From: <Chr...@t-...> - 2003-07-06 20:28:25
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Please stop this flaming: I started with a call for help and I got it. It wasn't my intention to import german flaming here. eNvolution is open-source and exactly in that moment, when it wouldn't be no more open-source, I would stop immediatly my engagement. I got very much efforts the last year from open-source, that I want to give somethimng back and promote the open-source ideas against propritary solutions. For me it's a question of moral and informational freedom. Zoom is a founder and will be a founder. He did or does some experiments with other ideas, why not? I can't remember that anybody has been disagreed with his excurs. His experiences can't be nothing else than good for us. We need some organisation, but it's no question of hirarchy, but a question of functionalaty. It should be as flat and powerfull as possible. Am Son, 2003-07-06 um 21.42 schrieb Denver Prophit Jr.: > There you go long windily hijacking my words again to suite your need. > Never was about ME. You left the project your no longer any kinda > nothing except a contributor. Sorry your power hold is gone. Max leads > things now. > > Do I care about that old idea of a 501-C3 now? Not really. I'm happy > doing what I do now in my efforts. I can still already see you > referring back to yourself as a founder and throwing your weight around > as usual. Well you abandoned it because we would not go to object > oriented programming like you wanted. Your project failed so I guess > you come back trying to usurp the authority you once had. > > That's my only beef. Stop trying to play king of the hill and play > nicely in the sandbox with the rest of us. Sorry my facts were not 100% > bullet-proof. We all know how you like to Parle with words. > > "..happy elsewhere" sorry I'm not going anywhere nice try. > > I'll ignore any other replies to this thread as I'm already unhappy I > started it but if I had to express my feelings anywhere...here would be > the best place away from the community forums. > > -----Original Message----- > From: env...@li... > [mailto:env...@li...] On Behalf Of Scott > Kindley > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 2:14 PM > To: Evolution-Dev-List > Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] Power Mongers > > On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 13:06, Denver Prophit Jr. wrote: > > I stopped showing up because you were running everything. Wrong the > > idea of a organization structure was NOT to dictate to the community > but > > to be in a better position to handle the community and its direction, > > ideas and inputs. > > > > And since your idea wasn't the one consensus agreed upon everyone else > is a "power monger"? Is that what you are suggesting Denver? Sounds like > a case of sour grapes you have there. > > Let me tell you about organization. This organization has a structure > already. It just wasn't the one you wanted. Instead of having a tall > hierarchial structure it remains relativly flat...which is what Brian > wanted as well. It doesn't require some IRS Tax designation in order to > be a valid organization. > > > I suggested the 501-3C to Brian for funding non-profit projects like > > promotion, paid programmers and the like. I NEVER suggested a company > > for profit. > > If you are looking for a 501-3c then I would suggest you look into > supporting the Free Software Foundation or the Opensoftware Development > Consortium. They are already in place. They already do what you suggest > (which I will assume is your underlying motive). It doesn't mean every > opensource project has to organize for the sake of pecuniary measures! > And forming yet another non-profit entity is simply unneeded and > redunadant. > > I'll take it one step further Denver. This project was NOT founded upon > money issues. I will repeat this again since you don't seem to grasp the > concept. This is a volunteer free/open source project...NOT a charitable > organization who funds anyone!!!!! Furthermore, this community is an > international network of people from all different backgrounds and > cultures as well as nations. This means that U.S. 501-3c status means > diddly squat in Asia, Europe, and most other countries. So in addition > to being redundant, 501-3c wouldn't be practical. > > Envolution doesn't require some IRS Tax designation in order to be a > valid organization. > > > But here we are again back to calling for organization when > > this could have been done a year ago. > > NO. This is not what is happening. We are simply calling for better > communication. Nice try in trying to hijack the context of my original > reply that prompted this thread. > > > Why would I say you took almost > > total control and usurped everyone else's job? Because myself and > > others who confided in me told me so. > > Well let's let results speak for themselves cause I surely doubt you can > speak for these so called others. FACT ONE: This community is growing. > FACT TWO: This community is stable. FACT THREE: Nobody here works "for" > envolution so no body here has a "JOB", as you put it, to be usurped! > Where and who are those others? Let them speak for themselves! > > > After it was decided not to go > > the route of a organization structure but stick to your idea of a > > programmers structure I was asked to promote and market by Brian. > > Promotion and marketing is not exclusive to your "structured > organization". Envolution is almost at 10,000 members by promotion and > marketing on an informal level....all since August of 2002. I'd say your > arguments are without merit and instead based upon Xaraya like values. > If you want 501-3c status then I suggest you go join Xaraya and the DDF, > just be sure to assign copyright to any of your work you contribute over > to the DDF so THEY can control what happens with your code. That's the > kind of structure you sound like you are advocating. > > > Yet, > > everyday no tasks were assign to me and you went ahead in your > capacity > > as lead programmer and take over marketing and promotion and > everything > > else under the sun. > > Hummm. First of all, as Max can attest, ole Zoom was never the lead > programmer. And considering we grew from 4 initial people to almost the > 10,000 people registered today I can safely say WE (not I) did something > right. > > I am no longer in the day to day management of Envolution Denver. But I > am still a founding member of this project and I have been correct way > more than I have ever been wrong in my judgments about how a project > such as this should be run. > > As Max will explain to you Brian, Brandon, and I did not give up our > interests in Envolution as a project. So you can bank on this...As long > as ole Zoom is around I will not allow this project to become like > Xaraya or the DDF. > > So here is the bottom line Denver.If you have such a problem with > Envoluton or the way Max, Brian, Brandon, and I founded it..including > the underlying values, then why don't you find a place where you would > feel more comfortable? > > This community is not about you...it's not even about me, Max, Brandon, > or Brian. It is about free/open software development on an international > level. > > It is working, it is growing, and it is NOT a US IRS legal entity which > does nothing but collect money and fund people IT thinks deserves it. > Besides that, go tell all of our international support sites that they > will have to abide by US Tax law in order to be part of the Envoltuion > international network. I'm sure they will quickly let you know how they > feel about that. > > In closing let me remind you that Brian, as you refer to so often, is > NOT the leader of Envolution. Four people, of which I am one founded it > are the ultimate artibrators in a dispute. Co-Founder Tiraboschi > Massimiliano is the project leader as agreed upon by the four founding > members after the public elections failed to produce anyone interested > in running the project. > > Envolution always has been, and will continue to be, free for all > people. It will not be privatized or commercialized. And in difference > to your opinion about being a 501-3c entity under US IRS Tax Law does > not mean it is NOT a business. A non-profit entity can and often is a > business. > > It won't work here Denver, and suspect you would be happier elsewhere. > > Zoom > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100006ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Envolution-devel mailing list > Env...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100006ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Envolution-devel mailing list > Env...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel -- Christoph Schwaeppe mailto:chr...@t-... |