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From: Wolfgang K. <wol...@gm...> - 2005-08-17 08:31:04
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Hello, it's mentioned on the web site that you want to allow for implementation of extensions for/customisation of Fisterra in Python, but I couldn't find any further information on the actual state of Python support in Fisterra 2...? TIA, Sincerely, Wolfgang Keller -- P.S.: My From-address is correct |
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From: Alejandro G. C. <ac...@ig...> - 2005-08-17 08:47:14
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On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 10:30:52AM +0200, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > Hello, > > it's mentioned on the web site that you want to allow for > implementation of extensions for/customisation of Fisterra in Python, > but I couldn't find any further information on the actual state of > Python support in Fisterra 2...? > None, it is a pity but we have not time to work on this feature :-/. We still have not plans to work on it, just some ideas about Gazpacho integration. Best regards. -- Alejandro Garcia Castro mailto: ac...@ig... http://www.igalia.com |
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From: Wolfgang K. <wol...@gm...> - 2005-08-17 16:44:14
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Hallo, > None, it is a pity but we have not time to work on this feature :-/. Maybe you would have more time if you had implemented only the common base infrastructure for Fisterra in C(++) and all the upper-level "business logic" in Python from the start... *duck* :-) Because Python is really pretty readable/usable for non-developers, so domain specialists could help directly with the implementation. Sincerely, Wolfgang Keller -- P.S.: My From-address is correct |
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From: Alejandro G. C. <ac...@ig...> - 2005-08-17 17:28:22
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On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 06:43:53PM +0200, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > Hallo, > > > None, it is a pity but we have not time to work on this feature :-/. > > Maybe you would have more time if you had implemented only the common > base infrastructure for Fisterra in C(++) and all the upper-level > "business logic" in Python from the start... *duck* :-) Because > Python is really pretty readable/usable for non-developers, so > domain specialists could help directly with the implementation. > Maybe you are right, that's why we are interested on this feature indeed. Until now we were devoting our resources to other basic issues, the business logic reuse system it is going to be pretty interesting, I'll like to see it python-integrated. Anyway, I hope we could know if you are right in the future ;-), thank you for your advise. Best Regards. -- Alejandro Garcia Castro mailto: ac...@ig... http://www.igalia.com |
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From: Wolfgang K. <wol...@gm...> - 2005-08-18 16:36:52
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Hello, a different question that arose when reading the Fisterra documentation: Did anyone pick up your proposal for specifying/implementing a server-side equivalent of the GNOME desktop environment for server-side "enterprise" applications including services such as e.g. security, persistence, transactions etc.? Or could you find anyone else already working on such a project? TIA, Sincerely, Wolfgang Keller -- P.S.: My From-address is correct |
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From: Alejandro G. C. <ac...@ig...> - 2005-08-18 19:47:44
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On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 11:29:42AM +0200, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > Hello, > > a different question that arose when reading the Fisterra > documentation: > > Did anyone pick up your proposal for specifying/implementing a > server-side equivalent of the GNOME desktop environment for > server-side "enterprise" applications including services such as e.g. > security, persistence, transactions etc.? Or could you find anyone > else already working on such a project? > Well, some people are interested, but our community is still smaller than we would like ;-). AFAIK there are some other projects using glib-gobject on the server side, two examples that you can browse are evolution-data-server and aspl-fact. Using GNOME technology there are some projects that has to do with business applications, for example: pygestor, tinyerp or gctb. Currently glom or gazpacho are also trying to implement a fast development environment of the this kind of applications. As a complementary vision we are devoting more effort on the code reuse of concrete business analysis on a multiuser environment, this is our actual aim. I hope we can sum efforts as soon as posible wiht these related projects and others because is the main reason we are using GNOME technologies. Greetings. -- Alejandro Garcia Castro mailto: ac...@ig... http://www.igalia.com |
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From: Wolfgang K. <wol...@gm...> - 2005-08-19 07:48:30
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Hello, > Well, some people are interested, but our community is still smaller > than we would like ;-). Unfortunately the original GNOME developers didn't seem to see the lack of server-side infrastructure or didn't want to work on it and went somewhere else... > AFAIK there are some other projects using glib-gobject on the server > side, two examples that you can browse are evolution-data-server and > aspl-fact. Using GNOME technology there are some projects that has > to do with business applications, for example: pygestor, tinyerp or > gctb. I already know about TinyERP. Maybe it would be possible to split-off the application server and workflow engine into seperate projects that would then be available for other projects as well. That would already give two essential components. Others would be security, transactions... > Currently glom or gazpacho are also trying to implement a fast > development environment of the this kind of applications. In fact there seem to be plenty of individual projects especially in spanish-speaking countries that try to do more or less the same thing. But as long as they don't get their resources together and co-ordinate their effort to integrate common basic infrastructure components into something like a "GNOME enterprise edition"... > As a complementary vision we are devoting more effort on the code > reuse of concrete business analysis on a multiuser environment, this > is our actual aim. Well, that comes on top of the infrastructure. And it should use tools that are usable by domain experts, who are not necessarily developers. Sincerely, Wolfgang Keller -- P.S.: My From-address is correct |
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From: Alejandro G. C. <ac...@ig...> - 2005-08-19 09:14:34
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On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 09:48:19AM +0200, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > Hello, > > [...] > > > As a complementary vision we are devoting more effort on the code > > reuse of concrete business analysis on a multiuser environment, this > > is our actual aim. > > Well, that comes on top of the infrastructure. And it should use tools > that are usable by domain experts, who are not necessarily developers. > This is very important, my point of view about this topic is that the experts may known the use of tools like: umbrello and docbook. The development environment must be able to implement that specification of the expert as detailed as posible and must be also reusable in all the projects implemented, meaning easily included and extended. The latter feature when we talk about a module implementing a solution proposed for example in Martin Fowler's "Analysis Patterns: Reusable Object Models", that are data dependent, I think is the most important for the environment, we increase the speed of the development reusing the parts of these good solutions: widgets, communications, logic or storage. We hope our current module definition will allow us this kind of develpment. Greetings. -- Alejandro Garcia Castro mailto: ac...@ig... http://www.igalia.com |
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From: Wolfgang K. <wol...@gm...> - 2005-08-22 08:51:01
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Hallo,
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 09:48:19AM +0200, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > As a complementary vision we are devoting more effort on the code
>> > reuse of concrete business analysis on a multiuser environment, this
>> > is our actual aim.
