Menu
▾
▴
envolution-devel
|
From: <Luc...@cs...> - 2003-07-31 07:36:16
|
DQpJJ3ZlIHZpc2l0ZWQgdGhlIG5ldyBlbnZvIHNpdGUsIGl0J3MgYSBncmVhdCBsb3NzIHRoZSBm YWN0IHRoYXQgaXQgd2Fzbid0DQpwb3NzaWJsZSB0byBrZWVwIHRoZSBvbGQgc3R1ZmYgdGhhdCBy ZXByZXNlbnRlZCBhbGwgdGhlIHN1cHBvcnQgd2UgaGFkIGluDQp0ZXJtcyBvZiBhbnN3ZXJzIHRv IHByb2JsZW1zIHBlb3BsZSBoYWQsIGRvY3MgYW5kIHNvIG9uLg0KSSBob3BlIHRoYXQgYWxsIHRo YXQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaXMgbm90IGxvc3QgYW5kIHdpbGwgYmUgcmVjb3ZlcmVkIGluIHNvbWUN CndheSBhbmQgd3JpdHRlbiBvbiBhIGZhcSBvciBzb21ldGhpbmcuDQpEbyB5b3UgdGhpbmsgaXQg Y291bGQgYmUgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gZGlzY3VzcyBhbHNvIG9uIHRoaXMgbGlzdCBhYm91dCB0aGUN CnBsYW5zIGFib3V0IGVudm9sdXRpb24/IFRoZSByb2FkbWFwLCB0aGUgdGFyZ2V0cyB3ZSBoYXZl LCBob3cgZG8gd2UNCm9yZ2FuaXplLg0KVGhhbmtzDQpMdWNhDQo= |
|
From: Eric B. <apa...@xe...> - 2003-07-31 11:59:16
|
We are working on getting all of the documentation and important information
back into the site, it will just take a bit of time to do by hand. It will
be back up soon though :)
As far as discussions for the plans of Envolution, these threads are the
place to post your ideas/comments/concerns. We are also planning on a
meeting this saturday at 10am EST where many of these things will be
discussed. I hope that you can make it!
Eric Barr (a.k.a. ApathyBoy)
Project Manager - Envolution
----- Original Message -----
From: <Luc...@cs...>
To: <env...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 2:39 AM
Subject: [Envolution-devel] A great loss
>
> I've visited the new envo site, it's a great loss the fact that it wasn't
> possible to keep the old stuff that represented all the support we had in
> terms of answers to problems people had, docs and so on.
> I hope that all that information is not lost and will be recovered in some
> way and written on a faq or something.
> Do you think it could be possible to discuss also on this list about the
> plans about envolution? The roadmap, the targets we have, how do we
> organize.
> Thanks
> Luca
>
NHSµéS[¢{çÈZzsnè´4DS×Sw¹Ø?6i¢»ÊTêxúµ©jw¢»±ªjö.¦zzO-?¶?É©z{®ÚSv\¢µ²æJÛ
SfN§ÿ²TµÉrK.Êþ
> ¦ÆÓ]ÓM½ïS·µ«²T·NßM×ý{-ë¢w½éj)z
²Ñ¾?¶*uë-X¶Ëº·~Szw?Û³ÿS˲<qç®zßSËþX¶)£÷¾?¶*uë
|
|
From: Eric B. <apa...@xe...> - 2003-07-31 12:01:35
|
I will be out for the afternoon today until 11pm EST. Everybody play nice while I'm gone! :) If anybody has anything they need to discuss with me, please send an email to apa...@en... and i will reply when i get back. Thanks! Eric Barr (a.k.a. ApathyBoy) Project Manager - Envolution |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-07-31 15:41:42
|
Hello ap, sorry but i m blasted from you I think is not nice your behavior toward me (like old PM), toward italian= community, toward our last year of work. I don't agree also about your idea to put news about vision and roadmap= before and only after ask to have meeting chat with other developers, what happen if all other developers want to develope= all in another way from your vision that you have publishied in site ? Maybe, i think, is better before have chat with people and after put news= in site Lot of people are lazy and tell me that, is strange because i talk about= that i leave but is normal rotation of rules in eNvolution and currents leaders talk about ..... " are you ready to change ?= , old vision is not correct, now we change all...." lot of user, and i talk also about professional user, don't like= it and are worry about that. Why you use irc chat ? lot of people don't like or can't use it, why you= don't use easy Spchat. And do you have think about all people unable to talk english language ? We already start to have two branch of development of eNvolution eNvolution 125FLS stable release where maybe we can release little fix eNvolution 1.3x ?? ...... where you can talk about and change a vision if= other want that ... why you want to change all ? you want to follow Postnuke developement, have you think about directory= structure ? but have you talk about that with other developers ? maybe someone can have advanced developement in another= directory structure. Please re-think a little .... and respect lot of work others developers,= supporters, writers, translators have maked in last year. TiMax |
|
From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-07-31 17:33:45
|
On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 10:40, TiMax wrote: > Hello ap, > > sorry but i m blasted from you > > I think is not nice your behavior toward me (like old PM), toward italian community, toward our last year of work. > I think you misunderstood him Max. > I don't agree also about your idea to put news about vision and roadmap before and only after ask to have meeting chat > with other developers, what happen if all other developers want to develope all in another way from your vision that you > have publishied in site ? No vision or roadmap was put up. In fact It wont be put up till after the meeting. So again I think you misunderstood him. > > Maybe, i think, is better before have chat with people and after put news in site > Thats why there is a meeting saturday on IRC. > Lot of people are lazy and tell me that, is strange because i talk about that i leave but is normal rotation of rules in > eNvolution and currents leaders talk about ..... " are you ready to change ? Well Max there was a change. You resigned and a new person is the PM now...so there was change. Change should be expected. You changed things when you took over and it should be no different to expect changes when a new leader steps in. You should wait until meeting with him before passing judgement. The only thing thats changes so far is the website and DNS. Im working on restoring from the data you provded to me so please be a little patient. > , old vision is not correct, now we change > all...." lot of user, and i talk also about professional user, don't like it and are worry about that. > Change usually woriies people because of the fear of the unknown. No one know s what exactly is changeing so they feel worried about it. Well attend the meeting give your input and listen to new ideas and even old ones and then determine if you should still be worried. