Thread: [exprla-devel] Re: [XPL] strengths and weaknesses

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--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Kurt Cagle" <cagle@o...> wrote:
Richard,

I'd dare say that simply keeping things organized around here is a 
better
strength than many of us bring to this table -- you're doing good 
with it,
and you're insight will carry you far.

For myself,
Strengths -- working with most scripting technologies since the early 
1980s,
both client and server, a multimedia background, grounding in systems
theory, complex analysis and chaos, and in general a fairly broad 
overview
of programming principles and practices. Interest in both human and 
computer
based languages, semantics, and philosophy.  Writes pretty good 
science
fiction and draws a sexy mermaid.

Weaknesses -- not well organized (what do you expect, I study chaos!),
database skills at the basic SQL level (I could tell you what a 
trigger was,
but would have to look up its syntax to write one), no formal 
training as a
computer programmer (which may or may not be a weakness), tendency to
overcommit to projects.

Kurt Cagle

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hein" <935551@i...>
To: <xpl@e...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 4:22 PM
Subject: [XPL] strengths and weaknesses

> Dear XPLers,
>
> I want to make a few comments on the past little while I have been
> part of this group, and the feelings I have so far about taking
> part.  I feel that everyone probably has strengths and weaknesses in
> relation to what we are doing, and maybe it's time we let each other
> know what we can and can't really do, so that we are able to
> effectively split up some tasks among members.
>
> I personally am not a great programmer.  That's a weakness.  My OOP
> experience is minimal, and only related to my own personal research
> and tutorials I've taken.  I've never written a program from start 
to
> finish in Java, C++ or any other OOP language.  This bites, because
> it obviously limits what I can do.  I program in VB and (mostly VBA,
> for Access, in which I have completed 3 full lifecycle database
> applications in the past year, from analysis to support, including
> one that uses a Palm III to collect and scan inventory, and done 
lots
> of maintenance and user-interface stuff for about 3 years), SQL (MS
> SQL Server 7 - but I am not very experienced with it).  I am not a
> web developer yet ... but have been trying really hard to become
> one.
>
> I think I understand most of the XML concepts and technologies, what
> they are able to do, and how they relate, but I am far from a
> complete understanding.  I have tried and tried to make an
> interactive database on the web using XML and ADO linked to SQL
> Server, using stored procedures, for about 2 months, and spent about
> 9 months so far, trying to absorb all the info related to XML I can
> handle.  I still haven't pulled off the interactive database yet.
>
> That's pretty sad, I know.
>
> The reason is almost certainly my weakness in ASP, COM and Java
> related technologies, like EJBs.  At this point I haven't been able
> to work it all out yet.  Presenting static data, or data input
> controls in XML/XSL is easy, but trying to get it back to the
> database from which it originated, has proven very hard for me.
>
> Just last night I figured it out - in theory, and soon in practice, 
I
> HOPE.  I didn't realize that it required some things I didn't know
> about to get that data back in.  I found a tutorial at www.xml-
> zone.com that finally made it clear what I had to do, and I am 
pretty
> happy to have read the author's comments that it was a lot of work
> for him to figure out how to do the same thing I have been trying to
> do.  At least he had the benefit of other programmers to talk to
> while figuring it out ... I work independently, and the only
> programmer communication I get is online.  Sometimes I am just too
> embarrassed to ask for help, because I think it should be obvious.
> Well, I finally realized that my pride has gotten in the way of my
> success.
>
> So, I am putting pride aside, and saying I don't know much about any
> of this stuff, even though I research and study it all day and into
> the early morning hours.  I have been coddled by VB and VBA for so
> long I have forgotten most of what I learned about programming to
> begin with (I started programming Basic games from code in magazines
> back when I was 7 years old, on our TRS-80 - dad read the code 
letter
> by letter, while I typed it in, and we'd switch when I got tired).
>
> So what do I have to offer the XPL group at all??
>
> I hope I can offer my research ability.  That's my strength, I
> believe, more than anything.  That's what I do best ... look for
> information that relates, and pass it along.  Sometimes it's 
useless,
> and wrong, because of the limitations I mentioned above.  Sometimes
> it's helpful.
>
> For those of you that are really talented at programming, and have a
> strong knowledge of compilers, languages, design, project 
management,
> and internet protocols (that's another weakness for me), etc ..., 
you
> can spend a lot more time doing those things, and get me to search
> out the corners of the internet for information you need.
>
> I know enough about this stuff to be able to find the information 
you
> might need, if you want my help, even if I don't know exactly how to
> implement it.  Then I can learn more, and grow, and you don't have 
to
> waste as much time as you might otherwise.  In return, I will be
> gaining knowledge and wonderful experience from you all.  By the 
time
> this thing is done, I will be a great XPL programmer!  :-)  I am
> learning Java right now as well, and studying up on computer 
language
> design, sematics, compilers and more, just so I can be valuable to
> this group.
>
> However, I recognize the fact that I say far-out things, and make
> major mistakes.  I need input concerning these mistakes, and
> unrealistic ideas.  Please, and I mean it sincerely, DON'T let me go
> away believing something WRONG!  Correct me, and I will learn and
> grow.  Maybe it's just annoying to have to respond to things I say
> that are nonsense to you, and I can understand that.  But the choice
> is to either correct me, or to let me say stupid things forever, and
> be a burden to the group, until I finally give up and leave.
>
> I really want to be a part of this, and it's become an obsession -
> just ask my girlfriend - boy she hates XPL! I think that there are
> other people, in similar position to me in this group who feel they
> can't contribute much, but are far less vocal (um ... well, not
> VOCAL, but you get my drift) than I am.
>
> However, they must have something to contribute, and together we can
> be very beneficial ... just the very idea that if we don't 
understand
> XPL, lots of other people won't either, is reason enough for us to 
be
> here.
>
> On the other hand, it must be a pain in the proverbial you-know-what
> to try to work on something like XPL, and be surrounded by
> unknowledgable people, who interfere with the "real" work of the
> experts and gurus among the group.
>
> But on the other-other-hand (if you are a three armed mutant, like
> me, which explains why I type so bloody much ;-)), maybe the fact
> that we are coming in with a pretty open (or empty - like Buddha :-
))
> mind will help XPL break through the classic paradigms that other
> language concepts hold to, but may not work well at all for XPL.
> Older and more experienced people in OOP may be stuck on the idea
> that XPL should be like [insert your favorite language here], but
> that may be completely wrong for the new framework that XML demands
> to make the "programmable web".
>
> I'm a dreamer and an idea man.  Perhaps 90 - 99% of my ideas don't
> work, and 90 - 99% of my dreams have never come true.  But I have
> hundreds of them, so one of them is going to work someday!  I love 
to
> study, and love to read about new things, but I am not the type of
> person who is good at actually doing it ... I feel that the fun is 
in
> discovery, not implementation.  My motivation is mostly gone once I
> figure out how something is done, and when I go to use it, I don't
> weather through it well, because it's boring to me.  So that means a
> lot of the time I don't really know if it will work - which is why I
> say, "perhaps this will be helpful".
>
> So, these are my strengths and weaknesses, and I hope that you all
> can work with them, and maybe in time those weaknesses will turn to
> strengths.  I hope so.  I have no illusions that XPL is a massive
> undertaking, and will take a long time to bring into the world, so I
> need to know if you all will be able to stand me, and if I am 
helping
> or hurting the group, because I want to see it happen - even if I am
> just a bystander (although it's way more fun to be part of it), and 
I
> don't want to be a stumbling block.
>
> Sorry for the long email ... again.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Richard A. Hein
>
>
>
>
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