From: marius a. p. <ma...@gm...> - 2010-05-07 12:08:02
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I did some experiments with pdftohtml and here are some results http://firebirdsql.ro/images/LANGREF.html http://firebirdsql.ro/images/LANGREF.xml and here are the steps i have made to reach it http://mapopa.blogspot.com/2010/05/transforming-old-interbase-60-docs-from.html |
From: GR <fir...@ma...> - 2010-05-07 18:59:02
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Hi Sorry, Marius, but i think, that we must fully _rewrite_ langref (and not only langref), not simple transform it. There are too many reasons for it... WBR, GR |
From: Helen B. <he...@ii...> - 2010-05-07 20:33:14
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At 06:57 AM 8/05/2010, GR wrote: >Hi > >Sorry, Marius, but i think, that we must fully _rewrite_ >langref (and not only langref), not simple transform it. >There are too many reasons for it... In fact, I have the Framemaker 6 sources for the IB 6 docs that were corrected and updated by pre-Firebird open source community members (most notably by Claudio Valderrama, to a lesser extent by Ann Harrison and me) back in 2000. I have commercial tools that can export FM source to DocBook source, although I'm using them primarily to convert from FM, Word and various other formats to DITA, in a complex project related to my work for IBPhoenix Publications. The point I make is that it's not the access to the source materials that is the inhibitor to recycling the Borland stuff. It is that Inprise, later Borland, now Embarcadero, have been unwilling to open the doc sources. The commercial arguments against that ever coming about are obvious. Since acquiring the content using any PDF-to-something tool violates the licensing terms regarding decompilation of Embarcadero assets, the wide availability of such tools doesn't help us. Now, as then, there is no choice but to rewrite from scratch. But, even if the source were available to us, it is not mainly the need to rewrite that inhibits the progress of Firebird documentation, but the lack of [re]writers willing to develop content. We delude ourselves to claim otherwise. IMO, the standard set by Paul V in the LangRef updates makes the fresh Firebird langref stuff more user-friendly than the Borland predecessors, anyway. Incidentally, the format of the on-line language resources published by the DITA community for DITA (sourced in DITA, natch!) seem to me to be a lot more user-friendly than B-N diagrams. For a sample (DITA 1.1 spec, not the more recent 1.2) see http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.1/OS/langspec/ditaref-type.html#refsyn and scroll down to the Table of Contents... Helen |
From: GR <fir...@ma...> - 2010-05-07 22:33:39
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Hi, Helen. > The point I make is that it's not the access to the source materials that is > the inhibitor to recycling the Borland stuff. It is that Inprise, later Borland, > now Embarcadero, have been unwilling to open the doc sources. > The commercial arguments against that ever coming about are obvious. > > Since acquiring the content using any PDF-to-something tool violates the > licensing terms regarding decompilation of Embarcadero assets, the wide > availability of such tools doesn't help us. Now, as then, there is no choice > but to rewrite from scratch. Fully agree. In russian communities we already discussed it. There are no choises to import-and-use or transform or even copy-paste Langref text to our docs - the only solution is to write (rewrite as I said) it from scratch. > But, even if the source were available to us, it is not mainly the need to > rewrite that inhibits the progress of Firebird documentation, but the lack > of [re]writers willing to develop content. We delude ourselves to claim otherwise. It seem's, I misunderstood you. You suggest not to [re]write it, but to write new docs so after some time we do not need original Langref? In russian we've already made some steps in this, but in english... I think Langref (our Langref - Full SQL Reference, not original) is the first-priority task for us, may be even main (except RN, of course). > IMO, the standard set by Paul V in the LangRef updates makes the fresh > Firebird langref stuff more user-friendly than the Borland predecessors, anyway. There are several opinions about it. :-) I personally agree - Langref is too "heavy" and less user-friendly than LRUs. But I've heard many (too many) "coment" about this - there is much to improve. Sorry, Paul, I'm really very grateful to you (and all others who do this work). :-) > Incidentally, the format of the on-line language resources published by the > DITA community for DITA (sourced in DITA, natch!) seem to me to be a lot > more user-friendly than B-N diagrams. How it relates to subj? You suggest to use DITA instead of DOCBOOK ? Or this is just an example of good doc? WBR, GR |
From: Paul V. <pa...@vi...> - 2010-05-08 00:40:22
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GR wrote: >> IMO, the standard set by Paul V in the LangRef updates makes the fresh >> Firebird langref stuff more user-friendly than the Borland predecessors, >> anyway. > There are several opinions about it. :-) I personally agree - Langref is > too "heavy" and less user-friendly than LRUs. But I've heard many (too many) > "coment" about this - there is much to improve. Sorry, Paul, I'm really very > grateful to you (and all others who do this work). :-) No reason to say sorry at all. I'm sure there's a lot that can be improved. But for this, it would be helpful if comments and criticism were somehow (re)directed to firebird-docs instead of just being exchanged in a separate community. Cheers, Paul Vinkenoog |
From: GR <fir...@ma...> - 2010-05-08 08:48:52
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> Ultimately one could foresee a LangRef that was fully integrated. > But it won't happen until our project has a regular group of writers working on such a goal. Agree. OK, let's continue our work everybody and see what happens. > B-N diagrams are useful for the people who are trying to implement the element or write tools. > But DocBook doesn't have the granularity to deliver that drill-down structure out of the box. There are many other forms besides B-N diagrams... I think this is not the main problem. WBR, GR |