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. > Why you use irc chat ? lot of people don't like or can't use it, why you don't use easy Spchat. Mainly cause Ive never heard about it. Secondly IRC is a long time internet standard communication protocol. > > And do you have think about all people unable to talk english language ? No. But those same people who dont speak english wouldnt be reading this list either. So whats your point Max? There is no one person who can speak every language know to every possible member of the community. So until someone who can and has the ability to lead a project of this size language will alsways be a barrier. Logs of all meetings will be posted and someone can tranlate them. Also international communities can also appoint one person who can speak their language and english to attend and speak on their behalf. > > We already start to have two branch of development of eNvolution Are you saying you've split development? > > eNvolution 125FLS stable release where maybe we can release little fix > > eNvolution 1.3x ?? ...... where you can talk about and change a vision if other want that ... > > why you want to change all ? First off Max Im starting to get the impression you are the one aggitating here. No one is changng any vision yet. No meeting has taken pace yet...no changed vision or roadmap has been published. Only a though as to returning to the oriinal roadmap of which changes can be made and incorportaed. I think you speak before you think. > > you want to follow Postnuke developement, have you think about directory structure ? but have you talk about that with > other developers ? maybe someone can have advanced developement in another directory structure. > Again since no meeting has taken place yet your statement is based on nothing but impatient speculation Max. We will not be follwoing PN development. There will be an empahsis placed on mainataining compatability during the 1.x development which is something you always wanted to have in the first place. > Please re-think a little .... and respect lot of work others developers, supporters, writers, translators have maked in > last year. > > TiMax > While you sit accusiong people of not respecting other maybe you should do the same and give a little respect too. Zoom |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-07-31 22:06:30
|
On 31 Jul 2003 12:32:39 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 10:40, TiMax wrote: > > Hello ap, > > > > sorry but i m blasted from you > > > > I think is not nice your behavior toward me (like old PM), toward= italian community, toward our last year of work. > > > > I think you misunderstood him Max. Maybe i misunderstood and with me lot of other people, i think always that= is not nice behavior of AP toward me (like old PM), toward italian community, toward our last year of our work and= toward all international support sites and to not english people. Because of AP news lot of Italian users ask me why new leadership are so= angry with italian community, and not only italian community, or do you want i forward you some italian, french,= canadian, german emails and lot of others i received and they are also very worry about future. So i think that is not only my idea ..... is a general idea. > > I don't agree also about your idea to put news about vision and= roadmap before and only after ask to have meeting chat > > with other developers, what happen if all other developers want to= develope all in another way from your vision that you > > have publishied in site ? > > No vision or roadmap was put up. In fact It wont be put up till after > the meeting. So again I think you misunderstood him. oh yes ? and what is about >Over the course of the next several months we will begin working on the= Envolution code base in order to bring it up to >compliance with version 1.3.0 of the Envolution roadmap. This will happen= in four main phases: >- Code Base 1.2.6 >- Code Base 1.2.7 >- Code Base 1.2.8 >- Code Base 1.2.9 and bla bla bla ??? i know i m not good in english but i m able to read, and also other people,= good in english language have understand same things like me > > Maybe, i think, is better before have chat with people and after put= news in site > > > > Thats why there is a meeting saturday on IRC. That is nice, but i think meeting must be BEFORE post any news about roadmab= and future of eNvolution but is only my 2 cents > > Lot of people are lazy and tell me that, is strange because i talk= about that i leave but is normal rotation of rules in > > eNvolution and currents leaders talk about ..... " are you ready to= change ? > > Well Max there was a change. You resigned and a new person is the PM > now...so there was change. Change should be expected. You changed= things > when you took over and it should be no different to expect changes when > a new leader steps in. You should wait until meeting with him before > passing judgement. The only thing thats changes so far is the website > and DNS. Im working on restoring from the data you provded to me so > please be a little patient. Yes but nobody know this leader, that is the problem, in same thing i write= this email Tinta of Polish support site ask me what happen, he don't understan, he are worry ... but he can read a news= about future of eNvolution in english site and ask me what is and what mean this news, me also i don't know what mean= .... Who have read this news before be published ? > > , old vision is not correct, now we change > > all...." lot of user, and i talk also about professional user, don't= like it and are worry about that. > > > > Change usually woriies people because of the fear of the unknown. No= one > know s what exactly is changeing so they feel worried about it. Well > attend the meeting give your input and listen to new ideas and even old > ones and then determine if you should still be worried. I think you= will > be pleasantly surprised. Nobody talk about change .... this is not a problem, but i repeat .. order= is not right . before meeting and after news. > > Why you use irc chat ? lot of people don't like or can't use it, why= you don't use easy Spchat. > > Mainly cause Ive never heard about it. Secondly IRC is a long time > internet standard communication