[exprla-devel] Re: Goals (was RE: a domain name for XPL)

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Mark Wilson" <mark_tracey@y...> wrote:

oops, I meant Richard Anthony (you) and I was referring to the tome 
you wrote which eloquently stated amongst other things...

What is XPL supposed to accomplish?
http://www.egroups.com/message/xpl/241?&start=215

At this point some more of the 89 members of this group should speak 
up about what they want to see happening.  If no one does, that 
should then be taken as silent consent and we should move on.

Unless momentum, roles and a clear vision and delivery schedule is 
set up, I doubt we will deliver anything.  Now is the time for the 89 
people to stand up and say "hell-no, we won't go" (or something like 
that) and share ownership of some aspect of this group.

Richard, you can create polls in eGroups... have you considered 
setting up a poll on potential visions?  Then we can vote for our 
choice?

Cheers,
Mark.



--- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
> Great Mark, I am glad to read all this.  A couple of things  - I 
don't think
> that we have established a clear goal yet; please tell me what you 
see that
> has been established.  Maybe I am the only one confused about our 
goal for
> XPL.  I have ideas, but they are not the same as other people's 
ideas here,
> and I don't think there is a firm statement of purpose.
> 
> If you mean the concept of XPL-Fog, I am not sure if that has been 
accepted
> (personally, I like that one line vision you stated).  I looked at 
the
> messages relating to it, and saw Jonathan and Kurt in particular 
making some
> very interesting comments, and what not, and then it dropped, 
seemingly
> because it's out of scope, or maybe more to do with the idea of 
building a
> evolving 'net and the implications of that.  That's pretty far into 
the
> future (the evolving 'net), but I ask again, isn't that what 
the .NET
> concept and J2EE (don't know enough about Oracle's me-too 
tech. .NOW) will
> eventually lead to?  Anyhow ....
> 
> We need to clear this up.  That's what the requirements thing (what 
is XPL
> required to accomplish) is supposed to clarify.  We haven't had 
nearly
> enough discussion about the requirements Jonathan put up, so I am 
not ready
> to say that these are established yet.  However, after we get the 
web site
> up, then it should be easier to review that which has been pretty 
much
> agreed upon.  We'll get there.
> 
> Everything else you mentioned, I am happy to hear, and certainly 
believe you
> would be excellent in the role of community awareness/management.  
I have no
> problems with that.  There has to be some organization.  However, I 
don't
> speak for the group.  This is exactly the type of thing that we 
need to
> seriously work out.  There has got to be a forum to collaborate, 
and even
> vote on issues (such as roles), and share code, check them in, 
etc....  Is
> there an opensource app. available out there that anyone can 
suggest for
> such a thing?  I don't think we will get very far without some 
instant
> messaging and what not to collaborate, brainstorm, etc... with.  I 
would say
> NetMeeting, but I highly doubt that everyone will be using Windows.
> 
> One last question; kind of embarrassing:  Who is Anthony, and what 
document
> are you referring to?
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Richard A. Hein
> 
> 
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Wilson [mailto:mark_tracey@y...]
> Sent: July 4, 2000 7:18 PM
> To: xpl@e...
> Subject: [XPL] Re: a domain name for XPL
> 
> 
> 
>   Richard, that is no problem.  I am all for supporting XPL (and 
XPipes
>   and WorldOS and Metaset).  These are organic by-the-people and 
for-
>   the-people project.
> 
>   Besides, I like hangin around smart people... makes me feel good.
> 
>   OK, so when you edit your page and make it a home, I will promote 
the
>   hell out of it.
> 
>   My only suggestion is to SET EXPECTATIONS.  What this means is 
that
>   first impressions count.  People will want to see documents like 
you
>   provided Anthony.  They will want to know what he goal is (you 
have
>   all estalished that quite well) and by comparing the MS, Oracle 
and
>   Sun goals with your own will be VERY enticing.
> 
>   Have a clearly defined 1 line vision is important.  "To build a 
data
>   cloud everyone can use" could be one.  Whatever.
> 
>   But, yes, when you have your sub-web up, I will promote it for 
you.
> 
>   In the longer run, with so many exciting projects floating around
>   the .NET (aaargh, I couldn't resist it!) I would like to 
centralise
>   them in a place where they can feed off each other.  I am good at
>   this kind of stuff.
> 
>   (I am currently very into organic designs and natural systems, 
whee
>   people with different needs cooperate to form a better whole, like
>   VBXML does).
> 
>   WARNING:  I have seen many of these types of projects burn out in 
a
>   twinkling of an eye.  They exist, they burn brightly, then they 
die.
>   To avoid this, they sell out or get sponsors (WROX?) etc... Let's 
not
>   do this.  All it takes is a clear vision, *community
>   awareness/management* and constant momentum.
> 
>   If you guys ever assign roles to yourselves, I would like to take 
the
>   role of community awareness/management - and the first thing I 
would
>   do is have you move into the VBXML website and get more concrete
>   about your steps going forward.
> 
>   Last comment.  I don't pretend to be an XSL guru.  I don't 
pretend to
>   understand how you will build what you want to build.  But I 
really
>   am keen to help you survive the first few years as a community - 
the
>   aspect which technical groups usually lose focus on.
> 
>   Thoughts?
> 
>   Cheers,
>   Mark.
> 
> 
>   --- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> 
wrote:
>   > Mark,
>   > I know we don't have much to link to, but can you put up 
something
>   on
>   > VBXML's main page to link to XPL's page?  Nobody knows we are
>   there.  We
>   > need more people to work on this.  Maybe wait a few days until I
>   have my
>   > compilation done, and people here now, especially our writers
>   (Kurt :-)
>   > reviews it and adds his comments and changes to it (ie. chops it
>   up ;-)?
>   >
>   > Richard A. Hein
>   >   -----Original Message-----
>   >   From: Mark Wilson [mailto:mark_tracey@y...]
>   >   Sent: July 4, 2000 8:17 AM
>   >   To: xpl@e...
>   >   Subject: [XPL] Re: a domain name for XPL
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >   OR!
>   >
>   >   you guys could simply move into the
>   >   http://www.vbxml.com/xpl
>   >   location I set up for you some time back.
>   >
>   >   That would bring 40 000 visitors each month into
>   >   contact with this project - quite a boost!  Then when
>   >   you have a URL, then move in there (if you still think
>   >   you would be better off).
>   >
>   >   Thoughts?
>   >
>   >   Cheers,
>   >   Mark.
>   >
>   >   __________________________________________________
>   >   Do You Yahoo!?
>   >   Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
>   >   http://invites.yahoo.com/
>   >
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