[exprla-devel] RE: [XPL] Re: Goals (was RE: a domain name for XPL)
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[exprla-devel] RE: [XPL] Re: Goals (was RE: a domain name for XPL)
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From: reid_spencer <ras...@re...> - 2002-01-31 09:39:35
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--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote: Sheesh, no wonder I have carpal tunnel syndrome ... all I intended to write was, "oh, it's ME!", "I agree Mark", and "That's what that POLL link is for!" But look what happened .... -----Original Message----- From: Mark Wilson [mailto:mark_tracey@y...] Sent: July 5, 2000 12:50 AM To: xpl@e... Subject: [XPL] Re: Goals (was RE: a domain name for XPL) oops, I meant Richard Anthony (you) and I was referring to the tome you wrote which eloquently stated amongst other things... [Richard Anthony Hein] Hehe, jokes on us both! I spent a good 45 minutes searching through past emails, and on the egroups web pages (thinking somehow I deleted that one message I wrote to "Anthony"), and scratching my head in wonder! LOL!! What is XPL supposed to accomplish? http://www.egroups.com/message/xpl/241?&start=215 At this point some more of the 89 members of this group should speak up about what they want to see happening. If no one does, that should then be taken as silent consent and we should move on. [Richard Anthony Hein] I guess there is a time for everything. I hate to think that people far more experienced and knowledgeable than I are just sitting and watching while I make an idiot of myself trying to help develop. Sometimes I feel like I have been trying to touch the bottom of the deep end of the pool for the first time, all the while in the back of my mind thinking I may have enough air in me to get to the bottom, but totally worried I won't be able to make it back up! Maybe other people feel the same kind of way about it. If that doesn't make some people who have been holding back comfortable enough to speak up and risk making mistakes in an open forum, I don't know what else to say. If you (the people who lurk in the darkness) don't think the group has the depth to accomplish things, you're plain wrong. I am not tooting my horn here - I just took off my water wings, ok - I am talking about web designers, programmers, compiler expert, technical writers, presenters, web administrator (is that your title Mark?), consultant, database developer (who needs to work with more powerful database systems, to really be considered an expert, for a few more years), protocol developer (is there an appropriate title for this??), and a lot more. And we all really, really like XML and it's promise. I suck compared to these other people, but hey, I am here trying my butt off to be useful, because I want to be part of this. I hope others will do the same. Unless momentum, roles and a clear vision and delivery schedule is set up, I doubt we will deliver anything. Now is the time for the 89 people to stand up and say "hell-no, we won't go" (or something like that) and share ownership of some aspect of this group. [Richard Anthony Hein] I agree 100% on this issue. I understand now why the Apache XML project has a system of roles based on contribution. Useless contribution has to be filtered sometimes (a lot of it mine), but for the most part, it's a good idea. Richard, you can create polls in eGroups... have you considered setting up a poll on potential visions? Then we can vote for our choice? [Richard Anthony Hein] D'oh!! That's what that "POLL" link is for! Sheesh. I guess I should get more familiar with egroups' web site eh? Cheers, Mark. [Richard Anthony Hein] I'll drink to that! Richard Anthony Hein (as if you didn't know that by now ;-) --- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote: > Great Mark, I am glad to read all this. A couple of things - I don't think > that we have established a clear goal yet; please tell me what you see that > has been established. Maybe I am the only one confused about our goal for > XPL. I have ideas, but they are not the same as other people's ideas here, > and I don't think there is a firm statement of purpose. > > If you mean the concept of XPL-Fog, I am not sure if that has been accepted > (personally, I like that one line vision you stated). I looked at the > messages relating to it, and saw Jonathan and Kurt in particular making some > very interesting comments, and what not, and then it dropped, seemingly > because it's out of scope, or maybe more to do with the idea of building a > evolving 'net and the implications of that. That's pretty far into the > future (the evolving 'net), but I ask again, isn't that what the .NET > concept and J2EE (don't know enough about Oracle's me-too tech. .NOW) will > eventually lead to? Anyhow .... > > We need to clear this up. That's what the requirements thing (what is XPL > required to accomplish) is supposed to clarify. We haven't had nearly > enough discussion about the requirements Jonathan put up, so I am not ready > to say that