envolution-devel

[Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[TiMax <ma...@em...>]

I have just submit it in envolution.com, please to publish this news in home=
 page, thanks 

---------------------------------------------

eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

Having see last developments and not sharing the behaviours imposed by new=
 leadership of eNvolution, the Staff of eNvolution.it has decided to resign=
 immediatly from eNvolution's official support.
 
Nevertheless, eNvolution.it will continue to be the support site for entire=
 italian community, now ore than 12000 members, in autonomous way and=
 indipentend from the official eNvolution Network. 

eNvolution.it Staff

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[TiMax <ma...@em...>]

Thanks for your respect my request and to not have add my news in home=
 page.

TiMax

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:31:13 -0400, TiMax wrote:
>=A0 =A0I have just submit it in envolution.com, please to publish this news in=
 home page, thanks
>
>=A0 =A0---------------------------------------------
>
>=A0 =A0eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support
>
>=A0 =A0Having see last developments and not sharing the behaviours imposed by=
 new leadership of eNvolution, the Staff of eNvolution.it has decided to=
 resign immediatly from eNvolution's official support.
>
>=A0 =A0Nevertheless, eNvolution.it will continue to be the support site for=
 entire italian community, now ore than 12000 members, in autonomous way and=
 indipentend from the official eNvolution Network.
>
>=A0 =A0eNvolution.it Staff
>
>
>=A0 =A0-------------------------------------------------------
>=A0 =A0This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
>=A0 =A0Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
>=A0 =A0Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>=A0=
 =A0http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/0=
1
>=A0 =A0_______________________________________________
>=A0 =A0Envolution-devel mailing list
>=A0 =A0E...@li...
>=A0 =A0https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>
>=A0 =A0__________ NOD32 1.473 (20030801) Information __________
>
>=A0 =A0This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System.
>=A0 =A0http://www.nod32.com

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 07:57, TiMax wrote:
> Thanks for your respect my request and to not have add my news in home page.
> 
> TiMax
> 
Your post was published. 

The content of your post does not further Envolution development so it
does not belong on the front page.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[tinta <ti...@au...>]

> The content of your post does not further Envolution development so it
> does not belong on the front page


In my opinion the TiMax's post does still is Envolution development because 
the Italian Community has done a lot for the project. The disclaiming of 
italian team will surely flow on the Envolution development and could really 
make it slower.

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 09:37, tinta wrote:
> > The content of your post does not further Envolution development so it
> > does not belong on the front page
> 
> 
> In my opinion the TiMax's post does still is Envolution development because 
> the Italian Community has done a lot for the project. The disclaiming of 
> italian team will surely flow on the Envolution development and could really 
> make it slower.
> 

Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated with
Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
relevant to Envolution code and development other than his information
of resignation which was posted.

Now move on.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[TiMax <ma...@em...>]

On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote:
>=A0 =A0Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
>=A0 =A0official Envolution support.

Only a little correction  I resigned from eNvolution but  eNvolution.it=
 Staff resigned envolution.it site from official envolution support  and not=
 Max, i only send news and mail

Max

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Sjahrazad A. <sja...@ba...>]

On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> [...]
> Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
> official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated with
> Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
> relevant to Envolution code and development other than his 
> information of resignation which was posted.
> 
> Now move on.
> 
> Zoom [...]

I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read my email 
Suggestions, you will know that.

TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the right as 
founder same with the other founders. If he choose not involve in 
development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder. So you don't have any 
right to remove him from any membership in envolution.

I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know that I'm 
supporting Eric Barr as new PM. 

But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made a mis-
leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect human, we are 
all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have to show to the 
community that you consider all the community complaint, want to hear the 
community, respect to their opinion and want to find a solution not a war.

As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while arguing and 
always create a flame war, even what your're saying was right.

Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take over all 
arguing, here in this list or envo site.

As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step back, and 
let him manage the community!

Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing personal 
attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start racism here Zoom in 
this community. If there is one Italian say a bad word to Eric, then Eric 
should answer him not you. Also one Italian are not the same with others 
Italian community. Banned and disconnected with existing Italian envo 
community, is a failure!

Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting respond for 
my suggestions.

Best regards,
sjah

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Eric B. <apa...@xe...>]

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:39:08 -0500, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
>> [...]
>> Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it
>> from official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer
>> associated with Envolution. This was his choice and his decision.
>> So no it is not relevant to Envolution code and development other
>> than his information of resignation which was posted.
>>
>> Now move on.
>>
>>
>> Zoom [...]
>>
>
> I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read
> my email Suggestions, you will know that.
>
> TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the
> right as founder same with the other founders. If he choose not
> involve in development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder.
> So you don't have any right to remove him from any membership in
> envolution.
>
> I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know
> that I'm supporting Eric Barr as new PM.
>
> But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made
> a mis- leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect
> human, we are all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have
> to show to the community that you consider all the community
> complaint, want to hear the community, respect to their opinion and
> want to find a solution not a war.
>
> As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while
> arguing and always create a flame war, even what your're saying was
> right.
>
> Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take
> over all arguing, here in this list or envo site.
>
> As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step
> back, and let him manage the community!
>
> Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing
> personal attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start
> racism here Zoom in this community. If there is one Italian say a
> bad word to Eric, then Eric should answer him not you. Also one
> Italian are not the same with others Italian community. Banned and
> disconnected with existing Italian envo community, is a failure!
>
> Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting
> respond for my suggestions.
>
> Best regards,
> sjah
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites
> including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are
> available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual
> Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-
> url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
> _______________________________________________ Envolution-devel
> mailing list Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

Sjah,
I have admitted before that I have made mistakes and have been trying to=
 clear 
these up, but I will do so again and hopefully this time people will know=
 that I 
mean it. People do make mistakes and I have tried to admit and take care of=
 them 
were possible. For example I also asked people with any questions comments=
 or 
concerns to please come forward and talk to me directly about them so that I=
 
could listen to their ideas and help to explain myself better. Some people=
 have 
done this and it has been appreciated. Most, however, have chosen to flame=
 these 
ml and several Envolution community websites before ever even talking to me.=
 At 
this point I'm not even sure how to approach these people to talk or make 
amends. That offer has certainly been on the table and is still on the table=
 for 
anyone to take advantage of, and I encourage them to use it. My email=
 address is 
eri...@en... so please email me if you have any problems so that=
 we 
can talk this out. If anyone has a better suggestion on how to go about this=
 
please email me as I really do wish to fix these things.

As far as the role Zoom is playing in envolution.com right now, he is trying=
 to 
support me in the best way he knows how. He may be a little rough around the=
 
edges but he loves this project and only wants the best for it. When it=
 comes 
down to it I'm glad that Zoom is here and helping me. The goal we are going=
 for 
right now is just to end the flaming. Once people stop flaming I would like=
 to 
begin open discussions in the community forums about everyone's ideas for=
 the 
project and find out what the people in the community want, but the flames=
 must 
stop! *this is not directed at any individual, just a general statement*

There is a new forum open in the community forums called Peace Room 
http://www.envolution.com/index.php?name=3DPNphpBB2&file=3Dindex&c=3D9. Anybody=
 that 
wishes to come there and talk openly about their ideas, concerns may do so.=
 
Anything will go in this room, it is a place for everybody to share their 
thoughts as openly as they want and I will be there to listen and learn. I=
 just 
ask that all of the flame stops here on the mailing list as well as on the 
website. I feel really bad for those people who did not want any part in the=
 
flaming and I am sad to see them go. I hope that maybe one day after all of=
 this 
is settled that they can come back and enjoy the open community atmosphere=
 they 
once had.

Thank you for your time,
 
Eric Barr
Project Manager :: E n v o l u t i o n

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 14:39, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> > [...]
> > Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
> > official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated with
> > Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
> > relevant to Envolution code and development other than his 
> > information of resignation which was posted.
> > 
> > Now move on.
> > 
> > Zoom [...]
> 
> I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read my email 
> Suggestions, you will know that.
> 
> TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the right as 
> founder same with the other founders. If he choose not involve in 
> development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder. So you don't have any 
> right to remove him from any membership in envolution.
> 

I understood that my decison to unsubscribe Max form the email list and
to deletre his account on envoution.com would be controversial. However
there ARE some things you do not know, that I havn't made public yet,
that break the agreement Max had with me and the other founders. Yes Max
wears the title of a co-founding member of Envolution and he will always
be a co-founding member. However when he broke that agreement between me
and the other founders he looses his claims to controlling the direction
Envolution goes. 

