Hello. I have decided its time to venture out of the Picaxe world and Great Cow Basic to me seems a really good place to start. I have been doing some research to see if I can recode my present project. I think I can figure out the PWM and ADC side of things But cant seem to find anyting on using a Qualifier with recieving wireless data. Its not a complicated data stream. I`m trying to figure out how to do recieve this:
qualifier ("ABC"),Byte (number from 1 to 12). I need the qualifier as there will be more than one unit transmitting on the frequency. Can anyone point me in the right direction to read up on how to do this?
Marz.
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what kind of transmission devices are you going to use? Coincedentially I wrote an article about wireless data transfer with those cheap 433 Mhz devices (outside the EU it would be 315 Mhz) it will be in the next fullcircle-magazine. Meanwhile I am willing to provide a sneak preview...
Last edit: Boris Breuer 2018-08-10
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sub get_val(Able,Baker,Charlie,target)
Look:
comma = 0
HSerReceive temp 'Look for $ start of message
If temp <> 0x24 then goto Look
HSerReceive temp 'Look for G - every msg
If temp <> 0x47 then goto Look
HSerReceive temp 'Look for P - every msg
If Temp <> 0x50 then goto Look
HSerReceive temp 'Look for G or first unique letter of sentence
If Temp <> Able then goto Look
HSerReceive temp 'Look for G or second unique letter
If Temp <> Baker then goto Look
HSerReceive temp 'Look for A or third unique letter
If Temp <> Charlie then goto Look
comma:
If this doesn't look like what you are doing, Tell a little more about your data stream. Is there a starting char? Is there a command ? Is there an address?
BR
Mike
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hi Mario. picaxe is basic but different to gcb especially hserin and hsersetup.
I used picaxe but erased my m2/x2 picaxe to what they are, pics. You can then use all
features ... and as many variables as ram allows.
I would recommend a uno board as it's plug and play, tidy spec and everything is sockets.
It connects to gcb terminal with the usb lead..no ttl converter needed as with pic...no pickit needed either.
and only £4.
gcb code is universal so think of a uno board as a 28x2 , but 100 times faster.
edit.. gcb is pic orientated but the 328p in unos and nanos is well supported.
I do most gcb coding with a uno..it doesn't have programable pins or battery backup or other stuff that don't work it is just a good workhorse.2k ram,executes command every clock not 4 like pic..dunno what that means.
please get a uno... or a tiny for breadboarding.
a 2560 has more pins than a 40x2 picaxe and half price.
Last edit: stan cartwright 2018-08-10
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A little about the project. I am an agility dog trainer, and anyone who does agility will tell you it is a pain having to reset the jump heights for different size dogs. You also lose a lot of time resetting the jumps etc. We had the idea to make remote controlled jumps. I made prototypes using Picaxe 08ms originally. The circuitry had to fit inside a 1 1/2 inch pvc pipe, as that was close to what everyone was using at the time as jump poles. That made everything a lot harder as EVERYTHING had to fit inside those pipes. The final version i came up with uses a motor with 2 gearboxes. One gearbox output is a 25 to 1 ratio to the other output. the faster output drives a threaded rod that needs 220 turns to get from the bottom height to the top height. the lower ratio output is fixed to a 10 turn 10K pot. I figured the simpler the better as these things would likeley get knocked over a lot.
Th electronics is pretty simple. I was using those 315Mhz 4 button remotes with the reciever board. 4 outputs through a resistor series to give me an ADC value on a pin which then moved the jump up or down, depending on the voltage on the 10 turn pot. That was fine for the prototypes, but I needed 6 heights for them to be used properly. I tried to use 4 buttons to do that, but it just became too complicated. I then looked around for a 6 button remote, which worked well, but I would have to redesign the whole PCB to accomodate that. Then the idea came to me. If I send data it dosent matter how many buttons I want. I can change it at any time with a code update. Also it is just a matter of making an adapter board on my prototypes and they will also work with a code update.
while we were discussing all this we thought of a few crazy ideas to make the sport more appealing to spectators, so I thought i should use a bigger chip so I have more code space and pins for any enhachements we may decide to do in the future, so I changed to a 20M2 chip.To give you an idea on what extra functions we want to include, we would like to have a database on the dogs in a central unit or on a tablet. the dogs microchip is scanned and the heights automatically adjust, and their times, including split times, are logged.
