Thread: Re: [GD-Windows] merge modules
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From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2003-07-24 00:31:20
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In article <002001c35157$f924f7e0$8476a841@apathy>,
"Daniel Vogel" <vo...@ep...> writes:
> Is there a simple way to install .msm files?
Just install them like any other file. There's nothing special about
them -- they are just like .h or .lib files that you would install
with an SDK.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's first annual demoparty on August 9th, 2003
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
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From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2003-07-24 04:55:43
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In article <00e101c35180$fde8c4e0$8476a841@apathy>,
"Daniel Vogel" <vo...@ep...> writes:
> I have the Speech SDK 5.1 redistributeable here in merge modules form and
> would love to install it on customers machines - clearly just copying the
> .msm files somewhere won't suffice :)
I guess its not clear what you want to do. Merge modules are essentially
libraries for windows installer based setup programs. They are just
MSI databases that are merged into your existing MSI database,
according to some rules for following the merge. They add database
entries to your MSI that install the components packaged by the merge
module.
If you were distributing an SDK and wanted to include merge modules
that allowed developers to install components provided by your SDK,
then for the developer you would just copy the merge module onto their
machine when installing the SDK. The developer would then use the
merge module to build their installation package (MSI) that would
install their own components and your components by virtue of the
additions made to their MSI database by your merge module.
For instance, Visual Studio supplies merge modules that install the
DLLs associated with Visual Studio. An application developer uses the
merge modules to ensure that the VS related components are installed
properly, rather than re-inventing an installation procedure for those
components (which would most likely contain errors or oversights).
So the Speech SDK includes merge modules that you use to ensure that
your application, which depends on the Speech SDK redistributables,
has those redistributables properly installed along with your
application. You don't need to know exactly what should happen to
install those redistributables because its packaged into a merge
module for you to use, hiding those details.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's first annual demoparty on August 9th, 2003
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
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From: Jon W. <hp...@mi...> - 2003-07-24 05:50:24
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> So the Speech SDK includes merge modules that you use to ensure that > your application, which depends on the Speech SDK redistributables,=20 > has those redistributables properly installed along with your > application. You don't need to know exactly what should happen to > install those redistributables because its packaged into a merge > module for you to use, hiding those details. Which is great, as long as you're using the Microsoft installer.=20 Suppose, for a moment, that you're not, for miscellaneous reasons.=20 Then what? Cheers, / h+ |
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From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2003-07-24 13:57:59
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In article <IKE...@mi...>,
"Jon Watte" <hp...@mi...> writes:
> Which is great, as long as you're using the Microsoft installer.=20
> Suppose, for a moment, that you're not, for miscellaneous reasons.=20
> Then what?
Then you won't be getting any logo certifications, you won't be
following best practices, you will likely be coding more installation
bugs, you will likely have more work to do when creating an install,
etc.
