Just looked at the datasheet. This is a set of devices - many modules are not supported in the Great Cow BASIC libraries as the registers and the register/bits are very different. I do not know if the 135 instructions are the same.
So, having a dat file is just the start - what modules do you want to use?
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I think one has to think long and hard about how one is going to use these new ATtiny series, and what kind of timeframe is envisioned. While a new data sheet could be generated, certain peripheral modules could take some time to incorporate into the GCB library's.
I looked up the Timer/Counters in the data sheet, and those registers are messed up. They are nothing like the older ones in the mega328 or say attiny85.
Don't want to be a boo bird, but if you want to start right away with GCB then consider more established AVR devices, or the PICs which overtime has the most established libraries?
EDIT: oops Anobium beat me to it.
Last edit: kent_twt4 2018-12-31
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This is a set of devices - many modules are not supported in the Great Cow BASIC libraries as the registers and the register/bits are very different.
Yes, the later Atmel micros have had considerable core changes over the earlier ones. They however (generally) offer many more features for much less than their predecessors.
So, having a dat file is just the start - what modules do you want to use?
ADC, E2, I2C for starters.
but if you want to start right away with GCB then consider more established AVR devices, or the PICs which overtime has the most established libraries?
I never realised there was so much work required to generate a new chip set.
I've worked for 21 years using Actum Solutions visual Realizer & 10 years using MicroEngineering Labs PIC BASIC Pro.
I noted sometime ago that Chuck Hellebuyck moved over from PIC BASIC Pro to Great Cow BASIC & I can understand why.
Neither PIC BASIC Pro nor Realizer have been updated with new targets in the last several years. This leaves only the older, slower, more memory restricted & more expensive micros to choose from. Over time this means that engineers involved in volume production must find new tools to remain competitive.
I don't like cryptic C nor the fiddleness of Assembly code, so programming in BASIC and visual Realizer is my preference.
The best bang for your buck is probably offered by the STM8S value-line micros with Atmel processors coming after. These days, Microchip PICs are amongst the most expensive for what they offer.
I'm in your hands for further suggestions & I do appreciate all your views & comments.
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I am in it for the hobby, so if a device costs $0.50 or a $1.00 more then other devices then it is no big deal.
For most bang for the buck (excepting maybe these newer ATtiny's) I look at the enhanced midrange PIC devices to start with. For small 8 pin devices I like both the PIC's or AVR's (12f1822 or ATtiny25-85). Need something with some more horsepower, then the PIC18fxxk22 or the Mega328, Mega2560.
If still set on 406 then try the ATtiny416 explained board?, dig into the data sheet, and start blinking leds, and so on. This might entail using mostly assembler to begin with? (or limited use of GBC libraries), and manual manipulation of the registers.
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Please let me know if there is anything I can do to reduce your workload. These new parts are where Atmel (Microchip) are now heading with their next design phase.
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Looks like I will need a test rig first. Anyone got a test PCB that will take these new parts?
Then, we will have to figure out a data-source for the .dat. As these are new parts the old method will not work as we used to extract the key information from an older version of Studio and the new Studio has a totally different file format.
So, anyone got an idea of the test PCB? Needs all the normal test items - Pots, comms, leds, swtiches.
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I think I am going to order an ATtiny817 -Xmini. Not too bad a price, and it has a UNO shield breakout/footprint. In addition I already have one of those cheap Chinese UNO expansion shields that has a lot functionality built in. This is purely speculation on my part, but it would be great if it works.
When I began the ATtiny10 dat sheet development, there still was a tn10def.inc available from Studio. Between that, and using a limited free pdf to text conversion utility by Zamzar, I was also attempting to pick out maxmhz, package info, and pins from the Device Summary pdf. All very rough, not all put together or even finished using Python36.
Going forward it looks like attention will have to be paid by these series designations like attiny series 0 and series 1, mega series 0 and so forth.
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I will put a formal request into Microhip tomorrow. They offered help. This is a good call. Help us define the DAT files - it is worth asking as I will ask for all AVR parts.
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@Derek.I have emailed the VP of the 8-bit Business today. Many of your questions are the same - I have asked for help with - data, parts, boards etc. I would like Microchip to help rather than have us struggle. They have helped extensively in the past, so, I am hopeful.
Last edit: Anobium 2019-01-02
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Don't forget the ATtiny817 or so called tinyAVR 1-series. Slightly higher part count to the 0-series. I would say similar architectures?, only with a few more peripherals like DACs, and such.