The only thing with all this is the cost blowout for these jumps. I would love to sell these to everyone who wants them, but at a cost of A$200 a set they arent cheap. For that reason I am now trying to cut costs anywhere I can. The native PIC16F182s ( 20M2`s) can be bought here in Australia for about $1.75 if i buy them in bulk. I know they are slower, but in this case it dosent need to be that fast to warrant the extra expense. The gearboxes are expensive, but i have recently aquired a 9 ton injection molder, so I have been playing around with planetary gearsets to get the design right before making the molds. I am lucky enough to have a couple of CNC mills and a CNC lathe to tinker with the design. Hopefully all this will damatically reduce the costs.
@Stan the Uno board is too big. At this time I am using SMD chips to make the PCBs as small as possible. I really need to get everything I need onto the smallest board possible, the cheapest way I can. I get the boards really cheap from seeed. They let you panelise, so depending on the size they cost me aound $2 each. I cant even make them myself for that. @boris I am now using those cheap 315Mhz transmitters to transmit data. Any help would be appreciated. Basically this is the Picaxe version of what I am trying to do:
SERIN pin,baudmode,(qualifier),{#}variable.
@mmote I hope this comment gives you an idea of what I am trying to do. I am not that familiar with GCB to knwo weather that will work or not, but I will give it a try.
Hi Mario,
let me split some points and shorten them for a better understanding:
* instead of using a pre-made remote control with a limited set of buttons you need a device which works as a spare (with more buttons) and / or works as a transmitter (with a PC or a tablet as its "brain"). Am I getting this right?
Then it would be no problem, but you would need to tinker some little device up and which adds a few more $$ to your receipt. Will give you a link to the article later, maybe you get some ideas for what you need...
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It's for an ATtiny13a but should work on more capable microcontroller and PIC of course, too.
I think with this you should be able to elaborate something for your needs: I can imagine a small pcb with an microcontroller which is scanning the buttons and send some codes to do the action and some kind of relay code from serial in to serial out. The ATtiny13a is a bit limited with respect to code size (1 KByte) but is a real nice device to play with. In Germany it costs around
1 EUR for the single unit in a breadboard-friendly size (ATtiny13a-pu). Put some buttons, resistors and the like into account, a pretty cheap diy remote should be possible.
Last edit: Boris Breuer 2018-08-11
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@ Boris Breuer I have already made all of the components using picaxe chips, and it all works well. The transmitter is not really an issue though, because you only need one to transmit to all the recievers. The transmitter has 6 buttons. I took the insides out of a 315Mhz unit I bought on eBay. Using a Picaxe chip I built a new pcb that fits inside. when the buttons are pushed it transmits a Qualifier (ABC), then the corresponding button number (1 - 6) If you want the upper 6 special function buttons, you use the slider switch on the side of the unit to turn them on. Then it transmits the qualifier and adds 6 to the button number (7 - 12)
The reciever gets the qualifier (ABC) and the byte( 1 - 12). It then checks the ADC on the 10 turn POT and decides weather to go up or down or not move. If it goes up it constantly checks the POT to see where it is. When it gets close it slows the motor down so there is no overrrun. If it goes down it does the same but goes past the mark and then reveses and slows down and approaches the mark going up. This prevents any accuracy issues. What I havent implemented yet is an ADC check while moving to see if it is actually moving. I was just going to put code in that compares the ADC with itself to see if it is changing. That gives me the 6 heights required.
The special function buttons are more to do with the setup efore the dogs run. What I want to do is add some fun and put a little glitz into it at night. What I want to do is have the poles lit up with blue LEDs (the best colour for dogs to see) If they jump and the bar stays on the LEDs change to green, if the bar falls of they turn to red
It does get a little more complicated when it gets to the tyre jump. That requires the 2 sides to move simultaneously. I have coded this in picaxe and the controller side works. The reciever on one side gets the byte (1 - 6) it then transmits it through wires to the unit on the other side. that unit transmits back what number was sent. Then they both start moving. I still need to do some sort of error checking using interrupts if possible
So I have a working project using Picaxes. What I am trying to do is replace the picaxe microcontrollers and use GCB so I can knock a few more dollars off the build price. The only issue with the modules like ATiny is the space they take up. Designing a new pcb from scratch using an SMD PIC maks the fotprint so much smaller, which is a big issue for this project. If I could figure out how to put pictures up I would show you what I have done so far, but I dont understand why the "add picture" is asking for a http site.
