Brackets or Parentheses

Coolrat
2011-03-19
2012-10-07
1 2 3 > >> (Page 1 of 3)
  • Coolrat

    Coolrat - 2011-03-19

    Hi!
    I've been using Freeplane for some time.

    Is there a way to group together a series of nodes that in turn affect another
    node?

    ie)
    node1 | node 1
    node2 | - Condition1 (nodes work together to indicate Condition1) - node 2
    node3 | node 3

    The "|" (bar) represents a large bracket that groups nodes1,2,3 together in a
    group, which in turn indicate "Condition1".
    Then, from Condition1, we can branch off again and create different nodes.

    I hope what Im trying to explain is clear. I believe that XMind had this
    feature.
    (I drew a diagram of this, but can't seem to attach this picture file)

    Perhaps someone can tell me how to do this in Freeplane.
    If this feature does not exist, please consider implementing it.

    Thanks for a great application.

     
  • Dimitry Polivaev

    What happens if node1 on the left side has child nodes? Is it allowed to have
    children?
    Does XMind really has this feature? Could you upload some screen shots?
    You can upload your example diagrams into Mantis after you submit a feature
    request. Please post here its id.

    Regards, Dimitry

     
  • Coolrat

    Coolrat - 2011-03-19

    Hi Dimitry

    Thanks. I submitted this to Mantis ID number 0001031.

    I hope the diagram I sent is useful in explaining my idea.
    I haven't used XMind for ages, but I do seem to recall it had this feature. A
    discussion on the xmind site seems to suggest that indeed Xmind does have a
    "summary bracket" feature (https://groups.google.com/group/xmind/browse_threa
    d/thread/36860aa423d6b624?pli=1)

    Regards,
    Ray

     
  • Coolrat

    Coolrat - 2011-03-27

    Hi
    I just found an example of a mindmap on the Xmind website that clearly shows
    this feature: http://www.xmind.net/share/deprieto/about-
    forums-2/

    Has nobody requested this before?

    Thank you

     
  • andres

    andres - 2011-03-27

    I have just uploaded an image of a Mindjet Manager map I designed to
    illustrate this important request .See:
    different_boundaries_(clouds)_in_mindjet_manager.png in
    https://sourceforge.net/apps/mantisbt/freeplane/view.php?id=1031

    This functionality has been requested already in Freemind since long ago and
    has been mentioned in Freeplane but I think not formally requested. I really
    hope it could be implemented.

    Andrés

     
  • Quinbus

    Quinbus - 2011-03-27

    Andres,

    This is the same feature you and I dialoged about in a very old FreePlane
    feature request from maybe last year. The brackets are really the same thing
    as clouds that wrap around multiple nodes of the same level, thereby, in
    effect, making a new "supernode" that gets handled as a single unit rather
    than as individual sybling nodes (which otherwise move independently of each
    other).

    I both you and I were of the same opinion that some sort of bracket or cloud
    function as requested here could make for a very powerful way to summarize
    nodes or a list.

    But I think this FP feature request is still out there; I'm in Bangkok at the
    moment with a not-very-good internet connection or I'd go over there and find
    the exact reference.

    Q!

     
  • andres

    andres - 2011-03-27

    Hi Quinbus,
    you are right. Long ago you entered a request (0000210) for a "Cloud feature
    to allow for summary brackets (ala Xmind)":
    http://sourceforge.net/apps/mantisbt/freeplane/view.php?id=210

    That request and the present one show that there are many users in many fields
    of work who need this feature. It would be especially useful in brainstorming
    and lecturing sessions. It would nicely mimic the way a manager and a lecturer
    usually wind up an exposition by graphically summarizing their arguments with
    a bracket on a blackboard (electronic or other).

    Following your request and dialog, I remember the request (0000235) I
    presented for another feature, somehow related to yours: "more edge forms
    (frames) for clouds and nodes":
    http://sourceforge.net/apps/mantisbt/freeplane/view.php?id=235
    Similar requests (or wishes) have been entered before and after mine. And the
    same goes for more diversified structures of nodes (organogram, etc.).

    All this requests and dialogs show that there are many users that need and
    would like to see these improvements being implemented in Freeplane.

    (Last but not least: have a pretty sejour in Bangkok, even without -or just
    because- no internet)

    Andrés

     
  • Coolrat

    Coolrat - 2011-03-28

    Its very nice to see that others have also made this request. I searched
    endlessly in the Freeplane menus to find this feature because, to me, it seems
    quite logical that the program must have it.

    I also very much like Andre's idea of a "new "supernode" that gets handled as
    a single unit rather than as individual sybling nodes (which otherwise move
    independently of each other)." This would all the user to create more fluid
    diagrams that are less rigidly bound together in a tree. This would facilitate
    arguements/discussions that do not follow a clear linear line of increasingly
    finer-grained detail, but rather which branch out into other areas.

