Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@gm...>]

Hello,

I have now created a wiki page containing part of my state of knowledge on
the logotype license.

http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Development/Logotype_License

Please enter your findings and links on the logotype licenses there.

Best regards,
Dan


On 3/18/07, Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> AFAIK we've already had this discussion, so I am surprised to see you
> suggesting again FreeMind's logo should be licenced under a free licence
> like GNU GPL.
>
> Debian's logo is not licenced under GNU GPL; it is not licenced under a
> free licence in general. Logotypes are in general not licenced under open
> source licences. Please check the following pages, where you can see under
> what licences the logotypes are licenced.
>
> http://www.debian.org/logos/
> http://www.freebsd.org/art.html#USE
>
> Also, could you please, instead of just arguing, do some research, based
> on which your suggestions and claims are made? Do you know of some open
> source application whose logotype is licenced under GNU GPL? Which one is
> it? Is there a discussion they have lead on the licence of their logotype
> that we could follow?
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel Polansky
>
>
>
> On 3/17/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am not sure if the license is compatible with the GNU GPL. I think
> > that all graphics coming within FreeMind.jar must be free for reuse
> > under the GPL, particularly a right to use the changed graphics in any
> > GPL licensed products must be granted to anybody.
> >
> > How do you think?
> >
> > Dimitry
> >
> >
> > Dan Polansky schrieb:
> > > Hello Eric and others,
> > >
> > > the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.
> > >
> > >
> > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118
> > >
> > > It is as follows.
> > >
> > > All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
> > > ( Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
> > > and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
> > > FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
> > > other image format than the original PNG.
> > >
> > > We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's
> > consent.
> > > We do not have a vector graphics format version.
> > >
> > > We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image format.
> > >
> > > Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the
> > logotype
> > > is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or
> > suggestions
> > > for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind team
> >
> > > should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@... > wrote:
> > >>> As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that
> > we
> > >>> can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author; that
> > >>> wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an argument
> > >>> against the new logo-set.
> > >> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some
> > vector
> > >> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of
> > colors,
> > >> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
> > >>
> > >> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector version,
> > if
> > >> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
> > >>
> > >> Dimitry
> > >>
> > >>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > >> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
> > share
> > >> your
> > >> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> > >>
> > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Freemind-developer mailing list
> > >> Freemind-developer@...
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> > >>
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
> > share your
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> > >
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Freemind-developer mailing list
> > > Freemind-developer@...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> > >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> > your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Freemind-developer mailing list
> > Freemind-developer@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> >
>
>

[Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Eric Lavarde - FreeMind <freemind@zo...>]

Hello Dan (others!),

based on some discussions I've seen here on there, and the fact that
you're not willing to ask the bulb author for changes, can you please
specify under which license the light bulb has been placed, and what our
chances would be to modify the logo ourselves?

As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that we
can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author; that
wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an argument
against the new logo-set.

Thanks, Eric

-- 
Eric de France, d'Allemagne et de Navarre

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@gm...>]

> As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that we
> can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author; that
> wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an argument
> against the new logo-set.

In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some vector 
graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of colors, 
replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.

Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector version, if 
he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.

Dimitry

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@gm...>]

Hello Eric and others,

the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118

It is as follows.

All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
(Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
other image format than the original PNG.

We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's consent.
We do not have a vector graphics format version.

We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image format.

Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the logotype
is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or suggestions
for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind team
should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?

Best regards,
Dan


On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
>
> > As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that we
> > can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author; that
> > wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an argument
> > against the new logo-set.
>
> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some vector
> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of colors,
> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
>
> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector version, if
> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
>
> Dimitry
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> Freemind-developer mailing list
> Freemind-developer@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
>

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Eric Lavarde - FreeMind <freemind@zo...>]

Hi Dan,

if the license of the image is not free, there is a high risk that I (and
others) can't package FreeMind for Debian/Jpackage/YouNameIt.
Furthermore, it would sound strange to me to have a non-free Logo for a
software under the GPL license.

Getting the logo under GPL license would be the easiest to manage; but it
would require in deed that the original vector graphic is provided (the
source code so to say).

As much as I am like Dimitry and would prefer this solution, I think that
something like a free enough creative commons license (I think
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ would be good) would be
acceptable, even based on the bitmap format.

