Downloaded RC25. Found PICINFO tool in the folder.
Tool looks useful as this now shows most, but not all, of the contents a chip definition file. Love the datasheet link, and other links.
However, a number of usability issues.
The display is all messed up. See the attachment.
The icon is missing/black or something aint right. If you have this at the end of the taskbar and you open a second copy... good luck in finding the application from the taskbar
The data tab is a formatting problem. Very hard to scan the data.
No Help - I guess that is being done as this is a RC release.
The update is out of sync with releases
Do I have to pay for this? Unlicensed? Surely this is Open Source as is the GCB project. Why is this different?
Why not add PPS capability somewhere? The chip definition file has this info. Just look for PPSLOCK register. And, then hot link to PPSTOOL?
This does look different from PPSTOOL. Is there a specific rational for this?
Why does it ask for the chip definition folder? Surely, the software knows the chip definition folder is there and then the default folder can be set. I would expect the casual use to be able to use this. (Thanks for the reset batch file! I got the folder incorrect initially)
And a detailed question. How does extract the info from the .dat file in terms of the defaults?
Looks a useful addition to GCB. The feedback is intended to help. This is not criticism.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
This is not a released version and should not be included. It's inclusion in GCB is a surprise to me as it was specifically agreed that it would not be included.
I'm guessing you set the text in Windows 10 to 175% which was the only way I could mess up the display to look like your post?
The icon is indeed black. The program prevents you from opening a second copy, so I'm not sure how you managed that?
Indeed.
There is a help file (for Windows and an Apple Help book for macOS; nothing for Linux or FreeBSD yet).
I will delete PICINFO from RC26. If you want me to pull RC25 I will. You were aware of the progress to a release, and, as this is a release candiate it is intended to gain feedback, and, at no time did you tell me not to release the software.
I will go through some of the feedback as my feedback has been similar..
The icon is indeed black. The program prevents you from opening a second copy, so I'm not sure how you managed that?
I reported the Black Icon issue a long time ago. The issue is the icon is black and when you start a second copy the 'pop-up' comes up and then you have a hidden application on the taskbar.... you try finding the application on a black task bar. I asked you for a change to the icon. You said No.
The data tab is a formatting problem. Very hard to scan the data.
I reported this. 'The display is odd in the DATA tab. The information is not aligned.'
No Help - I guess that is being done as this is a RC release. >> There is a help file (for Windows and an Apple Help book for macOS; nothing for Linux or FreeBSD yet).
If there is not a CHM I can give you all tooling to create CHM, web and PDF from ASCIIDOCs.
The update is out of sync with releases
The versions are out of sync. Tried it? The version I put in the release candidate is later than the one in your private repository. My fault for putting in RC25 I guess.
I also discussed this with you. So, another person asks a similar question regarding licensing .....
'Do I have to pay for this? Was the question.
Why not add PPS capability somewhere? The chip definition file has this info. Just look for PPSLOCK register. And, then hot link to PPSTOOL.
I get this one. Good idea. Why not add a flag/check/icon that this is PPS chip. Very useful. Then, you could add a link to PPSTool. As the Windows installation of PICINFO will be in a consistent folder (recommended) and PPSTOOL is already installed in a consistent folder it may be possible?
This does look different from PPSTOOL. Is there a specific rational for this?
This is about a look and feel. Not the author.
Why does it ask for the chip definition folder? Surely, the software knows the chip definition folder is there and then the default folder can be set. I would expect the casual use to be able to use this. (Thanks for the reset batch file! I got the folder incorrect initially) >> No it doesn't know where the directory may be located because it is a cross platform application (Windows, macOS, Linux and FreeBSD) .
The PICINFO application will be installed in the same place, everytime. If you permit the software to be included in a release.
How does extract the info from the .dat file in terms of the defaults?
This is how it works. It is not trivial.
I created a process supported by set of scripts that compiles every chip file and then extracts the config defaults. These defaults are then consumed by the PICINFO software. To make this happen I had to change the compiler to add a new capability to support this [change 655 ], and, then as part of every update to any dat file format, or the compiler, I rerun the extract to recreate the default file.
The output file is called chipdata.def and this must match the release of the compiler and the dat files.
