagundes wrote: > I'm looking for gl4java 2.8.2 in order to compile >the npsnetv platform. I'm having a hard time to find >it becuase jausoft is no longer available. Is there >anywhere else that I can download that version? > > You can find mirrors of both Sven's site and Sourceforge.net project at ftp://yellowhedgehog.com/java_3d/gl4java/. Regards, Max |
|
From: Pepijn V. E. <pep...@lu...> - 2005-08-23 15:29:57
|
Hi Luciano, I might havethe binaries lying around somewhere, though I'm not sure exactly which version it was. If you want I can try to find this one. The alternative is to build a release yourself from the CVS repository since the sourceforge site is still up (http://gl4java.sf.net)Regards, Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt > Hello Folks > > I'm looking for gl4java 2.8.2 in order to compile > the npsnetv platform. I'm having a hard time to find > it becuase jausoft is no longer available. Is there > anywhere else that I can download that version? > > Thanks in advance > > Luciano Fagundes > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle > Practices Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * > Testing & QA Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * > http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > _______________________________________________ > Gl4java-development mailing list > Gl4...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development |
|
From: luciano F. <luc...@ya...> - 2005-08-23 12:54:34
|
Hello Folks
I'm looking for gl4java 2.8.2 in order to compile
the npsnetv platform. I'm having a hard time to find
it becuase jausoft is no longer available. Is there
anywhere else that I can download that version?
Thanks in advance
Luciano Fagundes
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
|
|
From: Kenneth B. R. <kbr...@al...> - 2003-11-15 09:04:56
|
> I like to know if it is possible to use > NVIDIAs cg shader or any other > shader language extension with your > opengl bindings. > jogl seems to support that, but I am not sure > if you do? > I just try to decide which bindings I should use > for my project. Thanks a lot. GL4Java doesn't support Cg or the vertex or fragment program extensions. Your best bet is to use JOGL. -Ken |
|
From: kristian <tom...@gm...> - 2003-11-15 03:57:12
|
hi, I like to know if it is possible to use NVIDIAs cg shader or any other shader language extension with your opengl bindings. jogl seems to support that, but I am not sure if you do? I just try to decide which bindings I should use for my project. Thanks a lot. cheers, kristian |
|
From: Sven G. <sgo...@ja...> - 2003-07-06 08:59:32
|
=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 cvs anonymous checkout: cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/gl4java login just hit return cvs -z3 -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/gl4java c= o Jungle3D +++ cvs developer checkout: CVSROOT=3DU...@cv...:/cvsroot/gl4java export CVSROOT CVS_RSH=3Dssh export CVS_RSH cvs -z3 co Jungle3D +++ the new ml regarding jungle3d is: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-jungle3d-dev so no more bothering messages will appear at gl4...@li...ur= ceforge.net regarding jungle3d .. ;-) +++ have a nice sunny sunday cheers, sven =2D --=20 health & wealth mailto:sgo...@ja... www : http://www.jausoft.com ; pgp: http://www.jausoft.com/gpg/ voice : +49-5121-999600 ; fax : +49-5121-999602 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/B+TpHdOA30NoFAARAh0tAJwPXOGg+uCOiaSHURa4kpyNmUu78gCfXI6z R66lvz8hrVn7FSIogJ1R3lA=3D =3D2t/c =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
|
From: Sven G. <sgo...@ja...> - 2003-07-06 08:36:37
|
=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =46AQ: =2D - locations of jogl sources, website ? =2D - license of jogl ? =2D - joining forces within an lgpl license ? =2D - joining forces within an gl4java2 or jungle3d (look at cvs -> gl4java= =2Esourceforge.net) thx, sven =2D --=20 health & wealth mailto:sgo...@ja... www : http://www.jausoft.com ; pgp: http://www.jausoft.com/gpg/ voice : +49-5121-999600 ; fax : +49-5121-999602 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/B9+OHdOA30NoFAARAkUIAKCnCLeCU2Cjri1I6DlJ0Ncrkx0kkgCglcoN ycZejde/1vGlqI5sH09lhNw=3D =3DyM/H =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
|
From: Sven G. <sgo...@ja...> - 2003-07-05 20:05:33
|
=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 dear friends, i have checked in 1st=20 - not compile clean - not finished designed =09 Jungle3D ;-) this is my proposal of a new design, docs included, new file hierarchy etc. javadoc can be created via ant build.xml .. i will add all gl4java2 devs. to the jungle3d dev list .., i hope this won't bother you .. i would like to discuss the docs, design etc there .. later, sven=09 =2D --=20 health & wealth mailto:sgo...@ja... www : http://www.jausoft.com ; pgp: http://www.jausoft.com/gpg/ voice : +49-5121-999600 ; fax : +49-5121-999602 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/By9+HdOA30NoFAARArolAJ0dl1Ywqihpky0lZdZGnMaDr7tA1ACgu9Sq km8RFUqg+FnmASZWp+UCFgc=3D =3DpXNJ =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
