flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Allright, the new sound system has been committed. The basics works as 
follow:

There is one SoundMgr that handles multiple SoundGroup classes.
Each SoundGroup class handles multiple SoundSample classes.

A SoundSample class defines the properties of each individual sound like 
pitch, volume, position, orientation, sound cone paramters, etc. This 
class can be created all over the code but *has* to be assigned to a 
SampelGroup before you can hear it. Current sample groups are "atc", 
"avionics" and "fx" for the master airplane effects. The position of a 
SoundSample is relative to (0,0,0) of the model and hence relative to 
the base position of the SampleGroup.

A SampleGroup class has to be assigned to the SoundManager to be heard 
and holds data of a group of samples (maybe 'sample cloud' might be a 
good description). This class has to be created for each individual 
model that can produce one or more sounds. The SampleGroup class can be 
altered by modifying it's volume, position and orientation. 
Repositioning this class also means repositioning all it's associated 
samples. Altering it's orientation also means repositioning the absolute 
(real world) position (and orientation) of the associated sound samples.

The SoundMagaer can be repositioned which basically means moving the 
listener around. It's also possible to alter the listener orientation en 
velocity with this class, together with the master volume.

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Curtis O. <cur...@gm...>]

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Erik Hofman wrote:

>
> Allright, the new sound system has been committed. The basics works as
> follow:
>
> There is one SoundMgr that handles multiple SoundGroup classes.
> Each SoundGroup class handles multiple SoundSample classes.
>
> A SoundSample class defines the properties of each individual sound like
> pitch, volume, position, orientation, sound cone paramters, etc. This
> class can be created all over the code but *has* to be assigned to a
> SampelGroup before you can hear it. Current sample groups are "atc",
> "avionics" and "fx" for the master airplane effects. The position of a
> SoundSample is relative to (0,0,0) of the model and hence relative to
> the base position of the SampleGroup.
>
> A SampleGroup class has to be assigned to the SoundManager to be heard
> and holds data of a group of samples (maybe 'sample cloud' might be a
> good description). This class has to be created for each individual
> model that can produce one or more sounds. The SampleGroup class can be
> altered by modifying it's volume, position and orientation.
> Repositioning this class also means repositioning all it's associated
> samples. Altering it's orientation also means repositioning the absolute
> (real world) position (and orientation) of the associated sound samples.
>
> The SoundMagaer can be repositioned which basically means moving the
> listener around. It's also possible to alter the listener orientation en
> velocity with this class, together with the master volume.
>

Hi Erik,

One quick question: will the sound configuration xml files need to change to
match the new system or will there be backwards compatibility?

Thanks,

Curt.
-- 
Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Curtis Olson wrote:

> Hi Erik,
> 
> One quick question: will the sound configuration xml files need to 
> change to match the new system or will there be backwards compatibility?

It's backwards compatible. I do plan a new format change to be able to 
position the sounds in 3d-model space instead of OpenAL/OpenGL space. 
That will require adding a a new <version/> xml tag but the omission of 
it will still mean the previous format.

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Alan T. <ajt...@v-...>]

Sorry to be the messenger, but compilation of soundmgr_openal.cxx and all
flightgear files using soundmgr_openal.hxx fails under VC90.

See attached build log.

I am using the 3rd part libraries as per
flightgear/source/projects/VC90/README.msvc.
 i.e.
(Precompiled librairies and headers for compiling Win32 executables with
VS2008 :
ftp://ftp.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Win32/MSVC/fgfs-win32-VS90-3rdParty
+OSG-20090628.zip)

Same error with more recent fgfs-win32-VS90-3rdParty+OSG-20090820.

Do I need a more recent version of OpenAL?

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Hofman [mailto:er...@eh...] 
Sent: 05 October 2009 08:45
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed


Curtis Olson wrote:

> Hi Erik,
> 
> One quick question: will the sound configuration xml files need to 
> change to match the new system or will there be backwards compatibility?

It's backwards compatible. I do plan a new format change to be able to 
position the sounds in 3d-model space instead of OpenAL/OpenGL space. 
That will require adding a a new <version/> xml tag but the omission of 
it will still mean the previous format.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Alan Teeder wrote:
> Sorry to be the messenger, but compilation of soundmgr_openal.cxx and all
> flightgear files using soundmgr_openal.hxx fails under VC90.