Thanks for the link Boris Am I right in assuming the syntax would be pretty much the same using a PIC chip?
Cheers.
Marz.
Last edit: Mario Zandel 2018-08-11
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i see your point, well as far as I read, the PIC chips without the picaxe basic can be programmed with gcb exactly the same way you would program an ATtiny or ATmega, so choose the PIC in which form factor you see fit and write your program right away. Besides, rumors say those AVR ones can be bought in SMD size factors also ;) but I am the last one to convince you to change your mind and the platform, stick with what ever you feel comfortable with.
Most things you described (ADC, Potis and the like) I had written in previous articles about. Have a look at the github link mentioned above or on http://fullcirclemagazine.org for more details and source code. Steering motors and the like are covered by example code from others in the very same github referenced in document from the link above. So programming it in Great Cow BASIC shouldn't be impossible.
Adressing the right microcontroller in duty should be a minor issue - related to rewrite all your code you have from picaxe to Great Cow BASIC. This is mere a question of opportunity costs: how much does your time for a rewrite cost, related to the cutdown of your overall price per unit through using pristine PIC devices. Don't know how much effort it would be for a rewrite, but maybe you compare the given source codes from Great Cow BASIC with your picaxe one and can come to a conclusion. (deleted one sentence, which was out of context)
Last edit: Boris Breuer 2018-08-12
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The good thing with gcb is in theory just change #chip to whatever and the same code works.
In general this is true.
It took a while for me to change from picaxe to gcb as I needed pickit2 and learning in circuit programming. In the meantime I used a uno board I gave up on programming c++ and never looked back. If I had used a 328p chip instead of a uno I would have stuck with original plan of using pics.
Can you teach old dogs new tricks? :)
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had some spare time to think about your project and read a bit second level information, is this the picaxe we are talking about: http://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/PICAXE-Chips/PICAXE-08M2-microcontroller/ ?
The pristine PIC would then be a 12F1840, priced around 0.94 USD for quantities up to 25. The picaxe site lists 1.88 pounds which is around 2.4 USD.
Depending of how much units you could sell the rewrite could be a good idea.
Maybe to cut the costs a bit more, the ATtiny most comparable to the PIC in question would be: https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATtiny85
available in formfactors PDIP/SOIC/TSSOP, QFN/MLF price begins @ 0.69 USD. Being even an 8-pin device the pcb layout shouldn't need much changes. And you have plenty program space for your gcb programs left. Downside no hardware usart, but gcb has a fine software usart which brings them even i think. Another downside, the timers are limited to 8bit...
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@Boris Breuer I am using the picaxe 20M2 SMD. The native pic is the PIC16F1829. At this point I am not using all the pins, but the ones with no purpose as yet, go to headers for later additions. At this point all I want to do is get the native PIC working like the Picaxe prototypes i have. The time it takes me to get this working is not wasted. Its a good learning curve in using GCB.
Thank you all who have replied. Looks like I have some reading to do when I have time later in the week. Then a bit of trial and error I expect. I will let you know how I get on.
Marz.
Last edit: Mario Zandel 2018-08-13
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I will keep you posted on how I am going. There will probably be many questions. Just waiting for an adapter cord to arrive for my development board.
Marz.
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If your device supports PPS then yes.
If your device does not support PPS then the default serial ports cannot be changed when you are using the hardware serial library but you can use most ports when you the software serial library.
So, which device are you using?
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@Anobium I am using an old chip.
I found this in the help menu. I have changed it to the chip I had in the devlopment board at the moment. Am I on the right track? The trasmitter is sending at 2400 Baud at this stage. This has it recieving on B.0. I dont need the transmit part. Can you leave it out or does it have to be configured?
Thanks @Anobium. will get there eventually. Think the rest should be fairly easy to do once I get the qualifier and the byte I need into the processor.