these are established yet. However, after we get the web site > up, then it should be easier to review that which has been pretty much > agreed upon. We'll get there. > > Everything else you mentioned, I am happy to hear, and certainly believe you > would be excellent in the role of community awareness/management. I have no > problems with that. There has to be some organization. However, I don't > speak for the group. This is exactly the type of thing that we need to > seriously work out. There has got to be a forum to collaborate, and even > vote on issues (such as roles), and share code, check them in, etc.... Is > there an opensource app. available out there that anyone can suggest for > such a thing? I don't think we will get very far without some instant > messaging and what not to collaborate, brainstorm, etc... with. I would say > NetMeeting, but I highly doubt that everyone will be using Windows. > > One last question; kind of embarrassing: Who is Anthony, and what document > are you referring to? > > Sincerely, > > Richard A. Hein > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Wilson [mailto:mark_tracey@y...] > Sent: July 4, 2000 7:18 PM > To: xpl@e... > Subject: [XPL] Re: a domain name for XPL > > > > Richard, that is no problem. I am all for supporting XPL (and XPipes > and WorldOS and Metaset). These are organic by-the-people and for- > the-people project. > > Besides, I like hangin around smart people... makes me feel good. > > OK, so when you edit your page and make it a home, I will promote the > hell out of it. > > My only suggestion is to SET EXPECTATIONS. What this means is that > first impressions count. People will want to see documents like you > provided Anthony. They will want to know what he goal is (you have > all estalished that quite well) and by comparing the MS, Oracle and > Sun goals with your own will be VERY enticing. > > Have a clearly defined 1 line vision is important. "To build a data > cloud everyone can use" could be one. Whatever. > > But, yes, when you have your sub-web up, I will promote it for you. > > In the longer run, with so many exciting projects floating around > the .NET (aaargh, I couldn't resist it!) I would like to centralise > them in a place where they can feed off each other. I am good at > this kind of stuff. > > (I am currently very into organic designs and natural systems, whee > people with different needs cooperate to form a better whole, like > VBXML does). > > WARNING: I have seen many of these types of projects burn out in a > twinkling of an eye. They exist, they burn brightly, then they die. > To avoid this, they sell out or get sponsors (WROX?) etc... Let's not > do this. All it takes is a clear vision, *community > awareness/management* and constant momentum. > > If you guys ever assign roles to yourselves, I would like to take the > role of community awareness/management - and the first thing I would > do is have you move into the VBXML website and get more concrete > about your steps going forward. > > Last comment. I don't pretend to be an XSL guru. I don't pretend to > understand how you will build what you want to build. But I really > am keen to help you survive the first few years as a community - the > aspect which technical groups usually lose focus on. > > Thoughts? > > Cheers, > Mark. > > > --- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote: > > Mark, > > I know we don't have much to link to, but can you put up something > on > > VBXML's main page to link to XPL's page? Nobody knows we are > there. We > > need more people to work on this. Maybe wait a few days until I > have my > > compilation done, and people here now, especially our writers > (Kurt :-) > > reviews it and adds his comments and changes to it (ie. chops it > up ;-)? > > > > Richard A. Hein > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Wilson [mailto:mark_tracey@y...] > > Sent: July 4, 2000 8:17 AM > > To: xpl@e... > > Subject: [XPL] Re: a domain name for XPL > > > > > > > > OR! > > > > you guys could simply move into the > > http://www.vbxml.com/xpl > > location I set up for you some time back. > > > > That would bring 40 000 visitors each month into > > contact with this project - quite a boost! Then when > > you have a URL, then move in there (if you still think > > you would be better off). > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Cheers, > > Mark. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. > > http://invites.yahoo.com/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---- > -------- > > -- > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---- > -------- > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > xpl-unsubscribe@o... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -------- > -- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -------- > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > xpl-unsubscribe@o... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ -- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: xpl-unsubscribe@o... --- End forwarded message --- |
