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From: Tommi P. <tom...@su...> - 2022-08-25 03:53:38
|
I’ll investigate that later. Thanks. -Tee- From: James Starkey <ji...@ji...> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2022 4:16 PM To: For discussion among Firebird Developers <fir...@li...> Subject: Re: [Firebird-devel] (possible) Database header Of course there should. The ODS was designed with extensibility in mind, so the initial part of the header page was sacrosanct (i.e. immutable). This was an essential part of the architecture for forward and backward compatibility. The Y-valve, by design, would pass a connection string to all available engines until one was able to open the file and determine from the database header whether it could manage that database. Since the original architecture was robust and there was no rational reason to change it, I have very little doubt that you just open the a database file, read enough of the header page to get the ODS, and proceed from there. On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 12:14 AM Tommi Prami <tom...@su...<mailto:tom...@su...>> wrote: Hello, I was thinking that if there is some kind of header (simple enough) in Firebird Databases and/or backup files, maybe some one could point me into the right direction. I would preferably need (mainly for installer) small tool that would check the ODS version of the DB before I try to connect into it. And depending on that, do some preprocessing if needed or make some other choices based upon that. Currently I open the database and detect ODS version that way, but it makes life bit too complicated. -Tee- Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Jim Starkey |
|
From: Tommi P. <tom...@su...> - 2022-08-25 03:50:21
|
same to use our own utility, gstat needs client libraries as well as our own, so we do not gain anything. Thanks for info. -Tee- -----Original Message----- From: Tommi Prami <tom...@su...> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2022 10:21 AM To: For discussion among Firebird Developers <fir...@li...> Subject: Re: [Firebird-devel] (possible) Database header Dang... Try to use GStat instead. -Tee- -----Original Message----- From: Dimitry Sibiryakov <sd...@ib...> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2022 1:11 PM To: For discussion among Firebird Developers <fir...@li...> Subject: Re: [Firebird-devel] (possible) Database header Tommi Prami wrote 23.08.2022 5:40: > I was thinking that if there is some kind of header (simple enough) in > Firebird Databases and/or backup files, maybe some one could point me > into the right direction. No. Of course Firebird database has header page described in ods.h but it has no signature and even "fixed" part is unstable between versions. The utility must read whole fist kilobyte and try to map that data to several expected header versions checking whether several fields has sane values. -- WBR, SD. Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel |
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From: Adriano d. S. F. <adr...@gm...> - 2022-08-25 01:16:02
|
On 24/08/2022 08:45, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: > > I propose this name convention starting with Firebird 5: > Here is my updated proposal based on the discussion so far: Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-windows-x86-withDebugSymbols.exe Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-windows-x86-withDebugSymbols.zip Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-windows-x86.exe Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-windows-x86.zip Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-windows-x64-withDebugSymbols.exe Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-windows-x64-withDebugSymbols.zip Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-windows-x64.exe Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-windows-x64.zip Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-x64.tar.gz Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-x64-debugSymbols.tar.gz Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-android-arm.tar.gz (armv7, other?) Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-android-arm-withDebugSymbols.tar.gz Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-android-arm64.tar.gz Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-android-arm64-withDebugSymbols.tar.gz Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-x86.tar.gz Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-x86-debugSymbols.tar.gz Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-source.tar.xz Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-macos-x64.pkg Adriano |
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From: Adriano d. S. F. <adr...@gm...> - 2022-08-25 00:59:23
|