No problem, I already was expecting these reports since I can't test on 
all platforms.

> See attached build log.

It's beyond me why gcc didn't complain (I did compile with halt on all 
warnings) but I failed to include alc.h. Should be fixed in CVS now.

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Alan T. <ajt...@v-...>]

Thanks for fixing this. 

However the pre-built libraries referenced in README.msvc do have an old
version of alut.h which is missing the alcGetError and associated
definitions. I don´t know who maintains these useful archives.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Teeder [mailto:ajt...@v-...] 
Sent: 05 October 2009 11:37
To: 'FlightGear developers discussions'
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

Sorry to be the messenger, but compilation of soundmgr_openal.cxx and all
flightgear files using soundmgr_openal.hxx fails under VC90.

See attached build log.

I am using the 3rd part libraries as per
flightgear/source/projects/VC90/README.msvc.
 i.e.
(Precompiled librairies and headers for compiling Win32 executables with
VS2008 :
ftp://ftp.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Win32/MSVC/fgfs-win32-VS90-3rdParty
+OSG-20090628.zip)

Same error with more recent fgfs-win32-VS90-3rdParty+OSG-20090820.

Do I need a more recent version of OpenAL?

Alan

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Alan Teeder wrote:
> Thanks for fixing this. 
> 
> However the pre-built libraries referenced in README.msvc do have an old
> version of alut.h which is missing the alcGetError and associated
> definitions. I don´t know who maintains these useful archives.

It's not alut.h that defines these functions but it's alc.h
Maybe you need to include it in the project files somewhere?

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Alan T. <ajt...@v-...>]

Erik

Sorry, I gave the wrong missing name -- I should have written alutGetError,
as this is not in the older alut.h (or al.h or alc.h).
 
Apologies for the confusion.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Hofman [mailto:er...@eh...] 
Sent: 06 October 2009 20:48
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed



Alan Teeder wrote:
> Thanks for fixing this. 
> 
> However the pre-built libraries referenced in README.msvc do have an old
> version of alut.h which is missing the alcGetError and associated
> definitions. I don´t know who maintains these useful archives.

It's not alut.h that defines these functions but it's alc.h
Maybe you need to include it in the project files somewhere?

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Alan Teeder wrote:
> Erik
> 
> Sorry, I gave the wrong missing name -- I should have written alutGetError,
> as this is not in the older alut.h (or al.h or alc.h).

Hmm ok, I'll need to find a way around it then. Thanks for the report.

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Alan Teeder wrote:
> Erik
> 
> Sorry, I gave the wrong missing name -- I should have written alutGetError,
> as this is not in the older alut.h (or al.h or alc.h).

Ah that was just a matter of commenting out the proper section. Should 
be fixed now.

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Vivian M. <viv...@li...>]

Alan Teeder wrote:

> 
> Sorry to be the messenger, but compilation of soundmgr_openal.cxx and all
> flightgear files using soundmgr_openal.hxx fails under VC90.
> 
> See attached build log.
> 
> I am using the 3rd part libraries as per
> flightgear/source/projects/VC90/README.msvc.
>  i.e.
> (Precompiled librairies and headers for compiling Win32 executables with
> VS2008 :
> ftp://ftp.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Win32/MSVC/fgfs-win32-VS90-
> 3rdParty
> +OSG-20090628.zip)
> 
> Same error with more recent fgfs-win32-VS90-3rdParty+OSG-20090820.
> 
> Do I need a more recent version of OpenAL?
> 
> Alan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Hofman [mailto:er...@eh...]
> Sent: 05 October 2009 08:45
> To: FlightGear developers discussions
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed
> 
> 
> Curtis Olson wrote:
> 
> > Hi Erik,
> >
> > One quick question: will the sound configuration xml files need to
> > change to match the new system or will there be backwards compatibility?
> 
> It's backwards compatible. I do plan a new format change to be able to
> position the sounds in 3d-model space instead of OpenAL/OpenGL space.
> That will require adding a a new <version/> xml tag but the omission of
> it will still mean the previous format.
> 

I finally got around to updating FG/SG to Head. As we know - it fails under
MSVC9. Here's how I fixed it:

Downloaded and installed OpenAL 1.1 Core SDK from Creative Labs.