This permits PICINFO to eaxmine a chip specific chip DAT file and then present the compiler defaults.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Dont remove the release. This is good stuff. Leave.
Trev,
Odd looking dialog. Yes @175% but this is the only application that has this mega odd dropdown. This is a standard laptop nothing special. Can it be sorted?
re the Black icon. It is black on black. Needs to be resolved somehow. I just hacked the icon. Looks ok when red chip.
Indeed? Means that is closed I guess.
Help. Great to see this.
Anobium nailed this one. See above.
I guess I will have to read and understand another license agreement.
re PPStool. You misunderstood I think. PPS is chip thing and can this be highlighted and a button to PPSTool (which is a great piece of software)
Dont really care about non-wondows OSs. For Windows this folder is static and relative. Should be dead simple to fix. Thanks for the batch file as this really help me.
Anobium
Thanks for explaining. I can use the file now I know it exists.
thanks guys. look forward to next update.
Last edit: Kato 2020-10-02
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Odd looking dialog. Yes @175% but this is the only application that has this mega odd
dropdown. This is a standard laptop nothing special. Can it be sorted?
I have fixed this. The comboboxes needed to be scaled depending on the 100/125/150/175% Windows text size setting as well as the existing scaling for the different screen resolutions.
re the Black icon. It is black on black. Needs to be resolved somehow. I just hacked the icon.
Looks ok when red chip.
I checked it on macOS 10.5 through 10.15 and 11.0 (beta), Windows 2000/XP/XP64/7 (64)/10 (64), Ubuntu Linux LTS18 and FreeBSD 11 and 12 . See image attachments for Win10 light and dark modes. I'll concede that dark mode on Win10 where he icon is black on grey is not ideal, but it is the only one and I'm not intending to change it. You seem to have resolved this one yourself anyway :)
Indeed? Means that is closed I guess.
Nope, it meant that I agreed. It has been fixed for the third time for some definition of "fixed".
I guess I will have to read and understand another license agreement.
It's not difficult to understand ;)
Why does it ask for the chip definition folder? Surely, the software knows the chip
definition folder is there and then the default folder can be set.
It had been previously agreed that PIC Info would not be distrbuted with GCB (because I did not want to change the licence to the GNU GPL) in which case the location of the chipdata directory would be unknown. This was in addition to the cross-platform considerations.
The chipdata directory can be reset without tracking down and deleting its ini file or using a batch file, by simply using File > Open... from the Menu and selecting the new/old chipdata directory. It works. I've used it many times during developement across all platforms.
Help
The Windows Help file is in the process of being updated. The one from the previously released version may be found at https://www.sentry.org/picinfo/downloads/picinfo.chm and cover most of the features bar a few additions since.
re PPStool. You misunderstood I think. PPS is chip thing and can this be highlighted and a
button to PPSTool (which is a great piece of software)
You can search for pps in the Data tab and it will take you to that setting if it's available. Unfortunately I think the PPS Tool only exists for Windows and I want to keep the feature set cross platform.
Email me (via Sourceforge) if you want to test the current development version with the above fixes.
I can wait until the nex release candidate. They come out often..
Cheers for the fixes.
Re the ICON my hack is not recommended for anyone else. Be best to change the icon.
Re the distribution. Reconsider. I would keep software in the release. There is a relationship between PICINFO and the release. Seems very odd not to include. Whats the issue?
Re finding the ini. I went looking for it today.. But, PICINFO will not start. No idea why. I reran the reset batch file. Then I found I had lots of copies running. See attachment. Anyway, go the FILE/OPEN action. Dim here.
Re PPS. I do not think you get it. I have put a mockup in this post. User selects PPS chip, button it shown then user selects button to lauch PPSTOOL. Coolio. Windows only but this makes it very slick.
As a Mac user I greatly appreciate the efforts Trev made into ensuring that PICinfo is fully cross platform. Trev has put a lot of work into this program (App?) and I have provided some development feedback to him regarding the look and feel of the macOS version.
I do care about cross platform compatibility, and how things work on non-Windows OS's.
Not everyone uses Windows.
