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From: Andrew T. <ajt...@hi...> - 2005-11-17 04:32:08
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Great to hear from everyone - it really seems like we have a diverse and good team on board so far. In related news, I have wrapped up preliminary development of fofredux v0.2. There are a couple of things I would appreciate some feedback on: 1) timestamp in fof_update_feed doesn't actually do anything. I attempted to have it write the timestamp based on either the pubDate, or the dc:date fields in the field, but I couldn't get it to work and hoped one of you could figure it out. 2) Categories are done on a 1 feed to 1 category mapping per feed. However, I started to put in support for putting in a 1 feed can have many categories. This complicates a lot more of the code/sql entries, so I held off for the time being. What do you think? 3) Flagging was added as an int(4) field in the items table. However, what do you think the proper/most usable method would be, some set of bit fields, a enum, a 1 item to 1 flag (with flag table) or like categories a 1 item to many flags, therefore needed a flag table and a cross index table? 4) You may have noticed, I put up a quick logo at: http://fofredux.sourceforge.net/ what do you think about it, we could make the box with red and grey the "favicon" (with no writing). Andy -- Andrew Turner ajt...@hi... 42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA idealistic technocrat Photos - http://flickr.com/photos/ajturner Travel - http://highearthorbit.com/projects/location/ |
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From: Carlos K. <ck...@gm...> - 2005-11-17 15:05:11
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ajturner said: > There are a couple of things I would appreciate some feedbackon:1) timest= amp in fof_update_feed doesn't actually do anything. Iattempted to have it = write the timestamp based on either the pubDate,or the dc:date fields in th= e field, but I couldn't get it to work and hoped one of you could figure it= out. Oh my! Im checking the mail i've sent you last week where i've supposedly attached a patch to solve that issue, justo to find that there is no file attached. I'll send the patch tonight. I needed the correct dates from the feeds in order to calc weekly word count averages. >2) Categories are done on a 1 feed to 1 category mapping per feed.However, I started to put in support for putting in a 1 feed can havemany categories. This complicates a lot more of the code/sql entries,so I held off for the time being. What do you think? Wouldn't tags solve the categories problem ? A feed could have multiple tags, there wouldn't be the necessity of a father-child relationship between them. Carlos. |
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From: Andrew T. <ajt...@hi...> - 2005-11-17 15:13:52
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On 11/17/05, Carlos Kozuszko <ck...@gm...> wrote: > > Oh my! Im checking the mail i've sent you last week where i've > supposedly attached a patch to solve that issue, justo to find that > there is no file attached. I'll send the patch tonight. I needed the > correct dates from the feeds in order to calc weekly word count > averages. Yes - the current CVS checkin doesn't have any of patches applied to it. Devs should now go through and add these patches, etc. and check back in. Once it's all ok with this initial release - we should announce on the FoF forums. > > >2) Categories are done on a 1 feed to 1 category mapping per > feed.However, I started to put in support for putting in a 1 feed can > havemany categories. This complicates a lot more of the code/sql > entries,so I held off for the time being. What do you think? > > Wouldn't tags solve the categories problem ? A feed could have > multiple tags, there wouldn't be the necessity of a father-child > relationship between them. > Sure - but what is the mechanism for "tags"? I don't think a general folksonomy is necessary helpful - may be. I guess one could pull in from del.icio.us or technorati, or whatever. However, I know I would like a quick means to flag items as I'm reading. My method of operation would be to quickly scan through all article titles/intros, flag the ones I want to read and mark the others as "read" (past tense). Then go back through and actually *read* (silly english language when typing - this may be confusing) the articles that I've flagged. Then I may want to add additional tags at that point for actual article "archival". To review my suggestion: 1) Update all feeds, load view/frames 2) scan through, pressing the "flag" button next to all articles I want to actually read 3) mark all articles that aren't "flagged" as "read" 4) review "flagged" articles and optionally apply tags 5) pull up articles by just "flagged" or by any single, or combination, of = tags 6) eventually be able to publish (aggregate) a feed (ergo "feed on feeds"?) of a certain tagged item. Andy -- Andrew Turner ajt...@hi... 42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA |
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From: Carlos K. <ck...@gm...> - 2005-11-17 16:29:57