Downloaded freealut-1.1.0 from Creative Labs. Compiled it by converting the
MSVC 7 project files supplied to MSVC9, and including OpenAL 1.1 Core SDK.
Put the generated alut.dll in the active path.

Patched soundmgr_openal.cxx/hxx and sample_group.hxx with 

+#elif defined(_WIN32)
+# include <al.h>

or

+#elif defined(_WIN32)
+# include <al.h>
+# include <alc.h>
+# include <AL/alut.h>

as appropriate.

Built FG/SG with \freealut-1.1.0\include and \OpenAL 1.1 Core SDK\include.

Linked FG to \freealut-1.1.0\admin\VisualStudioDotNET\alut\Release and
OpenAL 1.1 Core SDK\libs\Win32.

As they say here in the UK "simples". Does it work - yes, except FG now
crashes on exit. I can now hear excellent sound, and nice new 3D clouds,
with almost no impact on framerate.

I expect Fred can come up with a better, easier way.

Vivian

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Geoff M. <ub...@ge...>]

> +#elif defined(_WIN32)
> +# include <al.h>
> +# include <alc.h>
> +# include <AL/alut.h>

Thanks Vivian!

For a long time now I have had to make this 
patch locally, since I too use the OpenAL SDK, 
and it no longer uses an 'AL' sub-directory.

It would also be great if this include block only
occurred in a _ONE_ header (hxx), and not in any
source(s) (cxx)...

And I chose to use a 'USE_OPENAL_SDK' switch,
rather than the 'generic' WIN32 switch... so
other WIN32 players can continue to still use 
<AL/al.h> etc, if they have it setup that way.

I hope this makes it into CVS sometime soon...

Regards,

Geoff.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Geoff McLane wrote:
> I hope this makes it into CVS sometime soon...

Was his soon enough? ;-)

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Geoff M. <ub...@ge...>]

On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 15:49 +0200, Erik Hofman wrote:
> Geoff McLane wrote:
> > I hope this makes it into CVS sometime soon...
> 
> Was his soon enough? ;-)
> 
> Erik

So slick and quick... thanks...

Geoff.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Nicolas Q. <nqu...@gm...>]

Hi Erik (sorry Erik ;))
Bit of background : I used to use Vivian setup when I first starting
building my own exe a while back (OpenAL SDK 1.1 + freealut 1.0.1) and sound
worked. I switched to Fredb's third party libs a few months back, sound
worked.

Now, I can build a working exe with my old/Vivian's setup, but get no
working sound (and no errors) but I do have the crash on exit. I believe
it's because we're trying to release the alcDevice and alcContext a second
time by calling AlutExit., after doing it manually in the stop method of the
soundmanager.

Anyone has sound on Vista64, with VC9, with latest CVS and OpenAL SDK 1.1 +
freealut 1.0.1 ?
Before anyone mentions hardware problems, I only have a generic software
device since Vista never had support for hardware 3d positional audio in
hardware through DirectSound, it was dropped before release. There never was
generic hardware positional audio support in Vista.

So only the "Generic Software" device available to OpenAL, thus cannot be
that my default device is a malfunctioning hw wrapper (we pass null to the
device selection code, so we get the default one, whatever it is)

And OpenAL works fine here, many other apps using the exact same dll, so I'm
at a bit of a loss at the moment to root that one out.

Will look further into it as time permits, but would love to hear if anyone
has to this setup working under Vista64, especially as it use to work (yes,
I've gotten rid of AL part of the 3rd party stuff to avoid it being
referenced, to make sure the SDK is used. I've triple checked everything)


Cheers, and thanks again Erik for working on the sound system.
Nic






On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Geoff McLane <ub...@ge...> wrote:

> On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 15:49 +0200, Erik Hofman wrote:
> > Geoff McLane wrote:
> > > I hope this makes it into CVS sometime soon...
> >
> > Was his soon enough? ;-)
> >
> > Erik
>
> So slick and quick... thanks...
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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>



-- 
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Remember, everyone is fighting a hard battle.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Nicolas Quijano wrote:
> Now, I can build a working exe with my old/Vivian's setup, but get no 
> working sound (and no errors) but I do have the crash on exit. I believe 
> it's because we're trying to release the alcDevice and alcContext a 
> second time by calling AlutExit., after doing it manually in the stop 
> method of the soundmanager.