I suppose the program could be re-written so that is detects when run which OS it is running on, make assumptions on the location of the folder and have a look for it then if it isn't found ask the question. But that adds extra effort to the programmer's workload. More things to code, more to go wrong, more to debug. For the sake of simplicity is it such hard work to simply have the user point the program to the correct location?
I used to have a saying that I would use at work in situations like this:
"Them's that can do better, do it themselves."
It is far easier to find fault than it ever is to do better.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
The location issue is a tad more complex from a user perspective.
You have to set it, initially.
You cannot change the location when you install another version of software.
It takes an experienced person to find the ini. Hence, I wrote the batch file.
Small changes can have huge impact on users.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I understand what you are saying about trying to change the directory location once initially set, though I would have thought that was a rare occurrence. It's not that difficult to look for the .ini file and delete it either. Me? I was always a fan of storing the .ini files for those programs I wrote (for Windows) in the program directory itself. That way deleting the program directory removed any settings, it seemed the obvious way to me, but it broke the Microsoft "Made for Windows" requirements.
All I'm trying to say is that I appreciate Trev's work. I appreciate that it is cross platform. It may have some idiosyncrasies, but is there any program ever written that hasn't had some things that could be improved?
PICinfo is infinitely better than the program that preceeded it, that is to say, no program. There can't be much incentive to create something for the users of GCB if the grumbling is greater than the gratitude. I find that for me and my programs, nothing is more disheartening and is the least likely way to persuade me to change something.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I like/hate linux
Instead of a gcb linux build why not make the windows version work with wine?
I thought apple laptops could run windows programs years ago when my daughter had one.
I've never had an apple computer...or phone.
not everyone uses windows. True, not everyone.
If you got the money for a mac then why use open source software?
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I thought apple laptops could run windows programs years ago when my daughter had one.
The Intel ones, yes, provided you want to pay for Microsoft Windows. The new ones coming out later this year or early next running on Apple Silicon CPUs will not run Windows unless MS releases Windows on ARM for other than their own hardware.
If you got the money for a mac then why use open source software?
Apart from anythign else, Apple computers last and generally hold their value. My 2007 Mac mini is still going strong. Until last year my wife was using a 2012 Mac mini which has now been donated to one of the Lazarus + FPC Mac developers in the US as it would run the current macOS version which his older Apple laptop would not.
As for cost, the Apple Mac minis cost less than any similarly specced PC. I also buy mine from the Apple refurb store which makes them an even bigger bargain (usual saving of between 15-20% off RRP + free delivery to my rural area).
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
As I never owned a mac then I can't comment on their use only their price which has always been expensive compared to same spec "pc".
A smart phone is a phone and I'm happy with £70 android but my son has a £300 samsung android and other family members have apple phones but they are contract phones.
I just bought a dual sim android and only want to change it now after over 10 years as the software is too old for say the lidl app. The battery still works.
it connects to my wifi camera and a quad copter with a camera. Even my usb scope can plug in with otg plug.
I remember trying to get gcb to work on linux mint and building freebasic worked but using it to build gcb was too much for my limited linux capabilities. It was just for the experience.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Downloaded RC25. Found PICINFO tool in the folder.
Tool looks useful as this now shows most, but not all, of the contents a chip definition file. Love the datasheet link, and other links.
However, a number of usability issues.
And a detailed question. How does extract the info from the .dat file in terms of the defaults?
Looks a useful addition to GCB. The feedback is intended to help. This is not criticism.
Thank you for the feedback. Lots of consider.
Most grateful.
The attachment, It got dropped off.
Another one.
Unliciense??
This is not a released version and should not be included. It's inclusion in GCB is a surprise to me as it was specifically agreed that it would not be included.
Icon attached.
Trev,
I will delete PICINFO from RC26. If you want me to pull RC25 I will. You were aware of the progress to a release, and, as this is a release candiate it is intended to gain feedback, and, at no time did you tell me not to release the software.
Best delete these as well.... https://shadow.sentry.org/~trev/PICinfo_lin_10139.zip there may be more.
I will go through some of the feedback as my feedback has been similar..
I reported the Black Icon issue a long time ago. The issue is the icon is black and when you start a second copy the 'pop-up' comes up and then you have a hidden application on the taskbar.... you try finding the application on a black task bar. I asked you for a change to the icon. You said No.
