Thread: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision detection pa tent]

SourceForge Headquarters 225 Broadway Suite 1600 San Diego, CA 92101 +1 (858) 422-6466

Hi,

Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?  Can U.S. patents
effect my work?

Best regards,
Matt.

US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various international
agreements which effectively propagate patents and other intellectual
property rights, though I'm not certain of the details. A practical example
is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games, which is still actively
enforced.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> To: 'gda...@li...'
> Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> detection
> pa tent]
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?  
> Can U.S. patents
> effect my work?
> 
> Best regards,
> Matt.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> 

> A practical example is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games,
which is still actively enforced.

I never knew they patented that!  Amazing... and scary.  Does anyone have a
link to this one?

However, although I know very little about patents, whenever I do see them
listed they are usually listed for each country individually, suggesting
they need to be applied for separately for each country - can anyone confirm
whether a patent filed in the US can in any way affect other countries
unless specifically applied for there too?
--
gl

> US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various international
> agreements which effectively propagate patents and other intellectual
> property rights, though I'm not certain of the details.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision
> > detection
> > pa tent]
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?
> > Can U.S. patents
> > effect my work?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Matt.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
>

On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, gl wrote:

> > A practical example is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games,
> which is still actively enforced.
> 
> I never knew they patented that!  Amazing... and scary.  Does anyone have a
> link to this one?

There is a story from back when the 'PACman' lawsuits were being bounced around
and *everyone* with a pacman clone was being sued (rightfully in that case
I think).

Philips were one of the people being sued - and during the first meetings
on the subject, they dug out an old Magnavox patent that effectively covers
all synthetically generated video images used for the purposes of games playing.

The lawsuit was hastily dropped.

Evidently that's one patent that they never try to enforce - but it is evident
that they do employ it defensively.

  :-)

Be VERY afraid!

Steve Baker                      (817)619-2657 (Vox/Vox-Mail)
L3Com/Link Simulation & Training (817)619-2466 (Fax)
Work: sj...@li...           http://www.link.com
Home: sjb...@ai...       http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1

The most annoying  thing about the Atari 'ghost car' patent, is that Midway
(who now own it) ACTIVELY enforce it,
I know because 2 years the game we had just released (Powerboat Racing) was
hit with it, we had a mode with
a recorded ghost boat to race again. Midway told us we had infringed there
patent and could they have some
money, I never found our if we paid or if our publisher (Interplay) fought
them.

So now we never include ghost anything in any our race games.

The actual defination involves transparency (ghost like look), so if you do
include pre-recorded cars to race again
the visual image is very important. An lawyer thought that if we had made
the 'ghost' solid it wouldn't have affected
us, but we were released by this time.

Usual stuff, that I'm not a lawyer and my memory be going so name of
companies may be wrong etc
(I pretty sure Midway brought Atari though)

Be afraid, be very afraid
    Deano

Dean Calver,
Senior Games Programmer,
Promethean Designs Ltd.

----- Original Message -----
From: "gl" <gl...@nt...>
To: <gda...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision detection pa
tent]

> > A practical example is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games,
> which is still actively enforced.
>
> I never knew they patented that!  Amazing... and scary.  Does anyone have
a
> link to this one?
>
> However, although I know very little about patents, whenever I do see them
> listed they are usually listed for each country individually, suggesting
> they need to be applied for separately for each country - can anyone
confirm
> whether a patent filed in the US can in any way affect other countries
> unless specifically applied for there too?
> --
> gl
>
> > US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various
international
> > agreements which effectively propagate patents and other intellectual
> > property rights, though I'm not certain of the details.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision
> > > detection
> > > pa tent]
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?
> > > Can U.S. patents
> > > effect my work?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Matt.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > > GDA...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

what about companies like nintendo?
in mario kart 64 and a few others there is
a "ghost" mode.

peace,
akbar A.

-----Original Message-----
From: gda...@li...
[mailto:gda...@li...]On Behalf Of Dean
Calver
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 1:00 PM
To: gda...@li...
Subject: Re: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision detection
pa tent]

The most annoying  thing about the Atari 'ghost car' patent, is that Midway
(who now own it) ACTIVELY enforce it,
I know because 2 years the game we had just released (Powerboat Racing) was
hit with it, we had a mode with
a recorded ghost boat to race again. Midway told us we had infringed there
patent and could they have some
money, I never found our if we paid or if our publisher (Interplay) fought
them.