I think this is fixed by a patch I just committed.
Since alut is initialized without a Context it shouldn't try to destroy 
it either.

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Vivian M. <viv...@li...>]

Erik Hofman

> 
> Nicolas Quijano wrote:
> > Now, I can build a working exe with my old/Vivian's setup, but get no
> > working sound (and no errors) but I do have the crash on exit. I believe
> > it's because we're trying to release the alcDevice and alcContext a
> > second time by calling AlutExit., after doing it manually in the stop
> > method of the soundmanager.
> 
> I think this is fixed by a patch I just committed.
> Since alut is initialized without a Context it shouldn't try to destroy
> it either.
> 

Nope, that doesn't fix it - still get crash on exit. But I no longer get
sound stopping when I change window size at runtime. 

Vivian

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Vivian Meazza wrote:

> Nope, that doesn't fix it - still get crash on exit. But I no longer get
> sound stopping when I change window size at runtime. 

You might want to comment out some code in SGSoundMgr::~SGSoundMGr to 
see what exactly might cause it.

Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Nicolas Q. <nqu...@gm...>]

(Most of this written last night before bed)
Hi all, commenting out code in the destructor won't help, as the problem is
being set-up much earlier, while FGFS is still in the initialization stages
(dt == 0) : in debug, there is a fatal assert on SGSoundSample::freedata,
being called by SGSoundMgr::requestBuffer, line 429), itself being called
from SGSampleGroup::update (line 104), rumble.wav, ultimately going back up
the call chain to fgOSMainLoop.
I suspect the exit bug in Release is when it starts freeing stuff that's not
there to be freed. I say suspect 'cause I can't get there in Debug, as it
fails before finishing complete initialization.

the alutinit++ stuff is wrong : alutinit is at 2 at the time the destructor
checks it, thus never calling alutExit (not that it matters, alutInit does
nothing but set a flag variable in the variant we use)
there is one incrementation too much in there, and since it can only be
initialized once, why track a number ?

I believe SoundManager::load might be where it's all happening, or starting
to happen.

You do use a weird param setup, assigning unitialized values from pointers
to stack variables then passing the address of the stack variables as
params, only to write them back in the pointers at the end :)

It returns garbage on trying to load the ATC voice, maybe because there is
no valid AL context as the (internal) message error says, before the catch
code gets rid of it. Doesn't assert there 'though, churns on until it gets
to rumble.wav.

Why is SoundManager::load a static member function ? it's never called that
way, and always as a member function, so why ? (not major, but bad form)

Also, if (_data != NULL) { delete[] _data; _data = NULL; } in free_data() in
sample_openal.hxx is the offending party (in debug). I believe delete[] is
the problem, _data not explicitly being an array (and not using new in any
shape or form)


Will look more into it, but if more people, not just on windows, could take
some time to run the new sound system in debug, we might root out a few bugs
in it while we're at it.

Could you guys build in debug and run it through and see what you come up
with ?
I'm sure Erik could use the help.

Hope this helps, will investigate further,
Cheers,
Nic




On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:05 AM, Erik Hofman <er...@eh...> wrote:

> Vivian Meazza wrote:
>
> > Nope, that doesn't fix it - still get crash on exit. But I no longer get
> > sound stopping when I change window size at runtime.
>
> You might want to comment out some code in SGSoundMgr::~SGSoundMGr to
> see what exactly might cause it.
>
> Erik
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
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>



-- 
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Remember, everyone is fighting a hard battle.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

Hi Nicolas,

Nicolas Quijano wrote:
> (Most of this written last night before bed)
> Hi all, commenting out code in the destructor won't help, as the problem 
> is being set-up much earlier, while FGFS is still in the initialization 
> stages (dt == 0) : in debug, there is a fatal assert on 
> SGSoundSample::freedata, being called by SGSoundMgr::requestBuffer, line 
> 429), itself being called from SGSampleGroup::update (line 104), 
> rumble.wav, ultimately going back up the call chain to fgOSMainLoop.
> I suspect the exit bug in Release is when it starts freeing stuff that's 
> not there to be freed. I say suspect 'cause I can't get there in Debug, 
> as it fails before finishing complete initialization.

