fetchmail-users

[fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Anne W. <can...@go...>]

I'm now fetching my husband's mail, as well as my own (using fetchmail with 
cron, running as david), but I'm getting:

fetchmail: warning: multidrop for pop3.mailbox.co.uk requires envelope option!
fetchmail: warning: Do not ask for support if all mail goes to postmaster!

This never happens when I collect my mail (fetchmail with cron, running as 
anne).  Googling hasn't come up with anything useful.  What is this about?  
Thanks

Anne

[fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Anne W. <can...@go...>]

Apologies if this is a duplicate, but it's almost 3 hours since I sent it, and 
I haven't seen it yet.

I'm now fetching my husband's mail, as well as my own (using fetchmail with 
cron, running as david), but I'm getting:

fetchmail: warning: multidrop for pop3.mailbox.co.uk requires envelope option!
fetchmail: warning: Do not ask for support if all mail goes to postmaster!

This never happens when I collect my mail (fetchmail with cron, running as 
anne).  Googling hasn't come up with anything useful.  What is this about?  
Thanks

Anne

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Rob M. <rob...@gm...>]

On 8/23/07, Anne Wilson <can...@go...> wrote:
> Apologies if this is a duplicate, but it's almost 3 hours since I sent it, and
> I haven't seen it yet.

It is a duplicate.

> I'm now fetching my husband's mail, as well as my own (using fetchmail with
> cron, running as david), but I'm getting:
>
> fetchmail: warning: multidrop for pop3.mailbox.co.uk requires envelope option!
> fetchmail: warning: Do not ask for support if all mail goes to postmaster!

Did you look at the envelope option in the man page?

> This never happens when I collect my mail (fetchmail with cron, running as
> anne).  Googling hasn't come up with anything useful.  What is this about?
> Thanks

As Matthias said, you may want to read the fine manual, the section on
"Use and Abuse of Multidrop" details what you need to do.

If you're still confused after consulting the documentation, please provide:

1) Your .fetchmailrc
2) The FULL headers of a sample email (mask email addresses or account
names if you want, but leave all the lines in)

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Anne W. <can...@go...>]

On Thursday 23 Aug 2007, Rob MacGregor wrote:
> On 8/23/07, Anne Wilson <can...@go...> wrote:
> > Apologies if this is a duplicate, but it's almost 3 hours since I sent
> > it, and I haven't seen it yet.
>
> It is a duplicate.
>
Sorry - explained elsewhere.

> > I'm now fetching my husband's mail, as well as my own (using fetchmail
> > with cron, running as david), but I'm getting:
> >
> > fetchmail: warning: multidrop for pop3.mailbox.co.uk requires envelope
> > option! fetchmail: warning: Do not ask for support if all mail goes to
> > postmaster!
>
> Did you look at the envelope option in the man page?
>
I've read it, but it didn't seem to apply.  See below.

> > This never happens when I collect my mail (fetchmail with cron, running
> > as anne).  Googling hasn't come up with anything useful.  What is this
> > about? Thanks
>
> As Matthias said, you may want to read the fine manual, the section on
> "Use and Abuse of Multidrop" details what you need to do.
>
<quote>
In singledrop-mode, fetchmail assumes that all messages in the user's account 
are intended for a single recipient.
</quote>

As far as I know, this is what I'm doing.  I run fetchmail as anne, and all 
messages are delivered to me.  On separate cron jobs, fetchmail runs as 
david, and all mail is delivered to him.  Isn't that singledrop-mode?

> If you're still confused after consulting the documentation, please
> provide:
>
> 1) Your .fetchmailrc

For David's mail - mine doesn't bring the problem\;

set logfile = /home/david/fetchmail.log

poll pop3.mailbox.co.uk with proto pop3
	user "xxxxxx.xxxx"
	pass "xxxx"
	is david -a

poll zencphosting09.zen.co.uk with proto pop3
	user "xx...@ly..."
	pass "xxxxx"
	sslfingerprint "01:A0:29:54:2F:03:DB:AE:79:8D:B8:B9:BB:9A:1F:9A"
	is david -a

poll pop3.tiscali.co.uk with proto pop3
	user "xx...@ti..."
	pass "xxxx"
	is david -a

> 2) The FULL headers of a sample email (mask email addresses or account
> names if you want, but leave all the lines in)

Sufficiently obscured for spam, I think:

Return-Path: <con...@e2...>
 X-Original-To: david@localhost
 Delivered-To: da...@lo...main
 Received: from david.my.domain (david.my.domain [127.0.0.1])
        by david.my.domain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E544C9192
        for <david@localhost>; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:30:11 +0100 (BST)
 Envelope-to: dav...@my...main
 Delivery-date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:29:34 +0100
 Received: from zencphosting09.zen.co.uk [82.71.204.15]
        by david.my.domain with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8)
        for <david@localhost> (single-drop); Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:30:11 +0100 
(BST)
 Received: from [212.23.3.230] (port=50776 helo=bastion05.mail.zen.co.uk)
        by zencphosting09.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
        (envelope-from <con...@e2...>)
        id 1INQ3K-0007xe-FN
        for dav...@my...main; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:29:34 +0100
 Received: from mail174.e2ma.net ([66.179.147.174])
        by bastion05.mail.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
        (envelope-from <con...@e2...>)
        id 1INQ3K-0006Cn-2g
        for dav...@my...main; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:29:34 +0000
 To: davidxxxx@myotherdomain
 From: "Armitages Garden Centre" <the...@ar...>
 Subject: Confirming your subscription to the Armitages Garden Centre email 
list
 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:27:45 -0500
 Message-ID: <0ba...@e2...>
 MIME-Version: 1.0
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 X-Zen-Test-Spam-Score: 11
 X-Zen-Test-Spam-Bar: (+)
 X-Originating-Bastion05-IP: [66.179.147.174]
 X-Envelope-From: con...@e2...
 X-Envelope-To: dav...@my...main
 X-Apparently-To: dav...@my...main
 X-Zen-Loop2: 7b9882177c9c8ff4976e7f923821a659
 Status: R
 X-Status: NC
 X-KMail-EncryptionState: 
 X-KMail-SignatureState: 
 X-KMail-MDN-Sent: 
 X-Length: 2615
 X-UID: 1

Anne

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Rob M. <rob...@gm...>]

On 8/27/07, Anne Wilson <can...@go...> wrote:
>
> As far as I know, this is what I'm doing.  I run fetchmail as anne, and all
> messages are delivered to me.  On separate cron jobs, fetchmail runs as
> david, and all mail is delivered to him.  Isn't that singledrop-mode?

It is, though fetchmail doesn't agree with you :)

> For David's mail - mine doesn't bring the problem\;
>
> set logfile = /home/david/fetchmail.log
>
> poll pop3.mailbox.co.uk with proto pop3
>         user "xxxxxx.xxxx"
>         pass "xxxx"
>         is david -a

Ok, what's with the command line argument after "david"?  If you mean
fetchall then you have to use fetchall.  Currently fetchmail is
expecting to deliver to 2 accounts: "david" and "-a".

> Sufficiently obscured for spam, I think:
>
> Return-Path: <con...@e2...>
>  X-Original-To: david@localhost
>  Delivered-To: da...@lo...main

If you were doing multi-drop you'd use the envelope "Delivered-To"

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Anne W. <can...@go...>]

On Monday 27 Aug 2007, Rob MacGregor wrote:
> On 8/27/07, Anne Wilson <can...@go...> wrote:
> > As far as I know, this is what I'm doing.  I run fetchmail as anne, and
> > all messages are delivered to me.  On separate cron jobs, fetchmail runs
> > as david, and all mail is delivered to him.  Isn't that singledrop-mode?
>
> It is, though fetchmail doesn't agree with you :)
>
> > For David's mail - mine doesn't bring the problem\;
> >
> > set logfile = /home/david/fetchmail.log
> >
> > poll pop3.mailbox.co.uk with proto pop3
> >         user "xxxxxx.xxxx"
> >         pass "xxxx"
> >         is david -a
>
> Ok, what's with the command line argument after "david"?  If you mean
> fetchall then you have to use fetchall.  Currently fetchmail is
> expecting to deliver to 2 accounts: "david" and "-a".
>
Now I understand, and also why I don't have the problem on my account.  When I 
set up his I did go back to the man page to refresh my memory.  I 
misunderstood the entry '-a | --all | (since v6.3.3) --fetchall', reading it, 
actually in reverse.  Instead of --fetchall, as in my accounts, I used what I 
thought I had seen to be the preferred '-a'.  Duh!

> > Sufficiently obscured for spam, I think:
> >
> > Return-Path: <con...@e2...>
> >  X-Original-To: david@localhost
> >  Delivered-To: da...@lo...main
>
> If you were doing multi-drop you'd use the envelope "Delivered-To"

Hopefully, having altered fetchmailrc, I shouldn't be seeing the problem 
again, but I'll mark this message up for reference, in case I need it later.

Thanks for help and patience.

Anne

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Rob M. <rob...@gm...>]

On 8/27/07, Anne Wilson <can...@go...> wrote:
<---SNIP--->
> Now I understand, and also why I don't have the problem on my account.  When I
> set up his I did go back to the man page to refresh my memory.  I
> misunderstood the entry '-a | --all | (since v6.3.3) --fetchall', reading it,
> actually in reverse.  Instead of --fetchall, as in my accounts, I used what I
> thought I had seen to be the preferred '-a'.  Duh!

Actually, it's worse than that (but you're helping show we need a
re-write of the manual).  The entries that begin with a hyphen (-a,
--all, --fetchall) are all command line options.  The only one valid
in the .fetchmailrc is the keyword (fetchall).  The manual doesn't
make the distinction terribly clear (it's mentioned only in passing).