This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what he
did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.

I believe you also know a little something about what Max did, I just
don't believe you realize that it was part of an agreement the founders
had with each other.

> I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know that I'm 
> supporting Eric Barr as new PM. 
> 

Good. I have no issues with you either. I have even recommeded you to
people several times for themes and such.

> But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made a mis-
> leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect human, we are 
> all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have to show to the 
> community that you consider all the community complaint, want to hear the 
> community, respect to their opinion and want to find a solution not a war.
> 

I have considered every thing that was sent my way. I have explained my
intentions and my actions until I'm blue in the face. I've asked
repeatedly for calm and to stop the flames...but people still continue
to post very objectionable comments and complaign about things that are
not even true.

So when no one is litening I stop talking.

> As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while arguing and 
> always create a flame war, even what your're saying was right.
> 

Yes I have a temper. Everyone does. But mine is no more than anyone
elses. I have a reputation as being a hothead because I stand my ground
when I know I am right. That may be a fault and it may not be..thats a
judgement that each person makes for themsleves. I do not care if I am
popular...I am not here for a poularity contest. I am here for the sole
function of maintaining a pleasant and open development atmosphere. When
certain individuals come into the community and try desperatley to
tarnish Eric Barr's name by characterizing him as Hitler and Nazi I will
get angry and I will take action based on the Terms of Use. The same
Terms of Use that have been in effect since the very beginning. I Eric
were a member of the Nazi party then I wouldn't have any position to
take action...however he IS NOT...and NEV ER HAS BEEN. So characterizing
him as a mass murderer and as one of the most evil human beings who ever
walked the face of the earth is unacceptable, unforgivabel, and will not
be tolerate on Envolution Project Resources. That is not, and never will
be negotiable as there is no justification for it in any language or any
culture.


> Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take over all 
> arguing, here in this list or envo site.
> 

You are wrong.

> As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step back, and 
> let him manage the community!
> 

Man it takes nerve to say I am not letting him! It is me trying to
provide the chance for him to do it. You should stop transferring the
blame to me for Erics inability to start perfoming his position and
instead direct that statement toward the real people causing the
problem.

> Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing personal 
> attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start racism here Zoom in 
> this community. If there is one Italian say a bad word to Eric, then Eric 
> should answer him not you. Also one Italian are not the same with others 
> Italian community. Banned and disconnected with existing Italian envo 
> community, is a failure!
> 

I only banned 2 people so far. I have no idea about any Umberto.

> Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting respond for 
> my suggestions.
> 
> Best regards,
> sjah
> 

I'l be online in about an hour. We can chat then if your still
interested.

Zoom

[Envolution-devel] What was not good?

[<s.k...@pr...>]

Scott,
[...]
> This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
> brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what he
> did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
> AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.
[...]
Good was, what we have done last months with this that was NOT GOOD FOR THE
COMMUNITY in your eyes.
What rules had Max broken. It is not clear and you don't explained it.

Remember: eNvolution was on the way to become the most fabulous CMS.

But it is over now. Why you destroy this project only because you are not
able to see what is right and left.

I'm very angry about what happened. Nobody want it. Nobody need it.
Now you have to start nearly by zero. This was not necessary.