Marz
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Hello. I have decided its time to venture out of the Picaxe world and Great Cow Basic to me seems a really good place to start. I have been doing some research to see if I can recode my present project. I think I can figure out the PWM and ADC side of things But cant seem to find anyting on using a Qualifier with recieving wireless data. Its not a complicated data stream. I`m trying to figure out how to do recieve this:
qualifier ("ABC"),Byte (number from 1 to 12). I need the qualifier as there will be more than one unit transmitting on the frequency. Can anyone point me in the right direction to read up on how to do this?
Marz.
Hello Mario,
what kind of transmission devices are you going to use? Coincedentially I wrote an article about wireless data transfer with those cheap 433 Mhz devices (outside the EU it would be 315 Mhz) it will be in the next fullcircle-magazine. Meanwhile I am willing to provide a sneak preview...
Last edit: Boris Breuer 2018-08-10
Marz,
This maybe similar to getting gps strings?
check out https://sourceforge.net/p/gcbasic/discussion/629990/thread/0e660522/
here is a code fragment of that code:
If this doesn't look like what you are doing, Tell a little more about your data stream. Is there a starting char? Is there a command ? Is there an address?
BR
Mike
hi Mario. picaxe is basic but different to gcb especially hserin and hsersetup.
I used picaxe but erased my m2/x2 picaxe to what they are, pics. You can then use all
features ... and as many variables as ram allows.
I would recommend a uno board as it's plug and play, tidy spec and everything is sockets.
It connects to gcb terminal with the usb lead..no ttl converter needed as with pic...no pickit needed either.
and only £4.
gcb code is universal so think of a uno board as a 28x2 , but 100 times faster.
edit.. gcb is pic orientated but the 328p in unos and nanos is well supported.
I do most gcb coding with a uno..it doesn't have programable pins or battery backup or other stuff that don't work it is just a good workhorse.2k ram,executes command every clock not 4 like pic..dunno what that means.
please get a uno... or a tiny for breadboarding.
a 2560 has more pins than a 40x2 picaxe and half price.
Last edit: stan cartwright 2018-08-10
A little about the project. I am an agility dog trainer, and anyone who does agility will tell you it is a pain having to reset the jump heights for different size dogs. You also lose a lot of time resetting the jumps etc. We had the idea to make remote controlled jumps. I made prototypes using Picaxe 08ms originally. The circuitry had to fit inside a 1 1/2 inch pvc pipe, as that was close to what everyone was using at the time as jump poles. That made everything a lot harder as EVERYTHING had to fit inside those pipes. The final version i came up with uses a motor with 2 gearboxes. One gearbox output is a 25 to 1 ratio to the other output. the faster output drives a threaded rod that needs 220 turns to get from the bottom height to the top height. the lower ratio output is fixed to a 10 turn 10K pot. I figured the simpler the better as these things would likeley get knocked over a lot.
Th electronics is pretty simple. I was using those 315Mhz 4 button remotes with the reciever board. 4 outputs through a resistor series to give me an ADC value on a pin which then moved the jump up or down, depending on the voltage on the 10 turn pot. That was fine for the prototypes, but I needed 6 heights for them to be used properly. I tried to use 4 buttons to do that, but it just became too complicated. I then looked around for a 6 button remote, which worked well, but I would have to redesign the whole PCB to accomodate that. Then the idea came to me. If I send data it dosent matter how many buttons I want. I can change it at any time with a code update. Also it is just a matter of making an adapter board on my prototypes and they will also work with a code update.
while we were discussing all this we thought of a few crazy ideas to make the sport more appealing to spectators, so I thought i should use a bigger chip so I have more code space and pins for any enhachements we may decide to do in the future, so I changed to a 20M2 chip.To give you an idea on what extra functions we want to include, we would like to have a database on the dogs in a central unit or on a tablet. the dogs microchip is scanned and the heights automatically adjust, and their times, including split times, are logged.
The only thing with all this is the cost blowout for these jumps. I would love to sell these to everyone who wants them, but at a cost of A$200 a set they arent cheap. For that reason I am now trying to cut costs anywhere I can. The native PIC16F182s ( 20M2`s) can be bought here in Australia for about $1.75 if i buy them in bulk. I know they are slower, but in this case it dosent need to be that fast to warrant the extra expense. The gearboxes are expensive, but i have recently aquired a 9 ton injection molder, so I have been playing around with planetary gearsets to get the design right before making the molds. I am lucky enough to have a couple of CNC mills and a CNC lathe to tinker with the design. Hopefully all this will damatically reduce the costs.
