[exprla-devel] Re: [XPL] Hello, and a few comments.

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Jonathan Burns <saski@w...> wrote:
Kurt, thanks very much for this thorough review - and for the
invitation.

To my fellow contributing members of the XPL list over the past few
weeks:
I'm going to say something rather geeky here, but I think it's
important.

Kurt's post is a turning-point for the list. Up til now, it's been
reasonable
to see ourselves as working out a complex possibility on our own
initiative,
with our own resources, and within our own limitations. Which, let us
face it,
are considerable. To speak of my own, I'm a raw beginner at even the
basic
Web technologies (still have yet to write a non-trivial CGI program);
and I'm
desperately looking for work, which when I find it will almost 
certainly

knock the stuffing out of my concentration time.

Within our limitations, I'd say we've done pretty damn well. We've
managed to
canvass a lot of possibilities for what XPL can be and do. We've
identified
the major technologies where we can expect to find implementational
power,
and also integration with the wider XML community. Not least 
important,
we've
built up a sense of community, where everyone's contributions are
reoognized,
and nobody is discounted, e.g. for being a Web newbie.

That last one is extremely valuable to me. XPL is where I get to
articulate
ideas which come out of a quarter-century of experience, especially in
computer science, which don't seem relevant or welcome in any other
context.
There isn't anywhere else quite like XPL, for me.

Now we're being challenged in a sense, to take off the water-wings and
dive
in at the deep end; where there are people like Kurt who have been 
three

years at the cutting edge.

Compared to what the W3C/XML community are doing, implementing QBasic 
or

Miva as XML documents are very limited goals. I can see larger ones in
principle - but the limited goals are something we could realistically
achieve.

Now personally, I like the way that Alexander, Richard and now Kurt 
are
raising the stakes. It has already become clear that the whole gamut 
of
XML accessories - Xpath, Xlinks, the DOM, XSLT and more - enormously
extend the answers to the questions, What can we do with and to XML
documents? They may turn out to BE the answers - and they may make the
whole concept of XPL as a distinct language irrelevant in the end.
Whatever, we will inevitably have to integrate XPL's desing goals with
them, as Kurt says.

I just think - here's the geeky bit - that in a real sense this is
Michael
Lauzon's group. XPL is his inspiration, he got discussion started, set
up
the forum, and is going to some trouble to maintain it. That doesn't
make
him the boss, or right about everything, but to me it gives his views
some special authority.

Meaning, that if Mike thinks we should remain an affiliated but 
distinct

group, working toward a limited, but definite and achievable goal, 
then
I would support that. As far as I could, I would contibute to XPL and
VBXML both; but I would put my priority effort in making sure that 
this
group survives, more or less as it is.

On the other hand, if Mike thinks we can get further by casting our 
lot
with VBXML, I think it would be about ideal - with this qualification:

I need there to be a zone which is newbie-friendly. Some place where
the dumb questions are asked, and the answers spelled out. And nobody
is frozen out because they can't follow the jargon. And everybody gets
respect. If I have to moderate it myself.

See, I think that the XML technologies are ultimately simple. XML was
designed to be, and that accounts for much of its rapid spread. I 
could
teach it to high-school kids. But, there is always the tendency to
speed the discussions with shorthand that turns into private jargon,
or with high computer-science abstractions, which are already pretty
cryptic. And that will freeze newcomers out, unless there is a special
effort made to maintain clarity, and to keep the bridges open between
the general community and the cutting edge. That special effort is my
forte - and that's where you'll find me, if necessary at the expense
of my participation in some of the advanced efforts.

Goodwill
Jonathan

"Oh god. This job application's been a whole year in process!"

"Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you..."
--- End forwarded message ---