So now we never include ghost anything in any our race games.

The actual defination involves transparency (ghost like look), so if you do
include pre-recorded cars to race again
the visual image is very important. An lawyer thought that if we had made
the 'ghost' solid it wouldn't have affected
us, but we were released by this time.

Usual stuff, that I'm not a lawyer and my memory be going so name of
companies may be wrong etc
(I pretty sure Midway brought Atari though)

Be afraid, be very afraid
    Deano

Dean Calver,
Senior Games Programmer,
Promethean Designs Ltd.

----- Original Message -----
From: "gl" <gl...@nt...>
To: <gda...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision detection pa
tent]

> > A practical example is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games,
> which is still actively enforced.
>
> I never knew they patented that!  Amazing... and scary.  Does anyone have
a
> link to this one?
>
> However, although I know very little about patents, whenever I do see them
> listed they are usually listed for each country individually, suggesting
> they need to be applied for separately for each country - can anyone
confirm
> whether a patent filed in the US can in any way affect other countries
> unless specifically applied for there too?
> --
> gl
>
> > US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various
international
> > agreements which effectively propagate patents and other intellectual
> > property rights, though I'm not certain of the details.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision
> > > detection
> > > pa tent]
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?
> > > Can U.S. patents
> > > effect my work?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Matt.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > > GDA...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

_______________________________________________
GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
GDA...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

Wasn't the reason why there were two version of PGP was because of software
patents surrounding the RSA technology and that it only affected the US
version.  The international version was free of such restrictions.  Or am I
barking up the wrong tree?  Perhaps this is the wrong discussion forum - but
it worries me that my work here can be affected by a seemingly incompetent
US Patents department.

Regards,
Matt.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Warden [mailto:Pet...@vi...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 10:47
> To: gda...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> detection
> pa tent]
> 
> 
> US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various 
> international
> agreements which effectively propagate patents and other intellectual
> property rights, though I'm not certain of the details. A 
> practical example
> is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games, which is 
> still actively
> enforced.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> > detection
> > pa tent]
> > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?  
> > Can U.S. patents
> > effect my work?
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Matt.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> 

> Wasn't the reason why there were two version of PGP was because of
software
> ...
> it worries me that my work here can be affected by a seemingly incompetent
> US Patents department.

Worry no more... as we speak, our fine politician friends are talking about
allowing software (and technology) patents in the EU as well. So if all goes
wrong, we'll all be in the same boat in some years time :-(

Jim Offerman

Innovade
- designing the designer

> > Wasn't the reason why there were two version of PGP was because of
> software
> > ...
> > it worries me that my work here can be affected by a seemingly
incompetent
> > US Patents department.
>
> Worry no more... as we speak, our fine politician friends are talking
about
> allowing software (and technology) patents in the EU as well. So if all
goes
> wrong, we'll all be in the same boat in some years time :-(
>

If anybody doesnt know,there is a petition against EU software patents at:
http://petition.eurolinux.org/

David

http://www.dblack.btinternet.co.uk
ICQ #: 24402391
Mobile: (UK) 0778 7836188

On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Matthew Davies wrote:

> Wasn't the reason why there were two version of PGP was because of software
> patents surrounding the RSA technology and that it only affected the US
> version.  The international version was free of such restrictions.  Or am I
> barking up the wrong tree?  Perhaps this is the wrong discussion forum - but
> it worries me that my work here can be affected by a seemingly incompetent
> US Patents department.

I'm guessing that a cryptography technology would be treated as needing
an export license - because (technically) it's a military weapon!

The US has some nasty laws about exporting strong cryptography algorithms.