Really, there is no reason to NOT use Windows Installer. Every
"install" tool vendor has switched to WI by now, there is no reason
you should not also switch, and many reasons why you should.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's first annual demoparty on August 9th, 2003
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
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From: Jon W. <hp...@mi...> - 2003-07-24 14:05:23
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> Really, there is no reason to NOT use Windows Installer. Every > "install" tool vendor has switched to WI by now, there is no reason > you should not also switch, and many reasons why you should. I agree that it's often a good idea to use the Windows Installer.=20 However, it is not ALWAYS a good idea to use the Windows Installer.=20 It is not true that EVERY install tool vendor has switched, and=20 even if they did, large version updates are sometimes a lot of work=20 that can't easily be justified. I won't wash my laundry in public,=20 though ;-) Cheers, / h+ |
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From: Daniel V. <vo...@ep...> - 2003-07-24 14:51:11
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To quote my original question - "we have a custom setup tool/ installer". -- Daniel, Epic Games Inc. > -----Original Message----- > From: gam...@li... > [mailto:gam...@li...] On > Behalf Of Rich > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:58 AM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] merge modules > > > > In article <IKE...@mi...>, > "Jon Watte" <hp...@mi...> writes: > > > Which is great, as long as you're using the Microsoft installer.=20 > > Suppose, for a moment, that you're not, for miscellaneous > reasons.=20 > > Then what? > > Then you won't be getting any logo certifications, you won't be > following best practices, you will likely be coding more installation > bugs, you will likely have more work to do when creating an install, > etc. > > Really, there is no reason to NOT use Windows Installer. Every > "install" tool vendor has switched to WI by now, there is no reason > you should not also switch, and many reasons why you should. > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> > Pilgrimage: Utah's first annual demoparty on August 9th, 2003 > <http://pilgrimage.scene.org> > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet > _072303_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-windows mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=555 > |
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From: Gareth L. <GL...@cl...> - 2003-07-24 14:05:10
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> Then you won't be getting any logo certifications, you won't be > following best practices, you will likely be coding more installation > bugs, you will likely have more work to do when creating an install, > etc. I'm not a Microsoft disliker, but claiming that you will have more bugs because you choose not to use Microsoft's flavour of the month installer is a bit, I don't know, far fetched. > > Really, there is no reason to NOT use Windows Installer. Every > "install" tool vendor has switched to WI by now, there is no reason > you should not also switch, and many reasons why you should. Not NSIS. It's smaller, easier to use, and it's 'cool' ( in the sense that anything made by Justin is cool ). |
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From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2003-07-24 14:44:50
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In article <495...@mi...>,
Gareth Lewin <GL...@cl...> writes:
> I'm not a Microsoft disliker, but claiming that you will have more bugs
> because you choose not to use Microsoft's flavour of the month installer is
> a bit, I don't know, far fetched.
I said it was likely that you would have more bugs. I didn't state it
as an axiomatic fact. I choose my words very carefully. I say what I
mean and mean what I say. I stand by my statement, having watched too
many installers screw things up when it comes to file versioning. WI
does it properly. Other installers obviously have not.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's first annual demoparty on August 9th, 2003
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
|
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From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2003-07-24 15:31:30
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In article <015401c351f2$ff100000$8476a841@apathy>,
"Daniel Vogel" <vo...@ep...> writes:
> To quote my original question - "we have a custom setup tool/ installer".
Then asking about merge modules is a bit of a moot question, isn't
it? They are only useful for WI based installations.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's first annual demoparty on August 9th, 2003
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
|
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From: Mickael P. <mpo...@ed...> - 2003-07-24 15:52:11
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Rich wrote:
> In article <015401c351f2$ff100000$8476a841@apathy>,
> "Daniel Vogel" <vo...@ep...> writes:
>
>> To quote my original question - "we have a custom setup tool/
>> installer".
>
> Then asking about merge modules is a bit of a moot question, isn't
> it? They are only useful for WI based installations.
You are twisting around the question, are you not ?
He needs to install some external SDK during the installation process of is
program, and that SDK is in "msm" form. He just want to know how he can deal
with that msm stuff in order to get the SDK installed.
He don't ask about the political correctness of using such or such
installer...
I think the answer could be interesting for quite a number of people.