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andy said: >Yes - the current CVS checkin doesn't have any of patches applied toit. Devs should now go through and add these patches, etc. and checkback in... Should I send the patch to this list or add it in the Patches section of the site ? > To review my suggestion: > 3) mark all articles that aren't "flagged" as "read" An option to mark as read all articles that are flagged would do too. A question: What is the difference between your approach to categorize feeds and tagging ? I'd like to clarify that i was talking about tagging feeds mainly, although articles could be tagged too. Another idea, what do you think about internationalization ? I could easily translate the interface to spanish. |
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From: Kevin <ke...@dr...> - 2005-11-19 03:17:45
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A few issues. 1) I got an error on install.php where it was trying to create a table with an empty name. I had to add this line to init.php. $FOF_X_CATEGORY_FEED_TABLE = FOF_X_CATEGORY_FEED_TABLE; 2) Now i get this error when trying to view index.php Warning: main(panel.php) [function.main <http://www/%7Ekev/fofr_cvs/function.main>]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /data1/home/kev/WWW/fofr_cvs/index.php on line 23 3) on this page: menu.php?view=frames, The add feeds link has a typeo. '&' when it should be '?' 4) when I click on "view today's items" I get this error: Cannot query database. Have you run install.php <http://www/%7Ekev/fofr_cvs/install.php>? MySQL says: Unknown column 'category_description' in 'field list' 5) when clicking any links in the upper left frame, the target is that frame instead of the right frame. Looks good, thought. -Kevin |
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From: Andrew T. <ajt...@hi...> - 2005-11-19 04:32:26
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Thanks for the bug report Kevin - I will fix those this weekend and do a checkin. Any more thoughts on categories/tagging? Andy On 11/18/05, Kevin <ke...@dr...> wrote: > A few issues. > > 1) I got an error on install.php where it was trying to create a table > with an empty name. I had to add this line to init.php. > $FOF_X_CATEGORY_FEED_TABLE =3D FOF_X_CATEGORY_FEED_TABLE; > > 2) Now i get this error when trying to view index.php > Warning: main(panel.php) [function.main > <http://www/%7Ekev/fofr_cvs/function.main>]: failed to open stream: No > such file or directory in /data1/home/kev/WWW/fofr_cvs/index.php on line = 23 > > 3) on this page: menu.php?view=3Dframes, The add feeds link has a > typeo. '&' when it should be '?' > > 4) when I click on "view today's items" I get this error: > Cannot query database. Have you run install.php > <http://www/%7Ekev/fofr_cvs/install.php>? MySQL says: Unknown column > 'category_description' in 'field list' > > 5) when clicking any links in the upper left frame, the target is that > frame instead of the right frame. > > Looks good, thought. > > -Kevin > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today > Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam > for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7628&alloc_id=3D16845&op=3Dclick > _______________________________________________ > Fofredux-devel mailing list > Fof...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fofredux-devel > -- Andrew Turner ajt...@hi... 42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA idealistic technocrat Photos - http://flickr.com/photos/ajturner Travel - http://highearthorbit.com/projects/location/ |
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From: Benjamin S. <bs...@cr...> - 2005-11-19 06:16:28
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On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 11:32:24PM -0500, Andrew Turner wrote: > Thanks for the bug report Kevin - I will fix those this weekend and do > a checkin. > > Any more thoughts on categories/tagging? Yes: the short version is, I think feed categories should be handled by tagging, and an ability to tag individual posts should exist via the same mechanism. Regardless of whether or not we're going to walk down the reblog path, I think the ability for a user to tag specific entries for future reference will add additional functionality above and beyond the ability to "save / mark / star / whatever you want to call it" entries. Re-using the same mechanism for doing feed categories seems only logical. --Benjy |
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From: Carlos K. <ck...@gm...> - 2005-11-19 04:33:22
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El S=E1bado, 19 de Noviembre de 2005 00:21, Kevin escribi=F3: > A few issues. > > 1) I got an error on install.php where it was trying to create a table > with an empty name. I had to add this line to init.php. > $FOF_X_CATEGORY_FEED_TABLE =3D FOF_X_CATEGORY_FEED_TABLE; At installing type i've also had problems with the default values for some= =20 fields, i solved it with this change:=20 $query =3D <<<EOQ CREATE TABLE `$FOF_X_CATEGORY_FEED_TABLE` ( `id` int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment, =2D `category_id` int(11) NOT NULL default '', =2D `feed_id` int(11) NOT NULL default '', + `category_id` int(11) NOT NULL default 0, + `feed_id` int(11) NOT NULL default 0, PRIMARY KEY (`id`) ) TYPE=3DMyISAM; EOQ; Carlos. =2D-=20 Web Site: http://www.ckozus.com.ar Blog: http://www.ckozus.com.ar/blog Mis links: http://del.icio.us/ckozus |