@Stan the Uno board is too big. At this time I am using SMD chips to make the PCBs as small as possible. I really need to get everything I need onto the smallest board possible, the cheapest way I can. I get the boards really cheap from seeed. They let you panelise, so depending on the size they cost me aound $2 each. I cant even make them myself for that.
@boris I am now using those cheap 315Mhz transmitters to transmit data. Any help would be appreciated. Basically this is the Picaxe version of what I am trying to do:
SERIN pin,baudmode,(qualifier),{#}variable.
@mmote I hope this comment gives you an idea of what I am trying to do. I am not that familiar with GCB to knwo weather that will work or not, but I will give it a try.
Last edit: Mario Zandel 2018-08-10
Hi Mario,
let me split some points and shorten them for a better understanding:
* instead of using a pre-made remote control with a limited set of buttons you need a device which works as a spare (with more buttons) and / or works as a transmitter (with a PC or a tablet as its "brain"). Am I getting this right?
Then it would be no problem, but you would need to tinker some little device up and which adds a few more $$ to your receipt. Will give you a link to the article later, maybe you get some ideas for what you need...
Here you go: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10m1Zje3eEja_MnFKNXqLa6f5H8Tbvc1saP9FnWGcMjw/edit?usp=drivesdk
It's for an ATtiny13a but should work on more capable microcontroller and PIC of course, too.
I think with this you should be able to elaborate something for your needs: I can imagine a small pcb with an microcontroller which is scanning the buttons and send some codes to do the action and some kind of relay code from serial in to serial out. The ATtiny13a is a bit limited with respect to code size (1 KByte) but is a real nice device to play with. In Germany it costs around
1 EUR for the single unit in a breadboard-friendly size (ATtiny13a-pu). Put some buttons, resistors and the like into account, a pretty cheap diy remote should be possible.
Last edit: Boris Breuer 2018-08-11
@ Boris Breuer I have already made all of the components using picaxe chips, and it all works well. The transmitter is not really an issue though, because you only need one to transmit to all the recievers. The transmitter has 6 buttons. I took the insides out of a 315Mhz unit I bought on eBay. Using a Picaxe chip I built a new pcb that fits inside. when the buttons are pushed it transmits a Qualifier (ABC), then the corresponding button number (1 - 6) If you want the upper 6 special function buttons, you use the slider switch on the side of the unit to turn them on. Then it transmits the qualifier and adds 6 to the button number (7 - 12)
The reciever gets the qualifier (ABC) and the byte( 1 - 12). It then checks the ADC on the 10 turn POT and decides weather to go up or down or not move. If it goes up it constantly checks the POT to see where it is. When it gets close it slows the motor down so there is no overrrun. If it goes down it does the same but goes past the mark and then reveses and slows down and approaches the mark going up. This prevents any accuracy issues. What I havent implemented yet is an ADC check while moving to see if it is actually moving. I was just going to put code in that compares the ADC with itself to see if it is changing. That gives me the 6 heights required.
The special function buttons are more to do with the setup efore the dogs run. What I want to do is add some fun and put a little glitz into it at night. What I want to do is have the poles lit up with blue LEDs (the best colour for dogs to see) If they jump and the bar stays on the LEDs change to green, if the bar falls of they turn to red
It does get a little more complicated when it gets to the tyre jump. That requires the 2 sides to move simultaneously. I have coded this in picaxe and the controller side works. The reciever on one side gets the byte (1 - 6) it then transmits it through wires to the unit on the other side. that unit transmits back what number was sent. Then they both start moving. I still need to do some sort of error checking using interrupts if possible
So I have a working project using Picaxes. What I am trying to do is replace the picaxe microcontrollers and use GCB so I can knock a few more dollars off the build price. The only issue with the modules like ATiny is the space they take up. Designing a new pcb from scratch using an SMD PIC maks the fotprint so much smaller, which is a big issue for this project. If I could figure out how to put pictures up I would show you what I have done so far, but I dont understand why the "add picture" is asking for a http site.
