exist-open

[Exist-open] Current Status of XForms?

[Gary K. <ge...@ru...>]

While I'm an experienced Java programmer, I am new to eXist, XQuery, and
XForms. I wish to create an eXist XForms web application and right now I
need a little guidance on where to start. I've installed the eXist demo
apps, which includes an XForms restxq application. Of course it doesn't work
out of the box because no XForms processors are installed, neither
betterform nor XSLTForms. Which should I install - or rather, which
currently works? Betterform is no longer included with the eXist
distribution. It is available for download from Sourceforge as
betterform-install-5.0rc5.jar but I can't find any actual instructions for
installation/configuration. Should I bother with it? As far as XSLTForms
goes, I wanted to see a sample of a client-side page, and the documentation
provides a link to hello.xml for this, but that page doesn't seem to exist
anywhere. Any help here?

 

While I'm at, I guess I could consider Orbeon Forms (community edition). It
deprecated eXist support, but I'm guessing it's still in the code. Any
success/failure stories to share?

 

Thanks in advance from a newbie.

 

--Gary Kopp

 

 

Re: [Exist-open] Current Status of XForms?

[Finian O'B. <fin...@gm...>]

Hi Gary,

All of my applications within eXist use XForms. I developed them using
betterForm, but when support for it was removed from eXist, I converted
them all to Orbeon using the Community Edition. I chose it because it
implements W3C XForms standard and because it supports a wide range of
form elements, but most importantly it is under current maintenance. I
run eXist 5.2.0 and Orbeon 19.2 CE, but do so in a way in which they
both run independently within the same servlet container - in my case I
use eXist's Jetty, but it is also possible to use Tomcat.

Orbeon and eXist work together to render XForms by using cross-context
communication within the servlet container: the Orbeon developers call
this separate deployment. Requests to eXist for an XForms page are
intercepted by a servlet filter within eXist's context and are passed
to Orbeon. The XForms/XHTML markup is transformed into an XHTML web
page with links to supporting JavaScript and CSS. This page is returned
to the browser from eXist, and the JavaScript/CSS requests are serviced
by the servlet filter.

Configuring this scenario requires a small number of changes within
both eXist and Orbeon. To summarise them for eXist you need to:

1. Amend web.xml to add a servlet filter and mappings to intercept
XForms pages
2. Copy orbeon-xforms-filter.jar to eXist's /lib directory
3. Disable betterFORM globally if it is included in your version of
eXist

For Orbeon you need to:

1. Download the latest version of Orbeon CE and place orbeon.war in the
servlet container
2. Disable the Orbeon Form Runner login service defined within web.xml
3. Create properties-local.xml to configure Orbeon to accept requests
from eXist

When I set it up I created a page that fits into the standard eXist
documentation explaining in detail how to effect these changes. I can
let you have that if you're interested.

Having said all of that, if I were starting from scratch I would
consider the alternatives to XForms. Although I have found eXist/XForms
very flexible and easy to use, it seems to me to be something of an
edge-case these days. I'm sure people here would have ideas as to more
modern technologies.

Finian


On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 18:52 -0600, Gary Kopp wrote:
> While I’m an experienced Java programmer, I am new to eXist, XQuery,
> and XForms. I wish to create an eXist XForms web application and
> right now I need a little guidance on where to start. I’ve installed
> the eXist demo apps, which includes an XForms restxq application. Of
> course it doesn’t work out of the box because no XForms processors
> are installed, neither betterform nor XSLTForms. Which should I
> install – or rather, which currently works? Betterform is no longer
> included with the eXist distribution. It is available for download
> from Sourceforge as betterform-install-5.0rc5.jar but I can’t find
> any actual instructions for installation/configuration. Should I
> bother with it? As far as XSLTForms goes, I wanted to see a sample of
> a client-side page, and the documentation provides a link to
> hello.xml for this, but that page doesn’t seem to exist anywhere. Any
> help here?
>  
> While I’m at, I guess I could consider Orbeon Forms (community
> edition). It deprecated eXist support, but I’m guessing it’s still in
> the code. Any success/failure stories to share?
>  
> Thanks in advance from a newbie.
>  
> --Gary Kopp
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________Exist-open mailing 
> lis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/exist-open
> 

Re: [Exist-open] Current Status of XForms?

[Omar S. <Oma...@oe...>]

We try to maintain and extend MerMEId[1], which was developed using 
Orbeon forms some years ago. We created a specialized Docker image[2] 
for MerMEId. As the XForms are quite complex we opted to use Orbeon and 
not port them to some other solution.
You can probably adapt this to your needs.
It has a few pecularities
* We use Orbeon 2018 CE as our XFroms seem to cause problems with more
   recent Versions, but the setup would be the same.
* The MerMEId exist app is hardcoded as the default app, something you
   Probably want to change
* There are some "magic" XFroms paths/collectionms that need to be set
   in configuration files when adding Orbeon to the exist container
* exist does not run in the /exist servlet context but as / context.
   This was once supported but now for example Dashboard has problems
   with login in this configuration.
I am in the process of getting the Orbeon XForms examples to work on 
exist[3].