|
From: kaffiene <kaf...@xt...> - 2003-04-29 00:14:33
|
Hi There, I tried to contact Sven via SF to become a gl4java developer (I wanted to implement the outstanding feature request for a start) but got no response. Is there any way to go forward with developing the project or should I just grab the code and hack on my own? I'd like to see gl4java make some progress but it seems stagnant at the moment. Cheers, Peter. |
|
From: Pepijn V. E. <pep...@lu...> - 2003-04-21 18:49:00
|
I agree that the example program on their site seems a little strange. I think they tried to make the binding as close to the C api as possible. Anyway, I'll take a look at it when I have some time. Maybe next weekend. Pepijn On maandag, apr 21, 2003, at 15:12 Europe/Brussels, aNt wrote: > I found lwjgl a bit of a mess when it came to there openal bindings. > Maybe I should take a second look. It would be nice to have a separate > openal package mind u. > > It took me days to get the all lwjgl openal to work. Messy it seems.. > if > u are up for making an OpenAL in the style of GL4Java that would be > great!. I don't mind making some audio file loaders to pass to OpenAL. > > So would u be up for it? AL4Java of the GL4Java project? I am not a > C/C++ dude, just a 'not to bad' Java geeza ;) > > Tops > > aNt > > ---Original Message----- > From: gl4...@li... > [mailto:gl4...@li...] On Behalf Of > Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt > Sent: 21 April 2003 09:31 > To: gl4...@li... > Subject: Re: [Gl4java-development] RE: back on track ;-) > > I was thinking of making a quick openal binding when I stumbled upon > the lwjgl project. They already have a working OpenAL binding > (http://java-game-lib.sourceforge.net/). This project also contains an > opengl binding, however the glu binding is still incomplete. > > Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt > > On zaterdag, apr 19, 2003, at 16:38 Europe/Brussels, aNt wrote: > >> >> Well its been a while dude.. >> >> If u is back then I guess I should get back into making some more >> GL4Java stuff also. Lets Rock and Roll. >> >> Anyone want to add OpenAL to the package? GL4Java * AL4Java would > bring >> us upto date.. but I guess fixing some now known bugs is first on the >> list :). >> >> Tops - nice to hear u are alive.... >> >> aNt >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek >> Welcome to geek heaven. >> http://thinkgeek.com/sf >> _______________________________________________ >> Gl4java-development mailing list >> Gl4...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development >> > |
|
From: aNt <an...@to...> - 2003-04-21 13:13:00
|
I found lwjgl a bit of a mess when it came to there openal bindings. Maybe I should take a second look. It would be nice to have a separate openal package mind u. It took me days to get the all lwjgl openal to work. Messy it seems.. if u are up for making an OpenAL in the style of GL4Java that would be great!. I don't mind making some audio file loaders to pass to OpenAL. So would u be up for it? AL4Java of the GL4Java project? I am not a C/C++ dude, just a 'not to bad' Java geeza ;) Tops aNt ---Original Message----- From: gl4...@li... [mailto:gl4...@li...] On Behalf Of Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt Sent: 21 April 2003 09:31 To: gl4...@li... Subject: Re: [Gl4java-development] RE: back on track ;-) I was thinking of making a quick openal binding when I stumbled upon the lwjgl project. They already have a working OpenAL binding (http://java-game-lib.sourceforge.net/). This project also contains an opengl binding, however the glu binding is still incomplete. Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt On zaterdag, apr 19, 2003, at 16:38 Europe/Brussels, aNt wrote: > > Well its been a while dude.. > > If u is back then I guess I should get back into making some more > GL4Java stuff also. Lets Rock and Roll. > > Anyone want to add OpenAL to the package? GL4Java * AL4Java would bring > us upto date.. but I guess fixing some now known bugs is first on the > list :). > > Tops - nice to hear u are alive.... > > aNt > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Gl4java-development mailing list > Gl4...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development > |
|
From: Pepijn V. E. <pep...@lu...> - 2003-04-21 12:03:06
|
