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#45 Queen buys troops without taxes

Current
open-WWC1D
nobody
3
2022-05-17
2010-08-19
tefkab
No

As far as I remember, the queen/king was not able to buy troops in the original game if you did not pay taxes. At least, she didn't buy so much.
In the game I recently started, the queen bought a lot in the first years.

Discussion

  • Michael Vehrs

    Michael Vehrs - 2010-10-16

    Can anyone confirm this feature of the original game?

     
  • Janet Hunt

    Janet Hunt - 2011-02-21
    • labels: 1165074 -->
     
  • Michael Vehrs

    Michael Vehrs - 2012-01-15
    • labels: --> Unconfirmed
    • priority: 5 --> 3
     
  • Calebrw

    Calebrw - 2012-01-22

    I was able to at least partially confirm this. I held a couple "tea parties" and it wasn't until I sent treasure trains to Europe that the King added to the REF . As soon as I added two treasure trains, the REF increased each time at the end of the turn.

     
  • Mike Pope

    Mike Pope - 2013-01-16
    • labels: Unconfirmed --> Server Gameplay
    • status: open --> open-WWC1D
    • milestone: --> Current
     
  • Mike Pope

    Mike Pope - 2014-02-05

    Apparently according to the Col1 Strategy Guide, taxes revenue is used to fund the REF (no mention of treasure trains). See here

     
  • Mario

    Mario - 2022-04-08

    I can confirm that the monarch can add troops without collecting any taxes. However, very few of them are added. Here is a log from Col1 v3.

    Played as Dutch, difficulty Viceroy.

    • 1534 first tax raise, 2%. food party.
    • King adds regulars.
    • 1548 tax raise, 1%. lumber party.
    • 1562 tax raise, 3%. ore party.
    • 1576 tax raise, 2%. sugar party.
    • 1577 king adds regulars
    • 1596 tax raise, 4%. fur party.
    • 1600 tax raise, 7%. cloth party
    • 1605 king adds regulars
    • 1606 tax raise, 1%. coats party.
    • 1608 6600 Treasure arrives in Amsterdam. 0% share for the king...
    • 1610 4000 Treasure arrives in Amsterdam. 0% share for the king...
    • 1612 tax raise, 4%. Trade goods party.
    • 1615 king adds regulars
    • 1616 Declaration of Independence

    Each time the king dds just one regular. In the beginning, the monarch had
    47 regulars, 25 cavalry, 26 artillery, 14 galleons
    and at the declaration of independence he had
    51 regulars, 25 cavalry, 26 artillery, 14 galleons

    If there is a real interest in getting more WWC1D parameters, I could be willing to play the same game and accept some tax raises, so see how many troops are added in this case.

     
  • Mike Pope

    Mike Pope - 2022-04-25

    Looked at this again. I agree we now know that the monarch does not need a tax increase to add to the REF, which is particularly nice as that is where we are with FreeCol:-). So I think we are back at the possibility that the monarch might buys more if the taxes are rolling in, which we do not do.

    Now if you are really keen, I would not say no if you ran a few Col1 games with tax increases and collected the data like above. However I think the key issue here is settled, the remaining question is secondary. What would be really helpful is more data on the native behaviour --- there is a big cluster of open questions on the WWC1D wiki in this area.

    Otherwise much thanks for your effort here, sorry I was slow reacting. I have updated the WWC1D question on the wiki crediting your help.

     
  • Mario

    Mario - 2022-05-17

    I had another idea on this: couldn't I use those savegames together with cheat codes to artificially increase my tax rates and see how the REF changes? Unfortunately, nothing changes in respect to troop allocation by just raising the tax rate, instead you have to consider the actual tax revenue summing up over time.

    Test case: a savegame from 1607, when I knew some treasure trains were departing. I raised taxes to 75% via cheat code. 1607 I pay 375 gold in taxes from goods trading, and additional 3300 gold taxes from the treasure (50% of its value). Directly afterwards, 1 regular added and 1609 another regular is added. 1611 another treasure arrives, and I pay 2000 gold taxes. 1611 one regular is added and 1613 another regular added. In total, 4 regulars are added in 6 years. In the alternative play (at 0 tax revenue), no regular was added in those years, instead the next regular was added in 1615.

    In other words: it is clear that the monarch buys more units, given more tax revenue. Sorry for the blow in regard to the current FreeCol implementation. :) However, I admit not being keen on supporting this with useful numbers, because one would have to log the complete tax revenue (from goods trading and treasure trains) over time. Please feel free to flag this comment as inappropriate. :)

    Anyway, thanks a lot for commenting on this, and also for suggesting priorities for further WWC1D topics. I might indeed pick some. Investigating native behavior however seems difficult in that a) there are in Col1 really a lot of native interactions to log, and b) it often seems hard to reduce those to simple cases which allow drawing meaningful statistics. Not to forget c) that I prefer the native behavior in FreeCol.

     

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