Best regards
Omar Siam

[1]https://github.com/edirom/mermeid
[2]https://hub.docker.com/r/edirom/mermeid
[3]https://github.com/acdh-oeaw/orbeon-xforms-examples-for-exist-db

Re: [Exist-open] Current Status of XForms?

[Joern T. <joe...@gm...>]

Finian,

On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 10:01 AM Finian O'Boyle <fin...@gm...>
wrote:

> Hi Gary,
>
> All of my applications within eXist use XForms. I developed them using
> betterForm, but when support for it was removed from eXist, I converted
> them all to Orbeon using the Community Edition. I chose it because it
> implements W3C XForms standard and because it supports a wide range of form
> elements, but most importantly it is under current maintenance. I run eXist
> 5.2.0 and Orbeon 19.2 CE, but do so in a way in which they both run
> independently within the same servlet container - in my case I use eXist's
> Jetty, but it is also possible to use Tomcat.
>
> Orbeon and eXist work together to render XForms by using cross-context
> communication within the servlet container: the Orbeon developers call this
> separate deployment. Requests to eXist for an XForms page are intercepted
> by a servlet filter within eXist's context and are passed to Orbeon. The
> XForms/XHTML markup is transformed into an XHTML web page with links to
> supporting JavaScript and CSS. This page is returned to the browser from
> eXist, and the JavaScript/CSS requests are serviced by the servlet filter.
>
> Configuring this scenario requires a small number of changes within both
> eXist and Orbeon. To summarise them for eXist you need to:
>
> 1. Amend web.xml to add a servlet filter and mappings to intercept XForms
> pages
> 2. Copy orbeon-xforms-filter.jar to eXist's /lib directory
> 3. Disable betterFORM globally if it is included in your version of eXist
>
> For Orbeon you need to:
>
> 1. Download the latest version of Orbeon CE and place orbeon.war in the
> servlet container
> 2. Disable the Orbeon Form Runner login service defined within web.xml
> 3. Create properties-local.xml to configure Orbeon to accept requests from
> eXist
>
> When I set it up I created a page that fits into the standard eXist
> documentation explaining in detail how to effect these changes. I can let
> you have that if you're interested.
>
> A lot of setup right? And it was similar with betterFORM which had quite
the same architecture as Orbeon. Also here the problems start as the
provided (generated) JS, CSS code for understandable reasons has to commit
to a certain client-side framework and provide a complete set of controls.
The conceptual mapping from abstract UI control in XForms to real-world
controls caused another complexity. Which is all fine and good as long as
you don't need that special control that's not provided or not in the form
you'd like. All in all the architectures of Orbeon and betterFORM are quite
heavy though very powerful. But they come to a significant cost in terms of
knowledge and maintenance.


> Having said all of that, if I were starting from scratch I would consider
> the alternatives to XForms. Although I have found eXist/XForms very
> flexible and easy to use, it seems to me to be something of an edge-case
> these days. I'm sure people here would have ideas as to more modern
> technologies.
>
XForms and eXist-db of course fit extremely well as you're dealing with XML
through the whole stack without any mapping whatsoever. That in itself is
IMO a big selling point.

As for the 'more modern' technologies - the XForms architecture is still
outstanding in the area of form processing IMHO but it could be dedusted ;)
Fore is an attempt to do that purely client-side (but with server-side
validation support) in native browser technologies plus XPath/XQuery 3

Yep - it's beta

Joern


> Finian
>
>
> On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 18:52 -0600, Gary Kopp wrote:
>
> While I’m an experienced Java programmer, I am new to eXist, XQuery, and
> XForms. I wish to create an eXist XForms web application and right now I
> need a little guidance on where to start. I’ve installed the eXist demo
> apps, which includes an XForms restxq application. Of course it doesn’t
> work out of the box because no XForms processors are installed, neither
> betterform nor XSLTForms. Which should I install – or rather, which
> currently works? Betterform is no longer included with the eXist
> distribution. It is available for download from Sourceforge as
> betterform-install-5.0rc5.jar but I can’t find any actual instructions for
> installation/configuration. Should I bother with it? As far as XSLTForms
> goes, I wanted to see a sample of a client-side page, and the documentation
> provides a link to hello.xml for this, but that page doesn’t seem to exist
> anywhere. Any help here?
>
>
>
> While I’m at, I guess I could consider Orbeon Forms (community edition).
> It deprecated eXist support, but I’m guessing it’s still in the code. Any
> success/failure stories to share?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance from a newbie.
>
>
>
> --Gary Kopp
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Exist-open mailing list
>
> Exi...@li...
>
>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/exist-open
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Exist-open mailing list
> Exi...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/exist-open
>

Re: [Exist-open] Current Status of XForms?