But to make it short, my requirement is that the license granted by Frank
respects the Debian guidelines:
http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
respectively the Open Source definition:
http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.html

I hope I could answer your questions,
Eric

Dan Polansky said:
> Hello Eric and others,
>
> the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.
>
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118
>
> It is as follows.
>
> All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
> (Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
> and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
> FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
> other image format than the original PNG.
>
> We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's consent.
> We do not have a vector graphics format version.
>
> We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image format.
>
> Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the
> logotype
> is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or suggestions
> for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind team
> should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?
>
> Best regards,
> Dan
>
>
> On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
>>
>> > As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that we
>> > can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author; that
>> > wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an argument
>> > against the new logo-set.
>>
>> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some vector
>> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of colors,
>> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
>>
>> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector version, if
>> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
>>
>> Dimitry
>>


-- 
Eric de France, d'Allemagne et de Navarre

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@gm...>]

Hello,

I am not sure if the license is compatible with the GNU GPL. I think 
that all graphics coming within FreeMind.jar must be free for reuse 
under the GPL, particularly a right to use the changed graphics in any 
GPL licensed products must be granted to anybody.

How do you think?

Dimitry


Dan Polansky schrieb:
> Hello Eric and others,
> 
> the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118
> 
> It is as follows.
> 
> All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
> (Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
> and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
> FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
> other image format than the original PNG.
> 
> We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's consent.
> We do not have a vector graphics format version.
> 
> We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image format.
> 
> Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the logotype
> is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or suggestions
> for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind team
> should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?
> 
> Best regards,
> Dan
> 
> 
> On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
>>> As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that we
>>> can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author; that
>>> wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an argument
>>> against the new logo-set.
>> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some vector
>> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of colors,
>> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
>>
>> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector version, if
>> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
>>
>> Dimitry
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
>> your
>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>> _______________________________________________
>> Freemind-developer mailing list
>> Freemind-developer@...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> Freemind-developer mailing list
> Freemind-developer@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> 

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@gm...>]

Hello,

AFAIK we've already had this discussion, so I am surprised to see you
suggesting again FreeMind's logo should be licenced under a free licence
like GNU GPL.

Debian's logo is not licenced under GNU GPL; it is not licenced under a free
licence in general. Logotypes are in general not licenced under open source
licences. Please check the following pages, where you can see under what
licences the logotypes are licenced.

http://www.debian.org/logos/
http://www.freebsd.org/art.html#USE

Also, could you please, instead of just arguing, do some research, based on
which your suggestions and claims are made? Do you know of some open source
application whose logotype is licenced under GNU GPL? Which one is it? Is
there a discussion they have lead on the licence of their logotype that we
could follow?

Best regards,
Daniel Polansky



On 3/17/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am not sure if the license is compatible with the GNU GPL. I think
> that all graphics coming within FreeMind.jar must be free for reuse
> under the GPL, particularly a right to use the changed graphics in any
> GPL licensed products must be granted to anybody.
>
> How do you think?
>
> Dimitry
>
>
> Dan Polansky schrieb:
> > Hello Eric and others,
> >
> > the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.
> >
> >
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118
> >
> > It is as follows.
> >
> > All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
> > (Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
> > and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
> > FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
> > other image format than the original PNG.
> >
> > We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's
> consent.
> > We do not have a vector graphics format version.
> >
> > We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image format.
> >
> > Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the
> logotype
> > is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or
> suggestions
> > for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind team
> > should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
> >>> As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that we
> >>> can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author; that
> >>> wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an argument
> >>> against the new logo-set.
> >> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some vector
> >> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of colors,
> >> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
> >>
> >> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector version,
> if
> >> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
> >>
> >> Dimitry
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> >> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> >> your
> >> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >>
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Freemind-developer mailing list
> >> Freemind-developer@...
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> >>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Freemind-developer mailing list
> > Freemind-developer@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
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>

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@gm...>]

Hello,

I have now created a wiki page containing part of my state of knowledge on
the logotype license.

http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Development/Logotype_License

Please enter your findings and links on the logotype licenses there.

