Player Sub Customization
FATHOM is a multiplayer Action-RTS combat game set in the deep ocean.
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So I've been trying to decide how to layout the game's Sub customization during game play. The Module system was an attempt to give some abilities that maybe 'specialize' the player's Sub, but the subject I'm debating is making the basic attributes of the Sub upgradeable, in a linear fashion as the game round progresses. I have a bunch of other upgrade questions regarding weapons, and deployables as well, but I will break them into separate discussions. Little more bite size this way. Anyway, below is a list of the basic player sub attributes that can be modified.
Player Sub Attributes:
So to start, here's some courses of action I've come up with so far for customization options:
1. Multiple Sub Types
With this option, players can select from a set of premade Sub types (think sub classes), where each type has a static set of basic attributes, that cannot be changed. You can of course augment them with the modules, but essentially, you'd be using a particular Sub to fulfill some role in the field, ie. Sniper, Damage Sponge, Deployer, Sapper, etc. Optionally, we could have some sort of unlocking mechanism, for example it might take a certain amount of metal to unlock the Heavy Assault Sub. So you can create a 'garage' of subs to choose from. This method gives us a little more control over balance, and could add some nice variance to the visuals, particularly if we have different models for each sub type.
Follow up question(s):
* Should each sub type have a static weapons set of equipped weapons? Or should it just have slots that can be filled with any weapon by the player?
2. One Sub Type, Full Attribute Customization
With this option, everyone starts with the same basic Sub, and everything is customizable. So over the course of the game you can upgrade one or many of the attributes with metal, that is, add weapon slots, increase max speed, etc. While this option obviously offers the most flexibility. One thing though to consider though is typically these things eventually devolved 'cookie cutter' specs, where there's basically a 'right' or optimal way to select upgrades. It also may be difficult to balance, as there are a lot of variables in this case. It will certainly take some thought on how if/where to put attribute caps. Or with tweaking costs, perhaps prices can raising exponentially as attributes are increased.
Please discuss...
Last edit: daggada 2013-10-29
I like the idea of having a 'garage' of subs to choose from. A lot of my thinking comes from the visual also: a fast sub would obviously look sleeker and streamlined, whereas a big tank wouldn't be, as well as having additional hard points.
Regarding the weapons: I would expect a fast sub to have only a couple wep slots, and a tank to have lots. Allow for slots to be filled as desired, and you might have the 'cookie cutter' specs again - if they are fixed (2 machine guns on fast, 4 on tank, etc.) then maybe balancing is easier? Other things would be factors like the tank not turning as fast, though if you're caught in the crosshairs of the tank, all hell will be raining down...
-Talon
p.s. I don't see a way to add a profile/username here?
Yeah, like Joe mentioned, you want to create a Sourceforge account. You can do so by clicking the top right, in that gray bar area, where it says "Login or Join".
Its Tyler B: I think you're heading in a great direction. It has great potential. My opinion is (1) Control's are a tad weird and took some getting used to, which isn't such a bad thing, it'll require people to actually put in effort to move around. (2) I didn't see much use in the Alt Fire, it didn't do anything that I noticed, and maybe it's because you didn't script anything for it yet. (3) The difficulty caught me off guard (maybe you're wanting it to be difficult) for a first time player since the enemies were really accurate. Later on maybe have a difficulty setting? (4) Maybe have ammo dumps, or drop's from killing enemies. (5) Have a weapon range limit (ranges vary from different weapons of course) so people can't shoot enemies from across the map.
As for the stuff above, (1) I like the idea having pre-made classes, so people can get used to the game, like Call of Duty for example, with pre-made classes. Then once you get used to it, you unlock class customization. (2) Have a restriction on certain weapons you can have equipped, for example, two high powered weapons can't be taken into battle. (3) I can give more helpful information on Upgrades if you would like to send me a rough draft of a list of upgrades to choose from, also an RPG aspect with Upgrades would work out. You get 1 Point to spend on upgrades each time you Level Up or Rank up.(4) A color customization for you're "Drone" or "Model" gives players a connection too their "Drone".
Hope this help's
Tyler B
Hey Tyler, thanks again for the input. Here's some feedback:
Absolutely, I'd love to hear how you think upgrades should work. I think I'm going to put something like that together soon as well. I just wanted to get a feel for what people sort of expect in a game like this, when it comes to upgrades. Seems like a lot of people like the prefabbed sub classes so far.