protocol. IRC is also a long time banned from lot of schools and company. > > And do you have think about all people unable to talk english language= ? > > No. But those same people who dont speak english wouldnt be reading= this > list either. So whats your point Max? Are you sure ?? Maybe they are unable to write but able to read english language, check how= many people are subscribed and how many people write in this mailing list Maybe i talk also from other people .... because they are unable to write in= english, (me also eheh) now i talk with Frank, italian developer and he tell me ... grrrrrr i m able to read but i m= unable to comment. But for someone people like Frank don't exist. > There is no one person who can speak every language know to every possible= member of the community. So > until someone who can and has the ability to lead a project of this= size > language will alsways be a barrier. Logs of all meetings will be posted > and someone can tranlate them. Also international communities can also > appoint one person who can speak their language and english to attend > and speak on their behalf. That maybe only maybe, can be right, but i don't see any reference to all= international support sites and so order now is meeting, publish meeting wait a little to hear answer and take decision= and put news. > > We already start to have two branch of development of eNvolution > > Are you saying you've split development? Yes we have split development. like stefan have writed in mailing list we= have split and start with envo 1.3 in new branch with new directory structure and envo125FLS be our stable release. > First off Max Im starting to get the impression you are the one > aggitating here. No one is changng any vision yet. No meeting has taken > pace yet...no changed vision or roadmap has been published. Only a > though as to returning to the oriinal roadmap of which changes can be > made and incorportaed. I think you speak before you think. i m very calm ..... But so what is news about Future of eNvolution ? for example ..... and .... if all staff don't want to be compatible with= Postnuke ? > > you want to follow Postnuke developement, have you think about= directory structure ? but have you talk about that with > > other developers ? maybe someone can have advanced developement in= another directory structure. > > > > Again since no meeting has taken place yet your statement is based on > nothing but impatient speculation Max. We will not be follwoing PN > development. There will be an empahsis placed on mainataining > compatability during the 1.x development which is something you always > wanted to have in the first place. So AGAIN SINCE NO MEETING has take ... no news must be published about= future of eNvolution ... but is only my 2 cents > > Please re-think a little .... and respect lot of work others= developers, supporters, writers, translators have maked in > > last year. > > > > TiMax > > > While you sit accusiong people of not respecting other maybe you should > do the same and give a little respect too. and what you mean with " While TiMax's leadership and vision will surely be missed ... " and " The current plans for the Envolution project are to take the current code= base, (1.2.5 FLS), and put it back on track with the original Vision and Roadmap " and " The choice was made after careful consideration to start with a clean= install " How you can put these news wihout have talk with others developers ?? Don't misunderstood me, i know that Apathboy is a good boy and good= developer, and i m sure he can make a good job, but i mean that he must talk and hear all developers and staff, and only after= he can take his and last decision, because sure he is PM so last decision is her, but .... again .... only after talked= and hear all .... Don't misunderstood more me .. and don't take it offensive or personal ... But do you want eNvolution to continue work and development or do you want= eNvolution only for his name ?? I know Zoom you make very good job and with passion, also if you use linux= but stop please to say that i give you only 7 days, i already tell you take your time all data still in my server and i= don't have problem Last time we work around this transfer, i send you all data in different= format, i help you to add all domains in your control panel, i give you all access in all administration sourgeforce,= site, mailing list, ftp, database, bla bla, but i say you also that for me the best procedure to transfert all is 1 transfer envolution.info (now it is not used), in you server and work to= put online site and test all .... envolution.com still in my server online. 2 when all is ok in your server with envolution.info domain, we can update= database with last data and, i can add redirect in envolution.com versus envoltuion.info in your server. 3 so in same time all people tipyng www.envolution.com are redirect in= www.envolution.info site in your server and we can transfer also www.envolution.com domain. 4 when envolution.com domain is in your server you can manage it like you= want ... .in this way you can manage maybe also I work with you in 27-28 july around it and we have start procedure to= transfer envolution.info .org . biz france and canada to make steps i talk before .... ...... the day after i see that .. also envolution.com and envolution.net= start to be transfered .... i found new envolution.com site, with news with lot of changements new vision bla bla= bla ........ and all is new for me like to all other people. So again, i don't have any problem with Apathboy and i m happy to help and= support he, i m here but maybe he must re-think a little what he write and talk with other before post important= news. Timax p.s. Just in this moment another people ask me why new eNvo leader are so= angry with me and old development. |
|
From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-01 03:21:35
|