A library for 3d positional audio. http://www.openal.org/home/ It's structure is very similar to opengl. Pepijn On maandag, apr 21, 2003, at 12:39 Europe/Brussels, Jens G=FCnther = wrote: > what is openAl ? > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Gl4java-development mailing list > Gl4...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development > |
|
From: <jen...@ag...> - 2003-04-21 10:39:54
|
what is openAl ? |
|
From: Pepijn V. E. <pep...@lu...> - 2003-04-21 09:31:49
|
I was thinking of making a quick openal binding when I stumbled upon the lwjgl project. They already have a working OpenAL binding (http://java-game-lib.sourceforge.net/). This project also contains an opengl binding, however the glu binding is still incomplete. Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt On zaterdag, apr 19, 2003, at 16:38 Europe/Brussels, aNt wrote: > > Well its been a while dude.. > > If u is back then I guess I should get back into making some more > GL4Java stuff also. Lets Rock and Roll. > > Anyone want to add OpenAL to the package? GL4Java * AL4Java would bring > us upto date.. but I guess fixing some now known bugs is first on the > list :). > > Tops - nice to hear u are alive.... > > aNt > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Gl4java-development mailing list > Gl4...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development > |
|
From: aNt <an...@to...> - 2003-04-19 14:38:42
|
Well its been a while dude.. If u is back then I guess I should get back into making some more GL4Java stuff also. Lets Rock and Roll. Anyone want to add OpenAL to the package? GL4Java * AL4Java would bring us upto date.. but I guess fixing some now known bugs is first on the list :). Tops - nice to hear u are alive.... aNt |
|
From: Pepijn V. E. <pep...@lu...> - 2003-04-15 12:44:25
|
I've made a first attempt at cleaning up (IMHO) the makefile. The main difference is that the makefile maintains two seperate source trees. One containing the original handwritten source code and one containing the full source code (preprocessed files, concatenated files, etc). The makefile copies source files over from one tree to the other, calling sed, cat, ... where necessary. I've got this system up and running on windows (still depends on vc++), linux and solaris(sparc). I haven't been able to merge the OS X version yet. I've dropped support for ms jdirect in my version (because it isn't really relevant for my work) and the makefile doesn't generate any documentation yet. Is anyone interested in merging my work with the main source tree or should I just keep it a local project for internal use? Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt |
|
From: Sven G. <sgo...@ja...> - 2003-02-27 22:14:33
|
=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hello=20 after a long time .. i have fun again so i guess, i want myself being committed again to this project ;-)) nice to read, that you are interesting in a big cleanup so lets branch .. more to come, but 1st of all, i have to read this list 1st 8-] cheers, sven =2D --=20 health & wealth mailto:sgo...@ja... www : http://www.jausoft.com ; pgp: http://www.jausoft.com/gpg/ voice : +49-5121-999600 ; fax : +49-5121-999602 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE+Xo2jHdOA30NoFAARAlXBAJ0W/ZXyp2cF7g0z3FjPEa9DIbkPvACgl5WW GyZwWqslogLAX+UTPfzjCdQ=3D =3DB2gf =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
|
From: Theodore W. <twi...@ya...> - 2003-02-27 17:44:36
|
It seams that this list has risen from the grave :) I don't know crap about OpenGL but I have a bit of JVM & program analysis experience. On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 06:20 PM, Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt wrote: > It seems to be pretty dead... As far as I can see from the gl4java > site development has also more or less come to a stop (last binary is > from 2001 iirc). > I have the intention to make a derived library of gl4java with the > following goals: > - Clean up the build process > - Drop pre jdk 1.3 support in favor of the cleaner JAWT interfaces > - Add opengl 1.4 support > I Agree all of the above. > If anyone feels like helping once I get this project started, it would > be more than welcome :) I think that it should be done with in gl4java. > > Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt > > On woensdag, feb 26, 2003, at 23:36 Europe/Brussels, Theodore Witkamp > wrote: > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies! >> Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships. >> Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more. >> www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp >> _______________________________________________ >> Gl4java-development mailing list >> Gl4...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development >> > <PGP.sig> |