    Again my thanks to the developers for being so responsive to user requests!

     
  • Dimitry Polivaev

    I proudly announce that the shall be implemented in 1.2.5_01.

     
  • andres

    andres - 2011-04-16

    Dimitry,
    this is really a big, big news !! is a big jump in the development of
    Freeplane.
    Congratulations for this achievement, and many thanks for the possibility to
    enjoy it.
    Regards,

    Andres

     
  • Coolrat

    Coolrat - 2011-04-17

    I think this is fantastic news too. I've been hoping for such a feature for a
    long time. To see it implemented so quickly inspires a lot of confidence in
    Freeplane's development team.

    Thank you again!

     
  • Dimitry Polivaev

    The version is available at http://freeplane.sourceforge.net/preview/ .

    There are only two new actions you may need:

    • Nodes->Summary Node toggles node between usual node and summary node
    • Nodes->Begin Node Group can let the group finished by a summary node to start with the selected node. You need this action only if you want to exclude some nodes from the group.

    The summary nodes are just a usual nodes carrying an additional summary flag
    which place them at the new position after the curly brace. Consider also
    their representation at the outline view. they are not children of the grouped
    nodes but of their common parents. All grouped nodes must belong to the same
    parent node.

    Current solution does not allow to create summary nodes of summary nodes, but
    summary nodes of the parent nodes of summary nodes can do the same in many
    cases.
    Try it out and write if you find comfortable with it.

    There is an example map http://freeplane.sourceforge.net/preview/Example-
    SummaryNodes.mm
    . I wish you give me a better one ;)

    Regards, Dimitry

    P.S. Project web server seems to be down now, I hope SourceForge fixes it
    soon.

     
  • andres

    andres - 2011-04-17

    Dimitry,
    I have been trying to draw the following situation in a map
    - I have four nodes A, B, C, D, all of them children of node 1
    - I make a summary node of A and B: summary node 1.1
    - I make a summary node of C and D: summary node 1.2
    - Now, I want to make a node summary of A, B, C and D: summary node 1, which is, I would say, a summary of summaries.
    Well, unfortunately, I cannot manage to draw this last summary node 1. How can
    this be done? Is it possible?

    Thanks for your help

    Andrés

     
  • Dimitry Polivaev

    Andres,

    you can not create summary of summaries, but you can create a summary node
    below node 1 as its sibling. All summary nodes are displayed at the right to
    the subtrees of the nodes they sum up.

    Is it clear? Is it enough?

    Regards, Dimitry

     
  • andres

    andres - 2011-04-18

    Dimitry,
    Perfect! And ... and the most impressive: with the way you have dessigned the
    feature, you CAN create a summary of summaries !!. You cannot create a sibling
    of the partial summaries and to convert then this sibling into a summary of
    summaries. But this does not mean that you cannot summarize the content of the
    partial summaries, i.ew the content of the parent node and all its siblings. I
    give below the procedure to show that it is possible.

    But first a couple of words to point out to something that I consider to be
    really impressive: the summary node feature is far more powerful than the ones
    in Mindjet Manager and Xmind, because it allows 2 situations: to make
    summaries of summaries and to make also partial summaries embracing only a
    part of the children nodes. And even more: summary nodes can in fact also be
    seen as the child node of many nodes: we can thus use this feature to draw a
    relationship n nodes ---> 1 node. And if you take into account the 2 mentioned
    situations, the possibilities are really impressive. And even more if we
    combine all of this with the feature to make connectors simulate edges.

    Now, on the procedure to create summaries of summaries.

    Creation of a Summary Node of Summary Nodes

    Example case
    - I have a "node 1", with four children: A, B, C, D.
    - I need to summarize the content of nodes A and B
    - I also need to summarize the content of nodes C and D
    - Finally, I want to summarize the whole content of node 1 and its sub-branches, i.e. in this case, to summarize the whole content of node 1's siblings A, B, C, D, what in fact will be thus the summary of the partial summaries for A and B, and for C and D.
    Solution
    I. Create the partial summary nodes
    - I a node 1 with four children A, B, C, D
    - I make a summary node of A and B: summary node AB
    - I make a summary node of C and D: summary node CD
    - Now, I want to make a node summary of A, B, C and D: summary node ABCD, which is, I would say, a summary of summaries.
    II. Create the summary node of ssummary node
    1. Create a sibling of the parent node 1
    2. Convert this sibling into a summary node of all the siblings of node 1 by selecting it and applying Summary Node in the context menu.
    3. Result: a summary node for all branches of node 1 appears. This is thus the summary of the summary nodes, as you can see graphically in the map.