[Finian O'B. <fin...@gm...>]

Joern,
I agree with your observations - I've always thought
XML/XQuery/XSLT/eXist/RestXQ/XForms provided a really elegant
development solution. That over the course of almost a decade I
converted from simple eXist/HTML to eXist/Orbeon, then to
eXist/betterForm and finally back to a "homebrew" eXist/Orbeon setup
is, I think, a token of my commitment! And I appreciate what you say
about the heaviness of both betterForm and Orbeon, which is why I
suggested looking at alternatives.
Thank you for the links to your work on Fore - I will look at it more
carefully. I thought you had stopped work on it, because I had been
following links from the old betterForm pages. More power to your
elbow.
Finian
On Tue, 2021-03-30 at 12:35 +0200, Joern Turner wrote:
> Finian,
> 
> On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 10:01 AM Finian O'Boyle <
> fin...@gm...> wrote:
> > Hi Gary,
> > 
> > All of my applications within eXist use XForms. I developed them
> > using betterForm, but when support for it was removed from eXist, I
> > converted them all to Orbeon using the Community Edition. I chose
> > it because it implements W3C XForms standard and because it
> > supports a wide range of form elements, but most importantly it is
> > under current maintenance. I run eXist 5.2.0 and Orbeon 19.2 CE,
> > but do so in a way in which they both run independently within the
> > same servlet container - in my case I use eXist's Jetty, but it is
> > also possible to use Tomcat.
> > 
> > Orbeon and eXist work together to render XForms by using cross-
> > context communication within the servlet container: the Orbeon
> > developers call this separate deployment. Requests to eXist for an
> > XForms page are intercepted by a servlet filter within eXist's
> > context and are passed to Orbeon. The XForms/XHTML markup is
> > transformed into an XHTML web page with links to supporting
> > JavaScript and CSS. This page is returned to the browser from
> > eXist, and the JavaScript/CSS requests are serviced by the servlet
> > filter.
> > 
> > Configuring this scenario requires a small number of changes within
> > both eXist and Orbeon. To summarise them for eXist you need to:
> > 
> > 1. Amend web.xml to add a servlet filter and mappings to intercept
> > XForms pages
> > 2. Copy orbeon-xforms-filter.jar to eXist's /lib directory
> > 3. Disable betterFORM globally if it is included in your version of
> > eXist
> > 
> > For Orbeon you need to:
> > 
> > 1. Download the latest version of Orbeon CE and place orbeon.war in
> > the servlet container
> > 2. Disable the Orbeon Form Runner login service defined within
> > web.xml
> > 3. Create properties-local.xml to configure Orbeon to accept
> > requests from eXist
> > 
> > When I set it up I created a page that fits into the standard eXist
> > documentation explaining in detail how to effect these changes. I
> > can let you have that if you're interested.
> > 
> > 
> A lot of setup right? And it was similar with betterFORM which had
> quite the same architecture as Orbeon. Also here the problems start
> as the provided (generated) JS, CSS code for understandable reasons
> has to commit to a certain client-side framework and provide a
> complete set of controls. The conceptual mapping from abstract UI
> control in XForms to real-world controls caused another complexity.
> Which is all fine and good as long as you don't need that special
> control that's not provided or not in the form you'd like. All in all
> the architectures of Orbeon and betterFORM are quite heavy though
> very powerful. But they come to a significant cost in terms of
> knowledge and maintenance. 
>  
> > Having said all of that, if I were starting from scratch I would
> > consider the alternatives to XForms. Although I have found
> > eXist/XForms very flexible and easy to use, it seems to me to be
> > something of an edge-case these days. I'm sure people here would
> > have ideas as to more modern technologies.
> XForms and eXist-db of course fit extremely well as you're dealing
> with XML through the whole stack without any mapping whatsoever. That
> in itself is IMO a big selling point.
> As for the 'more modern' technologies - the XForms architecture is
> still outstanding in the area of form processing IMHO but it could be
> dedusted ;) Fore is an attempt to do that purely client-side (but
> with server-side validation support) in native browser technologies
> plus XPath/XQuery 3
> Yep - it's beta
> Joern
> > Finian
> > 
> > On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 18:52 -0600, Gary Kopp wrote:
> > > While I’m an experienced Java programmer, I am new to eXist,
> > > XQuery, and XForms. I wish to create an eXist XForms web
> > > application and right now I need a little guidance on where to
> > > start. I’ve installed the eXist demo apps, which includes an
> > > XForms restxq application. Of course it doesn’t work out of the
> > > box because no XForms processors are installed, neither
> > > betterform nor XSLTForms. Which should I install – or rather,
> > > which currently works? Betterform is no longer included with the
> > > eXist distribution. It is available for download from Sourceforge
> > > as betterform-install-5.0rc5.jar but I can’t find any actual
> > > instructions for installation/configuration. Should I bother with
> > > it? As far as XSLTForms goes, I wanted to see a sample of a
> > > client-side page, and the documentation provides a link to
> > > hello.xml for this, but that page doesn’t seem to exist anywhere.
> > > Any help here?
> > >  
> > > While I’m at, I guess I could consider Orbeon Forms (community
> > > edition). It deprecated eXist support, but I’m guessing it’s
> > > still in the code. Any success/failure stories to share?
> > >  
> > > Thanks in advance from a newbie.
> > >  
> > > --Gary Kopp
> > >  
> > >  _______________________________________________Exist-open
> > > mailing lis...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/exist-open
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Exist-open mailing list
> > 
> > Exi...@li...
> > 
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/exist-open
> >