|
From: Max G. <gi...@ye...> - 2003-02-27 13:56:46
|
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt wrote:
> Max Gilead wrote:
> > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt wrote:
> > Separate cvs repository is good idea for code reorganization. It sounded
> > like you wanted to start completely separate project.
> Is it possible to do this within the context of sourceforge?
Correction - separated *module* inside the same repository. That can be
done without problems on SF.
[ Part 1.2, Image/GIF 16KB. ]
[ Cannot display this part. Press "V" then "S" to save in a file. ]
This is how I see images now so I'll send another mail later when I get to
graphical terminal ;-)
Bye,
Max
|
|
From: Pepijn V. E. <pep...@lu...> - 2003-02-27 13:48:51
|
Max Gilead wrote: > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt wrote: > >>I agree that this would be great if it is possible. My first goal of >>cleaning up the build stuff requires a lot of reorganizing in the code >>base. I realize that stuff like code style, directory structures, etc >>are mostly personal taste, which is why I had the idea of creating a >>seperate cvs repository. > > Separate cvs repository is good idea for code reorganization. It sounded > like you wanted to start completely separate project. > Is it possible to do this within the context of sourceforge? > >>the only parts that belong in the cvs repository are those >>bits that are not autogenerated (or at least not the intermediate >>files). Autogenerated files would be dumped in some temporary directory >>under the build dir and cleaned up when they are no longer required. > > Aggreed with one exception: CVS should contain files which are generated > using external/nonstandard tools. Headers etc. should not be included but > output from separate parsers, generators etc. should be. > Just so we understand each other correctly, in the attached image the green boxes are what I would keep. The red is generated at build time or not necessary. Which parts would you keep? I hope my drawing is more or less correct... Pepijn > >>I don't have any experience with gcj, so I have no idea how easy it >>would be to support it. What other java implementations did you have in >>mind? > > Kaffe, ORP for example. But compiled code would be priority IMHO. I've > done some work with gcj and it's nice and all except its support for newer > libraries/language features is rather incomplete. However support for it > is important. > > >>Do you know if Sven has any design documents of the library? > > Don't know, sorry. > > Regards, > Max > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! > http://www.vasoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > Gl4java-development mailing list > Gl4...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development > |
|
From: Max G. <gi...@ye...> - 2003-02-27 12:29:52
|
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt wrote: > I agree that this would be great if it is possible. My first goal of > cleaning up the build stuff requires a lot of reorganizing in the code > base. I realize that stuff like code style, directory structures, etc > are mostly personal taste, which is why I had the idea of creating a > seperate cvs repository. Separate cvs repository is good idea for code reorganization. It sounded like you wanted to start completely separate project. > the only parts that belong in the cvs repository are those > bits that are not autogenerated (or at least not the intermediate > files). Autogenerated files would be dumped in some temporary directory > under the build dir and cleaned up when they are no longer required. Aggreed with one exception: CVS should contain files which are generated using external/nonstandard tools. Headers etc. should not be included but output from separate parsers, generators etc. should be. > I don't have any experience with gcj, so I have no idea how easy it > would be to support it. What other java implementations did you have in > mind? Kaffe, ORP for example. But compiled code would be priority IMHO. I've done some work with gcj and it's nice and all except its support for newer libraries/language features is rather incomplete. However support for it is important. > Do you know if Sven has any design documents of the library? Don't know, sorry. Regards, Max |
|
From: Pepijn V. E. <pep...@lu...> - 2003-02-27 11:55:04
|
Max Gilead wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt wrote:
>
>>I have the intention to make a derived library of gl4java with the
>
> While continuing development of gl4java is obviously noble goal and
> really a must, I believe it should be done, if possible, within current
> gl4java project. I'm sure Sven will support this effort and arrange things
> accordingly.
