From: Damien Z. <dam...@gm...> - 2011-01-12 11:08:04
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Hi, I have almost got my *working* patch for Digidesign Mbox 2 (usb) duplex mode into ALSA. However, I wish to begin work on getting firewire support for the Digidesign 003 Rack. Having no experience with snooping firewire bus, I did some digging and found the following: I would surely need a firewire card that supports the pcilynx or "nosy" kernel snooping driver, which might be tricky to source one of these cards. Also, I believe i would need one with minimum 2 ports so I can capture traffic on one and mirror the traffic back to the device. Would that be a simple task using "nosy-dump"? I don't have the card yet so I can't do any preliminary testing. If someone with some experience in this could point me in the right direction to get started with this, much appreciated. I read somewhere there is a "Firewire 2 go" card made by NewerTech which is cardbus, would be nice but AFAIK it only has one port. I doubt this is sufficient to snoop it, but if someone knows of a way, it would be good because I would prefer to run a laptop to do the snooping. Regards, Damien |
From: Jonathan W. <jw...@ph...> - 2011-01-13 13:29:13
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Hi Damian [ Combined response to several emails ] > However, I wish to begin work on getting firewire support for the > Digidesign 003 Rack. Sounds like an interesting project. > Having no experience with snooping firewire bus, I did some digging > and found the following: > I would surely need a firewire card that supports the pcilynx or > "nosy" kernel snooping driver, which might be tricky to source one of > these cards. IOI technology make and sell PCI versions of the card. I don't know of any PCIe ones. Yes, you need to use the nosy kernel driver plus the nosy-dump userspace program to do the sniffing. If you have difficulty tracking IOI down drop me an offlist note and I'll dig up the info for you. If you know where to look they're not that hard to find. > Also, I believe i would need one with minimum 2 ports so I can capture > traffic on one and mirror the traffic back to the device. Would that > be a simple task using "nosy-dump"? In most cases you are correct. There are a few situations as Stefan later outlined where this doesn't work, but they are relatively rare amongst audio devices in my experience. > If someone with some experience in this could point me in the right > direction to get started with this, much appreciated. See above. Assuming the conference goes ahead I'll be giving a talk at linux.conf.au 2011 on this very subject. I can let you have the slides from that once they're presented if you like. > I read somewhere there is a "Firewire 2 go" card made by NewerTech > which is cardbus, would be nice but AFAIK it only has one port. It's also not made anymore as far as I know. I also don't know that it was a PCILynx card. But in any case you need two ports on the card for this to work reliably. > Furthermore, an OHCI card can be used to read register contents if at > least the register locations are already known. For some devices this works. Others use registers for different purposes depending on whether they are written to or read from. In this case the register readback approach fails completely. For most audio devices we've looked at thus far the readback idea is fine, but for some (eg: RME) it is not. > > Or perhaps > > Digidesign give you information if you ask them. > > BRUHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA..... Unfortunately, +1. For more info on sniffing you might like to search the list for messages related to the MOTU devices. I've been through the process myself with these interfaces and talked a number of others though it too. For example, look into the 8pre messages in the archive. If you can't track them down drop me a line off-list and I'll dig them out of my archive. Regards jonathan |
From: Adrian K. <ad...@dr...> - 2011-01-13 15:24:13
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On 01/13/11 14:28, Jonathan Woithe wrote: > For more info on sniffing you might like to search the list for messages JFTR, iirc, you can also use tools like BusHound on the windows machine to sniff the data that's passing through the firewire layer. Same should be possible with OSX with the Firewire SDK, given that you have an Apple Developer login (or know such a dev or find the SDK somewhere else) Snooping on the host doesn't require a lynx card, OTOH, at least BusHound isn't that cheap. Just my €0.02 |
From: Stefan R. <st...@s5...> - 2011-01-12 14:47:52
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On Jan 12 Damien Zammit wrote: > I would surely need a firewire card that supports the pcilynx or > "nosy" kernel snooping driver, which might be tricky to source one of > these cards. This is a somewhat drastic measure. Perhaps the control protocol of this device is one that is already more or less known to FFADO. Or perhaps Digidesign give you information if you ask them. And if neither, there are always the alternatives to spend time with improving FFADO for supported hardware ( = devices from cooperative vendors) or do other productive things. :-) (Sure, protocol reverse engineering can be fun too.) > Also, I believe i would need one with minimum 2 ports so I can capture > traffic on one and mirror the traffic back to the device. If you get an S400 capable PCILynx card (not an antique S200 one) and the Digidesign device or the controlling PC is an S400 device too, and as long as there aren't extreme bugs in the device firmware, the bus topology does not matter. For example, Audio_Device <--> Windows_PC <--> Linux_Nosy would let you listen in on everything that goes on between audio device and Windows PC. BTW, if you only need to snoop the audio in/out streams but not the control protocol, then an OHCI-1394 card is sufficient. Furthermore, an OHCI card can be used to read register contents if at least the register locations are already known. (Disclaimer: I don't have own experience in these matters.) -- Stefan Richter -=====-==-== ---= -==-- http://arcgraph.de/sr/ |
From: Jörn N. <net...@st...> - 2011-01-12 23:15:18
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On 01/12/2011 03:47 PM, Stefan Richter wrote: > Or perhaps > Digidesign give you information if you ask them. BRUHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA..... (btw, it's now avid, which makes your suggestion even funnier :) > And if neither, there are always the alternatives to spend time with > improving FFADO for supported hardware ( = devices from cooperative > vendors) or do other productive things. :-) (Sure, protocol reverse > engineering can be fun too.) hear, hear :) that said, damien obviously has a 003, which is a very valid motivation to bite the bullet and try... i wonder if the jack daemon suddenly ceases to work when you plug it in :) (for those who haven't used it on the mac: protools until very recently didn't work with core audio - a marketing decision akin to a word processor not supporting printing...) -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Elektrofachkraft Audio and event engineer - Ambisonic surround recordings http://stackingdwarves.net |
