[Envolution-devel] [Re: Hosting questions]

[Sascha E. <me...@sa...>]

Hi,

I am Sascha Endlicher of http://www.ezoshosting.com, not ezhosting.com.
It's the little details that you try to use to make a point, but they
are just not right.
Two statements on two different issues.

a) We turned away a potential customer a few days ago who was asking
about hosting a large Envolution based website. Large as in "terms of
server load it would have caused". If by those descriptions the site
would have been a PostNuke site or a PHPNuke site the customer would
have gotten the same answer. Same thing for Xaraya.

Envolution, PostNuke and PHPNuke are great tools to administer a
website, but they currently "have a lot of room for improvement" when it
comes to heavy traffic sites. Notice that the customer did not ask about
PostNuke hosting. I can tell you about people who are just as desperate
because they can't find cheap PostNuke hosting with their 30 000plus
visitors a day sites. We are honest enough to say that we won't host
them, other hosts take their money and shut them down.

Xaraya has the potential to become a great tool, but at present it
isn't. I personally believe the laid out blocklayout is excellent and it
is great to work with, because I personally come from an XML / XSLT
background, but Xaraya has other bugs that make it impossible to use it
on production sites yet. Plus, the number of SQL calls it currently
generates are horrible. It is what I call a "server killer".

So, don't make this a "he is with Xaraya" thing.

You might not know that, but we had actually advertised hosting for
Envolution on google and Overture in the past, shortly after the
Envolution fork, but there was not much interest by surfers and
potential clients.
People want PostNuke like crazy, although I see a lot of bad things
about PostNuke, one of them is the fact that it makes a bad use of
system resources.

Have you ever tried to host a site with 30 000 unique visitors an hour
running PostNuke in a virtual hosting environment?
We tried and failed. The next time he had that many visitors we put him
on a dedicated server for free. We didn't end up loosing the customer,
but he switched to Virtuanews, which uses really good caching.

Postnuke even gets cranky at 30 000+ visitors a day and you can't make a
profit with it, not with our cheap prices at least.
When Kevin Mitnick was free to use the internet again and his
girlfriend's website, who is hosted with us, got mentioned on several TV
stations within a few hours, she had 30 000 visitors per hour and the
server load was not an issue at all. She used Movable Type. Movable Type
generated static HTML pages that are only updated and regenerated when
someone posts a comment.
This is what I call excellent in terms of server load! Plus, you can
burn the HTML pages on a CD. That's another killer feature for Content
Management IMHO.

b) Scott Kindley asked in an email if he could host some envolution
sites with us. He could have asked for static html page hosting, and he
would have had the same reply.
I don't personally like him, but I saw no need to tell him that again. I
just answered 
"Scott,

I am sorry, but we will not host your sites.

Sincerely
Sascha Endlicher
http://www.ezoshosting.com/
"

Do I have bad feelings towards Envolution?
No, not at all. I am more than willing to even extend the "we sponsor
active postnuke developers" offer to "we sponsor active Envolution
developers".

Do I have issues with Scott Kindley? Yes, I do.
If Scott Kindley wants to make my personal dislike a dislike against
Envolution, he will fail.
Scott Kindley is not the Envolution project I believe, and my lengthy
examples should have cleared up this matter.