Thanks for the link Boris Am I right in assuming the syntax would be pretty much the same using a PIC chip?
Cheers.
Marz.
Last edit: Mario Zandel 2018-08-11
Hi Mario,
i see your point, well as far as I read, the PIC chips without the picaxe basic can be programmed with gcb exactly the same way you would program an ATtiny or ATmega, so choose the PIC in which form factor you see fit and write your program right away. Besides, rumors say those AVR ones can be bought in SMD size factors also ;) but I am the last one to convince you to change your mind and the platform, stick with what ever you feel comfortable with.
Most things you described (ADC, Potis and the like) I had written in previous articles about. Have a look at the github link mentioned above or on http://fullcirclemagazine.org for more details and source code. Steering motors and the like are covered by example code from others in the very same github referenced in document from the link above. So programming it in Great Cow BASIC shouldn't be impossible.
Adressing the right microcontroller in duty should be a minor issue - related to rewrite all your code you have from picaxe to Great Cow BASIC. This is mere a question of opportunity costs: how much does your time for a rewrite cost, related to the cutdown of your overall price per unit through using pristine PIC devices. Don't know how much effort it would be for a rewrite, but maybe you compare the given source codes from Great Cow BASIC with your picaxe one and can come to a conclusion. (deleted one sentence, which was out of context)
Last edit: Boris Breuer 2018-08-12
The good thing with gcb is in theory just change #chip to whatever and the same code works.
In general this is true.
It took a while for me to change from picaxe to gcb as I needed pickit2 and learning in circuit programming. In the meantime I used a uno board I gave up on programming c++ and never looked back. If I had used a 328p chip instead of a uno I would have stuck with original plan of using pics.
Can you teach old dogs new tricks? :)
Hi Mario,
had some spare time to think about your project and read a bit second level information, is this the picaxe we are talking about:
http://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/PICAXE-Chips/PICAXE-08M2-microcontroller/ ?
The pristine PIC would then be a 12F1840, priced around 0.94 USD for quantities up to 25. The picaxe site lists 1.88 pounds which is around 2.4 USD.
Depending of how much units you could sell the rewrite could be a good idea.
Maybe to cut the costs a bit more, the ATtiny most comparable to the PIC in question would be:
https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATtiny85
available in formfactors PDIP/SOIC/TSSOP, QFN/MLF price begins @ 0.69 USD. Being even an 8-pin device the pcb layout shouldn't need much changes. And you have plenty program space for your gcb programs left. Downside no hardware usart, but gcb has a fine software usart which brings them even i think. Another downside, the timers are limited to 8bit...
@Boris Breuer I am using the picaxe 20M2 SMD. The native pic is the PIC16F1829. At this point I am not using all the pins, but the ones with no purpose as yet, go to headers for later additions. At this point all I want to do is get the native PIC working like the Picaxe prototypes i have. The time it takes me to get this working is not wasted. Its a good learning curve in using GCB.
Thank you all who have replied. Looks like I have some reading to do when I have time later in the week. Then a bit of trial and error I expect. I will let you know how I get on.
Marz.
Last edit: Mario Zandel 2018-08-13
Thanks for the information about the microcontroller, think I should have a look at those PICs some day, they seem to have neat features, too :)
All the best of luck, that you can bring all to work without too much hassle. Would be nice hearing from you how you proceed.
I will keep you posted on how I am going. There will probably be many questions. Just waiting for an adapter cord to arrive for my development board.
Marz.
OK first Question. Can you recieve serial data on any pin, or only specific pins?
Marz
Depends.
If your device supports PPS then yes.
If your device does not support PPS then the default serial ports cannot be changed when you are using the hardware serial library but you can use most ports when you the software serial library.
So, which device are you using?
@Anobium I am using an old chip.
I found this in the help menu. I have changed it to the chip I had in the devlopment board at the moment. Am I on the right track? The trasmitter is sending at 2400 Baud at this stage. This has it recieving on B.0. I dont need the transmit part. Can you leave it out or does it have to be configured?
; ----- Configuration
#chip 16F877
#option Explicit
There are better folks than me with respect to this...but, you do not need the transmit code.
Thanks @Anobium. will get there eventually. Think the rest should be fairly easy to do once I get the qualifier and the byte I need into the processor.
Marz