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Just talking out loud here on .dat file generation and these newer chips. Now there are duplicate registers in the data sheet or include files, like CTRLA, IN, STATUS, etc. So as a general rule do we concatenate every single register?
News: Microchip have responded! Very positively. I have sent a follow-up email to them. They have offer support and test platforms - they are sorting the configuration files for use by the automation tools.
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I've read Anobium's post on the procedure to generate PIC chip files which
is detailed here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/gcbasic/discussion/chipfileforum/thread/b7f16525/
It would be great if someone (with much more knowledge
than I) could detail the procedure on generating AVR chip
files.
I'm particularly interested in the chip file for the
ATtiny 406 microcontroller.
Many thanks,
Derek.
Last edit: Anobium 2018-12-31
I can research the data we have on this device. It is not one that I have come across.
Anobium
Just looked at the datasheet. This is a set of devices - many modules are not supported in the Great Cow BASIC libraries as the registers and the register/bits are very different. I do not know if the 135 instructions are the same.
So, having a dat file is just the start - what modules do you want to use?
Sorry, please see my post 2 below. Thanks.
Last edit: Derek 2019-01-01
Welcome to GCB.
I think one has to think long and hard about how one is going to use these new ATtiny series, and what kind of timeframe is envisioned. While a new data sheet could be generated, certain peripheral modules could take some time to incorporate into the GCB library's.
I looked up the Timer/Counters in the data sheet, and those registers are messed up. They are nothing like the older ones in the mega328 or say attiny85.
Don't want to be a boo bird, but if you want to start right away with GCB then consider more established AVR devices, or the PICs which overtime has the most established libraries?
EDIT: oops Anobium beat me to it.
Last edit: kent_twt4 2018-12-31
Yes, the later Atmel micros have had considerable core changes over the earlier ones. They however (generally) offer many more features for much less than their predecessors.
ADC, E2, I2C for starters.
I never realised there was so much work required to generate a new chip set.
I've worked for 21 years using Actum Solutions visual Realizer & 10 years using MicroEngineering Labs PIC BASIC Pro.
I noted sometime ago that Chuck Hellebuyck moved over from PIC BASIC Pro to Great Cow BASIC & I can understand why.
Neither PIC BASIC Pro nor Realizer have been updated with new targets in the last several years. This leaves only the older, slower, more memory restricted & more expensive micros to choose from. Over time this means that engineers involved in volume production must find new tools to remain competitive.
I don't like cryptic C nor the fiddleness of Assembly code, so programming in BASIC and visual Realizer is my preference.
The best bang for your buck is probably offered by the STM8S value-line micros with Atmel processors coming after. These days, Microchip PICs are amongst the most expensive for what they offer.
I'm in your hands for further suggestions & I do appreciate all your views & comments.
I am in it for the hobby, so if a device costs $0.50 or a $1.00 more then other devices then it is no big deal.
For most bang for the buck (excepting maybe these newer ATtiny's) I look at the enhanced midrange PIC devices to start with. For small 8 pin devices I like both the PIC's or AVR's (12f1822 or ATtiny25-85). Need something with some more horsepower, then the PIC18fxxk22 or the Mega328, Mega2560.
If still set on 406 then try the ATtiny416 explained board?, dig into the data sheet, and start blinking leds, and so on. This might entail using mostly assembler to begin with? (or limited use of GBC libraries), and manual manipulation of the registers.
I agree with Kent,
I will request samples to assess the size of the project to get the parts working.
Many, many thanks Anobium.
Please let me know if there is anything I can do to reduce your workload. These new parts are where Atmel (Microchip) are now heading with their next design phase.
Thank you.
Looks like I will need a test rig first. Anyone got a test PCB that will take these new parts?
Then, we will have to figure out a data-source for the .dat. As these are new parts the old method will not work as we used to extract the key information from an older version of Studio and the new Studio has a totally different file format.
So, anyone got an idea of the test PCB? Needs all the normal test items - Pots, comms, leds, swtiches.
No on the test rig pcb.
I think I am going to order an ATtiny817 -Xmini. Not too bad a price, and it has a UNO shield breakout/footprint. In addition I already have one of those cheap Chinese UNO expansion shields that has a lot functionality built in. This is purely speculation on my part, but it would be great if it works.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/microchip-technology/ATTINY817-XMINI/ATTINY817-XMINI-ND/6226926
https://www.ebay.com/itm/for-Arduino-Multi-Function-Expansion-Board-Module-UNO-LEONARDO-Mega-2560-Shield/132719755403?hash=item1ee6b6c08b:g:j1wAAOSwixlbWsFV:rk:1:pf:0
When I began the ATtiny10 dat sheet development, there still was a tn10def.inc available from Studio. Between that, and using a limited free pdf to text conversion utility by Zamzar, I was also attempting to pick out maxmhz, package info, and pins from the Device Summary pdf. All very rough, not all put together or even finished using Python36.