Best regards,
Dan


On 3/18/07, Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> AFAIK we've already had this discussion, so I am surprised to see you
> suggesting again FreeMind's logo should be licenced under a free licence
> like GNU GPL.
>
> Debian's logo is not licenced under GNU GPL; it is not licenced under a
> free licence in general. Logotypes are in general not licenced under open
> source licences. Please check the following pages, where you can see under
> what licences the logotypes are licenced.
>
> http://www.debian.org/logos/
> http://www.freebsd.org/art.html#USE
>
> Also, could you please, instead of just arguing, do some research, based
> on which your suggestions and claims are made? Do you know of some open
> source application whose logotype is licenced under GNU GPL? Which one is
> it? Is there a discussion they have lead on the licence of their logotype
> that we could follow?
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel Polansky
>
>
>
> On 3/17/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am not sure if the license is compatible with the GNU GPL. I think
> > that all graphics coming within FreeMind.jar must be free for reuse
> > under the GPL, particularly a right to use the changed graphics in any
> > GPL licensed products must be granted to anybody.
> >
> > How do you think?
> >
> > Dimitry
> >
> >
> > Dan Polansky schrieb:
> > > Hello Eric and others,
> > >
> > > the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.
> > >
> > >
> > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118
> > >
> > > It is as follows.
> > >
> > > All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
> > > ( Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
> > > and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
> > > FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
> > > other image format than the original PNG.
> > >
> > > We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's
> > consent.
> > > We do not have a vector graphics format version.
> > >
> > > We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image format.
> > >
> > > Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the
> > logotype
> > > is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or
> > suggestions
> > > for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind team
> >
> > > should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@... > wrote:
> > >>> As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that
> > we
> > >>> can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author; that
> > >>> wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an argument
> > >>> against the new logo-set.
> > >> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some
> > vector
> > >> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of
> > colors,
> > >> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
> > >>
> > >> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector version,
> > if
> > >> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
> > >>
> > >> Dimitry
> > >>
> > >>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > >> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
> > share
> > >> your
> > >> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> > >>
> > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Freemind-developer mailing list
> > >> Freemind-developer@...
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> > >>
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
> > share your
> > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> > >
> > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Freemind-developer mailing list
> > > Freemind-developer@...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> > >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> > your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
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> > Freemind-developer@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> >
>
>

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Eric Lavarde - FreeMind <freemind@zo...>]

Hi,

OK, I think you are not correct but the result is the same. And, yes, I'm
not even sure of what I'm saying...

What I'm currently understanding is that there is trademark, copyright and
license. In a nutshell my understanding: copyright is basically the
author, license is what the author is ready to give for rights to others,
and trademark is more or less the look and feel of a certain
application/group/whatever.

And the open groups accept the fact that trademarks stand above any kind
of license/copyright issues. In other words, they accept the fact that
entities don't want others to look like they would speak for the entity.

As an example, we would also have an issue if someone would split the code
and continue to call it FreeMind and use the same logo, i.e. use what
should be "our" trademark.

So, 1st conclusion: you're right, I don't think we would have an issue
with Debian or other free projects.

So, remain two issues for me:
1. the trademark belongs currently more to Frank than to the FreeMind
project; whereas the logo alone (without the name) is not really special,
so it's probably not a big issue; but Frank could decide tomorrow to not
allow to use the logo anymore.
2. Chris already had the issue to get a logo with the size he needs, and
we're not in a position to get it, and rely on Frank, who you said is not
such an easy person. Furthermore, some people made enhancement
suggestions. Are we in a position to respond to those?

