Thread: RE: [Algorithms] Game Developer Salary
Brought to you by:
vexxed72
Menu
▾
▴
gdalgorithms-list
|
From: Sam M. <sa...@dn...> - 2000-09-09 22:12:58
|
Sorry for the off-topicness, but this list IS full of game developers and I don't know of a list which is used to discuss these topics. I found the article you mentioned, it's at http://www.voodooextreme.com/ask/askgrand.html#startingpayrates. Thanks, Sam At 04:49 PM 9/9/2000 -0500, you wrote: >a.) this is not a game salaray list. >b.) see above > >see www.gamasutra.com or do a search on www.google.com, there >was a survey done. >also brian hook wrote up a "long" article on going rates, etc.. >it should be archived somewhere on www.ve3d.net > >peace, >akbar A. > >EOT <end of topic> |
|
From: Scott, J. <JS...@ra...> - 2000-09-11 12:07:32
|
As an aside, if you want someone to stay loyal to your company, get a non US citizen. Brits are pretty good as they speak almost the same language. An employee under a visa is not going to move for anything less than a factor of 2 salary increase (or extreme unhappiness) because it is such a pain to get or renew a visa. They are also tied to the company, if you sack them, they have to return back to their country of origin. Cheers John -----Original Message----- From: Gavan Hood [mailto:gh...@si...] I would have to agree with you Scott, I have noticed that my salary in the US is higher than that quoted for Game companies, and we have the same level of complexity and challenges. I have also noticed varied reasons for low salaries, outside the Game industry it is often due to people that see quick one off apps made in RAD languages (VB etc) as being more bang for buck even though they spend hours trying to finish and fine the app which is where they would reaped huge benifits if they used a talented guy and a flexible language such as C /C++. In the Game Industry I have witnessed an attitude that IT companies also posses being, we are a cool company, our product is cool the best will sacrafice salary just be associated with us, sure that might work for a short period with a few people trying to upgrade thier skills but experienced guys just dodge them for obvious reasons. I wish I knew a solution, but I usually end up just steering clear of those who will not pay, hoping that one day I will find a couple of other experiences guys (10+ years expertise...) and make our own product, I think lots of people have that hope :-) Gavan |
|
From: Stephen J B. <sj...@li...> - 2000-09-11 12:45:46
|
On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Scott, John wrote: > As an aside, if you want someone to stay loyal to your company, get a non US > citizen. Brits are pretty good as they speak almost the same language. An > employee under a visa is not going to move for anything less than a factor > of 2 salary increase (or extreme unhappiness) because it is such a pain to > get or renew a visa. They are also tied to the company, if you sack them, > they have to return back to their country of origin. Grrrr, grumble...complain. Advice to any Brit who takes up this kind of a deal: Make sure you get a good salary at day #1 because you won't see a pay raise until you get your green card - and in some parts of the US, that's taking 6 years...also you are chained to that job - you really can't leave. ---- Science being insufficient - neither ancient protein species deficient. Steve Baker (817)619-2657 (Vox/Vox-Mail) L3Com/Link Simulation & Training (817)619-2466 (Fax) Work: sj...@li... http://www.link.com Home: sjb...@ai... http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1 |
|
From: Stefan B. <ste...@te...> - 2000-09-11 12:50:46
|
> As an aside, if you want someone to stay loyal to your company, > get a non US citizen. Brits are pretty good as they speak almost the same > language. "Almost the same language"... erhhhh!?? :) Reminds me of a friend who went to work for Digital Domain... One day in the shops this woman asks him where he's from - "Scotland" he says, "Oh really! But you speak such good English!". > An employee under a visa is not going to move for anything less than a factor > of 2 salary increase (or extreme unhappiness) because it is such a pain to > get or renew a visa. This is precisely why I opted not to go and work in the US. It's ridiculous. That and the fact that you only get 2wks paid holiday (seems to be standard, anyway). Sure you can get paid lots more (in theory, anyway), but I prefer the freedom I have within the EU. > They are also tied to the company, if you sack them, > they have to return back to their country of origin. Sounds very much like slave trade to me. Cheers, Stef -- Stefan Boberg, R&D/Technical Manager, Team17 Software Ltd. bo...@te... |
|
From: Stephen J B. <sj...@li...> - 2000-09-11 13:47:18
|
On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Stefan Boberg wrote:
> > Brits are pretty good as they speak almost the same
> > language.
>
> "Almost the same language"... erhhhh!?? :)
>
> Reminds me of a friend who went to work for Digital Domain... One day in
> the shops this woman asks him where he's from - "Scotland" he says, "Oh
> really! But you speak such good English!".
...or at a Jack-in-the-Box drive thru counter:
Her: "I love your accent - where are you from?" (something I hear
daily as a Brit living in Texas)
Me: "England".
Her: "Oh - so what language do they speak there?"
...or at a Dairy Queen:
Her: "I love your accent - where are you from?"
Me: "England".
Her: "Oh...That must be a LONG drive."
...or...
Honestly, I could tell one of these stories for every six months I've
lived here in Sunny Texas.