On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 16:50, TiMax wrote: > > > We already start to have two branch of development of eNvolution > > > > Are you saying you've split development? > > Yes we have split development. like stefan have writed in mailing list we have split and start with envo 1.3 in new > branch with new directory structure and envo125FLS be our stable release. > Well we wish you luck with your new fork Max. > and what you mean with > " While TiMax's leadership and vision will surely be missed ... " It means we were sad to see you resign and will miss you. It was a huge complement ApathyBoy gave you. > > and > > " The current plans for the Envolution project are to take the current code base, (1.2.5 FLS), and put it back on track > with the original Vision and Roadmap " It means to take the current code base and clean out all the pnHTML crap that should have been removed a long long time ago. Thats all. It means we plan to improve it. > > and > " The choice was made after careful consideration to start with a clean install " > I've already explained this several times to you in private and in public. The clean install was because we didn't think we would be able to merge the sql dumps into the new server. Once again I will repeat that this was overcome and is a non-issue now. > How you can put these news wihout have talk with others developers ?? > Development is open totally Max....but the server migration, domain, transfers, and DNS issues are not related to develoment. They are logistical issue that do not need to be run by every tom, dick, or harry in the community. You didn't consult with community members about putting up slow java applets did you? No you didn't. You didn't consult the community when adding "fill in the blank here". Fact is Max administering the DNS and servers is not in the area of relevance to developers of the software. Period. > Don't misunderstood me, i know that Apathboy is a good boy and good developer, and i m sure he can make a good job, but > i mean that he must talk and hear all developers and staff, and only after he can take his and last decision, because > sure he is PM so last decision is her, but .... again .... only after talked and hear all .... > Good. Now back off and let him do his job. Constant criticism is what you said one of the reasons you quit. Now your dishing out the same thing you didn't want yourself. > But do you want eNvolution to continue work and development or do you want eNvolution only for his name ?? > I will make sure Envolution is everything you, brandon, brian, and I started. Nothing changed. > I know Zoom you make very good job and with passion, also if you use linux but stop please to say that i give you only 7 > days, i already tell you take your time all data still in my server and i don't have problem > You said you wanted it handled quickly. After I tried to ralk you out of it over three of those days you insisted you we quitting. So I took you at your word and did exaclty as you asked and now your bitching to me about it? Thats really unfair. > Last time we work around this transfer, i send you all data in different format, i help you to add all domains in your > control panel, i give you all access in all administration sourgeforce, site, mailing list, ftp, database, bla bla, but > i say you also that for me the best procedure to transfert all is > > 1 transfer envolution.info (now it is not used), in you server and work to put online site and test all .... > envolution.com still in my server online. > > 2 when all is ok in your server with envolution.info domain, we can update database with last data and, i can add > redirect in envolution.com versus envoltuion.info in your server. > > 3 so in same time all people tipyng www.envolution.com are redirect in www.envolution.info site in your server and we > can transfer also www.envolution.com domain. > > 4 when envolution.com domain is in your server you can manage it like you want ... .in this way you can manage maybe > also > I have no clue what your talking about here. DNS shows the domains are propagated now so this is a non issue. All domains point to the server envolution.com is on now except for the one you requested I point to envolution.de. Again I facilitated right away what you asked me to do...now your complaining because I did it?? That soesnt make sense. > I work with you in 27-28 july around it and we have start procedure to transfer envolution.info .org . biz france and > canada to make steps i talk before .... > > ...... the day after i see that .. also envolution.com and envolution.net start to be transfered .... i found new > envolution.com site, with news with lot of changements new vision bla bla bla ........ and all is new for me like to all > other people. > > So again, i don't have any problem with Apathboy and i m happy to help and support he, i m here but maybe he must > re-think a little what he write and talk with other before post important news. > > Timax > > p.s. Just in this moment another people ask me why new eNvo leader are so angry with me and old development. > Just this moment people ask me why TiMax is complaining after he resigned and a new PM took over. Zoom |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-01 03:32:02
|
On 31 Jul 2003 22:20:34 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 16:50, TiMax wrote: > > > > We already start to have two branch of development of= eNvolution > > > > > > Are you saying you've split development? > > > > Yes we have split development. like stefan have writed in mailing list= we have split and start with envo 1.3 in new > > branch with new directory structure and envo125FLS be our stable= release. > > > > Well we wish you luck with your new fork Max. ??????????? What you have understand ? Split development in eNvolution cvs ... check it= .... i not another fork is always eNvolution with two branch of developement. > > and what you mean with > > " While TiMax's leadership and vision will surely be missed ... " > > It means we were sad to see you resign and will miss you. It was a huge > complement ApathyBoy gave you. I think nobody understand that ....... otherwise why lot of people write me= about it Max |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-01 03:43:20
|
