Re: [Envolution-devel] I resigne from envolution

[<Chr...@t-...>]

No, no, it's to less! I'm writing this, because I don't want to get this
desaster bigger. Please read more... 

Am Mon, 2003-08-04 um 19.10 Scott Kindley wrote in reply to gagl:
> We learned from the meetig on Aug 2 that our membership wants written
> guidelines and rules to prevent this kind of stuff from happening again.
I have read that log completly and what is called "our membership or
"our community" has been about 8, maybe all in all 10 people over 3 or 3
1/2 hours, but never more than 4 or five people at a time at least and
mostly 3 people who claimed "Organization of the Internation Support
Sites" in the last half hour.

For me and others this happened all to fast. I have been just 7 days in
hollidays and on Sunday morning a thought a horse is kicking my head.
(Beside, most european countries are having holliday now).

> Had those guidleines and rule been written and published on the website
> then finding them and understandiong them would have been very easy and
> a lot of this mess could have been avoided.

Or it could has been experienced, by following and understanding our
confidence, which can been seen in this mailinglists archiv. For
example, Zoom, You will remember, when I stopped activly a starting
flame between somebody and You... (doesn't matter here who, You will
remember or find it), which has had its origin on eNvo.de.I respected
You as a founder, do You remember?

The following of Your passages I will not citate. But in short:

We shouldn't start to separate people by who has confidence or not,
selfunderstanding language, nationality etc. We have to respect it!
Right?!

> No PM is the center of Envolution! Thats a fact! The center of
> Envolution is it's entire community not just one person.
And the communities center IS the PM in order of the founder board, so
easy :)

> >  We call it coordination and organization if needed: that's what a PM
> > has to do. 
> 
> Yes thats right...and that is what ApathyBoy is trying to do.
Not personal, the difficulty is, that it looks to most people I know,
like an overtaking. Sorry for that, but now only very well understood
diplomacy can track the cow from ice, as we call it in germany.;)

> I am sure your statistic are quite active. But envo.it is only part of
> the whole...not the whole itself. And as such no single part of the
> community should dictate to the rest what happens.
Never I have had the feeling, that eNvo.it dictates or trys to dictate
the rest. No diplomatic words of wisdom!

> Respect was not demonstrated to ApathyBoy in the first days of this
> change. If a community wants to talk about respect they need to be
> prepared to start showing it as well.
> 
> Some members of envo.it are on a campaign to slander ApathyBoy by
> calling him a Nazi and one individual called him Hitler. While you may
> think this is proper lanaguage in your culture you seem to have
> forgotten that your culture is not the only one out there. In most
> societies calling someone a Nazi or Hilter is unforgivable.
I'm from Germany, ok?! And this foolish propaganda, which is coming up
inflationaryly is in no way acceptable for any society and any human
beeing. And we shouldn't use this expression to close with any eNvo
domain or support site or what else. (Just a few words praying for
diplomatic wisdom ;) )

> > This until last week: we expected the new PM would first see how
> > things work (because Apatyboy has no idea about how envolution works
> > and he showed it with his behaviour), then speak with everybody, and
> > then programming the future.
Wouldn't it have been better, he would have been seen it before? Why You
didn't make a temporary solution for Max designation?

> First of all ApathyBoy knows exactly how evnolution works. He was a
> primary developer of Envoulution from the beginning. And in fact was at
> one time jjst prior to Max becoming the PM being considered by all of us
> to be the lead developer back then! Since I created the election process
> and Max, Brian, and Brandon approved of it I no what I am talking about.
Ok, no doubt, I don't no anything about that, I believe it. But we
stated in our vision and road map
http://www.envolution.com/index.php?module=subjects&func=listpages&subid=2, which I translated two weeks ago to german, that eNvolution (You see how I write eNvolution?) is not only development, but community. To know eNvo, You have to know the community. This is an externals fate. Ask just 2000 registered eNvo users who is Apathyboy, how many would know?! eNvolution is not only development, FLQDs URL's, IP's, design etc. It's important, but without community it's nothing better than known other systems. I'm absolutly shure, that community is the hardest job of all to get to work. A primary developer is a primary developer, but that doesn't mean, that he would be a primary project leader also, if he has no envolved capabilities in interacting with living humans. Maybe Apathyboy has, I don't know him, but then these capabilities should be used 120% immidiatly.

> What you and your constituants do is your business. But Envolution is
> official only when it is open to peer review and public viewing. That
> will never change and is not negotiable.
So You shouldn't start closed, rapid politics also, so easy!

> When hotility ceases I may visit envolution.it. But as long as all this
> talk of Nazi's and Hitler remains envolution.it will not be recognized
> officially as an Envolution CMS resource. I will find a replacement
> Italaian support site in needed. 
Tss, tss, tss...

> Freedom doesn't mean there isn't guidelies. I get the impression you
> want the ability to do whatever you want, whenever you want and call it
> official Envolution business. That will never work. There has to be
> guidelines and all community memebrs were invited to the meeting on Aug
> 2 to give their inout...if you decided not to come then you have no
> right to complain about it now.
Is that Your definite truth? I consider not to start with such words. 

Again, i.e. me, I didn't have had a minimum chance to take part in that
meeting. Others I know also.
> > Best regards,
> > Angelo Gagliani
> > staff envolution.it
from gatoNero, eNvolution.de also

PS:: Remember, that all my lines are meant constructive!