[exprla-devel] Re: Hmm, Another Idea...Comments?!

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Michael Lauzon" <ce940@f...> wrote:
Jonathan,

I'm not spliting the group, it's the same group, working on the same 
thing; XPL & XPLScript are the same...one is web-based (XPLScript) 
that incorporates XHTML.  And the other is for major programming, if 
it can be said that way.  :)  To respond about Miva, it is not only 
for eCommerce, there are search engines built with it, chat sites, 
guest books, web-based email and what have you not.  Same with Cold 
Fusion, as well as Tango.  But, I will take your suggestion, about 
doing a write up on each of these, though it might take me a while as 
I have a summer JOB (Just Over Broke).

--- In xpl@e..., Jonathan Burns <saski@w...> wrote:
> Michael Lauzon wrote:
> 
> > I think we can do two directions for XPL at once.  I still think 
we
> > should make open source versions of Miva, Cold Fusion & Tango; but
> > the
> > XPL that will eventually handle that should be called XPLScript
> > (XPLS).  Though they will be based on XPL, what doesn't go to XPL 
can
> > go to XPLScript.  Comments, please?!
> >
> 
> Now that I've got a draft of the Groves stuff done, I can attend to
> this.
> 
> I've taken a look at Miva - at least, it has a few tags for 
arithmetic
> operations.
> Proof of concept.
> 
> I've scanned Allaire's Cold Fusion website, and that's about it. "70
> tags!" is all
> that sticks in my mind. Well, you can build a pretty big universe 
with
> 70 elements -
> look what we do with 91!
> 
> Tango, I haven't even looked.
> 
> 
> Now let me be frank.  I couldn't care less about Miva - and I 
couldn't
> care less
> about e-commerce as a whole. Cold Fusion is a target worth shooting 
at -
> but
> I have no desire to spend a couple of years developing the user 
service
> base
> which is an indispensable part of providing a system as widespread 
as
> Cold
> Fusion.
> 
> What I do care about is clarity in technical understanding. I've 
been
> around -
> I've seen that the concepts underlying software are not that hard - 
and
> I'm
> utterly dismayed at the black boxes around systems which deny the
> comprehension
> of the curious, and the unreadable academese which passes for
> documenation,
> and the invention of overlapping jargons by specialists; and the
> combined effect
> that all of these have, of making it look hard.
> 
> XML is a rare opportunity to start afresh. It's a chance to get a
> thousand data formats
> away from their host platforms, review them, analyse them down to 
their
> base concepts,
> unify them, and make the resulting simplified data language as
plain 
as
> day. So that
> anyone can get all they need to know about data representation and
> processing,
> from one source, with appropriately little effort.
> 
> So that there will be no more "must have two years experience in 
this
> buzzword we
> first heard last week" shit. No more obscurantism, no more
> quasi-elitism. Just simple
> principles for putting things together and making them work.
> 
> 
> XPL is my best chance to do just that.
> 
> My success with the group is something I measure by the 
comprehension I
> can
> convey - to the eventual users of XPL, but meantime to people like 
Ali
> and Richard
> with high intelligence and curiosity but maybe without the 
background.
> And likewise,
> what I can learn from experienced practitioners like Kurt.
> 
> To do this, it is necessary to get down to the basics, and bring 
them up
> to the focus
> of discussion. That's why, while jobless leisure permits me, I am
> getting my head
> around XPath and XPointers and CSS and XSLT and Groves, as fast as I
> possibly
> can. Then I will be able to say: "If we design our languages this 
way,
> then they
> will let us do that."
> 
> The result of a few of us doing so, I am fairly confident, will be 
that
> we can indeed
> create formats and processing languages for any purpose. Including 
the
> duplication
> of Cold Fusion functionality, if we want.
> 
> The long way round will be the shortest - because we'll be doing it 
with
> undertanding,
> every step.
> 
> So I think, that the shortest way to get to XPLScript as you 
conceive it
> will be, if you
> investigate Miva and Cold Fusion and Tango in detail - and write up 
what
> you find -
> and tell us what you find. Because some of us will have our 
strengths in
> conceiving
> applications - and some in defining basic mechanisms.
> 
> Don't split the group.
> 
> Give us the benefits of your application-level knowledge.
> 
> That way we share our strengths, while each one is free to exert 
his/her
> own to
> the fullest.
> 
> Sincerely
> Jonathan
--- End forwarded message ---