Thanks for the hint. I believe I've found the cause of it after reading 
this section. Let me know if it helps.

> the alutinit++ stuff is wrong : alutinit is at 2 at the time the 
> destructor checks it, thus never calling alutExit (not that it matters, 
> alutInit does nothing but set a flag variable in the variant we use)
> there is one incrementation too much in there, and since it can only be 
> initialized once, why track a number ?

Hm that was a left over from a previous version. I thought I'd removed 
the line. Anyhow, Although FlightGear doesn't use the soundmanager class 
twice anymore I did use it to load sample while the 'real' soundmanager 
was not yet active (and nothing is preventing you from doing so). So 
I'll leave the code there, just in case.

> Why is SoundManager::load a static member function ? it's never called 
> that way, and always as a member function, so why ? (not major, but bad 
> form)

This is from the time when it was called from the soundgroup class, but 
you are right, it's not needed anymore.

> Could you guys build in debug and run it through and see what you come 
> up with ?
> I'm sure Erik could use the help.

Actually I've asked for help several times, so yeas please report 
anything that might be wrong.

Erik

[Flightgear-devel] Patch: New Sound System on Windows

[Olaf F. <fg...@of...>]

Hi Erik,

I need attached patch to compile the new sound system on Windows.

I use alut/openal headers and libs from Frederic:

ftp://ftp.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Win32/MSVC/fgfs-win32-VS90-3rdParty+OSG-20090820.zip

Cheers,
    Olaf

BTW: If you are doing commits: Please remove my MSVC80 project files 
from the flightgear repository. project/VC80. I will not update them any 
more.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Patch: New Sound System on Windows

[Tom P <zo...@gm...>]

Hi Erik

If you plan on doing the commit Olaf asked, could you also move the 
top-level FlightGear.dsp and .dsw into a
directory named projects/VC60/

Those files are old, and just plain confusing if they are left at the 
top level.

  Tom


Olaf Flebbe wrote:
> Hi Erik,
>
> I need attached patch to compile the new sound system on Windows.
>
> I use alut/openal headers and libs from Frederic:
>
> ftp://ftp.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Win32/MSVC/fgfs-win32-VS90-3rdParty+OSG-20090820.zip 
>
>
> Cheers,
>    Olaf
>
> BTW: If you are doing commits: Please remove my MSVC80 project files 
> from the flightgear repository. project/VC80. I will not update them 
> any more.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Patch: New Sound System on Windows

[Olaf F. <fg...@of...>]

Hi,

> 
> If you plan on doing the commit Olaf asked, could you also move the 
> top-level FlightGear.dsp and .dsw into a
> directory named projects/VC60/
> 
> Those files are old, and just plain confusing if they are left at the 
> top level.

And btw, they do not work at all....

Olaf

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Alasdair C. <al...@bt...>]

On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 11:50 +0200, Erik Hofman wrote:
> I finally found why the sound orientation was wrong, this should now be 
> fixed in CVS (sound positioning relative to the aircraft origin is still 
> to be done).
> 
> Erik
> 
CVS as off 10 minutes ago gives me SimGear compile error:

sample_openal.cxx: In member function ‘void
SGSoundSample::set_relative_position(SGVec3f)’:
sample_openal.cxx:167: error: no match for ‘operator=’ in
‘((SGSoundSample*)this)->SGSoundSample::_relative_pos = pos’
../../simgear/math/SGMathFwd.hxx:37: note: candidates are:
SGVec3<double>& SGVec3<double>::operator=(const SGVec3<double>&)
make[2]: *** [sample_openal.o] Error 1

Am I alone?

regards

Alasdair

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed

[Erik H. <er...@eh...>]

I finally found why the sound orientation was wrong, this should now be 
fixed in CVS (sound positioning relative to the aircraft origin is still 
to be done).

Erik