Last edit: daggada 2013-10-30
Still skimming these, but good stuff keep it coming....
Tyler look at the wiki for the how to play instructions. The ALT fire stuff is half of the game.
I think you guys just need to sign up for a sourceforge account for your username to appear.
Excellent feedback so far guys, thank you! Exactly what the type of stuff I'm looking for. I'll think on this some more and hit yas back. Again, really appreciate it, keep it coming!
And sorry about the 'pending moderation' filter thing earlier, I'm still figuring out how to use this forum. Think I disabled that now... I think. EDIT: Nope, evidently its something that automatically happens when posts are made anonymously. So I'll try to keep on top of that.
Last edit: daggada 2013-10-30
The controls do take some getting used to but once you do it is very fluid I wouldn't change a thing in that regard. I like the preset class idea but maybe once you reach a certain level the sky's the limit on how you can customize the classes... Some like cookie cutter & some will play the thing for days upon days to be able to dominate by customizing the subs how they want. I couldn't figure out how to make the turrets work, I'm sure it's something simple that I just didn't try.
Joey Y.
Yeah, we were going for a little learning curve to the controls, so that's good to hear. Just for giggles, I've added an option where you can toggle the control scheme with the Page Up key. Try using the Standard Controls, which are essentially a standard FPS WSAD scheme, with E and C strafing up and down. Let me know what you think of that in comparison.
I agree on the multi sub types, with set attributes that modules can tweak. I would prefer to be able to upgrade the weapons, allowing it to output more damage as the round progresses.
It's been a while since I tested the game, so I will need to d/l and retest before adding more to the discussion.
Gimpy here..
only had a chance to check it out for a few min here and there, but reading the discussion, I'm liking the idea of the sub classes.
While reading about it, I was tempted to think OLD tribes / tribes 2, with the idea of the Heavy / Medium / Light. changes in armor, movement speed, size / ammount / type of weapons able to be carried, larger or smaller targeting models.
maybe add a class that is faster and more effective with the beacons but weaker in the weapon department.
As far as the static weapon for each class.. depends on HOW you manage the classes. if its a size ratio, then it would be nice to see a weapon based on each size / class.
I was never a fan of some tiny avatar whipping out a HUGE weapon, unless you venture into cartoon gaming and even then it can be ridiculous.
but if its just a classification name change of the same sub type then i dont think the need for static weapon is very critical as each class should have customizations of some sort to make up for uniqueness.
adding subclasses can really allow for more people / play styles to find there niche, and be comfortable, rather than a lot of FPS games today where the builds are pretty much even (save a few tweaks here and there) and its the fastest twitcher to win.
from what ive seen of it, its looking good so far.
had some issues with some video tearing and stutter in movement, delete and re download took care of it.. not sure what that would of been an issue there, im sure its nothing game side.. probably just an Aussie computer thing.. or a internet burp during my 17mb DL.
keep up the good work.
Thanks Gimpy!
I was actually taking a lot of pages out of Tribes, and I was considering even borrowing Tribes:Ascend's F2P monetization for a little while (though I don't think we'll actually go that route.)
But yeah, this is sort of a philosophical question. Tweakers like a lot of options, and like the flexibility, but that can take away from the people that want to just jump in and play. Classes are nice for that, where it's pretty much immediately obvious what a Heavy does in Tribes, at least, as opposed to a Light. I was sort of leaning towards that concept myself.
In the end, I think this game will likely evolve into a team-play based matchup, so I do kinda see roles organically emerging. Roles are sort based on necessity though, so I'd like to get some folks playing together, and see what they try to actually accomplish during the game, play-style-wise, and design classes around that. For example, a play-style may involve using a lot of deployables, and playing the 'taxi-cab' game to form, and push fronts. A faster sub might be appropriate there. Another might be for straight up, destruction, in which case a heavy might make sense.
The goal of the game right now is to blow up NPCs, and get your collectors to bring the stuff they drop back to your base. So in a way, there's a lot of escorting, so I may need to add some value to player versus player combat. Like maybe awarding metal for killing an enemy, stuff like that...
These are things I want to see come out of play testing, see where the holes in the mechanics are...