Sincerely
Sascha Endlicher
http://www.ezoshosting.com/

> Envolution developers and community members,
> 
> This email is directed to the envolution-dev list and is CC'd to
Sascha
> Endlicher. 
> 
> Below is a message forwarded to not only this list but Sascha
Endlicher
> of www.ezhoshosting.com. Sascha is a former postnuke developer who was
> closly aligned with John Cox and Gregor Rothfuss back when Envolution
> forked from PostNuke. It would be a fair assumption that Sascha and
the
> other John Cox supporters have bad feelings toward Envolution and me
in
> particular. This is why Sascha refused to host Envolution websites at
> his company..NOT because of poor code or factually based technical
> issues. Read on for explaination please.
> 
> One of our community members was told by this company that they will
not
> host Envolution websites like they will for Postnuke, Xoops, Xaraya,
or
> PHP-Nuke. Instead they claim an Envolution website would have to done
on
> a dedicated server. I wonder if they say this as a way to dishonestly
> encourage people to abandon Envolution or worse, to trick people into
> paying for something they don't need. As you can see from the quote I
> included below from one of our community members (JFK)
exzoshosting.com
> is telling people that Envolution is poorly programmed software.
> 
> I encourage all Envolution users to make informed decisions on their
> choice for a CMS. They should use a tool that meets or exceeds their
> needs. True also is the same process for choosing a web host providor.
> Obviously Sascha Endlicher and his company ezoshosting.com do not want
> business from Envolution users. 
> 
> Sascha and his company can certainly choose to do business with
whoever
> they want..I have no problem with that. What I do have a huge problem
> with is the misrepresentation of facts to people who are using
> Envolution by Sascha and his company. This type of collusion is
> troublesome to me and I feel should be troublesome to other CMS
projects
> like Xoops, PHP-Nuke, etc.
> 
> I am looking for information and advice on how we as a community can
> leverage our collective voices and show companies like this that we do
> not wish to be discriminated against because of our choice to use the
> Envolution CMS. Should we simply ignore them? Should we publicly voice
> our opinions about this? Should we simply boycott them? Perhaps you
have
> some other clever ideas on how to demonstrate our displeasure with
this
> company's FUD.
> 
> Zoom
> 
> On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 00:20, Sascha Endlicher wrote:
> > Scott,
> > 
> > I am sorry, but we will not host your sites.
> > 
> > Sincerely
> > Sascha Endlicher
> > http://www.ezoshosting.com/
> > 
> > > I am inquiring about hosting a website with your company. I use
CMS software called Envolution which is similar to Postnuke. Can I get
it preinstalled or would I have to install it myself?
> 
> Thanks for the reply Sascha.
> 
> I must admit I am really not looking for a host. I was really probing
to
> find out what your beef with Envolution is since one of our community
> members posted this quote to our forums at envolution.com:
> 
> <quote>
> "while I would certainly like to help you, I am afraid we can't help
you
> with your site. It has outgrown the needs of a virtual webhosting site
> and would need to be placed on a dedicated server. 
> The problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or
the 
> bandwidth. Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many
server
> resources. Unfortunately it also doesn't use any intelligent caching
> techniques. As an example: We could host approximately 50 to 100 times
> more HTML based sites than your site at the same bandwidth."
> </quote>
> 
> That same member has forwarded email to me concerning this matter as
> well.
> 
> Since I had not ever heard of ezoshosting.com I thought it prudent to
> see what you would say to someone who inquired about hosting an
> Envolution website since ezoshosting.com publicly advertises postnuke,
> xoops and others.
> 
> Now that I know it is you behind the FUD spreading I can inform our
> community that the real reason you won't host envolution websites is
> because of politics instead of technical reasons.
> 
> I'm sure that once the truth is known why ezoshosting.com refuses to
do
> business with Envolution users and adopters, our community members who
> need hosting services can make informed decisions about who they wish
to
> do business with...and who will refuse to do business with them!
> 
> In closing I wish to inform you that your remarks about Envolution
being
> "poorly programmed" is pure bullshit. In fact it is based on Postnuke
> code which you yourself contributed to! Benchmarks that were faked by
> your peers back in the days preceeding Envolution clearly show that
> Encompass (the poor code you obviously refer to) performed superior to
> postnuke. It also does contain caching code..had you looked at the
code
> you would've known that. Lying to public inqueries for your services
by
> telling people that Envolution is "poorly programmed" is a real cheap,
> factually baseless shot...I would expect that from Gregor or Cox, but
> not from a busieness. It shouldn't matter to you what software a
> customer uses. It just reinforces how right we were to fork from
> Postnuke.
> 
> The next version of Postnuke will contain a significant portion of
code
> that originated with Envolution developers and was central to the big
> political debate which caused you and the other Cox followers to leave
> postnuke development. Once Postnuke .8 releases with Encompass
> originated code (the Xanthia theme system is a fork of Encompass) are
> you going to stop hosting Postnuke sites as well? I imagine it chaps
> your ass to know that Envolution developers have had such an influence
> on nuke type CMS's like Postnuke.
> 
> Thanks again for replying to me directly Sascha..it makes the task of
> rebutting your inaccurate claims that Envolution is "poorly
programmed"
> to the Envolution communty so much easier. I'll also let the XOOP's,
> PHP-Nuke, and current PostNuke communities know that it is possible to
> get "locked" out of services they may be interested in by your company
> simply because of the CMS they choose to use. Who knows maybe one day
> you'll start telling prospective clients to stop using Xoop's because
> you don't like Xoop's programmers or something.
> 
> Scott Kindley
> Zoom
> 
>