Sorry,
Stefan aka WindMeUp


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Kindley" <sc...@ki...>
To: "Evolution-Dev-List" <env...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo
officialsupport


> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 14:39, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> > On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> > > [...]
> > > Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
> > > official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated with
> > > Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
> > > relevant to Envolution code and development other than his
> > > information of resignation which was posted.
> > >
> > > Now move on.
> > >
> > > Zoom [...]
> >
> > I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read my
email
> > Suggestions, you will know that.
> >
> > TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the
right as
> > founder same with the other founders. If he choose not involve in
> > development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder. So you don't have
any
> > right to remove him from any membership in envolution.
> >
>
> I understood that my decison to unsubscribe Max form the email list and
> to deletre his account on envoution.com would be controversial. However
> there ARE some things you do not know, that I havn't made public yet,
> that break the agreement Max had with me and the other founders. Yes Max
> wears the title of a co-founding member of Envolution and he will always
> be a co-founding member. However when he broke that agreement between me
> and the other founders he looses his claims to controlling the direction
> Envolution goes.
>
> This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
> brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what he
> did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
> AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.
>
> I believe you also know a little something about what Max did, I just
> don't believe you realize that it was part of an agreement the founders
> had with each other.
>
> > I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know that
I'm
> > supporting Eric Barr as new PM.
> >
>
> Good. I have no issues with you either. I have even recommeded you to
> people several times for themes and such.
>
> > But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made a
mis-
> > leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect human, we
are
> > all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have to show to the
> > community that you consider all the community complaint, want to hear
the
> > community, respect to their opinion and want to find a solution not a
war.
> >
>
> I have considered every thing that was sent my way. I have explained my
> intentions and my actions until I'm blue in the face. I've asked
> repeatedly for calm and to stop the flames...but people still continue
> to post very objectionable comments and complaign about things that are
> not even true.
>
> So when no one is litening I stop talking.
>
> > As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while arguing
and
> > always create a flame war, even what your're saying was right.
> >
>
> Yes I have a temper. Everyone does. But mine is no more than anyone
> elses. I have a reputation as being a hothead because I stand my ground
> when I know I am right. That may be a fault and it may not be..thats a
> judgement that each person makes for themsleves. I do not care if I am
> popular...I am not here for a poularity contest. I am here for the sole
> function of maintaining a pleasant and open development atmosphere. When
> certain individuals come into the community and try desperatley to
> tarnish Eric Barr's name by characterizing him as Hitler and Nazi I will
> get angry and I will take action based on the Terms of Use. The same
> Terms of Use that have been in effect since the very beginning. I Eric
> were a member of the Nazi party then I wouldn't have any position to
> take action...however he IS NOT...and NEV ER HAS BEEN. So characterizing
> him as a mass murderer and as one of the most evil human beings who ever
> walked the face of the earth is unacceptable, unforgivabel, and will not
> be tolerate on Envolution Project Resources. That is not, and never will
> be negotiable as there is no justification for it in any language or any
> culture.
>
>
> > Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take over
all
> > arguing, here in this list or envo site.
> >
>
> You are wrong.
>
> > As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step back,
and
> > let him manage the community!
> >
>
> Man it takes nerve to say I am not letting him! It is me trying to
> provide the chance for him to do it. You should stop transferring the
> blame to me for Erics inability to start perfoming his position and
> instead direct that statement toward the real people causing the
> problem.
>
> > Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing personal
> > attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start racism here Zoom
in
> > this community. If there is one Italian say a bad word to Eric, then
Eric
> > should answer him not you. Also one Italian are not the same with others
> > Italian community. Banned and disconnected with existing Italian envo
> > community, is a failure!
> >
>
> I only banned 2 people so far. I have no idea about any Umberto.
>
> > Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting respond
for
> > my suggestions.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > sjah
> >
>
> I'l be online in about an hour. We can chat then if your still
> interested.
>
> Zoom
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>
http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
> _______________________________________________
> Envolution-devel mailing list
> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

Re: [Envolution-devel] What was not good?

[<Chr...@t-...>]

We will find our way, hopefully all together! Some may not be here, but
fabulous active, so what? Live is going on!