Thanks, Eric

Dan Polansky said:
> Hello,
>
> I have now created a wiki page containing part of my state of knowledge on
> the logotype license.
>
> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Development/Logotype_License
>
> Please enter your findings and links on the logotype licenses there.
>
> Best regards,
> Dan
>
>
> On 3/18/07, Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> AFAIK we've already had this discussion, so I am surprised to see you
>> suggesting again FreeMind's logo should be licenced under a free licence
>> like GNU GPL.
>>
>> Debian's logo is not licenced under GNU GPL; it is not licenced under a
>> free licence in general. Logotypes are in general not licenced under
>> open
>> source licences. Please check the following pages, where you can see
>> under
>> what licences the logotypes are licenced.
>>
>> http://www.debian.org/logos/
>> http://www.freebsd.org/art.html#USE
>>
>> Also, could you please, instead of just arguing, do some research, based
>> on which your suggestions and claims are made? Do you know of some open
>> source application whose logotype is licenced under GNU GPL? Which one
>> is
>> it? Is there a discussion they have lead on the licence of their
>> logotype
>> that we could follow?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Daniel Polansky
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/17/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I am not sure if the license is compatible with the GNU GPL. I think
>> > that all graphics coming within FreeMind.jar must be free for reuse
>> > under the GPL, particularly a right to use the changed graphics in any
>> > GPL licensed products must be granted to anybody.
>> >
>> > How do you think?
>> >
>> > Dimitry
>> >
>> >
>> > Dan Polansky schrieb:
>> > > Hello Eric and others,
>> > >
>> > > the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118
>> > >
>> > > It is as follows.
>> > >
>> > > All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
>> > > ( Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
>> > > and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
>> > > FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
>> > > other image format than the original PNG.
>> > >
>> > > We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's
>> > consent.
>> > > We do not have a vector graphics format version.
>> > >
>> > > We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image format.
>> > >
>> > > Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the
>> > logotype
>> > > is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or
>> > suggestions
>> > > for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind
>> team
>> >
>> > > should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > > Dan
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@... > wrote:
>> > >>> As a side note: the default without explicit license would be that
>> > we
>> > >>> can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author;
>> that
>> > >>> wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an
>> argument
>> > >>> against the new logo-set.
>> > >> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some
>> > vector
>> > >> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of
>> > colors,
>> > >> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
>> > >>
>> > >> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector
>> version,
>> > if
>> > >> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
>> > >>
>> > >> Dimitry
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> > >> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
>> > share
>> > >> your
>> > >> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn
>> cash
>> > >>
>> > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Freemind-developer mailing list
>> > >> Freemind-developer@...
>> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
>> > share your
>> > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
>> > >
>> > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Freemind-developer mailing list
>> > > Freemind-developer@...
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
>> > >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
>> share
>> > your
>> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
>> >
>> > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Freemind-developer mailing list
>> > Freemind-developer@...
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
>> >
>>
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> Freemind-developer mailing list
> Freemind-developer@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
>


-- 
Eric de France, d'Allemagne et de Navarre

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@gm...>]

Hi Eric,

I do not think Frank has a trademark on the logotype. Unlike copyright,
trademark is not something that holds automatically; you have to apply for
it and pay for it, AFAIK.

But I see your point with scaling the images; we should at least be able to
scale the images as we see fit. I have already sent an email to Frank Appel
asking him if he would grant us the right to modify the image, where you
were at the CC: list. In that mail, I also asked if he could send us a
scalable graphics version.

Still, as regards whether the license of the logotype should be an open
source one, meaning everyone outside FreeMind project would have the right
to use the images, that makes little sense to me. I do not know of a project
that would have such an open source license on its logotype; I will gladly
learn from you about such projects.