I reported this. 'The display is odd in the DATA tab. The information is not aligned.'
Is there a CHM file? Want to share? I am aware of https://www.sentry.org/picinfo/
If there is not a CHM I can give you all tooling to create CHM, web and PDF from ASCIIDOCs.
The versions are out of sync. Tried it? The version I put in the release candidate is later than the one in your private repository. My fault for putting in RC25 I guess.
I also discussed this with you. So, another person asks a similar question regarding licensing .....
'Do I have to pay for this? Was the question.
I get this one. Good idea. Why not add a flag/check/icon that this is PPS chip. Very useful. Then, you could add a link to PPSTool. As the Windows installation of PICINFO will be in a consistent folder (recommended) and PPSTOOL is already installed in a consistent folder it may be possible?
This is about a look and feel. Not the author.
The PICINFO application will be installed in the same place, everytime. If you permit the software to be included in a release.
This is how it works. It is not trivial.
I created a process supported by set of scripts that compiles every chip file and then extracts the config defaults. These defaults are then consumed by the PICINFO software. To make this happen I had to change the compiler to add a new capability to support this [change 655 ], and, then as part of every update to any dat file format, or the compiler, I rerun the extract to recreate the default file.
The output file is called
chipdata.defand this must match the release of the compiler and the dat files.This permits PICINFO to eaxmine a chip specific chip DAT file and then present the compiler defaults.
Thanks for responses.
Dont remove the release. This is good stuff. Leave.
Trev,
Odd looking dialog. Yes @175% but this is the only application that has this mega odd dropdown. This is a standard laptop nothing special. Can it be sorted?
re the Black icon. It is black on black. Needs to be resolved somehow. I just hacked the icon. Looks ok when red chip.
Indeed? Means that is closed I guess.
Help. Great to see this.
Anobium nailed this one. See above.
I guess I will have to read and understand another license agreement.
re PPStool. You misunderstood I think. PPS is chip thing and can this be highlighted and a button to PPSTool (which is a great piece of software)
Dont really care about non-wondows OSs. For Windows this folder is static and relative. Should be dead simple to fix. Thanks for the batch file as this really help me.
Anobium
Thanks for explaining. I can use the file now I know it exists.
thanks guys. look forward to next update.
Last edit: Kato 2020-10-02
I spent an hour responding to the above, but it seems my reply disappeared into the ether when I saved it. I'll try again later when I have more time.
I have fixed this. The comboboxes needed to be scaled depending on the 100/125/150/175% Windows text size setting as well as the existing scaling for the different screen resolutions.
I checked it on macOS 10.5 through 10.15 and 11.0 (beta), Windows 2000/XP/XP64/7 (64)/10 (64), Ubuntu Linux LTS18 and FreeBSD 11 and 12 . See image attachments for Win10 light and dark modes. I'll concede that dark mode on Win10 where he icon is black on grey is not ideal, but it is the only one and I'm not intending to change it. You seem to have resolved this one yourself anyway :)
Nope, it meant that I agreed. It has been fixed for the third time for some definition of "fixed".
It's not difficult to understand ;)
It had been previously agreed that PIC Info would not be distrbuted with GCB (because I did not want to change the licence to the GNU GPL) in which case the location of the chipdata directory would be unknown. This was in addition to the cross-platform considerations.
The chipdata directory can be reset without tracking down and deleting its ini file or using a batch file, by simply using File > Open... from the Menu and selecting the new/old chipdata directory. It works. I've used it many times during developement across all platforms.
The Windows Help file is in the process of being updated. The one from the previously released version may be found at https://www.sentry.org/picinfo/downloads/picinfo.chm and cover most of the features bar a few additions since.
You can search for pps in the Data tab and it will take you to that setting if it's available. Unfortunately I think the PPS Tool only exists for Windows and I want to keep the feature set cross platform.
Email me (via Sourceforge) if you want to test the current development version with the above fixes.
I can wait until the nex release candidate. They come out often..
Cheers for the fixes.
Re the ICON my hack is not recommended for anyone else. Be best to change the icon.
