Re: [GD-Windows] VC++ lag
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Re: [GD-Windows] VC++ lag
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From: Colin F. <cp...@ea...> - 2003-06-13 09:36:31
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Okay, I'll add my VC.Net comments:
[1] I guess this will only ever happen to any person
once, but it sure is shocking:
Deleting files from the project deletes the source
files themselves!
Yes, a dialog appears saying something about the items
being removed from the project, but it doesn't say that
files will be deleted.
The first time this happened I was doing a temporary test
that involved compiling a second set of source files in
to my application. When I finished the test, I simply
deleted the items from the project. I was horrified
to discover that the files were deleted! That's like
deleting source code when you change a makefile!
[2] I wish there was a way to build a hierarchy of source
folders in the project that mirrored the hierarchy of
directory on the disk drive.
Doing the "Add files..." thing through the GUI is tedious,
and I'd hate to do all of that GUI work over again when
I invent a new scheme for organizing source directories.
I ended up writing a program to read a hierarchy of
source directories and generate the *.vcproj file.
[3] Why is it that my OWN source files, MFC headers,
C-Runtime headers, Win32 headers, etc, all enjoy
the benefits of Intellisense completion -- but
the OpenGL functions don't show up?
[4] I'd really like to copy the disassembly or memory
windows as TEXT.
--- Colin
cp...@ea...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carsten Orthbandt" <car...@se...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 1:47 AM
Subject: RE: [GD-Windows] VC++ lag
I'd like to mention that I reported several bugs of VS.Net
without any response. And hey, in VS.Net 2003, none of these
bugs was fixed.
Please note that although we have many issues with VS.Net,
it's still much better than using GCC and EMacs ;-) But it's
definately a step back from VC6, which worked much faster and
more reliable. I'd switch back to 6 if it wasn't for the better
compiler (I know there's a way to use the v7 compiler with the
v6 GUI, but that's awkward to me).
Fav list:
- Properties window sucks, part I
Have a workspace with >50 files in it. In Solution Explorer,
double click one of the last files in the list so that the
project tree item is scrolled out of view. Now scroll up the
tree, right click the project tree item (one level below the
root solutiom item), select "Properties...". The properties
window opens with the settings of the project, then the tree
scrolls back to the active (opened) file, therefor the project
items goes out of view and the properties window switches to
the settings for the file automatically. This is sooo annoying...
- Properties window sucks, part II
There seems to be no way to use the standard TAB way to step
through the single controls of the properties window.
- Path case oddness sucks
VS seemingly doesn't care at all for the caseness of project
paths. We usually change the standard "Debug" and "Release"
build paths to "dbg" and "rel" (lowercase). But often they
end up being "Dbg" and "Rel". No idea why, it's not reproducible.
- Toolbars and shortcuts suck
Whenever some Add-In updates its toolbar (namely VAssist), _all_
toolbars are reset to defaults. This is particularily annoying
since I drag the few buttons I actually need into the menu bar
and disable all other toolbars. Keyboard settings are busted,
too. This is much worse that the reset toolbars.
- SCM integration sucks
VS creates (why at all?) *.vssscc files and checks them out at
numerous occasions to write them. But they never actually change,
hence the check-out is not needed after all. Btw: we're using
Perforce, not VSS.
- Bitch build sucks
Sorry, we couldn't resist renaming that button ;-). The problem
is that the list can be sorted by config, name and so on, but
you can't multi-select items. Imagine solutions with 10 sub
projects and five configs...
- VS is unreliable in batch operation
When used through the command line with the /build switch and
its siblings, after some time VS doesn't do anything. We see
this with our build server that launches VS batch jobs and simply
stops working after a day or two without error messages generated.
- VS commandline messes with GUI
Using VS without the GUI from the shell modifies the MRU project
list. Very annoying if you got a 20-project "build all tools and
libs from scratch" batch file. This can be workarounded by having
one GUI-instance of VS open and closing that one after the batch
job since VS doesn't handle settings changes in parallel instances
that well anyway.
- "Clean" sucks
The "Clean" operation invariably does not clean the selected project,
but all dependencies as well. Why?
- Build events suck
Has anyone ever thought about having a _list_ of things to do before
build? With the current solution, you have to use a batch file for
the one event slot you got. This is soooo DOS-ish ;-)
- Renaming configs sucks
Sometimes renaming a config overwrites its settings with the Release
config's ones. Can't tell the exact circumstances (don't do it that
often...).
- Help sucks part I
Although MSDN is configured as external help, pressing F1 often pops
up the internal help viewer as well on the first invocation with the
not-so-helpful description of the F1 key...
- Help sucks part II
There seems to be no way to keep all that VB, C#, WinCE and ATL docs
out of my pure VCPP/Win32 way. Especially annoying since pressing F1
on any Win32 API either turns up the ATL, MFC or WinCE doc, but never
the "normal" SDK page. I'd like to filter that, but there's no way.
- Find in Files sucks
It simply doesn't work. The results are sometimes obviously wrong.
It's also unclear what "All searcheable items" maps to. A single
"All applying include and source paths" might do wonders.
Best regards,
Carsten Orthbandt
Founder + Development Director
SEK SpieleEntwicklungsKombinat GmbH
http://www.sek-ost.de
Wenn ich Visionen habe, gehe ich zum Arzt. - Helmut Schmidt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Notario [mailto:dno...@mi...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:05 PM
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: RE: [GD-Windows] VC++ lag
>
>
> If you guys can provide a list things where vs can improve (from its
> latest version), with arguments such as (X sucks because
> this, this and
> that. Blah doesn't work in this situation), I'll be happy to forward
> your list of petitions to the VS team.
>
> David
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gam...@li...
> [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of
> brian sharon
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:04 AM
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] VC++ lag
>
> That's because for MS's large scale projects they don't use
> workspaces,
> and they do use something that looks a whole lot like make.
> It's called
>
> NT Build, and you can get it with the DDK. With an external build
> utility, VC can just be the debugger and you don't have to
> worry about
> its internal dependency checker being slow.
>
> We use a makefile-type solution here on a much smaller-scale project,
> and it works great - I would never go back to workspaces for any real
> project.
>
> --brian
>
> Jon Watte wrote:
>
> >It's really quite amazing how Microsoft can develop these
> >tools and they just don't scale well. It's all good as long
> >as your project is some 10,000 line report generator, but
> >for a large-scale commercial system, it's really quite lame.
> >Almost makes me wish for the days of GNU make, VIM and
> >CTags...
> >
> >(which we could do, because we generate .dsp and .dsw files
> >out of an abstract project description file that looks a lot
> >like a make file, anyway)
> >
> >
>
>
>
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