gdalgorithms-list

[Algorithms] Can I do this?

[Jim O. <j.o...@in...>]

I'll save you guys the lengthy situation introduction (my situation
introductions tend to end up being very logn, but it is available on request
though...) and get right down to the point:

Can I have my application request a few applications to shut down if my
resources are below a certain level? (I.e. my application is running on a
machine with 64 Megs-o-RAM, but since the user has also running, say, 3D
Studio MAX in the background, nearly 90% of system's resources are already
used and locked away - trust me these things happen and if you have a little
bad luck will even completely trash the system, even if all running
applications are essentially stable) I stress the 'request' bit, as in
sending some applications (.exe files only) the same window message Windows
uses when you choose to switch off your computer, there is no way an
application could get away with just 'killing' other applications.

Is this a reasonable solution, or I am just being selfish?

(I know that I can always use a popup to warn the user that resources are
low, but I figured it would be nice behaviour if the application assists the
user in freeing up the necessary resources...)

Jim Offerman

Innovade
- designing the designer

Re: [Algorithms] Can I do this?

[Michael S. H. <mic...@ud...>]

This should really be on a design list, but the short answer to your question is that any program that does this is going to be un-installed so fast, it's little pointy head will spin.

As far as I'm concerned, no program has permission to shut down any other program *for me*.

On the other hand, a program which will go to the effort to figure out what other program is hogging resources and *recommend* that I shut it down would be welcome as long as I can tell the complaining program to shut up.

At 08:02 PM 7/25/00, you wrote:
>I'll save you guys the lengthy situation introduction (my situation
>introductions tend to end up being very logn, but it is available on request
>though...) and get right down to the point:
>
>Can I have my application request a few applications to shut down if my
>resources are below a certain level? (I.e. my application is running on a
>machine with 64 Megs-o-RAM, but since the user has also running, say, 3D
>Studio MAX in the background, nearly 90% of system's resources are already
>used and locked away - trust me these things happen and if you have a little
>bad luck will even completely trash the system, even if all running
>applications are essentially stable) I stress the 'request' bit, as in
>sending some applications (.exe files only) the same window message Windows
>uses when you choose to switch off your computer, there is no way an
>application could get away with just 'killing' other applications.
>
>Is this a reasonable solution, or I am just being selfish?
>
>(I know that I can always use a popup to warn the user that resources are
>low, but I figured it would be nice behaviour if the application assists the
>user in freeing up the necessary resources...)
>
>Jim Offerman
>
>Innovade
>- designing the designer
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
>GDA...@li...
>http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list 



  Michael Harrison
  United Developers / Inertia, LLC
  Director of Development
  Development Lead for RC Simulator
  214-855-5955 x 102
  Work log @ http://lynx.inertiagames.com

Re: [Algorithms] Can I do this?

[jason w. <jas...@po...>]

Bad.. bad.. bad..

you quickly need to get out of the frame of mind that you and your program
know what to do better than the user. the role of your program is to be
subserviant to the users wishes and demands.

picture this.. I'm a 28.8k modem user, downloaded the lastest 250+meg demo
in the background.. I fire up your game to pass the time, since the download
will take all day. Your game spots my "save as" as a resource hog because it
keeps doing lots of GDI stuff to make the little animation go on, and so on.
So, it sends a WM_QUIT to it, and my Save As prompted dies, leaving me with
nothing to show for the last 5 hours my download ran.

at this point, i'd do 3 things: uninstall your game, tell every website in
the universe just how crappy it is, and then research the feasability of
comming and killing you. after all, I could accomplish all that in less time
than it'll take me to redownload 1/2 of that danged demo.

now, as for things useful.. what you *can* do is inform the user.. if you're
really worried about the situation, throw up a error or a simple notices
that says "it appears system resources are low due to many background
applications. please close some of them and running mygame.exe again for
better performance."

then the user knows what's going on, and can make the call.

RE: [Algorithms] Can I do this?

[Giovanni B. <ba...@pr...>]

apart "moral" aspects, can someone confirm that an application can shutdown
(via WM_QUIT) other apps running under Win2K?
---
Giovanni Bajo
Lead Programmer

Protonic Interactive
www.protonic.net

a brand of Prograph Research S.r.l.
www.prograph.it


> -----Original Message-----
> From: gda...@li...
> [mailto:gda...@li...]On Behalf Of jason
> watkins
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 10:46 PM
> To: gda...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Algorithms] Can I do this?
>
>
> Bad.. bad.. bad..
>
> you quickly need to get out of the frame of mind that you and your program
> know what to do better than the user. the role of your program is to be
> subserviant to the users wishes and demands.
>
> picture this.. I'm a 28.8k modem user, downloaded the lastest 250+meg demo
> in the background.. I fire up your game to pass the time, since
> the download
> will take all day. Your game spots my "save as" as a resource hog
> because it
> keeps doing lots of GDI stuff to make the little animation go on,
> and so on.
> So, it sends a WM_QUIT to it, and my Save As prompted dies,
> leaving me with
> nothing to show for the last 5 hours my download ran.
>
> at this point, i'd do 3 things: uninstall your game, tell every website in
> the universe just how crappy it is, and then research the feasability of
> comming and killing you. after all, I could accomplish all that
> in less time
> than it'll take me to redownload 1/2 of that danged demo.
>
> now, as for things useful.. what you *can* do is inform the
> user.. if you're
> really worried about the situation, throw up a error or a simple notices
> that says "it appears system resources are low due to many background
> applications. please close some of them and running mygame.exe again for
> better performance."
>
> then the user knows what's going on, and can make the call.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
>
>

Re: [Algorithms] Can I do this?