Steve Baker                      (817)619-2657 (Vox/Vox-Mail)
L3Com/Link Simulation & Training (817)619-2466 (Fax)
Work: sj...@li...           http://www.link.com
Home: sjb...@ai...       http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1

No the RSA algorithm was protected under the Beurea of Alcohol and
FireArms as an export controlled item. It was basically deemed critical
to national securtiy.
Kevin
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Matthew Davies wrote:

> Wasn't the reason why there were two version of PGP was because of software
> patents surrounding the RSA technology and that it only affected the US
> version.  The international version was free of such restrictions.  Or am I
> barking up the wrong tree?  Perhaps this is the wrong discussion forum - but
> it worries me that my work here can be affected by a seemingly incompetent
> US Patents department.
> 
> Regards,
> Matt.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Warden [mailto:Pet...@vi...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 10:47
> > To: gda...@li...
> > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> > detection
> > pa tent]
> > 
> > 
> > US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various 
> > international
> > agreements which effectively propagate patents and other intellectual
> > property rights, though I'm not certain of the details. A 
> > practical example
> > is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games, which is 
> > still actively
> > enforced.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> > > detection
> > > pa tent]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?  
> > > Can U.S. patents
> > > effect my work?
> > > 
> > > Best regards,
> > > Matt.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > > GDA...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> 

-- 

IIRC, not the algorithm itself, only implementations of it. Which is what makes it
even more bizarre to my mind, since anyone can easily implement it....

Jamie

Kevin Lackey wrote:

> No the RSA algorithm was protected under the Beurea of Alcohol and
> FireArms as an export controlled item. It was basically deemed critical
> to national securtiy.
> Kevin
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Matthew Davies wrote:
>
> > Wasn't the reason why there were two version of PGP was because of software
> > patents surrounding the RSA technology and that it only affected the US
> > version.  The international version was free of such restrictions.  Or am I
> > barking up the wrong tree?  Perhaps this is the wrong discussion forum - but
> > it worries me that my work here can be affected by a seemingly incompetent
> > US Patents department.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Matt.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Peter Warden [mailto:Pet...@vi...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 10:47
> > > To: gda...@li...
> > > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision
> > > detection
> > > pa tent]
> > >
> > >
> > > US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various
> > > international
> > > agreements which effectively propagate patents and other intellectual
> > > property rights, though I'm not certain of the details. A
> > > practical example
> > > is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games, which is
> > > still actively
> > > enforced.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > > > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > > > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision
> > > > detection
> > > > pa tent]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?
> > > > Can U.S. patents
> > > > effect my work?
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Matt.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > > > GDA...@li...
> > > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > > GDA...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> >
>
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

Actually, it's a matter of both with RSA. The encryption export laws have
shown to be a non-issue with open source projects, as you can simply provide
a server in norway or elsewhere for international downloads.

There is however some restrictions on the reference implimentation of RSA
that are about to expire as we speak.

So if you need to use RSA in your games, check out the FreeBSD and OpenBSD
projects, they both have found a legal path to using the rsa or independent
implimentations. In a few monhts, it won't be an issue.

Don't think so... The problem with PGP was down to the US encryption export
laws.  

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
Sent: 16 August 2000 11:06
To: 'gda...@li...'
Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision detection
pa tent]

Wasn't the reason why there were two version of PGP was because of software
patents surrounding the RSA technology and that it only affected the US
version.  The international version was free of such restrictions.  Or am I
barking up the wrong tree?  Perhaps this is the wrong discussion forum - but
it worries me that my work here can be affected by a seemingly incompetent
US Patents department.

Regards,
Matt.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Warden [mailto:Pet...@vi...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 10:47
> To: gda...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> detection
> pa tent]
> 
> 
> US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various 
> international
> agreements which effectively propagate patents and other intellectual
> property rights, though I'm not certain of the details. A 
> practical example
> is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games, which is 
> still actively
> enforced.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> > detection
> > pa tent]
> > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?  
> > Can U.S. patents
> > effect my work?
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Matt.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> 

_______________________________________________
GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
GDA...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

I've just been pointed at this link from another games list;
http://www.patentcafe.com/patents_etc_cafe/pat_faqs3.html

