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From: Marty C. <md...@et...> - 2005-12-28 11:02:28
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On Dec 22, 2005, at 6:09 PM, James Harper wrote:
> I'm (slowly) working on AoE (ATA over Ethernet) support, using =20
> Etherboot
> as a base.
Neat. I hope it's something we can integrate into Etherboot.
> The idea is that when the rom executes first, it gives a 'hit ctrl-a=20=
> (?)
> for setup' message and if the key combination is hit, enters into a
> setup screen. Assuming that it is set to be active, it installs the
> int19 handler and returns control to the O/S. (PnP obviously behaves a
> bit differently but same sort of thing)
The 3C905x with a LanWorks boot ROM does something like this (I think =20=
it's a different key combination).
I think they must save some information to the Flash EEPROM BOOTROM, =20
unless they are actually writing to the tiny serial EEPROM on card. =20
Does anyone know for sure? Not all cards have this, and some (the =20
Intel EEPRO100 comes to mind) might need extra help to do this.
> The int19 handler then probes drives and assuming a drive is found for
> this machine, installs an int13 handler and then boots.
Sounds plausible.
> At the moment I'm stuck in that when the rom vector is called, I =20
> want to
> call 32 bit code to run the setup etc (setup will need to be able to
> probe drives etc so it needs to pretty much have the whole show
> running). This much works, but I can't get it to return properly to =20=
> the
> operating system... things hang at this point :(
Michael Brown is head hacker, and he's distracted by other work right =20=
now. There are probably other folks on the list who can answer the =20
question better than I can.
Michael highly recommends the use of Bochs, and Open Source x86 =20
emulator which he has used extensively for the development of =20
Etherboot. I have also used it, and it is impressive.
It might make it easier for your to develop and test things. The =20
hardest part is getting it set up, since you have to do some =20
networking magic to get the routing right, since it's a virtual =20
machine. I'm sure we can help you with that, though.
> A previous incantation was more or less working but was extremely
> hardcoded (no setup screen etc) and completely butchered Etherboot =20
> in a
> way that made a compile time option (eg make -DAOE_BOOT ne.zrom) an
> impossibility. It did almost boot linux though.
I'd like to see this work, and will help where I can. I'm not as =20
skilled in the low-level interface as some, but I want to learn, and =20
am getting better in my understanding of it. It's only a matter of =20
time.
> If anyone is intimate with the whole 16 bit / 32 bit thing and =20
> might be
> able to offer some assistance with the bug I'm having, I'd love to =20
> hear
> from you!!!
We're gearing up for some serious Etherboot hacking in the next few =20
months, so I hope you (and anyone else interested) will stick around.
It's a funny analogy, but Open Source hacking is a little like =20
surfing. We wait for a wave, and we come out and ride it as long as =20
we can.
Right now, there are a number of us gearing up to hack. We all have =20
day jobs, and have to honor our other obligations, but it's great =20
when we can work together on something that brings us joy and the =20
satisfaction of doing. I live for these times, and I work and save =20
for them too.
> <offtopic> Once I have an AoE int13 driver, which will be enough to =20=
> boot
> DOS and bootstrap any O/S with a native AoE driver,
I'm wondering if you could use Etherboot to boot PXELINUX, which =20
would load MEMDISK (a DOS disk emulator), which would then load a DOS =20=
AoE driver? You might want to check out:
http://wiki.etherboot.org/pmwiki.php/Main/BootingMemdisk
I think you can ignore all the mknbi stuff. I you just want to get =20
PXELINUX up and running, and let it load your floppy image.
> I might take a deep
> breath and have a crack at a Windows driver (the Linux driver already
> exists and is more than stable). There is a windows driver in the
> pipeline, but I've had a look at a beta and it seems to come with a =20=
> huge
> amount of overhead, and is almost certainly proprietry. I'm sure it =20=
> will
> work great and probably perform a lot better than anything I can =20
> come up
> with, but I don't think is something that could be used as the second
> stage windows bootloader. </offtopic>
Hopefully you'll have so much fun hacking Etherboot that you'll =20
forget such thoughts ;-)
I find hacking closed-source stuff to be much less interesting than =20
in the old days. It's neat to figure out what's going on inside the =20
box and interface with it, but it often seems a hollow victory, since =20=
I am often operating one step removed from definitive information.