On 31 Jul 2003 22:20:34 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > Just this moment people ask me why TiMax is complaining after he > resigned and a new PM took over. > > Zoom Because i m co-founder and member of Staff, but tell me ...... maybe i= disturb you ? do you want to leave all or do you want i close my mouth ?? I have no problem ..... just le me know :) and i can take my decisions TiMax |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-01 03:49:03
|
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:42:28 -0400, TiMax wrote: > On 31 Jul 2003 22:20:34 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > > Just this moment people ask me why TiMax is complaining after he > > resigned and a new PM took over. > > > > Zoom > > Because i m co-founder and member of Staff, but tell me ...... maybe i= disturb you ? > > do you want to leave all or do you want i close my mouth ?? > > I have no problem ..... just le me know :) and i can take my decisions > > TiMax And remember with my cheap and very poor english but i talk not only for me= but also for all people unable to write english ....... Max |
|
From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-01 04:34:53
|
On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 22:48, TiMax wrote: > And remember with my cheap and very poor english but i talk not only for me but also for all people unable to write > english ....... > > Max > We are like brothers Max. I understand you fine and you understand me fine as well. Lets take a little break and chat Saturday morning in the meeting please. As always everyone is invited and encouraged to attend. Translators are welcomed and needed so those that don't speak english can speak up for themsleves. Zoom |
|
From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-01 04:31:48
|
On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 22:42, TiMax wrote: > On 31 Jul 2003 22:20:34 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > > Just this moment people ask me why TiMax is complaining after he > > resigned and a new PM took over. > > > > Zoom > > Because i m co-founder and member of Staff, but tell me ...... maybe i disturb you ? > > do you want to leave all or do you want i close my mouth ?? > > I have no problem ..... just le me know :) and i can take my decisions > > TiMax > You can say whatever you feel like saying Max. I am very disappointed that you would start critisizing before anything could even get started. Damn it's only been 5 days since you announced your resignation and already shit hits the fan before we can even get a reorganization meeting started. A little patience could have been given extended considering the short notice and all. Zoom |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-01 05:59:30
|
On 31 Jul 2003 23:31:01 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: >=A0 =A0On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 22:42, TiMax wrote: >=A0 =A0>=A0On 31 Jul 2003 22:20:34 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: >=A0 =A0>=A0>=A0 =A0Just this moment people ask me why TiMax is complaining after he >=A0 =A0>=A0>=A0 =A0resigned and a new PM took over. >=A0 =A0>=A0> >=A0 =A0>=A0>=A0 =A0Zoom >=A0 =A0> >=A0 =A0>=A0Because i m co-founder and member of Staff, but tell me ...... maybe i= disturb you ? >=A0 =A0> >=A0 =A0>=A0do you want to leave all or do you want i close my mouth ?? >=A0 =A0> >=A0 =A0>=A0I have no problem ..... just le me know :) and i can take my= decisions >=A0 =A0> >=A0 =A0>=A0TiMax >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0You can say whatever you feel like saying Max. I am very disappointed >=A0 =A0that you would start critisizing before anything could even get= started. > >=A0 =A0Damn it's only been 5 days since you announced your resignation and >=A0 =A0already shit hits the fan before we can even get a reorganization >=A0 =A0meeting started. > >=A0 =A0A little patience could have been given extended considering the short >=A0 =A0notice and all. > >=A0 =A0Zoom Yes but damm after 1 day we have changed PM all people can read one news= with important contents and nobody in staff or in support sites know= nothing about it. Are you seriusly Scott ? All is great, one news from AP new PM talk in general ..welcome bla bla bla= ... i m happy bla bla bla .... i try to make my best bla bla bla .... but= not a news with already roadmap and some specifications without have= talked with nobody.,. The problem for me but also for other is the content of news ...... and it is only a open discussion ........... TiMax |
|
From: Eric B. <apa...@xe...> - 2003-08-01 06:57:29
|
It is late and I have just recently got home from a long day so I want to make this quick. I will post comments to your other questions tomorrow when i have had time to think on them. As project manager it is my job to give some stability to this project? If this is not my duty then what am I suppose to be doing as a project manager? The decision to follow the original roadmap is a decision I am sticking by and will not change unless a better solution is provided during one of the meetings. This roadmap and vision has been on the envolution website from day one until now and as far as I am aware it has never been changed. I do not understand why you are having such a big problem with this. This was the outline agreed upon by the entire community when the Envolution project began, not something I made up by myself. Also, I have never said anything about throwing away all the work you and the development team of the last 6+ months. We will be keeping all of the new features that everyone has worked very hard on during that time. I do not understand where you got this idea from. The changes that I outlined only talked about making everything work the best that it can. As far as me offending you personally TiMax, I do not think I have done or said anything that should do that. I complimented you on your hard work and said that it will be missed. This was meant as a good thing. I did say that you didn't give us much notice, but this is true. I'm sorry if that makes you look bad, but I can't really help that. I understand your reasons and don't personally hold any grudge for it. If you have any questions about my decisions you can contact me personally. My door is always open, so please use it :) ApathyBoy ----- Original Message ----- From: "TiMax" <ma...@em...> To: <env...@li...> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] Ap please re-think a litle On 31 Jul 2003 23:31:01 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 22:42, TiMax wrote: > > On 31 Jul 2003 22:20:34 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > > > Just this moment people ask me why TiMax is complaining after he > > > resigned and a new PM took over. > > > > > > Zoom > > > > Because i m co-founder and member of Staff, but tell me ...... maybe i disturb you ? > > > > do you want to leave all or do you want i close my mouth ?? > > > > I have no problem ..... just le me know :) and i can take my decisions > > > > TiMax > > > > You can say whatever you feel like saying Max. I am very disappointed > that you would start critisizing before anything could even get started. > > Damn it's only been 5 days since you announced your resignation and > already shit hits the fan before we can even get a reorganization > meeting started. > > A little patience could have been given extended considering the short > notice and all. > > Zoom Yes but damm after 1 day we have changed PM all people can read one news with important contents and nobody in staff or in support sites know nothing about it. Are you seriusly Scott ? All is great, one news from AP new PM talk in general ..welcome bla bla bla ... i m happy bla bla bla .... i try to make my best bla bla bla .... but not a news with already roadmap and some specifications without have talked with nobody.,. The problem for me but also for other is the content of news ...... and it is only a open discussion ........... TiMax ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 _______________________________________________ Envolution-devel mailing list Env...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel |
|
From: putino <pu...@pu...> - 2003-08-01 09:05:26
|
Hi all, I'm a member of eNvolution Italian Community and I can confirm TiMax and his worries about eNvolution. Since he has resigned I've heard so many people to be worried about future of eNvolution that I cannot count them now. Many people have noticed the same as TiMax, a sort of bad behaviour of "new staff" against Italian Community and TiMax himself. In particular this became from some things are happened in these days, for example the title "Are you ready for a change ?" or the new roadmap that has been drafted without any discussion since now with the team and the staff and only after you've drafted it you have spoken about a meeting: it's not fair this for me and for many many other people. Remember please that not so many people in Italian Community know well English and expecially many cannot write in English, than I can confirm TiMax about this problem, and i can add that many Italian people have spoken with me and tell me the same things as TiMax have written you. I want to say too that it's very important for the future of eNvolution that you will win confidence of the Community, and remember please that one of most important part of this Community is Italian one and that here we have much confidence in TiMax, and not only here. All Open Source project and project in general cannot exist without their Communities, and it's also your responsability to have their confidence, I suppose :) And I suppose also that some behaviours can be interpreted as hostile and can be less confidence in this project. I hope that this will not happen, it depends from you, and from all Community and I think that this will be a matter of discussion in the 2nd August meeting. Bye all, .::. putino .::. pu...@pu... http://www.putino.it |
|
From: <s.k...@pr...> - 2003-08-01 09:35:51
|
Hi Eric, and now we are back to the beginning of our discussion from monday (or sunday, I don't know). [...] > The decision to follow the original roadmap is a decision I am sticking by > and will not change unless a better solution is provided during one of the > meetings. This roadmap and vision has been on the envolution website from > day one until now and as far as I am aware it has never been changed. I do > not understand why you are having such a big problem with this. This was the > outline agreed upon by the entire community when the Envolution project > began, not something I made up by myself. [...] You can't take the old roadmap and plans from year 2002. It is definetly out of date. But this seems to me, that this would be your basis to start this project new, in this strictly way without talking with the new staff you don't know. And remember: The new people who entered eNvolution after you take a rest, do not know you also. Ok. We have a meeting at this weekend now. But you publish an article with all these things BEFORE we all get the possibility to react. Thus you also do not need to be surprised at all the comments. And now you start same thing again. Why? And don't talk about: "I'm nevertheless Co-Founder !" "I'm nevertheless Project-Manager !" "I can do that !" We are a open community and everybody who use eNvolution for his needs is part of it. Ok. It would be better been to delete the old roadmap. But we had other things to do, with a higher priority. And as you can see, that eNvo 1.2.5 FLS has nothing to do with the system eNvo 1.0 where you are Co-Founder of. So let it be to post such mails again on this list. Scott and you talk about here and elsewhere we have to wait and meet us all together in chat at weekend. Why does not make it yourself also in such a way? [...] > Also, I have never said anything about throwing away all the work you and > the development team of the last 6+ months. We will be keeping all of the > new features that everyone has worked very hard on during that time. I do > not understand where you got this idea from. [...] You can't take the old roadmap and rollback the eNvo-project to defined starting point to bring up the ship onto the course of this roadmap without throwing away some parts we have done last 6 months. This again-speaks itself. And again: More productive would be to wait for the discussions on chat and the results of it. Good luck, Stefan aka WindMeUp |
|
From: Andrei K. <ak...@ho...> - 2003-08-01 10:23:55
|