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From: Kevin <ke...@dr...> - 2005-11-19 13:50:56
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Benjamin Stewart wrote: >On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 11:32:24PM -0500, Andrew Turner wrote: > > >>Thanks for the bug report Kevin - I will fix those this weekend and do >>a checkin. >> >>Any more thoughts on categories/tagging? >> >> > >Yes: the short version is, I think feed categories should be handled by >tagging, and an ability to tag individual posts should exist via the >same mechanism. Regardless of whether or not we're going to walk down >the reblog path, I think the ability for a user to tag specific entries >for future reference will add additional functionality above and beyond >the ability to "save / mark / star / whatever you want to call it" >entries. > >Re-using the same mechanism for doing feed categories seems only >logical. > >--Benjy > > It sounds like category vs. tag are very similar in functionality. To me, it sounds like category is a specialized type (subtype) of a tag. I guess the question is: What do categories give use that tagging does not. Is there any feature/behavior a category must do that can not be naturally supported by tags. I can think of one case where using tags on items as "categories" could break or at least require extra work to get the functionality to work as expected. What happens when a user decides to change the category(s) for a feed. If we are tagging new items to a category when they are inserted, what about all the old items already in the db. All those items would have to be updated to reflect the change in category for the feed they are in. --Kevin |
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From: Andrew T. <ajt...@hi...> - 2005-11-19 18:56:45
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Ok - fixed the bugs that cropped up for you. If you could please test it ag= ain. I, or someone, still needs to apply the timestamp patch - b/c the date/times aren't really working. I can see the benefits of having a user-defined taxonomy of tags. For one thing, many feeds supply the blog's categories for the item - so we could optionally apply these tags by default. I would also like to keep categories for a more general genre type of organization of feeds. For example, I want to pull up all of my "technology" feeds, but may not want to have that as a tag (where tags would be like mac, programming, php). But maybe not. If we are going to have tags - that iwll be a large infrastructure addition. For one thing, will need to begin by filling out the tag-item table, and then pulling this extra tables into all of the functions, etc. Anyone want to sign-up to implement tags? :) Andy On 11/19/05, Kevin <ke...@dr...> wrote: > Benjamin Stewart wrote: > > >On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 11:32:24PM -0500, Andrew Turner wrote: > > > > > >>Thanks for the bug report Kevin - I will fix those this weekend and do > >>a checkin. > >> > >>Any more thoughts on categories/tagging? > >> > >> > > > >Yes: the short version is, I think feed categories should be handled by > >tagging, and an ability to tag individual posts should exist via the > >same mechanism. Regardless of whether or not we're going to walk down > >the reblog path, I think the ability for a user to tag specific entries > >for future reference will add additional functionality above and beyond > >the ability to "save / mark / star / whatever you want to call it" > >entries. > > > >Re-using the same mechanism for doing feed categories seems only > >logical. > > > >--Benjy > > > > > It sounds like category vs. tag are very similar in functionality. To > me, it sounds like category is a specialized type (subtype) of a tag. > > I guess the question is: What do categories give use that tagging does > not. Is there any feature/behavior a category must do that can not be > naturally supported by tags. > > I can think of one case where using tags on items as "categories" could > break or at least require extra work to get the functionality to work as > expected. What happens when a user decides to change the category(s) > for a feed. If we are tagging new items to a category when they are > inserted, what about all the old items already in the db. All those > items would have to be updated to reflect the change in category for the > feed they are in. > > --Kevin > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today > Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam > for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7628&alloc_id=3D16845&op=3Dclick > _______________________________________________ > Fofredux-devel mailing list > Fof...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fofredux-devel > -- Andrew Turner ajt...@hi... 42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA idealistic technocrat Photos - http://flickr.com/photos/ajturner Travel - http://highearthorbit.com/projects/location/ |
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From: Kevin <ke...@dr...> - 2005-11-28 17:36:16