Christoph aka gatoNero
Staff eNvo.de

Am Mit, 2003-08-06 um 00.57 schrieb Stefan K=F6hler:
> Scott,
> [...]
> > This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
> > brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what h=
e
> > did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
> > AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.
> [...]
> Good was, what we have done last months with this that was NOT GOOD FOR T=
HE
> COMMUNITY in your eyes.
> What rules had Max broken. It is not clear and you don't explained it.
>=20
> Remember: eNvolution was on the way to become the most fabulous CMS.
>=20
> But it is over now. Why you destroy this project only because you are not
> able to see what is right and left.
>=20
> I'm very angry about what happened. Nobody want it. Nobody need it.
> Now you have to start nearly by zero. This was not necessary.
>=20
> Sorry,
> Stefan aka WindMeUp
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Kindley" <sc...@ki...>
> To: "Evolution-Dev-List" <env...@li...>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo
> officialsupport
>=20
>=20
> > On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 14:39, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> > > On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> > > > [...]
> > > > Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
> > > > official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated wi=
th
> > > > Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
> > > > relevant to Envolution code and development other than his
> > > > information of resignation which was posted.
> > > >
> > > > Now move on.
> > > >
> > > > Zoom [...]
> > >
> > > I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read my
> email
> > > Suggestions, you will know that.
> > >
> > > TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the
> right as
> > > founder same with the other founders. If he choose not involve in
> > > development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder. So you don't h=
ave
> any
> > > right to remove him from any membership in envolution.
> > >
> >
> > I understood that my decison to unsubscribe Max form the email list and
> > to deletre his account on envoution.com would be controversial. However
> > there ARE some things you do not know, that I havn't made public yet,
> > that break the agreement Max had with me and the other founders. Yes Ma=
x
> > wears the title of a co-founding member of Envolution and he will alway=
s
> > be a co-founding member. However when he broke that agreement between m=
e
> > and the other founders he looses his claims to controlling the directio=
n
> > Envolution goes.
> >
> > This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
> > brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what h=
e
> > did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
> > AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.
> >
> > I believe you also know a little something about what Max did, I just
> > don't believe you realize that it was part of an agreement the founders
> > had with each other.
> >
> > > I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know th=
at
> I'm
> > > supporting Eric Barr as new PM.
> > >
> >
> > Good. I have no issues with you either. I have even recommeded you to
> > people several times for themes and such.
> >
> > > But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made a
> mis-
> > > leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect human, we
> are
> > > all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have to show to the
> > > community that you consider all the community complaint, want to hear
> the
> > > community, respect to their opinion and want to find a solution not a
> war.
> > >
> >
> > I have considered every thing that was sent my way. I have explained my
> > intentions and my actions until I'm blue in the face. I've asked
> > repeatedly for calm and to stop the flames...but people still continue
> > to post very objectionable comments and complaign about things that are
> > not even true.
> >
> > So when no one is litening I stop talking.
> >
> > > As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while arguin=
g
> and
> > > always create a flame war, even what your're saying was right.
> > >
> >
> > Yes I have a temper. Everyone does. But mine is no more than anyone
> > elses. I have a reputation as being a hothead because I stand my ground
> > when I know I am right. That may be a fault and it may not be..thats a
> > judgement that each person makes for themsleves. I do not care if I am
> > popular...I am not here for a poularity contest. I am here for the sole
> > function of maintaining a pleasant and open development atmosphere. Whe=
n
> > certain individuals come into the community and try desperatley to
> > tarnish Eric Barr's name by characterizing him as Hitler and Nazi I wil=
l
> > get angry and I will take action based on the Terms of Use. The same
> > Terms of Use that have been in effect since the very beginning. I Eric
> > were a member of the Nazi party then I wouldn't have any position to
> > take action...however he IS NOT...and NEV ER HAS BEEN. So characterizin=
g
> > him as a mass murderer and as one of the most evil human beings who eve=
r
> > walked the face of the earth is unacceptable, unforgivabel, and will no=
t
> > be tolerate on Envolution Project Resources. That is not, and never wil=
l
> > be negotiable as there is no justification for it in any language or an=
y
> > culture.
> >
> >
> > > Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take ov=
er
> all
> > > arguing, here in this list or envo site.
> > >
> >
> > You are wrong.
> >
> > > As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step back,
> and
> > > let him manage the community!
> > >
> >
> > Man it takes nerve to say I am not letting him! It is me trying to
> > provide the chance for him to do it. You should stop transferring the
> > blame to me for Erics inability to start perfoming his position and
> > instead direct that statement toward the real people causing the
> > problem.
> >
> > > Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing persona=
l
> > > attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start racism here Z=
oom
> in
> > > this community. If there is one Italian say a bad word to Eric, then
> Eric
> > > should answer him not you. Also one Italian are not the same with oth=
ers
> > > Italian community. Banned and disconnected with existing Italian envo
> > > community, is a failure!
> > >
> >
> > I only banned 2 people so far. I have no idea about any Umberto.
> >
> > > Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting resp=
ond
> for
> > > my suggestions.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > sjah
> > >
> >
> > I'l be online in about an hour. We can chat then if your still
> > interested.
> >
> > Zoom
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
> > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
> >
> http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/=
01
> > _______________________________________________
> > Envolution-devel mailing list
> > Env...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
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> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[David C.C. <dav...@ya...>]

