Re: [ES40-developers] SCSI support for OpenVMS has arrived
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Re: [ES40-developers] SCSI support for OpenVMS has arrived
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From: <fa...@un...> - 2008-02-18 19:38:18
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Quoting "Hittner, David T." <dav...@ng...>:
> Nah, your install process has hung or died.
>
> Try this, just for the fun of it :-)
> Download and install the (free) Personal Alpha emulator.
> See how long it takes to install OpenVMS. You'll be suprised. 8-O
>
> Dave
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: es4...@li...
>> [mailto:es4...@li...] On
>> Behalf Of fa...@un...
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:27 PM
>> To: es4...@li...
>> Subject: Re: [ES40-developers] SCSI support for OpenVMS has arrived
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> after 6 hours the installation is always at 50%.
>> I don't think it's a nice thing.
>>
>> Has anybody some experience with timings of OpenVMS 8.3 installation.
>>
>> My PC is quite fast... quadcore with 4GB of ram, so I don't
>> think it's a speed problem.
>> By the way I'll keep the emulator running for other 2
>> hours... and let's see.
>> :-)
>>
>> regards,
>> fausto
>>
>> Quoting Camiel Vanderhoeven <iam...@gm...>:
>>
>> > Hello Fausto,
>> >
>> > We've seen those occasionally during the installation process.
>> > Sometimes it all works flawless, sometimes we come across
>> one or more
>> > of these ACCVIO's... It beats me... It's usually fine if
>> you reply NO
>> > to the "terminate" question.
>> >
>> > Camiel.
>> >
>> > On Feb 18, 2008 3:46 PM, <fa...@un...> wrote:
>> >> Hello all,
>> >>
>> >> some news from Installation world :-)
>> >>
>> >> The Openvms installation fails (40%) with a OpenVMS error
>> (no errors
>> >> in DOS console), maybe some memory error (???).
>> >>
>> >> %PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ...
>> >> %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual
>> >> address=000000000019E08C, PC=000000007FDC3BB4, PS=0000001B
>> >>
>> >> %PCSI-E-MODREPLERR, error replacing module INSTALL in library
>> >> DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON.][SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE
>> >> -SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=!XB, virtual
>> >> address=!XH, PC=!XH, PS=!XL %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failed
>> >> Terminating is strongly recommended. Do you want to
>> terminate? [YES]
>> >>
>> >> I replied "NO" :-) So I'll keep you in touch about the news...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> regards,
>> >> fausto
>> >>
>> >> Quoting Camiel Vanderhoeven <iam...@gm...>:
>> >>
>> >> > Hello Fausto,
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, those appear to be quite normal. Basically it is the scsi
>> >> > driver asking for more data than the device has to offer. The
>> >> > device will respectfully decline to send more bytes, and
>> the driver
>> >> > has no problem with that. I'll put the messages inside a
>> >> > conditional statement, as they are only meaningful when
>> debugging the SCSI-interface.
>> >> >
>> >> > Camiel.
>> >> >
>> >> > P.S. These specific occurrences of this message are all
>> related to
>> >> > OpenVMS' use of the MODE SENSE command. It will set up a
>> buffer of
>> >> > 256 bytes for it, tell the device to perform a MODE
>> SENSE command
>> >> > and return 255 bytes max (the maximum allowed), then try
>> to get up
>> >> > to 256 bytes from the device.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Feb 18, 2008 2:32 PM, <fa...@un...> wrote:
>> >> >> Hello Camiel,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> i'm testing the new code, all seems ok. Now the init
>> works and the
>> >> >> installation proceed without any probs.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Just a quick update... during the installation boot, I
>> have these
>> >> >> "errors" (????):
>> >> >>
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 240 bytes, max 239 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 256 bytes, max 255 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 256 bytes, max 255 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 256 bytes, max 255 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 256 bytes, max 255 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 240 bytes, max 239 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 256 bytes, max 255 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 256 bytes, max 255 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 256 bytes, max 255 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >> SYM: xfer 256 bytes, max 255 expected, in phase 1.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >>
>> >> >> etc...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> are they normal?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> thanks,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> fausto
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Quoting Camiel Vanderhoeven <iam...@gm...>:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Hello Fausto,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I found that this was caused by the READ DISC INFO
>> command. This
>> >> >> > command is required only on CD-R/RW devices, which we're not
>> >> >> > emulating, so rather than try to fi it, I removed support for
>> >> >> > this command, returning an ILLEGAL REQUEST sense code instead.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I've updated it in CVS as well.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Camiel.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Feb 18, 2008 1:30 PM, Camiel Vanderhoeven
>> >> <iam...@gm...> wrote:
>> >> >> >> Hi Fausto,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Yes, I did update the code in CVS. I'm trying to
>> boot from the
>> >> >> >> VMS 8.3 installation cd on the scsi bus, and I see
>> what you mean.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> It seems to be looping on a sequence of 4 scsi commands:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> INQUIRY
>> >> >> >> READ DISK INFO
>> >> >> >> INQUIRY
>> >> >> >> TEST UNIT READY
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I'll see if I can find out what's going on...