> This is precisely why I opted not to go and work in the US. It's
> ridiculous. That and the fact that you only get 2wks paid holiday (seems to
> be standard, anyway). Sure you can get paid lots more (in theory, anyway),
> but I prefer the freedom I have within the EU.
Well, you can negotiate more holiday (I did) - and I'm earning
probably 2x what I could in UK for similar cost of living.
> Sounds very much like slave trade to me.
In some respects, it is. You certainly don't have *freedom* for
the period while you are waiting for the INS department to process
your GreenCard paperwork (Geological processes work faster) - but
then the wages are very good and the cost of living low (although
*not* if you live in California).
----
Science being insufficient - neither ancient protein species deficient.
Steve Baker (817)619-2657 (Vox/Vox-Mail)
L3Com/Link Simulation & Training (817)619-2466 (Fax)
Work: sj...@li... http://www.link.com
Home: sjb...@ai... http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
|
|
From: Jonathan W. <jw...@bi...> - 2000-09-11 14:20:26
|
on 9/11/00 8:46 AM, Stephen J Baker at sj...@li... wrote:
> Honestly, I could tell one of these stories for every six months I've
> lived here in Sunny Texas.
My favourite is when I when I buy something via mail order over the phone
and _always_ (without fail) get the salesman/woman (usually the latter) who
"has always wanted to visit England" or "has a friend who just got back from
England". There must be something about my accent that makes people want to
discuss their vacation plans over the phone with me.
> Well, you can negotiate more holiday (I did) - and I'm earning
> probably 2x what I could in UK for similar cost of living.
Same here, although I'm not in the games industry so can't comment on the
salary ratios there. I'd say cost of living here in Austin, TX is a lot less
than back home as well.
>> Sounds very much like slave trade to me.
>
> In some respects, it is. You certainly don't have *freedom* for
> the period while you are waiting for the INS department to process
> your GreenCard paperwork
Luckily for me my wife is American and I'm not working under some kind of
indentured servitude. Friends of mine who have worked under other visas have
really rough times. In fact one person I know worked for free for a period
(this was a person with a Masters in CompSci and some industry experience)
just to get sponsorship.
Jon.
|
|
From: Scott, J. <JS...@ra...> - 2000-09-11 13:21:33
|
> "Almost the same language"... erhhhh!?? :) > > Reminds me of a friend who went to work for Digital Domain... One day in >the shops this woman asks him where he's from - "Scotland" he says, "Oh >really! But you speak such good English!". You'd be amazed at how much trouble I have getting myself understood sometimes. Webster also decided to misspell some words, which has caused a few problems. eg. the secondary attack in Heretic2 is "+defence". I didn't know at the time =) > This is precisely why I opted not to go and work in the US. It's >ridiculous. That and the fact that you only get 2wks paid holiday (seems to >be standard, anyway). Sure you can get paid lots more (in theory, anyway), >but I prefer the freedom I have within the EU. It's effectively double the salary and half the taxes of a similar job in the UK. When does anyone get time to go on holiday anyway ? =) Cheers John |
|
From: Scott, J. <JS...@ra...> - 2000-09-11 14:51:27
|
As we seem to be going even more OT....
Waitress: Nice accent, are you from Australia?
Me: Nope, England.
Waitress: Almost the same, I mean you used to own Australia didn't you?
Waitress: Are you from England?
Me: Yes.
Waitress: I have a friend in New England... etc.
Ordering at Taco Hell is a challenge and a half.
Back on topic - the big PC game developers are all in the States. I got sick
of learning a new platform every project. The standard of living is much
higher here, I have no regrets about moving. My biggest fears were the
violence (media hype; I'd like to take a few Yanks into a few English towns
at kicking out time), and the fizzy pop called 'beer' over here (there's
Guinness and Newcastle everywhere).
Salaries are always compensation for your job; it is a balance between how
much you enojoy working where you do and how much money they pay. I
personally would rather be paid a reasonable amount and love the games I
work on with the people at the company, than being paid extra to work on
sports sims with a bunch of people I don't like.
Cheers
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Wight [mailto:jw...@bi...]
on 9/11/00 8:46 AM, Stephen J Baker at sj...@li... wrote:
> Honestly, I could tell one of these stories for every six months I've
> lived here in Sunny Texas.
My favourite is when I when I buy something via mail order over the phone
and _always_ (without fail) get the salesman/woman (usually the latter) who
"has always wanted to visit England" or "has a friend who just got back from
England". There must be something about my accent that makes people want to
discuss their vacation plans over the phone with me.
> Well, you can negotiate more holiday (I did) - and I'm earning
> probably 2x what I could in UK for similar cost of living.
Same here, although I'm not in the games industry so can't comment on the
salary ratios there. I'd say cost of living here in Austin, TX is a lot less
than back home as well.
>> Sounds very much like slave trade to me.
>
> In some respects, it is. You certainly don't have *freedom* for
> the period while you are waiting for the INS department to process
> your GreenCard paperwork
Luckily for me my wife is American and I'm not working under some kind of
indentured servitude. Friends of mine who have worked under other visas have
really rough times. In fact one person I know worked for free for a period
(this was a person with a Masters in CompSci and some industry experience)
just to get sponsorship.