>
I agree that this would be great if it is possible. My first goal of
cleaning up the build stuff requires a lot of reorganizing in the code
base. I realize that stuff like code style, directory structures, etc
are mostly personal taste, which is why I had the idea of creating a
seperate cvs repository. If can work out some plan on how to continue I
would be more than happy to just continue the on the existing project...
The structure i had in mind was something like this
gl4java
|- src
| |- c
| | |- windows
| | |- linux
| | |- mac
| | |- ...
| |- java
|- build
|- tmp
In my opinion the only parts that belong in the cvs repository are those
bits that are not autogenerated (or at least not the intermediate
files). Autogenerated files would be dumped in some temporary directory
under the build dir and cleaned up when they are no longer required.
>
>>following goals:
>>- Clean up the build process
>>- Drop pre jdk 1.3 support in favor of the cleaner JAWT interfaces
>
> Aggreed if it won't break additional goal, see below.
>
>
>>- Add opengl 1.4 support
>>If anyone feels like helping once I get this project started, it would
>>be more than welcome :)
>
> Count me in.
>
> I'd also suggest adding two more goals:
> - Adding support for free Java implementations (GCJ being most important)
I don't have any experience with gcj, so I have no idea how easy it
would be to support it. What other java implementations did you have in
mind?
Where's extra goal number two btw? ;)
Do you know if Sven has any design documents of the library?
Pepijn
>
> Regards,
> Max
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.NET email is sponsored by:
> SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See!
> http://www.vasoftware.com
> _______________________________________________
> Gl4java-development mailing list
> Gl4...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development
>
|
|
From: Max G. <gi...@ye...> - 2003-02-27 10:58:17
|
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt wrote: > I have the intention to make a derived library of gl4java with the While continuing development of gl4java is obviously noble goal and really a must, I believe it should be done, if possible, within current gl4java project. I'm sure Sven will support this effort and arrange things accordingly. > following goals: > - Clean up the build process > - Drop pre jdk 1.3 support in favor of the cleaner JAWT interfaces Aggreed if it won't break additional goal, see below. > - Add opengl 1.4 support > If anyone feels like helping once I get this project started, it would > be more than welcome :) Count me in. I'd also suggest adding two more goals: - Adding support for free Java implementations (GCJ being most important) Regards, Max |
|
From: Pepijn V. E. <pep...@lu...> - 2003-02-26 23:20:52
|
It seems to be pretty dead... As far as I can see from the gl4java site development has also more or less come to a stop (last binary is from 2001 iirc). I have the intention to make a derived library of gl4java with the following goals: - Clean up the build process - Drop pre jdk 1.3 support in favor of the cleaner JAWT interfaces - Add opengl 1.4 support If anyone feels like helping once I get this project started, it would be more than welcome :) Pepijn Van Eeckhoudt On woensdag, feb 26, 2003, at 23:36 Europe/Brussels, Theodore Witkamp wrote: > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies! > Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships. > Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more. > www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp > _______________________________________________ > Gl4java-development mailing list > Gl4...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gl4java-development > |
|
From: Theodore W. <twi...@ya...> - 2003-02-26 22:35:37
|