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Camiel.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Feb 18, 2008 1:22 PM, <fa...@un...> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Hello Camiel,
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > did you update the CVS?
>> >> >> >> > I updated the code few mins ago, but now the OpenVMS 8.3
>> >> installation
>> >> >> >> > seems to loop shortly after the OpenVMS banner.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > These are the memory addresses: 187868 | ffffffff801aa170
>> >> >> >> > 285915 | ffffffff80012208
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Before the latest update (when I reported the
>> format error),
>> >> >> >> > 1 min after the openvms banner, I had "Installing
>> some known
>> >> >> >> > required files..." message, but in this case,
>> after about 10
>> >> >> >> > mins, nothing happens.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > regards,
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > fausto
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Quoting Camiel Vanderhoeven <iam...@gm...>:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > > And once again a mail on this subject:
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > I think the problem has been solved. The SCSI command
>> >> READ CAPACITY
>> >> >> >> > > returned the number of blocks on disk, where it should
>> >> return the LBA
>> >> >> >> > > address of the last block on disk (which is one
>> less); this
>> >> >> >> > > caused initialize to try to write beyond the last block.
>> >> >> >> > > This has
>> >> >> been fixed,
>> >> >> >> > > and initialize now works.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Camiel.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > On Feb 17, 2008 4:49 PM, Camiel Vanderhoeven
>> >> >> >> <iam...@gm...> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >> Hello,
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> I've made a couple of changes (implemented some missing
>> >> >> >> > >> SCSI commands), but now an attempt to
>> initialize (format)
>> >> >> >> > >> a SCSI
>> >> >> disk fails
>> >> >> >> > >> with
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> $ init dka500 test
>> >> >> >> > >> %INIT-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline $
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> Which is a bit strange, because sho dev shows
>> the device
>> >> >> >> > >> as
>> >> >> "online".
>> >> >> >> > >> The attempt to format the disk increases the
>> error-count by one.
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> Camiel.
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> On Feb 16, 2008 8:36 PM, <fa...@un...> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >> > Hello again,
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > maybe too fast to write my previous message :-) The
>> >> >> >> > >> > emulator crashed when it started to format
>> the disk with
>> >> >> >> this message:
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > pci0.3(sym53c810).disk0.0(file): Unknown SCSI
>> command 0x03.
>> >> >> >> > >> > SCSI Command Failed: ..\Disk.cpp, line 1390
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > Freeing memory in use by system...
>> >> >> >> > >> > %VGA-I-SHUTDOWN: vga console has shut down.
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > Maybe there's something still not emulated...
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > fausto
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > Quoting Camiel Vanderhoeven <iam...@gm...>:
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > > Yes, I forgot that, thanks!
>> >> >> >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > > Camiel.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > > On Feb 16, 2008 5:42 PM, brian wheeler
>> >> >> >> <bdw...@in...> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> Oh, and this one too:
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> Index: Configurator.cpp
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >>
>> ===============================================================
>> >> >> >> ====
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> RCS file: /cvsroot/es40/es40/src/Configurator.cpp,v
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> retrieving revision 1.14 diff -u -r1.14
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> Configurator.cpp
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> --- Configurator.cpp 16 Feb 2008
>> 13:00:15 -0000 1.14
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> +++ Configurator.cpp 16 Feb 2008 16:41:55 -0000
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> @@ -518,6 +518,7 @@
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> {"cirrus", c_cirrus, IS_PCI |
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> ON_GUI },
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> {"dec21143",c_dec21143, IS_PCI |
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> IS_NIC },
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> {"sym53c895", c_sym53c895, IS_PCI |
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> HAS_DISK },
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> + {"sym53c810", c_sym53c810, IS_PCI |
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> HAS_DISK },
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> {"file", c_file,
>> >> >> >> IS_DISK
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> },
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> {"device", c_device,
>> >> >> >> IS_DISK
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> },
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> {"ramdisk", c_ramdisk,
>> >> >> >> IS_DISK
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> },
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> On Sat, 2008-02-16 at 14:19 +0100, Camiel
>> >> Vanderhoeven wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > Hi Again,
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > I haven't been able to get my hands on a
>> KZPCA yet,
>> >> >> >> (some of you had
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > suggestions who to ask, I'm pursuing those leads
>> >> >> now) but in the
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > meantime, I took a good look at the
>> KZPAA card I do
>> >> >> have. It's a
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > 53C810-based card, which is fairly similar to the
>> >> >> >> 53C895. The good
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > news is that this card does not have any
>> >> firmware. Due to the
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > similarities with the 53C895 it turned out to be
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > not that
>> >> >> >> > >> hard to come
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > up with a working emulation. I just successfully
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > booted
>> >> >> >> > >> OpenVMS off an
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > emulated SCSI disk.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > I've committed the new code to the CVS
>> repository.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > It
>> >> >> >> will also be in
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > the next release. You'll need to change
>> your config
>> >> >> >> file, replace
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > 53c895 with 53c810, and all scsi-disks
>> should be in
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > the
>> >> >> >> 0.0 - 0.6
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > range (sorry, no wide scsi on this card).