Best regards,
Dan


On 3/18/07, Eric Lavarde - FreeMind <freemind@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> OK, I think you are not correct but the result is the same. And, yes, I'm
> not even sure of what I'm saying...
>
> What I'm currently understanding is that there is trademark, copyright and
> license. In a nutshell my understanding: copyright is basically the
> author, license is what the author is ready to give for rights to others,
> and trademark is more or less the look and feel of a certain
> application/group/whatever.
>
> And the open groups accept the fact that trademarks stand above any kind
> of license/copyright issues. In other words, they accept the fact that
> entities don't want others to look like they would speak for the entity.
>
> As an example, we would also have an issue if someone would split the code
> and continue to call it FreeMind and use the same logo, i.e. use what
> should be "our" trademark.
>
> So, 1st conclusion: you're right, I don't think we would have an issue
> with Debian or other free projects.
>
> So, remain two issues for me:
> 1. the trademark belongs currently more to Frank than to the FreeMind
> project; whereas the logo alone (without the name) is not really special,
> so it's probably not a big issue; but Frank could decide tomorrow to not
> allow to use the logo anymore.
> 2. Chris already had the issue to get a logo with the size he needs, and
> we're not in a position to get it, and rely on Frank, who you said is not
> such an easy person. Furthermore, some people made enhancement
> suggestions. Are we in a position to respond to those?
>
> Thanks, Eric
>
> Dan Polansky said:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have now created a wiki page containing part of my state of knowledge
> on
> > the logotype license.
> >
> >
> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Development/Logotype_License
> >
> > Please enter your findings and links on the logotype licenses there.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > On 3/18/07, Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> AFAIK we've already had this discussion, so I am surprised to see you
> >> suggesting again FreeMind's logo should be licenced under a free
> licence
> >> like GNU GPL.
> >>
> >> Debian's logo is not licenced under GNU GPL; it is not licenced under a
> >> free licence in general. Logotypes are in general not licenced under
> >> open
> >> source licences. Please check the following pages, where you can see
> >> under
> >> what licences the logotypes are licenced.
> >>
> >> http://www.debian.org/logos/
> >> http://www.freebsd.org/art.html#USE
> >>
> >> Also, could you please, instead of just arguing, do some research,
> based
> >> on which your suggestions and claims are made? Do you know of some open
> >> source application whose logotype is licenced under GNU GPL? Which one
> >> is
> >> it? Is there a discussion they have lead on the licence of their
> >> logotype
> >> that we could follow?
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Daniel Polansky
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/17/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > I am not sure if the license is compatible with the GNU GPL. I think
> >> > that all graphics coming within FreeMind.jar must be free for reuse
> >> > under the GPL, particularly a right to use the changed graphics in
> any
> >> > GPL licensed products must be granted to anybody.
> >> >
> >> > How do you think?
> >> >
> >> > Dimitry
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dan Polansky schrieb:
> >> > > Hello Eric and others,
> >> > >
> >> > > the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118
> >> > >
> >> > > It is as follows.
> >> > >
> >> > > All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
> >> > > ( Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
> >> > > and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
> >> > > FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
> >> > > other image format than the original PNG.
> >> > >
> >> > > We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's
> >> > consent.
> >> > > We do not have a vector graphics format version.
> >> > >
> >> > > We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image
> format.
> >> > >
> >> > > Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the
> >> > logotype
> >> > > is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or
> >> > suggestions
> >> > > for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind
> >> team
> >> >
> >> > > should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?
> >> > >
> >> > > Best regards,
> >> > > Dan
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@... > wrote:
> >> > >>> As a side note: the default without explicit license would be
> that
> >> > we
> >> > >>> can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author;
> >> that
> >> > >>> wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an
> >> argument
> >> > >>> against the new logo-set.
> >> > >> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some
> >> > vector
> >> > >> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of
> >> > colors,
> >> > >> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector
> >> version,
> >> > if
> >> > >> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Dimitry
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> >> > >> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
> >> > share
> >> > >> your
> >> > >> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn
> >> cash
> >> > >>
> >> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> Freemind-developer mailing list
> >> > >> Freemind-developer@...
> >> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> >> > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
> >> > share your
> >> > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn
> cash
> >> > >
> >> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Freemind-developer mailing list
> >> > > Freemind-developer@...
> >> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> >> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to
> >> share
> >> > your
> >> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >> >
> >> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Freemind-developer mailing list
> >> > Freemind-developer@...
> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> > your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> > _______________________________________________
> > Freemind-developer mailing list
> > Freemind-developer@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
> >
>
>
> --
> Eric de France, d'Allemagne et de Navarre
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> Freemind-developer mailing list
> Freemind-developer@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemind-developer
>

Re: [Freemind-developer] License of Light Bulb

[Eric Lavarde <Eric@Lavar.de>]

Dan Polansky wrote:
> Hi Eric,
> 
> I do not think Frank has a trademark on the logotype. Unlike copyright,
> trademark is not something that holds automatically; you have to apply for
> it and pay for it, AFAIK.
I think you're right and that's why open source projects use the 
copyright/license to keep people from infringing their "virtual 
trademark", and that's why it's tolerated.

> 
> But I see your point with scaling the images; we should at least be able to
> scale the images as we see fit. I have already sent an email to Frank Appel
> asking him if he would grant us the right to modify the image, where you
> were at the CC: list. In that mail, I also asked if he could send us a
> scalable graphics version.
I've seen it, thank you for this, just makes me nervous that it didn't 
react yet.

> 
> Still, as regards whether the license of the logotype should be an open
> source one, meaning everyone outside FreeMind project would have the right
> to use the images, that makes little sense to me. I do not know of a project
> that would have such an open source license on its logotype; I will gladly
> learn from you about such projects.
I already admitted that you're right: "1st conclusion: you're right, I 
don't think we would have an issue with Debian or other free projects."

My only remaining issue is that we get the freedom within the project to 
modify the logotype, and you're working on this, so I'm fine for now.