Jon.
|
|
From: Pallister, K. <kim...@in...> - 2000-09-13 16:18:15
|
> Advice to any Brit who takes up this kind of a deal: Make sure you > get a good salary at day #1 because you won't see a pay raise until > you get your green card - and in some parts of the US, that's taking > 6 years...also you are chained to that job - you really can't leave. (Canadian guy throws his 2c, or rather 1.2c, in) Disagree with you there. I think most *good* companies reward hard work and delivery of good with competitive pay. It would be a bad idea for a company with 4 programmers that are at the same level and start out at 50k to raise the salary for 3 of them and not for the fourth guy because you have the 'green hand cuffs' on him. Pretty bad for morale around the office. And keeping him is only part of the problem, you want to keep him productive. By the same token, if a company's stock does real well and the employee's options are worth a good amount of money, how many companies say 'well we don't need to give anyone a raise for 3 years because we have that long before their options vest and they wouldn't dare leave before that'. Maybe I'm wrong and some game companies are a little slave-trade-esque, but I'd find it surprising. KP |
|
From: Graham S. R. <gr...@se...> - 2000-09-15 14:26:36
|
I agree with KP's comment. We are a company (though admittedly not a game development company) who employee quite a few foreign nationals. They are treated exactly the same as US citizens when it comes time for reviews, bonuses, stock options. They are related to company overall and division performance in addition to personal performance. It would not be impossible for the foreign national employees to find work elsewhere if we did not reward them equally. Graham Rhodes > -----Original Message----- > From: gda...@li... > [mailto:gda...@li...]On Behalf Of > Pallister, Kim > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 12:17 PM > To: gda...@li... > Subject: RE: [Algorithms] Game Developer Salary > > > > Advice to any Brit who takes up this kind of a deal: Make sure you > > get a good salary at day #1 because you won't see a pay raise until > > you get your green card - and in some parts of the US, that's taking > > 6 years...also you are chained to that job - you really can't leave. > > (Canadian guy throws his 2c, or rather 1.2c, in) > > Disagree with you there. I think most *good* companies reward > hard work and > delivery of good with competitive pay. It would be a bad idea for > a company > with 4 programmers that are at the same level and start out at > 50k to raise > the salary for 3 of them and not for the fourth guy because you have the > 'green hand cuffs' on him. Pretty bad for morale around the office. And > keeping him is only part of the problem, you want to keep him productive. > > By the same token, if a company's stock does real well and the employee's > options are worth a good amount of money, how many companies say 'well we > don't need to give anyone a raise for 3 years because we have that long > before their options vest and they wouldn't dare leave before that'. > > Maybe I'm wrong and some game companies are a little > slave-trade-esque, but > I'd find it surprising. > > KP > > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > |
|
From: Scott L. <va...@be...> - 2000-09-09 23:32:04
|
That's a great albeit short article. And it's so true. If they sniff a single molecule's essence that you might come cheap, say goodbye to a decent offer. OTOH game companies in general pay about 70-80% on the average of what one could get elsewhere with the same coding skills... At least that's been my experience. I've never been offered a project sufficiently interesting for me to take the pay cut (though I would if such a project were ever offered). Scott |
|
From: Gavan H. <gh...@si...> - 2000-09-10 10:16:36
|
I would have to agree with you Scott, I have noticed that my salary in the US is higher than that quoted for Game companies, and we have the same level of complexity and challenges. I have also noticed varied reasons for low salaries, outside the Game industry it is often due to people that see quick one off apps made in RAD languages (VB etc) as being more bang for buck even though they spend hours trying to finish and fine the app which is where they would reaped huge benifits if they used a talented guy and a flexible language such as C /C++. In the Game Industry I have witnessed an attitude that IT companies also posses being, we are a cool company, our product is cool the best will sacrafice salary just be associated with us, sure that might work for a short period with a few people trying to upgrade thier skills but experienced guys just dodge them for obvious reasons. I wish I knew a solution, but I usually end up just steering clear of those who will not pay, hoping that one day I will find a couple of other experiences guys (10+ years expertise...) and make our own product, I think lots of people have that hope :-) Gavan -----Original Message----- From: gda...@li... [mailto:gda...@li...]On Behalf Of Scott LeGrand Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 9:31 AM To: gda...@li... Subject: RE: [Algorithms] Game Developer Salary That's a great albeit short article. And it's so true. If they sniff a single molecule's essence that you might come cheap, say goodbye to a decent offer. OTOH game companies in general pay about 70-80% on the average of what one could get elsewhere with the same coding skills... At least that's been my experience. I've never been offered a project sufficiently interesting for me to take the pay cut (though I would if such a project were ever offered). Scott _______________________________________________ GDAlgorithms-list mailing list GDA...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list |
×
Want the latest updates on software, tech news, and AI?
Get latest updates about software, tech news, and AI from SourceForge directly in your inbox once a month.
Thanks for helping keep SourceForge clean.
X