Hi Stefan, In 2002 four people got together and forked PostNuke and created project we call Envolution. Founders summarized their vision into a roadmap you are referring to. Remember, this is not your vision (with all due respect), not Eric's vision, and not my vision. We may agree or disagree with it, full freedom of choice. Also, until new vision is developed and presented to the community, the old one stands, whether you like it or not. Now, if you disagree with Envolution vision, you are free to do the same thing four Envolution founders did in 2002, namely fork. Now, there are only four people that can change the roadmap. If they decide to do so, the community is free to choose whether to accept new vision or find another vision (project). Again, full freedom of choice. From your comments, it appears to me that you are not sure how all the hard work you did will be viewed by new Project Manager. Well, if that work does not conflict with the roadmap, there is absolutely nothing to worry about! If your work goes beyond the roadmap WITHOUT conflicting with it, then there is nothing to worry about again! From Eric's comments it is clear that all he would like to do is follow the roadmap. No more, no less. Best Regards ak |
|
From: gagl <ca...@fr...> - 2003-08-01 17:27:02
|
ciao to all:=20 I read again eNvolution original Vision and roadmap: I found only at the = beginning "The Vision is to create the ultimate Content Management = System. This new CMS is called Envolution, and will initially be based = on the Postnuke 0.7x code base. " the word Postnuke and no referrers on = working to get get eNvo Postnuke-compatible. The different directory = structure is stated in envo vision of the founders.... since 2002 many = other function have been developed without beeing in the original = roadmap of The Fabolous Four... many developers has added the project... = many tasks and positions has been given to staff people...many new = projects are planned.... I don't know who is this Kivilev, but every day there appear new staff, = new people never heard before, who say to the Lead Developer: ". Now, = there are only four people that can change the roadmap. If they decide = to do so, the community is free to choose whether to accept new vision = or find another vision (project). " THAT'S DEMOCRATIC....=20 I think I begun to understand what's going on here, and stephan is = right: some people returned to eNvolyution and now want to change = everything, intimating:"!We are the founders! If you want to stay , you = have to do what I say, else go". NOW I UNDERSTAND IT CLEAR. THANKS, = NIKILEV OR WHO YOU ARE. I propsed myself for Doc Management for eNvo, I worked very fine with = Max, Stephan, all the other new non-founders, but things changed....=20 A tip for all newbies in staff: someone maybe want the power, the = command here, not comunication and respect for people that this new = "management" doesn't know. Stephan hasn't resigned and is still Lead Developer: a little bit of = respect, please. capretta |
|
From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-01 17:51:41
|
On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 11:45, gagl wrote: > ciao to all: > I read again eNvolution original Vision and roadmap: I found only at > the beginning "The Vision is to create the ultimate Content Management > System. This new CMS is called Envolution, and will initially be based > on the Postnuke 0.7x code base. " the word Postnuke and no referrers > on working to get get eNvo Postnuke-compatible. The different > directory structure is stated in envo vision of the founders.... since > 2002 many other function have been developed without beeing in the > original roadmap of The Fabolous Four... many developers has added the > project... many tasks and positions has been given to staff > people...many new projects are planned.... What part of nothing has changed do you not understand. It was an idea that was published about his perspective on the roadmap and as the new PM he certainly is within his rights to do just that. No changes will occur until after the meeting. Everything is currently frozen until then. > I don't know who is this Kivilev, but every day there appear new > staff, new people never heard before, who say to the Lead Developer: So are you saying you have a problem with new people joining or rejoining Envolution? > ". Now, there are only four people that can change the roadmap. If > they decide to do so, the community is free to choose whether to > accept new vision or find another vision (project). " THAT'S > DEMOCRATIC.... > I think I begun to understand what's going on here, and stephan is > right: some people returned to eNvolyution and now want to change > everything, Show me one post where Max, Brandon, Brian, or I have said "we want to change everything". > intimating:"!We are the founders! If you want to stay , you have to > do what I say, else go". NOW I UNDERSTAND IT CLEAR. THANKS, NIKILEV OR > WHO YOU ARE. So now your gonna attack someone because they don't agree with you huh? Someone you admit you don't even know. > I propsed myself for Doc Management for eNvo, I worked very fine with > Max, Stephan, all the other new non-founders, but things changed.... Yeah things did change. Max changed it when he resigned. So if you have a problem about the changes ask Max how many times I tried to get him to reconsider. Ask Max how many times other people tried to get him to reconsider. > > A tip for all newbies in staff: someone maybe want the power, the > command here, not comunication and respect for people that this new > "management" doesn't know. Hey Capretta. You keep slinging personal insults and making false accusations. Make sure the bridges you keep burning don't ruin relationships in the process. Cause frankly thats whats happening. > Stephan hasn't resigned and is still Lead Developer: a little bit of > respect, please. > capretta Respect works both ways Capreatta. You should probably follow some of your own advice here. When you folks are done trying to run people away from Envolution let me know so we can move forward and progress. Zoom |
|
From: Andrei K. <ak...@ho...> - 2003-08-01 18:04:22
|