On 24/08/2022 09:32, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: > On 8/24/22 15:03, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: >> On 24/08/2022 08:59, Mark Rotteveel wrote: >>> On 24-08-2022 13:45, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: >>>> This is our Firebird 4.0.2 released files: >>>> >>> [..] >>>> It's difficult to understand, they do not mention OS and hardware >>>> architectures are inconsistent. >>>> >>>> I propose this name convention starting with Firebird 5: >>> [..] >>>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-x64.tar.gz >>>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-x64-debuginfo.tar.gz >>>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-arm.tar.gz (armv7, other?) >>>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-arm-debuginfo.tar.gz >>>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-arm64.tar.gz >>>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-arm64-debuginfo.tar.gz >>> [..] >>> >>> In general I'm OK with this, but currently our download page claims the >>> ARM32 and ARM64 build are for Android, and not generically Linux. >>> >>> So, are they actually generically Linux, or specifically for Android? >>> >> You might be correct. >> >> Alex can certainly explain better. > > Specifically for Android. I suppose this to be reflected in the name > cause it's quite possible that we will provide arm64 builds for generic > linux. > What about our android arm for 32 bits? Should we name it arm, arm32, armv7, armv7l, other? Adriano |
|
From: Adriano d. S. F. <adr...@gm...> - 2022-08-25 00:34:40
|
On 24/08/2022 12:04, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: >> >> The Linux builds are not complete builds compared to Windows pdb >> builds (e.g. config files, documentation, security database, etc are >> missing) >> > > Yep, they contain only binaries with debug-info. > Linux "debuginfo" packages contains only the debug symbols. Different than Android "withDebugInfo" packages, that have full package with debug symbols embedded in the executables/libraries. Adriano |
|
From: Adriano d. S. F. <adr...@gm...> - 2022-08-25 00:32:06
|
On 24/08/2022 12:33, Paul Reeves wrote: > On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:04:20 +0200 > Mark Rotteveel <ma...@la...> wrote: > >> On 24-08-2022 15:36, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >>> Mark Rotteveel wrote 24.08.2022 15:32: >>>> If the term is confusing or ambiguous, it already is so in its current >>>> form. >>> >>> Yes, it is. That's why I would suggest to change that. >> >> The Windows pdb packages are complete builds though. So maybe those >> should be "debug", while the Linux builds should be "debug-symbols" or >> something like that. > > The windows pdb packages contain complete builds partly because of the > requirement that anything installable must be uninstallable. Just dropping > a bunch of pdb's into the install dir will soone or later leave a mess > behind it. > > More importantly, it is essential that the symbols exactly match the > binaries, otherwise the debugger will complain and the whole exercise will > be largely useless. Shipping a complete kit guarantees that everything will > match up and can be uninstalled easily. > > But I agree with Dimitry - we should take care to distinguish kits > containing debug symbols from actual 'Debug' builds. > But that leaves a question. Who installs the "debug" binaries? I expect people looking for this is people having a problem and wanting to understand a crash. Then they would need to overwrite their installation or install it in another place. This does not look as a good workflow. It would be easy to drop the debug symbols in their installed location. The install location already has modifiable files that is not uninstalled. If the debug symbols do not matches the executables it probably will not make much harm: - Someone put them there, updated installation and did not updated the debug symbols - Someone did a wrong job - Someone will not have a good experience with the debug - Someone will correct their poor job Adriano |
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From: Dimitry S. <sd...@ib...> - 2022-08-24 17:59:48
|
Alexander Peshkov wrote 24.08.2022 19:06: > On 8/24/22 14:31, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > > Without it services seem to be pretty useless. > > I think this to be suggested in devel and if nobody sees problems - feel > free to add a ticket, I will implement it. Ok. But I don't think that a simple hack returning only thread exit code is a right way to go. > Notice - in status vector it will be a notice that service thread failed > with exit code NNN, original message with a reason for is unknown at the > final point. It is not quite try. In the old dark days when the service thread just run an external utility and mindlessly redirect whole output to the client it was so. But nowadays the thread is doing whole work itself so it can return a proper errors, warnings and verbose messages through isc_svc_query() as soon as they happen. -- WBR, SD. |
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From: Jiří Č. <ji...@ci...> - 2022-08-24 17:58:12
|
>> How crazy idea it would be to have even Linux builds with binaries? >> > > May be I've lost context - but we release linux builds with binaries > since the first days of the project. Sorry. I meant debug(info) builds with binaries. -- Mgr. Jiří Činčura https://www.tabsoverspaces.com/ |
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From: Alex P. <pes...@ma...> - 2022-08-24 17:01:28
|
On 8/24/22 19:33, Jiří Činčura wrote: > How crazy idea it would be to have even Linux builds with binaries? > May be I've lost context - but we release linux builds with binaries since the first days of the project. |
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From: Jiří Č. <ji...@ci...> - 2022-08-24 16:33:17
|
How crazy idea it would be to have even Linux builds with binaries? -- Mgr. Jiří Činčura https://www.tabsoverspaces.com/ |