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gl [mailto:gl...@nt...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:14 AM
> To: gda...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> detection
> pa tent]
> 
> 
> > A practical example is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in 
> racing games,
> which is still actively enforced.
> 
> I never knew they patented that!  Amazing... and scary.  Does 
> anyone have a
> link to this one?
> 
> However, although I know very little about patents, whenever 
> I do see them
> listed they are usually listed for each country individually, 
> suggesting
> they need to be applied for separately for each country - can 
> anyone confirm
> whether a patent filed in the US can in any way affect other countries
> unless specifically applied for there too?
> --
> gl
> 
> > US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various 
> international
> > agreements which effectively propagate patents and other 
> intellectual
> > property rights, though I'm not certain of the details.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision
> > > detection
> > > pa tent]
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?
> > > Can U.S. patents
> > > effect my work?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Matt.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > > GDA...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> 

At 11:13 AM 8/16/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>> A practical example is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games,
>which is still actively enforced.
>
>I never knew they patented that!  Amazing... and scary.  Does anyone have a
>link to this one?

I found this on the US Patent page:

http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-1976-2000+0+972113+4+3+3
18762+OF+98+291+51+atari

Not only that, but there's some other atari patents on there which I find
pretty hard to believe.  Look at this one:

http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-1976-2000+0+972113+4+4+7
4061+OF+69+291+51+atari

Any other examples of wacky patents??

-Sam
______________________
Sam McGrath
sa...@dn...
http://www.dnai.com/~sammy
ICQ 5151160

From: "Sam McGrath" <sa...@dn...>
Subject: Re: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision detection pa
tent]
>
> Any other examples of wacky patents??

Oh there are lots of foolish patents out there. But keep in
mind getting the patent is only the first, and easiest, step.
If you cannot get the courts to agree with you or cannot
even afford to defend you calim in court then your patent
is worthless.
--
Alan Hurshman

Senior Programmer/Analyst

 > Any other examples of wacky patents??

http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05501650__

Its the patent that can be used to get at all ego stroking anal patent
people.

Conor Stokes

Sam McGrath <sa...@dn...> wrote:

> Not only that, but there's some other atari patents on there which
> I find pretty hard to believe.  Look at this one:
>
> http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-1976-2000+0+
> 972113+4+4+74061+OF+69+291+51+atari
>
> Any other examples of wacky patents??

Here's a pretty wacky one - there also seems to be a patent on
multiplayer (networked) games:

http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ilink4?INDEX+0+4572509+F

And multiplayer matchmaking services:

http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-ALL+0+988969+0+8+16511+F
+3+78+1+REF%2f4572509

And also on game consoles:

http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ilink4?INDEX+0+4126851+F
http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ilink4?INDEX+0+4034990+F

There's lots more if you look around a bit.

-Ben

--
Benbuck Nason
 "I gotta make tracks and take back my words 'cause everyone knows
     I didn't mean 'em, I eat em."  - Del the Funky Homosapien

For a really big list of ridiculous patents check this page!!!

http://www.invention.com/

First time I saw this page I thought it was a joke, then, as I read more
of the patants, I realized it was for real!!!

Then I found myself getting more and more angry at the whole patent
issue.!!!

Regards,
Steve

All opinions expressed are my own, not that of my employer.

-- 
Steve Clynes
sc...@ti...
"Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film."

While we're at it, you missed the best ever......
http://www.swin.edu.au/astronomy/pbourke/fun/patent/index.html

So far my favorite.

Pierre

----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Clynes <sc...@ti...>
To: <gda...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision detection pa
tent]

> For a really big list of ridiculous patents check this page!!!
>
> http://www.invention.com/
>
> First time I saw this page I thought it was a joke, then, as I read more
> of the patants, I realized it was for real!!!
>
> Then I found myself getting more and more angry at the whole patent
> issue.!!!
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>
> All opinions expressed are my own, not that of my employer.
>
> --
> Steve Clynes
> sc...@ti...
> "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film."
>
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

patents, pah!