Thanks, Eric

> 
> Best regards,
> Dan
> 
> 
> On 3/18/07, Eric Lavarde - FreeMind <freemind@...> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> OK, I think you are not correct but the result is the same. And, yes, I'm
>> not even sure of what I'm saying...
>>
>> What I'm currently understanding is that there is trademark, copyright and
>> license. In a nutshell my understanding: copyright is basically the
>> author, license is what the author is ready to give for rights to others,
>> and trademark is more or less the look and feel of a certain
>> application/group/whatever.
>>
>> And the open groups accept the fact that trademarks stand above any kind
>> of license/copyright issues. In other words, they accept the fact that
>> entities don't want others to look like they would speak for the entity.
>>
>> As an example, we would also have an issue if someone would split the code
>> and continue to call it FreeMind and use the same logo, i.e. use what
>> should be "our" trademark.
>>
>> So, 1st conclusion: you're right, I don't think we would have an issue
>> with Debian or other free projects.
>>
>> So, remain two issues for me:
>> 1. the trademark belongs currently more to Frank than to the FreeMind
>> project; whereas the logo alone (without the name) is not really special,
>> so it's probably not a big issue; but Frank could decide tomorrow to not
>> allow to use the logo anymore.
>> 2. Chris already had the issue to get a logo with the size he needs, and
>> we're not in a position to get it, and rely on Frank, who you said is not
>> such an easy person. Furthermore, some people made enhancement
>> suggestions. Are we in a position to respond to those?
>>
>> Thanks, Eric
>>
>> Dan Polansky said:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have now created a wiki page containing part of my state of knowledge
>> on
>>> the logotype license.
>>>
>>>
>> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Development/Logotype_License
>>> Please enter your findings and links on the logotype licenses there.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/18/07, Dan Polansky <dan.polansky@...> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> AFAIK we've already had this discussion, so I am surprised to see you
>>>> suggesting again FreeMind's logo should be licenced under a free
>> licence
>>>> like GNU GPL.
>>>>
>>>> Debian's logo is not licenced under GNU GPL; it is not licenced under a
>>>> free licence in general. Logotypes are in general not licenced under
>>>> open
>>>> source licences. Please check the following pages, where you can see
>>>> under
>>>> what licences the logotypes are licenced.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.debian.org/logos/
>>>> http://www.freebsd.org/art.html#USE
>>>>
>>>> Also, could you please, instead of just arguing, do some research,
>> based
>>>> on which your suggestions and claims are made? Do you know of some open
>>>> source application whose logotype is licenced under GNU GPL? Which one
>>>> is
>>>> it? Is there a discussion they have lead on the licence of their
>>>> logotype
>>>> that we could follow?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Daniel Polansky
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/17/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@...> wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure if the license is compatible with the GNU GPL. I think
>>>>> that all graphics coming within FreeMind.jar must be free for reuse
>>>>> under the GPL, particularly a right to use the changed graphics in
>> any
>>>>> GPL licensed products must be granted to anybody.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dimitry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan Polansky schrieb:
>>>>>> Hello Eric and others,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the licence of the logotype is specified in the following patch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246974&group_id=7118&atid=307118
>>>>>> It is as follows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the images are copyright (C) 2005 by Frank Appel
>>>>>> ( Foundax.com). The right is granted to distribute the icons
>>>>>> and the splash screen as part of free mind mapping software
>>>>>> FreeMind, either in their original form, or converted to
>>>>>> other image format than the original PNG.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We do not have right to modify the logotype without Frank Appel's
>>>>> consent.
>>>>>> We do not have a vector graphics format version.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have the right to convert the logotype to any other image
>> format.
>>>>>> Eric, you said that the state of affairs where we cannot modify the
>>>>> logotype
>>>>>> is not acceptable for you. Can you bring about some reasons or
>>>>> suggestions
>>>>>> for improvement of the licence? What rights do you think FreeMind
>>>> team
>>>>>> should get granted by Frank Appel? Based on what reasoning?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/14/07, Dimitry Polivaev <dpolivaev@... > wrote:
>>>>>>>> As a side note: the default without explicit license would be
>> that
>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> can't do any change to the logo-set without asking the author;
>>>> that
>>>>>>>> wouldn't be acceptable to me, and I would bring this as an
>>>> argument
>>>>>>>> against the new logo-set.
>>>>>>> In order to make changes in the logo one needs the logo in some
>>>>> vector
>>>>>>> graphic format. Changing the bitmaps, for instance changing of
>>>>> colors,
>>>>>>> replacing of texts and so on, does not work so easy and safe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could it be possible to ask the Author to send us the vector
>>>> version,
>>>>> if
>>>>>>> he is generally agreed that we could make some changes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dimitry

-- 
Gewalt ist die letzte Zuflucht der Inkompetenz.
     Violence is the Last Resort of the Incompetent.
         Gwalt jest ostatnem schronieniem niekompetencji.
             La violence est le dernier refuge de l'incompetence.
     ~ Isaac Asimov