On Tuesday 05 August 2003 15:18, Scott Kindley wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 07:57, TiMax wrote:
> > Thanks for your respect my request and to not have add my news in home
> > page.
> >
> > TiMax
>
> Your post was published.
>
> The content of your post does not further Envolution development so it
> does not belong on the front page.
>
> Zoom

Sorry. I know everybody is tired about this flame, but:
- When envohispano.com was born, it was published in front page.
Now that envolution.it is going to die as "official support", I suppose that 
the new has to be published in the same way, hasn't it?
Nuclei

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 14:09, David C.C. wrote:
> On Tuesday 05 August 2003 15:18, Scott Kindley wrote:
> > On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 07:57, TiMax wrote:
> > > Thanks for your respect my request and to not have add my news in home
> > > page.
> > >
> > > TiMax
> >
> > Your post was published.
> >
> > The content of your post does not further Envolution development so it
> > does not belong on the front page.
> >
> > Zoom
> 
> Sorry. I know everybody is tired about this flame, but:
> - When envohispano.com was born, it was published in front page.
> Now that envolution.it is going to die as "official support", I suppose that 
> the new has to be published in the same way, hasn't it?
> Nuclei
> 

Adding support certainly aids development....taking away support doesnt.

So no it doesnt "further" or "advance" development of Envolution it only
serves to disrupt support until a new suport site is located and
established.

Another way to look at it is that no one wants to read negative comments
and articles...espcially those that are so ugly and malicious in nature
that it makes the entire community look bad. So in the interest of
fairness we published the artile, but not on the main news index page.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 07:31, TiMax wrote:
> I have just submit it in envolution.com, please to publish this news in home page, thanks 
> 

Posted. It will not be front page news so dont complain. Front page news
is reserved for development of code issues.

Now since you have succeeded in alienating yourselves from the rest of
the Envolution community do you think you could find the time to ask
your staff to stop spamming the Envolution email lists with their
personal diatribes. It is clear you folks do not like me or Eric and
frankly I don't think you'll find anyone here who wants to keep reading
the flames originating from your staff.

So if you and yours insist on ging away then please do so, so that the
rest of the Envolution community can move forward with development of
the software which is what it is all about anyway.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[TiMax <ma...@em...>]

I tell you thanks ..... 
and i m not responsable to all my users, so you need to ask that to each=
 person, i remember you that 

The comments are property of their posters

How you can see i don't comment i don't tell nothing, so all claims you=
 receive is spontaneous.

TiMax

On 05 Aug 2003 07:58:44 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote:
>=A0 =A0On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 07:31, TiMax wrote:
>=A0 =A0>=A0I have just submit it in envolution.com, please to publish this news=
 in home page, thanks
>=A0 =A0>
>
>=A0 =A0Posted. It will not be front page news so dont complain. Front page=
 news
>=A0 =A0is reserved for development of code issues.
>
>=A0 =A0Now since you have succeeded in alienating yourselves from the rest of
>=A0 =A0the Envolution community do you think you could find the time to ask
>=A0 =A0your staff to stop spamming the Envolution email lists with their
>=A0 =A0personal diatribes. It is clear you folks do not like me or Eric and
>=A0 =A0frankly I don't think you'll find anyone here who wants to keep reading
>=A0 =A0the flames originating from your staff.
>
>=A0 =A0So if you and yours insist on ging away then please do so, so that the
>=A0 =A0rest of the Envolution community can move forward with development of
>=A0 =A0the software which is what it is all about anyway.
>
>=A0 =A0Zoom
>
>
>=A0 =A0-------------------------------------------------------
>=A0 =A0This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
>=A0 =A0Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
>=A0 =A0Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>=A0=
 =A0http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/0=
1
>=A0 =A0_______________________________________________
>=A0 =A0Envolution-devel mailing list
>=A0 =A0E...@li...
>=A0 =A0https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>
>=A0 =A0__________ NOD32 1.473 (20030801) Information __________
>
>=A0 =A0This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System.
>=A0 =A0http://www.nod32.com