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Anne W. <can...@go...>]

On Monday 27 Aug 2007, Rob MacGregor wrote:
> On 8/27/07, Anne Wilson <can...@go...> wrote:
> <---SNIP--->
>
> > Now I understand, and also why I don't have the problem on my account. 
> > When I set up his I did go back to the man page to refresh my memory.  I
> > misunderstood the entry '-a | --all | (since v6.3.3) --fetchall', reading
> > it, actually in reverse.  Instead of --fetchall, as in my accounts, I
> > used what I thought I had seen to be the preferred '-a'.  Duh!
>
> Actually, it's worse than that (but you're helping show we need a
> re-write of the manual).  The entries that begin with a hyphen (-a,
> --all, --fetchall) are all command line options.  The only one valid
> in the .fetchmailrc is the keyword (fetchall).  The manual doesn't
> make the distinction terribly clear (it's mentioned only in passing).

Well, I do have my uses :-)  Glad you got something useful out of it.

Anne

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Matthias A. <mat...@gm...>]

Rob MacGregor schrieb:
> On 8/27/07, Anne Wilson <can...@go...> wrote:
> <---SNIP--->
>> Now I understand, and also why I don't have the problem on my account.  When I
>> set up his I did go back to the man page to refresh my memory.  I
>> misunderstood the entry '-a | --all | (since v6.3.3) --fetchall', reading it,
>> actually in reverse.  Instead of --fetchall, as in my accounts, I used what I
>> thought I had seen to be the preferred '-a'.  Duh!
> 
> Actually, it's worse than that (but you're helping show we need a
> re-write of the manual).  The entries that begin with a hyphen (-a,
> --all, --fetchall) are all command line options.  The only one valid
> in the .fetchmailrc is the keyword (fetchall).  The manual doesn't
> make the distinction terribly clear (it's mentioned only in passing).
> 

I've long since pondered requiring an explicit multidrop keyword in the
next major fetchmail version, and complaining about multiple destination
addresses without that magic "multidrop" keyword.

While fetchmail's implicit "understanding" of the verbose rcfiles may be
useful, I more often than not think that fetchmail does far too many things
automatically under the hood -- and personally I detest such kind of
surprise...

Best
Matthias

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Rob M. <rob...@gm...>]

On 8/28/07, Matthias Andree <mat...@gm...> wrote:
>
> I've long since pondered requiring an explicit multidrop keyword in the
> next major fetchmail version, and complaining about multiple destination
> addresses without that magic "multidrop" keyword.
>
> While fetchmail's implicit "understanding" of the verbose rcfiles may be
> useful, I more often than not think that fetchmail does far too many things
> automatically under the hood -- and personally I detest such kind of
> surprise...

That's not a bad idea, presumably in the user section, maybe
"multidrop user" vs "user" (or explicitly "singledrop user")?  Of
course, you could (ab)use the Envelope option that way - without it
the mailbox is singledrop and multiple recipients generates an error.

Mind you if you're going down the route of re-working the parsing
logic how about moving the SSL options from the user section to the
server section, which IMO makes far more sense (after all, the
fingerprint is per-server).  Of course, there may be some value in
moving to a new format (and providing a tool to migrate) to enforce a
more logical configuration format.

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Rob F. <rf...@fu...>]

[catching up on email from my vacation...]

Rob MacGregor wrote on Aug 28, 2007:
>   Of course, there may be some value in
> moving to a new format (and providing a tool to migrate) to enforce a
> more logical configuration format.

Heh, I've long disliked the config file format and its implicit structure, 
and long long ago I suggested to ESR that it be changed.  His response 
then was that it was already too established to change and he didn't want 
to have two parsers (for backward compatibility).  Of course he also 
thought his optional English "noise words" thing was a feature rather 
than a bug of the format.

I still think it would be nice to revamp it into some more logical and 
explicitly-structured format in some future major version, but I 
obviously don't have time to work on it.

-- 
==============================|   "A microscope locked in on one point
 Rob Funk <rf...@fu...> |Never sees what kind of room that it's in"
 http://www.funknet.net/rfunk |    -- Chris Mars, "Stuck in Rewind"

Re: [fetchmail-users] "requires envelope option!"

[Matthias A. <mat...@gm...>]

Anne Wilson schrieb:
> I'm now fetching my husband's mail, as well as my own (using fetchmail with 
> cron, running as david), but I'm getting:
> 
> fetchmail: warning: multidrop for pop3.mailbox.co.uk requires envelope option!
> fetchmail: warning: Do not ask for support if all mail goes to postmaster!

As it says, you configured multidrop fetching without also configuring the
envelope option, and that's usually the source of "undelivered" messages.

Details on multidrop are in the manual page, if some part of the multidrop
documentation is unclear, let me know which one so I can improve it.
Relevant sections:

Singledrop vs. Multidrop options
THE USE AND ABUSE OF MULTIDROP MAILBOXES
Good Ways To Use Multidrop Mailboxes
Bad Ways To Abuse Multidrop Mailboxes
Speeding Up Multidrop Checking

HTH
Matthias.