Hi there capretta, My nick used to be ak, but somehow it got deleted from envo site. When I tried to reregister I was told that my nick was too short, go figure :). Anyway, it is akevolution now. As for who I am, well, I am one of those guys that left. For the record, I have never held an official position on the core envo team, nor I am looking for one. As for my credentials, I helped webmedic to get envo1.0 out. Somehow, I don't remember you helping out. If I am wrong, correct me, no problem with that. That was a hectic time, as it is now. But as you said, time passes and things are not the same anymore. I am not aware of any of your accomplishments, but that is probably because I don't use current Envolution version. As for staff positions, I am not aware of ANYONE who would try to take anything from current staff members. We all have our personal agendas here, including you. If it were not true, there would not be any flame wars here. As for " The Fabolous Four ", let's not forget that TiMax is one of them. He took PM position with understanding that he will lead the development according to that roadmap. If he did not agree to it, he would not take that job. Simple as that. But, somewhere along the way, things changed. How they changed, I can't say, I was not there. But, and this is my personal opinion, TiMax did not like the outcome of that change, which resulted in his resignation. The rest we all know. This is not intended as a flame back, but somehow I feel it will be taken that way. Anyway, as you pointed out, you don't know me and I don't know you. So, not a big deal. Best Regards, ak |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-01 03:45:38
|
On 31 Jul 2003 22:20:34 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > > How you can put these news wihout have talk with others developers ?? > > > > Development is open totally Max....but the server migration, domain, > transfers, and DNS issues are not related to develoment. They are > logistical issue that do not need to be run by every tom, dick, or= harry > in the community. I don't talk about server migration domain transfes etc ... i talk about= vision and roadmap contents ...... in the news > > You didn't consult with community members about putting up slow java > applets did you? No you didn't. Sorry for you but i have consult with some member of sta also for slow java= applets, i put java applets instead dhtml scroller because some of our staff have trouble with some OS and browser to= see dhtml. You didn't consult the community when > adding "fill in the blank here". Can you explain that ? Max |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-01 03:50:06
|
On 31 Jul 2003 22:20:34 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > > I know Zoom you make very good job and with passion, also if you use= linux but stop please to say that i give you only 7 > > days, i already tell you take your time all data still in my server= and i don't have problem > > > > You said you wanted it handled quickly. After I tried to ralk you out= of > it over three of those days you insisted you we quitting. So I took you > at your word and did exaclty as you asked and now your bitching to me > about it? Thats really unfair. Hey .... I NEVER TELL YOU TO MAKE IT QUICKLY ... i tell you take your time= ..... otherwise why i tell you to transfert only some domains in first step and= other in another step bla bla bla ? Is logic you can't make it in 1 day for me is not a problem ..... data are always in server Max |
|
From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-01 04:27:08
|
On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 22:39, TiMax wrote: > Hey .... I NEVER TELL YOU TO MAKE IT QUICKLY ... i tell you take your time ..... <quote> I give you one week if someone want to continue my work and found another servers to host eNvolution project and related site, now i use 4 servers + sourgeforge server + Stefan server to make a backup. When someone are ready i can send it all backups and bla bla bla. Bye TiMax <end quote> That quote was from Saturday July 26 on this list in your resignation announcement. You said, "I give you one week...." That is a pretty short time to do everything that needed to be done isn't it? Zoom |
|
From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-01 05:54:48
|
On 31 Jul 2003 23:26:24 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: >=A0 =A0On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 22:39, TiMax wrote: > >=A0 =A0>=A0Hey .... I NEVER TELL YOU TO MAKE IT QUICKLY ... =A0i tell you take your= time ..... > >=A0 =A0<quote> >=A0 =A0I give you one week if someone want to continue my work and found >=A0 =A0another servers to host eNvolution project and related >=A0 =A0site, now i use 4 servers + sourgeforge server + Stefan server to make= a >=A0 =A0backup. >=A0 =A0When someone are ready i can send it all backups and bla bla bla. Here i mean one week to inform or contact me, and you have contacted me= after one hour, I don't have write " if nobody contact me in one week i put offline all= servers " |
|
From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-07-31 16:13:32
|
On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 02:39, Luc...@cs... wrote: > I've visited the new envo site, it's a great loss the fact that it wasn't > possible to keep the old stuff that represented all the support we had in > terms of answers to problems people had, docs and so on. > I hope that all that information is not lost and will be recovered in some > way and written on a faq or something. > Do you think it could be possible to discuss also on this list about the > plans about envolution? The roadmap, the targets we have, how do we > organize. > Thanks > Luca All the previsou data is intact and preserved. The problem is in getting the data imported to the new server. The database is so large it chokes part of the way through the process. So I have to manually add them bit by bit. So intead of keeping a static page up with little to no information on it we put up what is there now and explained we will migrate the data over as we can. It is a time consuming process. Zoom |
×
Want the latest updates on software, tech news, and AI?
Get latest updates about software, tech news, and AI from SourceForge directly in your inbox once a month.
Thanks for helping keep SourceForge clean.
X