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[TiMax <ma...@em...>]

I think that maybe you'll be afraid to publish this news on the home page=
 and leave the comments on it.

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:08:14 -0400, TiMax wrote:
>=A0 =A0I tell you thanks .....
>=A0 =A0and i m not responsable to all my users, so you need to ask that to each=
 person, i remember you that
>
>=A0 =A0The comments are property of their posters
>
>=A0 =A0How you can see i don't comment i don't tell nothing, so all claims you=
 receive is spontaneous.
>
>=A0 =A0TiMax
>
>=A0 =A0On 05 Aug 2003 07:58:44 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote:
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 07:31, TiMax wrote:
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0>=A0I have just submit it in envolution.com, please to publish this=
 news in home page, thanks
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0>
>=A0 =A0>
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0Posted. It will not be front page news so dont complain. Front page=
 news
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0is reserved for development of code issues.
>=A0 =A0>
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0Now since you have succeeded in alienating yourselves from the rest=
 of
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0the Envolution community do you think you could find the time to=
 ask
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0your staff to stop spamming the Envolution email lists with their
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0personal diatribes. It is clear you folks do not like me or Eric=
 and
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0frankly I don't think you'll find anyone here who wants to keep=
 reading
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0the flames originating from your staff.
>=A0 =A0>
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0So if you and yours insist on ging away then please do so, so that=
 the
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0rest of the Envolution community can move forward with development=
 of
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0the software which is what it is all about anyway.
>=A0 =A0>
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0Zoom
>=A0 =A0>
>=A0 =A0>
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0-------------------------------------------------------
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites=
 including
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>=A0=
 =A0>=A0=A0=A0http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_=
01/01
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0_______________________________________________
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0Envolution-devel mailing list
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0E...@li...
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>=A0 =A0>
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0__________ NOD32 1.473 (20030801) Information __________
>=A0 =A0>
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System.
>=A0 =A0>=A0=A0=A0http://www.nod32.com
>
>
>=A0 =A0-------------------------------------------------------
>=A0 =A0This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
>=A0 =A0Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
>=A0 =A0Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>=A0=
 =A0http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/0=
1
>=A0 =A0_______________________________________________
>=A0 =A0Envolution-devel mailing list
>=A0 =A0E...@li...
>=A0 =A0https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>
>=A0 =A0__________ NOD32 1.473 (20030801) Information __________
>
>=A0 =A0This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System.
>=A0 =A0http://www.nod32.com

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 08:08, TiMax wrote:

> The comments are property of their poster

OK. Now you can go away. 

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[TiMax <ma...@em...>]

Thanks ... you are always so nice and democratic 

TiMax

On 05 Aug 2003 08:26:19 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote:
>=A0 =A0On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 08:08, TiMax wrote:
>
>=A0 =A0>=A0The comments are property of their poster
>
>=A0 =A0OK. Now you can go away.
>
>=A0 =A0Zoom
>
>
>=A0 =A0-------------------------------------------------------
>=A0 =A0This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
>=A0 =A0Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
>=A0 =A0Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>=A0=
 =A0http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/0=
1
>=A0 =A0_______________________________________________
>=A0 =A0Envolution-devel mailing list
>=A0 =A0E...@li...
>=A0 =A0https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>
>=A0 =A0__________ NOD32 1.473 (20030801) Information __________
>
>=A0 =A0This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System.
>=A0 =A0http://www.nod32.com