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Davies <MD...@ac...>
To: 'gda...@li...'
<gda...@li...>
Date: 16 August 2000 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision detection
patent]

>Hi,
>
>Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?  Can U.S. patents
>effect my work?
>
>Best regards,
>Matt.
>
>_______________________________________________
>GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
>GDA...@li...
>http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

Definitely drifting off-topic, but I understood the PGP issue was to do with
US export restrictions on strong cryptography, rather than intellectual
property rights.
I am _definitely_ not a lawyer, but my understanding is that having a US
patent at a minimum stops any other countries granting a patent for the same
thing to someone else, so that the original patent holder can apply for the
patent internationally.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:06 AM
> To: 'gda...@li...'
> Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> detection
> pa tent]
> 
> 
> Wasn't the reason why there were two version of PGP was 
> because of software
> patents surrounding the RSA technology and that it only 
> affected the US
> version.  The international version was free of such 
> restrictions.  Or am I
> barking up the wrong tree?  Perhaps this is the wrong 
> discussion forum - but
> it worries me that my work here can be affected by a 
> seemingly incompetent
> US Patents department.
> 
> Regards,
> Matt.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Warden [mailto:Pet...@vi...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 10:47
> > To: gda...@li...
> > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> > detection
> > pa tent]
> > 
> > 
> > US patents can definitely affect us here, there are various 
> > international
> > agreements which effectively propagate patents and other 
> intellectual
> > property rights, though I'm not certain of the details. A 
> > practical example
> > is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in racing games, which is 
> > still actively
> > enforced.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matthew Davies [mailto:MD...@ac...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 9:50 AM
> > > To: 'gda...@li...'
> > > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> > > detection
> > > pa tent]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Well I work and live in the UK.  How does this effect me?  
> > > Can U.S. patents
> > > effect my work?
> > > 
> > > Best regards,
> > > Matt.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > > GDA...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> 

That second one is for Gauntlet of course. A great game, but patentable?
Then again, these are the people who patented the concept of a register that
scrolls the screen left by the value you write into it.

Tom Forsyth - Muckyfoot bloke.
Whizzing and pasting and pooting through the day.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam McGrath [mailto:sa...@dn...]
> Sent: 16 August 2000 11:49
> To: gda...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> detection
> pa tent]
> 
> 
> At 11:13 AM 8/16/2000 +0100, you wrote:
> >> A practical example is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in 
> racing games,
> >which is still actively enforced.
> >
> >I never knew they patented that!  Amazing... and scary.  
> Does anyone have a
> >link to this one?
> 
> I found this on the US Patent page:
> 
> http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-1976-2000+
0+972113+4+3+3
18762+OF+98+291+51+atari

Not only that, but there's some other atari patents on there which I find
pretty hard to believe.  Look at this one:

http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-1976-2000+0+972113+4+4+7
4061+OF+69+291+51+atari

Any other examples of wacky patents??

-Sam
______________________
Sam McGrath
sa...@dn...
http://www.dnai.com/~sammy
ICQ 5151160

_______________________________________________
GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
GDA...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

And then he scrolls down the page and sees that it states the reference to
hard drivin'

Doh!

Kim Pallister

We will find a way or we will make one.
                     - Hannibal

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Forsyth [mailto:to...@mu...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 4:18 AM
> To: gda...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> detection
> pa tent]
> 
> 
> That second one is for Gauntlet of course. A great game, but 
> patentable?
> Then again, these are the people who patented the concept of 
> a register that
> scrolls the screen left by the value you write into it.
> 
> Tom Forsyth - Muckyfoot bloke.
> Whizzing and pasting and pooting through the day.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sam McGrath [mailto:sa...@dn...]
> > Sent: 16 August 2000 11:49
> > To: gda...@li...
> > Subject: Re: [Algorithms] pissing in the well [was: Collision 
> > detection
> > pa tent]
> > 
> > 
> > At 11:13 AM 8/16/2000 +0100, you wrote:
> > >> A practical example is Atari's patent on 'ghost cars' in 
> > racing games,
> > >which is still actively enforced.
> > >
> > >I never knew they patented that!  Amazing... and scary.  
> > Does anyone have a
> > >link to this one?
> > 
> > I found this on the US Patent page:
> > 
> > http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-1976-2000+
> 0+972113+4+3+3
> 18762+OF+98+291+51+atari
> 
> Not only that, but there's some other atari patents on there 
> which I find
> pretty hard to believe.  Look at this one:
> 
> http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-1976-2000+
0+972113+4+4+7
4061+OF+69+291+51+atari

Any other examples of wacky patents??

-Sam
______________________
Sam McGrath
sa...@dn...
http://www.dnai.com/~sammy
ICQ 5151160

_______________________________________________
GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
GDA...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

_______________________________________________
GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
GDA...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list