Re the distribution. Reconsider. I would keep software in the release. There is a relationship between PICINFO and the release. Seems very odd not to include. Whats the issue?
Re finding the ini. I went looking for it today.. But, PICINFO will not start. No idea why. I reran the reset batch file. Then I found I had lots of copies running. See attachment. Anyway, go the FILE/OPEN action. Dim here.
Re PPS. I do not think you get it. I have put a mockup in this post. User selects PPS chip, button it shown then user selects button to lauch PPSTOOL. Coolio. Windows only but this makes it very slick.
As a Mac user I greatly appreciate the efforts Trev made into ensuring that PICinfo is fully cross platform. Trev has put a lot of work into this program (App?) and I have provided some development feedback to him regarding the look and feel of the macOS version.
I do care about cross platform compatibility, and how things work on non-Windows OS's.
Not everyone uses Windows.
I suppose the program could be re-written so that is detects when run which OS it is running on, make assumptions on the location of the folder and have a look for it then if it isn't found ask the question. But that adds extra effort to the programmer's workload. More things to code, more to go wrong, more to debug. For the sake of simplicity is it such hard work to simply have the user point the program to the correct location?
I used to have a saying that I would use at work in situations like this:
"Them's that can do better, do it themselves."
It is far easier to find fault than it ever is to do better.
The location issue is a tad more complex from a user perspective.
You have to set it, initially.
You cannot change the location when you install another version of software.
It takes an experienced person to find the ini. Hence, I wrote the batch file.
Small changes can have huge impact on users.
I understand what you are saying about trying to change the directory location once initially set, though I would have thought that was a rare occurrence. It's not that difficult to look for the .ini file and delete it either. Me? I was always a fan of storing the .ini files for those programs I wrote (for Windows) in the program directory itself. That way deleting the program directory removed any settings, it seemed the obvious way to me, but it broke the Microsoft "Made for Windows" requirements.
All I'm trying to say is that I appreciate Trev's work. I appreciate that it is cross platform. It may have some idiosyncrasies, but is there any program ever written that hasn't had some things that could be improved?
PICinfo is infinitely better than the program that preceeded it, that is to say, no program. There can't be much incentive to create something for the users of GCB if the grumbling is greater than the gratitude. I find that for me and my programs, nothing is more disheartening and is the least likely way to persuade me to change something.
I also appreciate Trev's work. The feedback is good not disheartening. Without feedback Great Cow BASIC would not be the solution it is.
:-)
I like/hate linux
Instead of a gcb linux build why not make the windows version work with wine?
I thought apple laptops could run windows programs years ago when my daughter had one.
I've never had an apple computer...or phone.
not everyone uses windows. True, not everyone.
If you got the money for a mac then why use open source software?
The Intel ones, yes, provided you want to pay for Microsoft Windows. The new ones coming out later this year or early next running on Apple Silicon CPUs will not run Windows unless MS releases Windows on ARM for other than their own hardware.
Apart from anythign else, Apple computers last and generally hold their value. My 2007 Mac mini is still going strong. Until last year my wife was using a 2012 Mac mini which has now been donated to one of the Lazarus + FPC Mac developers in the US as it would run the current macOS version which his older Apple laptop would not.
As for cost, the Apple Mac minis cost less than any similarly specced PC. I also buy mine from the Apple refurb store which makes them an even bigger bargain (usual saving of between 15-20% off RRP + free delivery to my rural area).
As I never owned a mac then I can't comment on their use only their price which has always been expensive compared to same spec "pc".
A smart phone is a phone and I'm happy with £70 android but my son has a £300 samsung android and other family members have apple phones but they are contract phones.
I just bought a dual sim android and only want to change it now after over 10 years as the software is too old for say the lidl app. The battery still works.
it connects to my wifi camera and a quad copter with a camera. Even my usb scope can plug in with otg plug.
I remember trying to get gcb to work on linux mint and building freebasic worked but using it to build gcb was too much for my limited linux capabilities. It was just for the experience.
Latest build is here - all the very latest code and utilities: https://sourceforge.net/projects/gcbasic/files/Release%20Candidates/GCB_Installer-v0.98.07%20RC33.exe/download
Enjoy.