[Adam W. <ad...@ar...>]

You can request other apps to quit with WM_QUIT (much like windows does when
it performs a shutdown), but you can't force them short of a
TerminateProcess (which leaves all sorts of loose ends). Most well behaved
apps will comply, some of them performing their "Unsaved work" type dialogs.
Some ignore you though. Depends on the app.

adamw

----- Original Message -----
From: "Giovanni Bajo" <ba...@pr...>
To: <gda...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Algorithms] Can I do this?


> apart "moral" aspects, can someone confirm that an application can
shutdown
> (via WM_QUIT) other apps running under Win2K?
> ---
> Giovanni Bajo
> Lead Programmer
>
> Protonic Interactive
> www.protonic.net
>
> a brand of Prograph Research S.r.l.
> www.prograph.it
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gda...@li...
> > [mailto:gda...@li...]On Behalf Of jason
> > watkins
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 10:46 PM
> > To: gda...@li...
> > Subject: Re: [Algorithms] Can I do this?
> >
> >
> > Bad.. bad.. bad..
> >
> > you quickly need to get out of the frame of mind that you and your
program
> > know what to do better than the user. the role of your program is to be
> > subserviant to the users wishes and demands.
> >
> > picture this.. I'm a 28.8k modem user, downloaded the lastest 250+meg
demo
> > in the background.. I fire up your game to pass the time, since
> > the download
> > will take all day. Your game spots my "save as" as a resource hog
> > because it
> > keeps doing lots of GDI stuff to make the little animation go on,
> > and so on.
> > So, it sends a WM_QUIT to it, and my Save As prompted dies,
> > leaving me with
> > nothing to show for the last 5 hours my download ran.
> >
> > at this point, i'd do 3 things: uninstall your game, tell every website
in
> > the universe just how crappy it is, and then research the feasability of
> > comming and killing you. after all, I could accomplish all that
> > in less time
> > than it'll take me to redownload 1/2 of that danged demo.
> >
> > now, as for things useful.. what you *can* do is inform the
> > user.. if you're
> > really worried about the situation, throw up a error or a simple notices
> > that says "it appears system resources are low due to many background
> > applications. please close some of them and running mygame.exe again for
> > better performance."
> >
> > then the user knows what's going on, and can make the call.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> > GDA...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list
> GDA...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list

Re: [Algorithms] Can I do this?

[Todd S. <to...@so...>]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:02:25 +0200, you wrote:

>(I know that I can always use a popup to warn the user that resources are
>low, but I figured it would be nice behaviour if the application assists the
>user in freeing up the necessary resources...)

I would just show an icon that indicates low memory like network games
do to indicate a poor or lagged connection.

If you prompted "Do you want to close some applications?" and the user
prompted yes which causes you to kill the 100mb download they've been
downloading for the last day that's at 99.99%?

Todd

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Smith               | Email:   to...@so...
Solid Concepts, Inc.     | WebSite: http://www.solidconcepts.com
Valencia, CA             | WebSite: http://www.solidview.com
Phone: (661) 257-9300    | Fax:     (661) 257-9311
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Algorithms] Can I do this?

[Jim O. <j.o...@in...>]

I am under the distinct impression that I suggested something really bad,
almost feeling sorry for making the suggestion. Some comments though:

> If you prompted "Do you want to close some applications?" and the user
> prompted yes which causes you to kill the 100mb download they've been
> downloading for the last day that's at 99.99%?

That is not what I wanted to do... I was actually thinking about mimicing a
Windows shutdown (which would also be the point where the user finds out
that that download is at 99.99% so that they'd better wait for few more
minutes before shutdown) to give all applications a chance to save etc. etc.

However, I think we've covered about every reason why that idea is bad
already... so on to a better idea then: Instead of mimicing the Windows
shutdown, I could simply compile a list of resource heavy applications and
display this in a list box, suggesting to the user that he'd (or she'd)
better close a few of these applications before continuing (and yes, it will
have the oh-so-precious Ignore button... I still remember certain games
which refused to install on a Win2K machine, since they weren't NT
compatible - grrr!). Oh, and maybe with one of those bars, which changes
color from red to orange to green as more and more resources are freed up
:-)

> Finally, it's not your problem (i.e., not a support issue) if they've
> decided to tie up the majority of system resources and thereby have
problems
> running your program.  Add a FAQ entry to your manual if it makes you feel
> better. :p

This is true in the general case, however, in the specific case of family
and or close friends, I somehow end up fixing things afterwards (perhaps I
am just to nice a guy and thus the only developer on the face of this planet
that ever ends up fixing the pc of relatives and friends, in which case
there never was a problem bigf enough to solve, let alone mention...).

Jim Offerman

Innovade
- designing the designer