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > Camiel.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > On Feb 15, 2008 11:54 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven
>> >> >> >> > >> <iam...@gm...> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > Hello everyone,
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > First, a piece of good news: Eduardo Marcello
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > Serrat
>> >> >> >> has found the
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > cause of the bugcheck in the SCSI driver. That
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > means
>> >> >> >> we're getting
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > closer to working SCSI disks on the emulator
>> >> >> running OpenVMS.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > Now the bad news, to complete the emulation of
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > the SCSI
>> >> >> >> > >> card, we need
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > an image of the firmware ROM on a true DEC
>> >> 3X-KZPCA-AA SCSI
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > controller.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > If I could get my hands on a real 3X-KZPCA-AA
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > card, I
>> >> >> >> > >> could probably
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > manage to extract the contents of the ROM to
>> >> >> create an image.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > If any of you happen to have one of
>> these cards,
>> >> >> >> could you let me
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > know? They are identifyable by the main chip,
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > which
>> >> >> >> is either "NCR
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > 53C985", "LSI Logic 53C895" or
>> "Symbios 53C895".
>> >> >> >> There are also
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > versions of this card that won't work with
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > OpenVMS,
>> >> >> >> so please check
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > that first. If you have this card, it would be
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > very
>> >> >> >> useful if you
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > could create an image of the PCI
>> option ROM, or
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > if you'd
>> >> >> >> > >> be willing to
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > part with the card (for a while) so I
>> can extract
>> >> >> the image.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > Thanks,
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > Camiel.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > P.S. Apologies to those who receive this e-mail
>> >> >> >> twice, but I found
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > this important enough to send to both the
>> >> >> developers and the
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > > announcements list.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----
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>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > /01/
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > Es4...@li...
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developers
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by:
>> Microsoft Defy all
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/0
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> 1/ _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> Es4...@li...
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-dev
>> >> >> >> > >> > >> elopers
>> >> >> >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----
>> >> >> >> > >> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by:
>> Microsoft Defy all
>> >> >> >> > >> > > challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> >> >> > >> > >
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01
>> >> >> >> > >> > > / _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > >> > > Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> >> >> > >> > > Es4...@li...
>> >> >> >> > >> > >
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-deve
>> >> >> >> > >> > > lopers
>> >> >> >> > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----
>> >> >> >> > >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all
>> >> >> >> > >> > challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > >> > Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> >> >> > >> > Es4...@li...
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-develo
>> >> >> >> > >> > pers
>> >> >> >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >>
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----
>> >> >> >> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all
>> >> >> >> > > challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> >> >> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > > Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> >> >> > > Es4...@li...
>> >> >> >> > >
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developer
>> >> >> >> > > s
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> -------
>> >> >> >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all
>> >> >> >> > challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> >> >> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> >> >> > Es4...@li...
>> >> >> >> >
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developers
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----
>> >> >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all
>> >> >> > challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> >> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> >> > Es4...@li...
>> >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developers
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> ------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all
>> >> >> challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> >> Es4...@li...
>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developers
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > ------ This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all
>> >> > challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> > Es4...@li...
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developers
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ---- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all
>> >> challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Es40-developers mailing list
>> >> Es4...@li...
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developers
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all
>> challenges.
>> > Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > Es4...@li...
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developers
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> Es4...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/es40-developers
>>
>
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