> Thanks
> James
And thank you for your message. I hope you keep going. The next =20
wave will be coming, and I hope you're riding it with us.
Marty
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: eth...@li...
> [mailto:etherboot-
>> dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Marty Connor
>> Sent: Friday, 23 December 2005 09:17
>> To: Etherboot Developers List
>> Cc: Etherboot Users List
>> Subject: [Etherboot-developers] Development directions
>>
>> Holiday Greetings to everyone!
>>
>> As it looks like I will finally have more time to actively work on
>> Etherboot again, I thought I'd write down some thoughts, and invite
>> conversation. All ideas are welcome, so feel free to speak up.
>>
>> One of the most satisfying things about programming (or really any
>> collaborative activity) is talking to people who are interested in
>> it. I've been programming for over 30 years now, and it is still =20
>> fun.
>>
>> So, I've been thinking quite a lot of late about what we can do to
>> make Etherboot better.
>> It's a hard question, because it immediately brings to mind the
>> questions:
>>
>> better for who?
>> better in what ways?
>>
>> For me, making Etherboot useful to people is important. Most of the
>> things I've added to Etherboot have been because I felt they would
>> allow it to be useful to more people.
>>
>> At this point, however, I'm taking a hard look at Etherboot, and
>> thinking that I'd like to strip out some of the things that have been
>> added over the years. Just as Mozilla spawned Firefox and
>> Thunderbird, I'd like to create GPXE from Etherboot.
>>
>> Basically, what I have in mind is to create a new module called gpxe,
>> and take Etherboot 5.4, and using it as a base, strip out things that
>> don't work, or aren't supported, or that no longer make sense for a
>> PXE-centric bootloader.
>>
>> 5.4 will continue to be actively maintained, of course, and there
>> have been some really nice contributions lately. One reason to
>> create another module is because it's really hard to change Etherboot
>> without disrupting people who depend on one feature or another.
>>
>> Speaking of development, Michael Brown is going to be continuing work
>> on 5.5 in the not-too-distant future, which has a lot of nice
>> improvements and simplifications, and now seems like a good time to
>> work on gpxe. Having Michael actively back in the development mix
>> will be great, as he knows the internals of Etherboot better than
>> anyone at present.
>>
>> I'd also like to find out who else is interested in actively
>> programming on Etherboot / GPXE. Most of our programming is done by
>> a few people, and that's probably always going to be the case, just
>> because it's a rather specialized kind of work. But I also think
>> that there might be some people who would like to learn, and if there
>> are, please let me know, or just join in the discussion. Programming
>> bare-metal and close to the machine can be a lot of fun, and is very
>> educational. I hope if you have an interest, you'll join this
>> conversation.
>>
>> Another thing that comes to mind is whether the separation between
>> Etherboot-Developers and Etherboot-Users still makes sense. Given
>> rom-o-matic.net, I wonder if we should just have Etherboot-Discuss
>> for people interested in keeping up with the project, and Etherboot-
>> Announce for people who just want to know about new releases.
>> Etherboot-Developers has over 100 people on it, but only a handful
>> actively developing.
>>
>> So that's what's on my mind. What's on yours?
>>
>> Let's get some conversation going, and see where it leads.
>>
>> Warmest Greetings of the Season to all,
>>
>> Marty
>>
>> --
>> Try: http://rom-o-matic.net/ to make Etherboot images instantly.
>>
>> Name: Marty Connor
>> US Mail: Entity Cyber, Inc.; P.O. Box 391827;
>> Cambridge, MA 02139; USA
>> Voice: (617) 491-6935; Fax: (617) 491-7046
>> Email: md...@et...
>> Web: http://www.etherboot.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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