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Andrew said: > > I can see the benefits of having a user-defined taxonomy of tags. For > one thing, many feeds supply the blog's categories for the item - so > we could optionally apply these tags by default. I think this is a good idea to have the item category(s) carry over to tags. This would require having the add or update functions auto-create tags as needed to match the item categories. --=20 Kevin |
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From: Kevin <ke...@dr...> - 2005-11-21 19:44:00
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Andrew Turner wrote: > I can see the benefits of having a user-defined taxonomy of tags. For >one thing, many feeds supply the blog's categories for the item - so we >could optionally apply these tags by default. I would also like to keep >categories for a more general genre type of organization of feeds. For >example, I want to pull up all of my "technology" feeds, but may not wan= t >to have that as a tag (where tags would be like mac, programming, php). >But maybe not. Let me see if I understand you correctly. You see categories as either: 1) a completely separate concept separate of tags. (containers are used with feeds only, tags are used with items only) 2) a higher level grouping or container of tags. I really don't have an opinion either way. I *can* say that implementing option #1 will be much easier. --=20 Kevin |
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From: Andrew T. <ajt...@hi...> - 2005-11-21 20:20:25
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I think what I'm trying to say is tags are great - but are often too explicit/small. For example, in my del.icio.us tags, I tend to have 3 or 4 bookmarks with any 1 tag. This makes them not that useful for broad readings. I want more than just "cocoa" or "auto" tags. I want "Politics" or "Technology". I guess I'm just being too picky. Using tags in general would let me go ahead and mark these broad generalizations for feeds and then read a group of feeds based on "Technology" etc. So I think just supporting tags is fine (albeit much harder). What about the problem of "tag soup". People are very liberal with tagging - and not always consistent either. Any suggestions? Andy nilspace On 11/21/05, Kevin <ke...@dr...> wrote: > Andrew Turner wrote: > > > I can see the benefits of having a user-defined taxonomy of tags. For > >one thing, many feeds supply the blog's categories for the item - so we > >could optionally apply these tags by default. I would also like to keep > >categories for a more general genre type of organization of feeds. For > >example, I want to pull up all of my "technology" feeds, but may not wan= t > >to have that as a tag (where tags would be like mac, programming, php). > >But maybe not. > > Let me see if I understand you correctly. You see categories as either: > > 1) a completely separate concept separate of tags. (containers are used > with feeds only, tags are used with items only) > 2) a higher level grouping or container of tags. > > I really don't have an opinion either way. I *can* say that implementing > option #1 will be much easier. > > -- > Kevin > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today > Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam > for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28&alloc_id=16845&opclick > _______________________________________________ > Fofredux-devel mailing list > Fof...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fofredux-devel > -- Andrew Turner ajt...@hi... 42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA idealistic technocrat Photos - http://flickr.com/photos/ajturner Travel - http://highearthorbit.com/projects/location/ |
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From: Kevin <ke...@dr...> - 2005-11-28 17:47:53
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> I think what I'm trying to say is tags are great - but are often too > explicit/small. For example, in my del.icio.us tags, I tend to have 3 > or 4 bookmarks with any 1 tag. This makes them not that useful for > broad readings. I want more than just "cocoa" or "auto" tags. I want > "Politics" or "Technology". > > I guess I'm just being too picky. Using tags in general would let me > go ahead and mark these broad generalizations for feeds and then read > a group of feeds based on "Technology" etc. So I think just supporting > tags is fine (albeit much harder). > > What about the problem of "tag soup". People are very liberal with > tagging - and not always consistent either. Any suggestions? The tag consistency problem could be handled using tag aliases. Multiple names could be attached to tags and are only used for RSS item category auto-tagging. Example: I have an existing tag of "windows" I have a feed that uses the rss item category of "Windows XP" I create a tag alias "Windows XP" which points to the real tag "window= s" When the item is inserted and auto-tagged using the rss item category,= =20 it will follow the alias and tag the item using "windows", instead of "Windows XP" What do you think? Most of my rss feeds don't use the optional category feature, but I can see the value in this. --=20 Kevin |
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