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From: Paul R. <pr...@ib...> - 2022-08-24 15:34:31
|
On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:04:20 +0200 Mark Rotteveel <ma...@la...> wrote: > On 24-08-2022 15:36, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > > Mark Rotteveel wrote 24.08.2022 15:32: > >> If the term is confusing or ambiguous, it already is so in its current > >> form. > > > > Yes, it is. That's why I would suggest to change that. > > The Windows pdb packages are complete builds though. So maybe those > should be "debug", while the Linux builds should be "debug-symbols" or > something like that. The windows pdb packages contain complete builds partly because of the requirement that anything installable must be uninstallable. Just dropping a bunch of pdb's into the install dir will soone or later leave a mess behind it. More importantly, it is essential that the symbols exactly match the binaries, otherwise the debugger will complain and the whole exercise will be largely useless. Shipping a complete kit guarantees that everything will match up and can be uninstalled easily. But I agree with Dimitry - we should take care to distinguish kits containing debug symbols from actual 'Debug' builds. Paul -- Paul Reeves http://www.ibphoenix.com Supporting users of Firebird |
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From: Dimitry S. <sd...@ib...> - 2022-08-24 15:33:20
|
Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote 24.08.2022 17:00: > Sorry, but they are created by 'cp' command ;) One can run them directly. Wow. That's crazy. -- WBR, SD. |
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From: Mark R. <ma...@la...> - 2022-08-24 15:06:35
|
On 24-08-2022 17:00, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: > On 8/24/22 17:10, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >> Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote 24.08.2022 16:06: >>> Same for linux - not stripped binaries provided. >> >> Nope. Firebird-debuginfo-4.0.2.2816-0.amd64.tar.gz contains only >> extracted debug symbols, not binaries. >> > > Sorry, but they are created by 'cp' command ;) One can run them directly. Nonetheless, those Linux archives are not complete builds. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel |
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From: Alex P. <pes...@ma...> - 2022-08-24 15:04:55
|
On 8/24/22 17:14, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > On 24-08-2022 16:06, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: >> On 8/24/22 17:04, Mark Rotteveel wrote: >>> On 24-08-2022 15:36, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >>>> Mark Rotteveel wrote 24.08.2022 15:32: >>>>> If the term is confusing or ambiguous, it already is so in its >>>>> current form. >>>> >>>> Yes, it is. That's why I would suggest to change that. >>> >>> The Windows pdb packages are complete builds though. >> >> Same for linux - not stripped binaries provided. > > The Linux builds are not complete builds compared to Windows pdb > builds (e.g. config files, documentation, security database, etc are > missing) > Yep, they contain only binaries with debug-info. |
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From: Alex P. <pes...@ma...> - 2022-08-24 15:01:12
|
On 8/24/22 17:10, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote 24.08.2022 16:06: >> Same for linux - not stripped binaries provided. > > Nope. Firebird-debuginfo-4.0.2.2816-0.amd64.tar.gz contains only > extracted debug symbols, not binaries. > Sorry, but they are created by 'cp' command ;) One can run them directly. |
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From: Mark R. <ma...@la...> - 2022-08-24 14:14:59
|
On 24-08-2022 16:06, Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote: > On 8/24/22 17:04, Mark Rotteveel wrote: >> On 24-08-2022 15:36, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >>> Mark Rotteveel wrote 24.08.2022 15:32: >>>> If the term is confusing or ambiguous, it already is so in its >>>> current form. >>> >>> Yes, it is. That's why I would suggest to change that. >> >> The Windows pdb packages are complete builds though. > > Same for linux - not stripped binaries provided. The Linux builds are not complete builds compared to Windows pdb builds (e.g. config files, documentation, security database, etc are missing) Mark -- Mark Rotteveel |
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From: Dimitry S. <sd...@ib...> - 2022-08-24 14:10:31
|
Alex Peshkoff via Firebird-devel wrote 24.08.2022 16:06: > Same for linux - not stripped binaries provided. Nope. Firebird-debuginfo-4.0.2.2816-0.amd64.tar.gz contains only extracted debug symbols, not binaries. -- WBR, SD. |
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From: Alex P. <pes...@ma...> - 2022-08-24 14:06:55
|
On 8/24/22 17:04, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > On 24-08-2022 15:36, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >> Mark Rotteveel wrote 24.08.2022 15:32: >>> If the term is confusing or ambiguous, it already is so in its >>> current form. >> >> Yes, it is. That's why I would suggest to change that. > > The Windows pdb packages are complete builds though. Same for linux - not stripped binaries provided. > So maybe those should be "debug", while the Linux builds should be > "debug-symbols" or something like that. > > Mark |
