Re: [Envolution-devel] I resigne from envolution

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 10:13, gagl wrote:
> Hi, I'm capretta:
>  I was doc manger before, 

And you still are if you want to be doc manager.

> I'm in staff of envolution.it  and was working on the eNDP (eNvolution
> Documentation Project): maybe the new MP and all the new 4 developers
> (nothing personal....) and alive-again founders don't know, but Zoom
> knows how things went in this year and what has been stated and
> created. 
> You maybe ask what's going on now with all "TiMax followers" as
> someone wrote on this ML....
> Ok, many things changed, and you new staff seem to be the only that
> doesn't understand: maybe if you read ML of the last year you would
> understand more how we were organized, not always by written rules:

We learned from the meetig on Aug 2 that our membership wants written
guidelines and rules to prevent this kind of stuff from happening again.

Had those guidleines and rule been written and published on the website
then finding them and understandiong them would have been very easy and
a lot of this mess could have been avoided.

>  
> THIS COMUNITY WORKED AND GROWED AND WAS RULED MOSTLY BY CONFIDENCE.

Still does! Just because some people don't have that confidence doesn't
mean all members of the community don't have it.

If you gave it a fair chance to get started in the first place with the
new PM and domain transfers then I suspect that most of these problems
could have been minimized as well.

>  And this politics, the best one in Open source voluntary projects,
> worked fine: because we had a PM that left us free to create and
> develop on little projects, made by groups, with personal contacts,
> other ML, with all tools we needed, but we had ALWAYS support,
> reliance and respect on and by our MP.

No freedons have been removed from anyone!

>  Evreything was reported to him, who was the center of all single
> projects.

No PM is the center of Envolution! Thats a fact! The center of
Envolution is it's entire community not just one person.

>  We call it coordination and organization if needed: that's what a PM
> has to do. 

Yes thats right...and that is what ApathyBoy is trying to do.

> Nearly 12000 users, have you seen our Forums on envo.it?

I am sure your statistic are quite active. But envo.it is only part of
the whole...not the whole itself. And as such no single part of the
community should dictate to the rest what happens.

>  our Statistics? All the users asked, helped in making better this
> CMS: they feel it, and had confidence in us, and we had in them. The
> staff tried then to satisfy these needs of the users, and
> spontaneously things were developed and bugs fixed: that's a comunity,
> based on confidence and respect. 

Respect was not demonstrated to ApathyBoy in the first days of this
change. If a community wants to talk about respect they need to be
prepared to start showing it as well.

Some members of envo.it are on a campaign to slander ApathyBoy by
calling him a Nazi and one individual called him Hitler. While you may
think this is proper lanaguage in your culture you seem to have
forgotten that your culture is not the only one out there. In most
societies calling someone a Nazi or Hilter is unforgivable.

> This until last week: we expected the new PM would first see how
> things work (because Apatyboy has no idea about how envolution works
> and he showed it with his behaviour), then speak with everybody, and
> then programming the future.

First of all ApathyBoy knows exactly how evnolution works. He was a
primary developer of Envoulution from the beginning. And in fact was at
one time jjst prior to Max becoming the PM being considered by all of us
to be the lead developer back then! Since I created the election process
and Max, Brian, and Brandon approved of it I no what I am talking about.

>  
> He managed only, until now, to make a nonsense vision, that we, from
> the italian support side, haven't translated, because it cracks the
> promises and the expectations of the 12000 users we have, thinking:
> maybe he stepped on a bullshit, how we say in italy. Then the rest
> went how nobody of us expected: 

The published vision was followed by ApathyBoy. No other vision exists.
Ive asked for someone to provide it over and over again so we can review
it...but no one seems to have any clue where this vision resides.

> Maybe you don't know, but we all continue to use these not appropriate
> channels to comunicate: other ML, mails, chats, there is an uprisal
> not only from some staff members, but much more from the users against
> new politics of the new leaders and staff.

What you and your constituants do is your business. But Envolution is
official only when it is open to peer review and public viewing. That
will never change and is not negotiable.

>  See it on the local sites, come to visit please envolution.it,
> comments, forums, users and staff members that compromise themeselves
> with their companies to follow envolution project, in confidence,
> believed in  it, and now see unknown names making rules in an
> afternoon on saturday on august between them, 4-5 new staff men. 
> Is it not a signal for you all, and much more for you, Zoom, you're in
> it since some months, that some supports left, other are discussing to
> leave, developers banned, other censored...... has it never happened
> before? OK, maybe we are all foolish and childish: but you, is your
> coscience clear? Let's then make a saint of you.....

When hotility ceases I may visit envolution.it. But as long as all this
talk of Nazi's and Hitler remains envolution.it will not be recognized
officially as an Envolution CMS resource. I will find a replacement
Italaian support site in needed. 

> I work on open source because i like to do it with people, with whom I
> work fine and in confidence ( this word is the reason of all
> happened): so all of us spent their free time on this project, between
> friends: I don't remember a flame between staff members nor
> resignments on envolution.....Now I don't have this feeling: I don't
> want to work under the command of unknown people, I don't do this
> neither in my private job....you decide new rules about ENISS (you all
> know what it is?) without hearing who was working on it, only after a
> meeting between you 4-5 new team.....don't be surprised if people
> called you dispotic....that's not the way to handle and coordinate a
> comunity that is used to work in freedom and CONFIDENCE.

Freedom doesn't mean there isn't guidelies. I get the impression you
want the ability to do whatever you want, whenever you want and call it
official Envolution business. That will never work. There has to be
guidelines and all community memebrs were invited to the meeting on Aug
2 to give their inout...if you decided not to come then you have no
right to complain about it now.

> I don't want to start flames with nobody, this mail is only another
> trying to make you understand why this all is happening, but maybe
> Zoom, the laywer, will find an offensive word or statement in this
> mail and build all the defence on that single word and not on the
> sense of discussion....we hoped at least on you, who knows how envo
> works, but you seemed to be elsewhere.....
> This is my resignment from doc manger, but I think, you decided it
> before, since you cancelled all positions from the site....
> But I will continue in envolution.it staff, with the other staff and
> the thousands of members, in harmony and CONFIDENCE.
> Best regards,
> Angelo Gagliani
> staff envolution.it

I respect your decision even though I believe it was made in error.

Zoom