Mickael Pointier
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From: Javier A. <ja...@py...> - 2003-07-24 16:23:28
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Rich wrote: > >> To quote my original question - "we have a custom setup tool/ >> installer". > > Then asking about merge modules is a bit of a moot question, isn't > it? They are only useful for WI based installations. It is not moot if WI merge modules are the only way the Speech SDK is distributed. Please don't waste so much energy discussing related but irrelevant points and this thread will actually get somewhere. Rereading the thread might be a good way to understand the point and be able to help. Currently, the only solution to the original problem seems to be: bite the bullet, and create a separate installer package with WI (using InstallShield or your setup tool of choice) to install the Speech SDK. Then, call this installer from your custom main installer. In a way, this is similar to how most games install the DirectX runtime. Javier Arevalo Pyro Studios |
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From: Gareth L. <GL...@cl...> - 2003-07-24 16:09:38
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Well, I've asked around in #winprog (Normally can get any windows related question answered there), and the best I can get is.. <theForger> inany case, they aren't intended to be used that way, even if it's "possible" So I don't think you can do it. There is some dependancy on the .msi file. An option is to create just a single msi file that wraps all your merge module(s) and just execute that .msi from inside your installer. An option, not a good one though. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mickael Pointier [mailto:mpo...@ed...] > Sent: 24 July 2003 16:55 > To: gam...@li... > Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] merge modules > > > Rich wrote: > > In article <015401c351f2$ff100000$8476a841@apathy>, > > "Daniel Vogel" <vo...@ep...> writes: > > > >> To quote my original question - "we have a custom setup tool/ > >> installer". > > > > Then asking about merge modules is a bit of a moot question, isn't > > it? They are only useful for WI based installations. > > You are twisting around the question, are you not ? > > He needs to install some external SDK during the installation > process of is > program, and that SDK is in "msm" form. He just want to know > how he can deal > with that msm stuff in order to get the SDK installed. > > He don't ask about the political correctness of using such or such > installer... > > I think the answer could be interesting for quite a number of people. > > > Mickael Pointier > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet > _072303_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-windows mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=555 > |
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From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2003-07-24 17:33:27
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In article <008801c35200$a3a4a5a0$7b0...@co...>,
"Javier Arevalo" <ja...@py...> writes:
> Please don't waste so much energy discussing related but
> irrelevant points and this thread will actually get somewhere.
If its related, how can it be irrelevant?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Pilgrimage: Utah's first annual demoparty on August 9th, 2003
<http://pilgrimage.scene.org>
|
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From: Javier A. <ja...@py...> - 2003-07-25 08:18:49
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It is related to the question, but not relevant to the answer, but you already know this. Don't stretch this dialectic battle of yours further, please. Rich wrote: > >> Please don't waste so much energy discussing related but >> irrelevant points and this thread will actually get somewhere. > > If its related, how can it be irrelevant? Javier Arevalo Pyro Studios |
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From: Gareth L. <GL...@cl...> - 2003-07-25 09:38:27
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If you are gonna go the MSI route, can I recommend using the vs.net install project stuff. Assuming you are using vs.net it's free, and super simple to use. Another option might be to contact the makers of the speech sdk, maybe they have other versions of the redist avaiable. > -----Original Message----- > From: Javier Arevalo [mailto:ja...@py...] > Sent: 24 July 2003 17:29 > To: gam...@li... > Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] merge modules > > > Rich wrote: > > > >> To quote my original question - "we have a custom setup tool/ > >> installer". > > > > Then asking about merge modules is a bit of a moot question, isn't > > it? They are only useful for WI based installations. > > It is not moot if WI merge modules are the only way the Speech SDK is > distributed. Please don't waste so much energy discussing related but > irrelevant points and this thread will actually get > somewhere. Rereading the > thread might be a good way to understand the point and be > able to help. > > Currently, the only solution to the original problem seems to > be: bite the > bullet, and create a separate installer package with WI > (using InstallShield > or your setup tool of choice) to install the Speech SDK. > Then, call this > installer from your custom main installer. In a way, this is > similar to how > most games install the DirectX runtime. > > Javier Arevalo > Pyro Studios > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet > _072303_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-windows mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=555 > |
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From: Daniel V. <vo...@ep...> - 2003-07-24 01:15:06
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> > Is there a simple way to install .msm files? > > Just install them like any other file. There's nothing special about > them -- they are just like .h or .lib files that you would install > with an SDK. I have the Speech SDK 5.1 redistributeable here in merge modules form and would love to install it on customers machines - clearly just copying the .msm files somewhere won't suffice :) -- Daniel, Epic Games Inc. |
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