From: Stefan R. <st...@s5...> - 2011-01-28 16:18:16
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On Jan 12 Stefan Richter wrote: > If you get an S400 capable PCILynx card (not an antique S200 one) and the > Digidesign device or the controlling PC is an S400 device too, and as long > as there aren't extreme bugs in the device firmware, the bus topology does > not matter. For example, Audio_Device <--> Windows_PC <--> Linux_Nosy > would let you listen in on everything that goes on between audio device > and Windows PC. PS: As others noted, while any topology /should/ work according to the relevant specifications, the real world == buggy hardware or firmware may let some topologies work better than others. On the other hand, if you get an ancient PCILynx card with S200 phy, then only Audio_Device <--> Linux_Nosy_S200 <--> Windows_PC is going to let you capture traffic with nosy. In case of Audio_Device <--> Windows_PC <--> Linux_Nosy_S200, the former two nodes will happily talk at S400 to each other and nosy, walled up behind the S200 phy, will receive nothing. However, in order for Audio_Device <--> Linux_Nosy_S200 <--> Windows_PC to work, the firmware of the audio device and the Windows driver (or OS X driver...) need to be cleanly written to be able to gracefully downgrade to S200. All bets are off whether that is going to be the case. -- Stefan Richter -=====-==-== ---= ===-- http://arcgraph.de/sr/ |
From: Damien Z. <dam...@gm...> - 2011-01-13 09:14:13
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On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Stefan Richter <st...@s5...> wrote: > On Jan 12 Damien Zammit wrote: >> Also, I believe i would need one with minimum 2 ports so I can capture >> traffic on one and mirror the traffic back to the device. > > If you get an S400 capable PCILynx card (not an antique S200 one) and the > Digidesign device or the controlling PC is an S400 device too, and as long > as there aren't extreme bugs in the device firmware, the bus topology does > not matter. For example, Audio_Device <--> Windows_PC <--> Linux_Nosy > would let you listen in on everything that goes on between audio device > and Windows PC. I see, so I can capture all the data on the bus by being daisy chained to it with linux nosy? I don't actually need to have 2 ports? In that case I might see if I can source an old cardbus card that supports nosy. :) Bring back to life an old laptop as a firewire analyser. This is a bit of a long shot... Has anyone got a newertech cardbus firewire2go card or used one? I sourced one but the owner says it doesn't come with a dongle. Is the dongle necessary for operation? Damien |
From: Euan de K. <eu...@de...> - 2011-01-13 15:17:52
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Hi Damien, I bought a "Solectron 1394 PCILynx PCI 3-port FireWire Card" off ebay, and this works with the nosy driver. Beware of some Solectron boards offered on ebay though as they are not all the PCILynx versions but are listed as being PCILynx. If the picture of the card does not say PCILynx, but rather says OHCI1403 it is probably not a PCILynx based device. Also FYI as of kernel 2.6.36 the Nosy driver is back in the kernel source tree so you can just enable the module and the pcilynx driver and rebuild. For some reason I could not sniff the Isochronous traffic unless the nosy card was in the centre. IE: Windows <---> PCILynx <---> Audio Unit. I know this should not be a requirement and YMMV, but that was my experience. This is also very sensitive to the cables I used and it frequently dropped the link to S200. Good Luck, Euan. On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 20:14 +1100, Damien Zammit wrote: > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Stefan Richter > <st...@s5...> wrote: > > On Jan 12 Damien Zammit wrote: > >> Also, I believe i would need one with minimum 2 ports so I can capture > >> traffic on one and mirror the traffic back to the device. > > > > If you get an S400 capable PCILynx card (not an antique S200 one) and the > > Digidesign device or the controlling PC is an S400 device too, and as long > > as there aren't extreme bugs in the device firmware, the bus topology does > > not matter. For example, Audio_Device <--> Windows_PC <--> Linux_Nosy > > would let you listen in on everything that goes on between audio device > > and Windows PC. > I see, so I can capture all the data on the bus by being daisy chained > to it with linux nosy? I don't actually need to have 2 ports? > > In that case I might see if I can source an old cardbus card that > supports nosy. :) > Bring back to life an old laptop as a firewire analyser. > > This is a bit of a long shot... Has anyone got a newertech cardbus > firewire2go card or used one? I sourced one but the owner says it > doesn't come with a dongle. Is the dongle necessary for operation? > > Damien > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks > Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand > malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you > can protect your company and customers by using code signing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl > _______________________________________________ > FFADO-devel mailing list > FFA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ffado-devel |
From: Stefan R. <st...@s5...> - 2011-01-18 15:16:48
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Damien, I think I saw you asking on IRC about running nosy on PowerBook G3 or PPC iMac. This won't work; these two have an OHCI controller, Apple UniNorth rev 01. As far as I am aware of, PowerMac blue&white is the only Apple device with PCILynx controller. -- Stefan Richter -=====-==-== ---= =--=- http://arcgraph.de/sr/ |
From: Damien Z. <dam...@gm...> - 2011-01-18 23:19:47
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Hi Stefan, Thanks for that info. On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Stefan Richter <st...@s5...> wrote: > Damien, > I think I saw you asking on IRC about running nosy on PowerBook G3 or PPC > iMac. This won't work; these two have an OHCI controller, Apple UniNorth > rev 01. As far as I am aware of, PowerMac blue&white is the only Apple > device with PCILynx controller. > -- > Stefan Richter > -=====-==-== ---= =--=- > http://arcgraph.de/sr/ > |