>>
>> Well, that comes on top of the infrastructure. And it should use tools
>> that are usable by domain experts, who are not necessarily developers.
>>
> This is very important, my point of view about this topic is that the
> experts may known the use of tools like: umbrello and docbook.
Well, Python is really fine, due to its "pseudo-code"-lookalike
nature.
And if the original Gnome developer team had concentrated on
completing the Corba services in GNOME to turn it into something close
to a full reference implementation of Corba, then there would be
everything a "non-professional" developer could dream of imho. Because
with such a complete infrastructure, all you have to do is implement
the application ("business") logic, and that's easy in Python.
I would bet that Mono will never provide something comparable to such
a full Corba infrastructure. Apart from its ties with Microsoft,
obviously.
Sincerely,
Wolfgang Keller
--
P.S.: My From-address is correct
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From: Javier F. <jfe...@ig...> - 2005-08-24 11:40:53
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El lun, 22-08-2005 a las 10:50 +0200, Wolfgang Keller escribi=F3:
> Well, Python is really fine, due to its "pseudo-code"-lookalike
> nature.
>=20
> And if the original Gnome developer team had concentrated on
> completing the Corba services in GNOME to turn it into something close
> to a full reference implementation of Corba, then there would be
> everything a "non-professional" developer could dream of imho. Because
> with such a complete infrastructure, all you have to do is implement
> the application ("business") logic, and that's easy in Python.
I think python is a very good languaje to perform fast developemt,
including if developers are not professional. But im disagree when you
says that experts can use pytoh to program business logic. I think that
this is not a common situation; the business logic use to be a very
complex program task, and u doubt if expertts are able to make an
acceptable code.
--=20
Javier Fern=E1ndez Garc=EDa-Boente
Ingeniero en Inform=E1tica =20
mailto:jfe...@ig... =20
Igalia S.L. http://www.igalia.com
Telf. +34 981 91 39 91 =20
Fax. +34 981 91 39 49
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From: D. P. <jd...@ig...> - 2005-08-24 12:06:58
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El mi=E9, 24-08-2005 a las 13:40 +0200, Javier Fernandez escribi=F3:
> El lun, 22-08-2005 a las 10:50 +0200, Wolfgang Keller escribi=F3:
>=20
> > Well, Python is really fine, due to its "pseudo-code"-lookalike
> > nature.
> >=20
> > And if the original Gnome developer team had concentrated on
> > completing the Corba services in GNOME to turn it into something close
> > to a full reference implementation of Corba, then there would be
> > everything a "non-professional" developer could dream of imho. Because
> > with such a complete infrastructure, all you have to do is implement
> > the application ("business") logic, and that's easy in Python.
>=20
> I think python is a very good languaje to perform fast developemt,
> including if developers are not professional. But im disagree when you
> says that experts can use pytoh to program business logic. I think that
> this is not a common situation; the business logic use to be a very
> complex program task, and u doubt if expertts are able to make an
> acceptable code.
I think the huge complexity of business logic is enough. A friendlier
language should be a way to help to implement this kind of tasks,
without worrying about some things which are not related to business.
Python is a good language for this, because it enables you to target
your efforts in bussiness logic, forgetting a lot of issues about
implementation (pointers and memory management, compilation environment,
etc). And, in the top of all these things, the loose of efficiency
should be minimal, because you are accessing to a relational database,
which should be a slower task for the system.
For me, enabling the user to use development environments with lighter
or null compilation environments would be a big improvement in Fisterra
SDK.
--=20
Jos=E9 Dapena Paz
Ingeniero en Inform=E1tica
Telf: +34 981 91 39 91 ext. 15
Fax: +34 981 91 39 49
mailto:jd...@ig...
IGALIA, S.L. http://www.igalia.com
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