[exprla-devel] RE: [XPL] Re: a domain name for XPL

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--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
Kurt,
One of the names I sent you might be good for your XPipes project; if 
you
like it, go ahead and take it - not like I could stop you, but you 
have my
blessing in any case.

Michael is talking about http://www.vbxml.com/xpl  There hasn't been
anything posted there since the beginning though.

I am worried about the health of XPL now; we haven't been getting the
requirements or anything done.

I have been working on compiling up the stuff we've discussed to put 
it in a
format that's easier for new people to get a grip on the things we've 
been
talking about, and for people who have been following the 
conversations to
review and comment on past discussions that have never been resolved.

Unfortunately, I have just gotten carpal tunnel syndrome, and my 
right wrist
is killing me.  So it's going to take a while before I get it done.  
Maybe a
week.  At that time, hopefully we will have a web site layout and can 
post
some articles on XPL's status, including "The State of XPL", as I am 
calling
my compilation and review article.

Kurt, I remember going over an article on vbxml about making an 
XML/XSL
content management document, allowing examples and articles to be 
easily
updated with new code samples and tutorial articles.  I think this 
would be
a good layout for my document, especially if people can annotate in 
the
article and code sections.  The straight article is simple enough.  
Any ides
about how to expand the concept to make it annotatable?  Or does 
anyone have
any better ideas on some decent ways to collaborate on documents at 
the
site?  Software suggestions, high-level concepts and raw code are all
requested on this issue.

We also need a way to accept registration for the XPL site.  In 
addition,
someone with knowledge about licensing will have to find out what the 
legal
issues are, if we post information about XPL.  I am not sure, but I 
think if
we just give away information without copyrighting it in some fashion,
people can just steal it and use it on their own proprietary 
projects.  Then
in the future, XPL could be harmed if that person/company tries to 
sue us
for using "their" code.  Any thoughts?

I think there are so many issues that touch on XPL right now that are 
not
being discussed.  The new language C# that Microsoft is developing 
might not
be the same syntactically to XPL's ideas, but it is built on the 
concept of
XML "data clouds" (that's MS's term for XML-fog), and web services.  
This is
a direct competitor to XPL.  I was reviewing the W3C's information on 
how to
start an activity group, what documentation is needed, and what 
should be in
that documentation (a "Note"), and one of the issues is what 
competition is
out there.  There are other issues that demand attention, and so I 
have been
trying to expose people to those questions.  How does XPL compare to 
other
technologies, is one of them.  What effect will XPL have on other
technologies (specifically W3C's, but also others), what dependencies 
exist,
and so forth.  These all MUST be discussed and put into the Note, for 
it to
even be considered.  Of course there isn't much point in trying to 
discuss
this, if we haven't even answered the question:

What is XPL supposed to accomplish?

When I asked for requirements, that's what I meant.  I still think 
other
general requirements are good to have right now, but the most vital 
are
concerning what XPL is supposed to DO.  Is it a full-out language?  A
meta-language?  An engine to stream and coordinate other XML 
technologies?
Does it work with the "fog", as a "fog"?  Etc ....

Remember when I wrote, "don't put the genie back into the bottle", 
Jonathan
et al?  Take a look at what Microsoft's .NET concept is dedicated to
accomplishing, and tell me - isn't that the genie?  MS is already 
working
big time on "data clouds" of XML and web services that use them.  
Oracle
thinks they already have it with .NOW (rediculous), and Sun claims it 
will
be done with Java using J2EE.

There is no opensource equivalent to compete against these 
corporations
right now, that I can see.  Plus, they are all trying to do it with
technology that was never meant to pull off this feat.  It's really 
just a
great big HACK.  So, if we start with a blank state, based on TOTALLY
standard implementation across the board, I think it won't 
take "many, many
years" to pull off the way MS says it will, as they try to figure out 
hacks
to everything.  But it will still take "many years" to pull off, and 
a LOT
of people.  The Apache group, Mozilla, etc, are all sources from 
which to
draw strength.  So let's build up the vision of what XPL will BE, and
recruit people to help make it happen.
Here's a format:
  1.. XPL will stream XML data, in an asynchronous and/or synchronous
format, and support multiple streams of heterogeneous data, including
non-XML media types.
  2.. XPL will format output using XSL.
  3.. XPL will transform XML data using XSLT.
  4.. XPL will be optimized to operate on a peer-to-peer network, 
however
client-server models and offline computing will also be supported 
fully.
  5.. XPL will use agents, among other methods to operate on XML.
  6.. XPL will use RDF to locate resources.
  7.. XPL will use XLink to create, follow, and generate links between
resources.
  8.. XPL will use XPath as the language to describe resource 
locations.
  9.. XPL will be an interface-based object-oriented language, and the
interfaces will be exposed as XML 1.0 compliant XML (although the 
programs
themselves may or may not be).
  10.. XPL will NEVER support APIs that are not FULLY opensource and 
public
domain, as closed source APIs may fork XPL.  Anyone MAY create 
private APIs,
however, they MAY NOT publish or redistribute said APIs outside of 
private
or corporate usage, unless first reviewed, accepted, integrated (into 
the
XPL API library) and simultaneously published by the XPL working 
group.
Upon such an event, the API also becomes opensource and public domain 
under
the license terms which XPL operates under (yet to be decided).
There's ten.  They are simple, and say at least a few things that XPL 
will
do.  Comments?  Number 10 is a tricky one.

Richard A. Hein
  -----Original Message-----
  From: cagle@o... [mailto:cagle@o...]
  Sent: July 4, 2000 11:24 AM
  To: xpl@e...
  Subject: Re: [XPL] Re: a domain name for XPL

  Oh, I missed that one. When did you set it up?

  -- Kurt
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Mark Wilson" <mark_tracey@y...>
  To: <xpl@e...>
  Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 5:17 AM
  Subject: [XPL] Re: a domain name for XPL

  >
  > OR!
  >
  > you guys could simply move into the
  > http://www.vbxml.com/xpl
  > location I set up for you some time back.
  >
  > That would bring 40 000 visitors each month into
  > contact with this project - quite a boost!  Then when
  > you have a URL, then move in there (if you still think
  > you would be better off).
  >
  > Thoughts?
  >
  > Cheers,
  > Mark.
  >
  > __________________________________________________
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