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From: Mark R. <ma...@la...> - 2022-08-24 14:04:38
|
On 24-08-2022 15:36, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > Mark Rotteveel wrote 24.08.2022 15:32: >> If the term is confusing or ambiguous, it already is so in its current >> form. > > Yes, it is. That's why I would suggest to change that. The Windows pdb packages are complete builds though. So maybe those should be "debug", while the Linux builds should be "debug-symbols" or something like that. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel |
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From: James S. <ji...@ji...> - 2022-08-24 13:46:18
|
Of course there should. The ODS was designed with extensibility in mind, so the initial part of the header page was sacrosanct (i.e. immutable). This was an essential part of the architecture for forward and backward compatibility. The Y-valve, by design, would pass a connection string to all available engines until one was able to open the file and determine from the database header whether it could manage that database. Since the original architecture was robust and there was no rational reason to change it, I have very little doubt that you just open the a database file, read enough of the header page to get the ODS, and proceed from there. On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 12:14 AM Tommi Prami <tom...@su...> wrote: > Hello, > > > > I was thinking that if there is some kind of header (simple enough) in > Firebird Databases and/or backup files, maybe some one could point me into > the right direction. > > I would preferably need (mainly for installer) small tool that would check > the ODS version of the DB before I try to connect into it. And depending on > that, do some preprocessing if needed or make some other choices based upon > that. > > Currently I open the database and detect ODS version that way, but it > makes life bit too complicated. > > > > -Tee- > Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel > -- Jim Starkey |
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From: Dimitry S. <sd...@ib...> - 2022-08-24 13:36:20
|
Mark Rotteveel wrote 24.08.2022 15:32: > If the term is confusing or ambiguous, it already is so in its current form. Yes, it is. That's why I would suggest to change that. -- WBR, SD. |
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From: Mark R. <ma...@la...> - 2022-08-24 13:32:43
|
On 24-08-2022 14:50, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > Dmitry Yemanov wrote 24.08.2022 14:47: >>> I would unify the `pdb`, `debuginfo`, etc. into simple `debug` suffix. >> >> Agreed. > > And better to keep "debuginfo" verb, IMHO to prevent confusion after > expectation to find "a debug build" in "debug" package. What confusion, debuginfo packages are already listed as a "Debug build" on the download page. If the term is confusing or ambiguous, it already is so in its current form. In other words, consolidating it under the term "debug" shouldn't be a problem. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel |
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From: Alex P. <pes...@ma...> - 2022-08-24 13:24:49
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On 8/24/22 15:03, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: > On 24/08/2022 08:59, Mark Rotteveel wrote: >> On 24-08-2022 13:45, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: >>> This is our Firebird 4.0.2 released files: >>> >> [..] >>> It's difficult to understand, they do not mention OS and hardware >>> architectures are inconsistent. >>> >>> I propose this name convention starting with Firebird 5: >> [..] >>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-x64.tar.gz >>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-x64-debuginfo.tar.gz >>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-arm.tar.gz (armv7, other?) >>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-arm-debuginfo.tar.gz >>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-arm64.tar.gz >>> Firebird-5.0.0.2816-0-linux-arm64-debuginfo.tar.gz >> [..] >> >> In general I'm OK with this, but currently our download page claims the >> ARM32 and ARM64 build are for Android, and not generically Linux. >> >> So, are they actually generically Linux, or specifically for Android? >> > You might be correct. > > Alex can certainly explain better. Specifically for Android. I suppose this to be reflected in the name cause it's quite possible that we will provide arm64 builds for generic linux. > I'm also not sure about arm64 vs aarch64 differences. That's "serious" difference - exactly like between amd64, x86_64 and x64 :) |
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From: Dimitry S. <sd...@ib...> - 2022-08-24 12:51:21
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Dmitry Yemanov wrote 24.08.2022 14:47: >> I would unify the `pdb`, `debuginfo`, etc. into simple `debug` suffix. > > Agreed. And better to keep "debuginfo" verb, IMHO to prevent confusion after expectation to find "a debug build" in "debug" package. -- WBR, SD. |
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From: Dmitry Y. <fir...@ya...> - 2022-08-24 12:48:05
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24.08.2022 15:35, Jiří Činčura wrote: > I would unify the `pdb`, `debuginfo`, etc. into simple `debug` suffix. Agreed. Dmitry |