    Regards,

    Andrés

     
  • Coolrat

    Coolrat - 2011-04-18

    I tried out the new alpha version 1.25 to test out the summary bracket
    feature. After experimenting, I have been unable to figure out how to to
    create summary nodes.

    Well,.. I did manage to create several, but I cannot seem to figure out the
    process and replicate my results. This suggests that perhaps the process is
    not very intuitive. Perhaps you can make some changes either to the process,
    or to the menue names so that this is intuitive. Or maybe all that is
    necessary is some clearer instructions on the process.

    Thanks for your help!

     
  • andres

    andres - 2011-04-18

    Coolrat,
    I hope this can help: in the example map "Example-SummaryNodes.mm"
    (http://freeplane.sourceforge.net/preview/Example-
    SummaryNodes.mm)
    you can reverse the procedure to create summary nodes so
    that you can see where do they come from. They all are actually sibling nodes:
    - select a summary node and in the context node right click on "Summary Node".
    - the summary node will revert to a sibling node
    - toggling the "Summary Node" option you'll get again the summary node in its summary position.

    The procedure to create a summary node is thus to create a sibling of the
    nodes you want to summarize and then to apply to this sibling the "Summary
    Node" option (after toying with the example map in the way I describe,
    Dimitry's instructions in the entry 13 above became more clear to me).

    I also thought initially that the procedure of selecting a parent node and
    applying the feature "Summary Node" would be more direct and intuitive, so as
    it functions in Mindjet Manager. But, after practicing a bit, I see the
    advantages of the procedure dessigned by Dimitry. When the parent node is too
    far from the summary node (i.e. too many children and subchildren between the
    parent node and the summary node) it is very difficult to see to which nodes
    (i.e. to which parent node) the summary node applies. This is no problem with
    Freeplane's procedure since you can temporarily convert the summary node back
    into its original sibling to see its precise position and relation to a parent
    node or to its siblings. This is still more useful considering that in
    Freeplane you can draw partial summary nodes, i.e. a summary node of only a
    part of the children nodes, a feature that does not exist in the other mindmap
    programs.

    There may be another more intuitive way to achieve the same. But I hope it
    would not be at the expense of the possibility to revert a summary node into a
    child node and vice versa.

    Regards,

    Andrés

     
  • andres

    andres - 2011-04-18

    A clarification:
    the procedure described in the entry 16 above to draw summaries of summaries
    is valid exclusively in the case that all nodes have the same parent node that
    is not a summary node.
    This doesn't thus apply to the modifications showed in the map referred to in
    the entry 18. Please, do not take this map into account. And apologies for
    this wrong reference.

    Regards,

    Andrés

     
  • Coolrat

    Coolrat - 2011-04-18

    Thank you very much Andres.

    After reading your explanation, I did a few tests and understood how it works
    very quickly. Its a brilliant, simple solution and its easy to use! Thanks
    again!

    Should we avoid using this Alpha 1.25 version to edit or create maps? I'm
    really looking foward to using this feature on several of the maps that I am
    working on now.

    Regards,
    Ray

     
  • Dimitry Polivaev

    Thank you very much Andres.

    After reading your explanation I strongly wish you could help us with your
    strong didactic skills by creating either a mind map or some wiki pages
    explaining the new functionality so that I could use them in the docu for the
    coming release.

    I think I can code some things quite well and that some other people ,
    presumably native speakers, have the ability to understand and explain things
    in a very clear and elegant way. So let us do our best.

    Dimitry

     
  • Carlos

    Carlos - 2011-04-18

    Thanks, Dimitry. "Summary Node" is a really, really great feature.
    One question:What's the purpose of the "Begin Node Group" menu option ?

    Regards

    Carlos

     
  • Quinbus

    Quinbus - 2011-04-18

    Carlos,

    The "Begin Node Group" is a tool you can use to adjust what nodes are in the
    summary bracket and what aren't. From what I can tell in working with
    brackets, the default is to include all the sibling nodes from the summary
    node up to either the top of the list or to the first node marked as "Begin
    Node Group."

    So, what does that mean practically?

    Suppose you have five sibling nodes 1, 2, 3, 4,5 and you wish to summarize 2,3
    and 4 with brackets. Inserting a new sibling node between nodes 4 and 5 and
    then "promoting" it to a summary node will result in a bracket around all the
    nodes above the summary node (i.e., nodes 1, 2, 3,4). By selecting node 2 and
    clicking "Begin Node Group", node 1 will then be excluded from the bracket
    because the group then starts at node 2 (leaving nodes 2, 3 and 4 inside of
    the bracket).

    It's harder to say than to do, so just play around with it. It allows you to
    create multiple summary brackets within a list of sibling nodes and control
    which nodes are included in the bracket above or below...

    Q!

     
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