Going forward it looks like attention will have to be paid by these series designations like attiny series 0 and series 1, mega series 0 and so forth.
I will put a formal request into Microhip tomorrow. They offered help. This is a good call. Help us define the DAT files - it is worth asking as I will ask for all AVR parts.
Yes very much a good call. I am stuck trying to download Studio7 on Win8.1 and it is giving me problems, ....grrrrrrr.
I would like to thank both Anobium & kent_twt4 for their interest in this project.
I note that the same timer cores in the ATtiny406 appear to also be modelled in the following micros:
ATtiny202
ATtiny402
ATtiny204
ATtiny404
ATtiny804
ATtiny1604
ATtiny806
ATtiny1606
ATtiny807
ATtiny1607
This means (over time) that the ATtiny range supported by Great Cow BASIC would increase by almost 27%.
All of these micros moved from prelim to full production during 2018 (EDIT: correction - several appear to still in prelim).
Given Microchip purchased Atmel in 2016, it would appear these core changes are the direction that Microchip wants the AVR micros to move in.
I'm wondering if the chip file information can be pulled from GCC (GNU Compiler Collection)? You will both know a lot more about this than I.
Have either of you located a nice development board to suit that contains switches, pots, LCD etc?
If so, do you have a link for it?
Last edit: Derek 2019-01-02
@Derek.I have emailed the VP of the 8-bit Business today. Many of your questions are the same - I have asked for help with - data, parts, boards etc. I would like Microchip to help rather than have us struggle. They have helped extensively in the past, so, I am hopeful.
Last edit: Anobium 2019-01-02
Thanks Anobium.
Feedback received from Microchip advises that the following parts have now entered full production (from my list above):
ATtiny202 (SOIC-8)
ATtiny204 (SOIC-14)
ATtiny402 (SOIC-8)
ATtiny404 (SOIC-14)
ATtiny406 (both SOIC-20 & VQFN-20)
ATtiny807 (VQFN-24)
ATtiny1607 (VQFN-24)
The other parts listed in my previous post are still in prelim mode.
Don't forget the ATtiny817 or so called tinyAVR 1-series. Slightly higher part count to the 0-series. I would say similar architectures?, only with a few more peripherals like DACs, and such.
Yes, similar internal cores but with an extra 1 x 12bit timer.
I was trying to minimise your work by listing the parts with identical internal timers :)
If looking at the ATtiny817 core, then the following parts are almost identical:
ATtiny212
ATtiny412
ATtiny214
ATtiny414
ATtiny814
ATtiny1614
ATtiny416
ATtiny816
ATtiny1616
ATtiny3216
ATtiny417
ATtiny817 (reference part)
ATtiny1617
ATtiny3217
Can I get a consolidated list of the parts we need to resolve?
I think the timer should not be a constraint.
@Anobium
Core Type:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATtiny_microcontroller_comparison_chart
(the parts with the new core we are looking at are listed in the last segment of the spreadsheet ie from ATtiny202 through to ATtiny3217)
New/Popular 8-bit AVR Products (shows what's in production, what's being currently sampled & future product):
https://www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?branchID=30047&popular=1
AVR 8 bit Peripheral Integration:
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/30010135D.pdf
Last edit: Derek 2019-01-03
Is this the list of devices that we need resolve?
ATtiny202
ATtiny402
ATtiny204
ATtiny404
ATtiny406
ATtiny804
ATtiny1604
ATtiny806
ATtiny1606
ATtiny807
ATtiny1607
ATtiny212
ATtiny412
ATtiny214
ATtiny414
ATtiny814
ATtiny1614
ATtiny416
ATtiny816
ATtiny1616
ATtiny3216
ATtiny417
ATtiny817
ATtiny1617
ATtiny3217
@Anobium - yes, your list above is correct (& also it is complete).
Just talking out loud here on .dat file generation and these newer chips. Now there are duplicate registers in the data sheet or include files, like CTRLA, IN, STATUS, etc. So as a general rule do we concatenate every single register?
or are we allowing a mix of duplicate and non-duplicate registers like?
First whack at experimental tn817X.dat file. More work required, but at least a start. Hope to start playing with the tiny817-Xmini today?
News: Microchip have responded! Very positively. I have sent a follow-up email to them. They have offer support and test platforms - they are sorting the configuration files for use by the automation tools.