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From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-02 22:07:18
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Sorry wrong thread I submited this news in envolution.com, please to add it in home page,= thanks TiMax -------------------------- This short news is just to comunicate that I decided to go out from the= active developement of eNvolution and definitively from the eNvolution= project. I'm sorry to see that this eNvolution is not the one on with me and all the= staff were working on... our vision discussed and approved is now= cancelled... there wasn't respect of me, the staff and the all= management... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and= Support Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were= working on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than= this all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were= immediately declassed. I'm sorry at this point eNvolution is not more the one on which I hardly= worked. I prefer to keep on my ideas and vision in my MaxDev project, working to= expand and improve eNvolution, PostNuke, Oscommerce and many other= softwares, to promote the Open Source even with commercial purposes, helped= on this by all the international Staff members in full agreement and with= real passion. I thank everybody sustained me with comments, mail, messages, etc. Regarding the eNvolution.it nothing is changed it will remain the Italian= support site with all the community growth around it. TiMax MaxDev Staff www.maxdev.com |
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From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-02 23:11:35
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On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 17:06, TiMax wrote: > Sorry wrong thread > I submited this news in envolution.com, please to add it in home page, thanks > > TiMax > > -------------------------- > > This short news is just to comunicate that I decided to go out from the active developement of eNvolution and definitively from the eNvolution project. > I'm sorry to see that this eNvolution is not the one on with me and all the staff were working on... our vision discussed and approved is now cancelled... there wasn't respect of me, the staff and the all management... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and Support Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were working on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than this all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were immediately declassed. > > I'm sorry at this point eNvolution is not more the one on which I hardly worked. > > I prefer to keep on my ideas and vision in my MaxDev project, working to expand and improve eNvolution, PostNuke, Oscommerce and many other softwares, to promote the Open Source even with commercial purposes, helped on this by all the international Staff members in full agreement and with real passion. > > I thank everybody sustained me with comments, mail, messages, etc. > > Regarding the eNvolution.it nothing is changed it will remain the Italian support site with all the community growth around it. > > TiMax > MaxDev Staff > www.maxdev.com > I knew you were going to pull this Max. I am not going to publish this article when it contains factual inaccuracies and fasle statements. You were notified well in advance of a meeting and YOU chose not to attend. So don't give me the crap about your vision being cancelled, changed or whatever. Envolution is larger than you and you didn't respect Envoolution enough to grace us with your presence. Resubmit news that is factual and Ill publish it...other than that have a great day! Zoom |
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From: putino <pu...@pu...> - 2003-08-03 00:28:27
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I consider this only in a way: censorship. You could have posted the news and commented. You have decided to not make this. Then i say: this is real censorship. Nothing of personal, it's my opinion, and I'm free to say this. Bye, putino Scott Kindley Scrive: > On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 17:06, TiMax wrote: >> Sorry wrong thread >> I submited this news in envolution.com, please to add it in home page, thanks >> >> TiMax >> >> -------------------------- >> >> This short news is just to comunicate that I decided to go out from the active developement of eNvolution and definitively from the eNvolution project. >> I'm sorry to see that this eNvolution is not the one on with me and all the staff were working on... our vision discussed and approved is now cancelled... there wasn't respect of me, the staff and the all management... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and Support Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were working on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than this all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were immediately declassed. >> >> I'm sorry at this point eNvolution is not more the one on which I hardly worked. >> >> I prefer to keep on my ideas and vision in my MaxDev project, working to expand and improve eNvolution, PostNuke, Oscommerce and many other softwares, to promote the Open Source even with commercial purposes, helped on this by all the international Staff members in full agreement and with real passion. >> >> I thank everybody sustained me with comments, mail, messages, etc. >> >> Regarding the eNvolution.it nothing is changed it will remain the Italian support site with all the community growth around it. >> >> TiMax >> MaxDev Staff >> www.maxdev.com >> > > I knew you were going to pull this Max. > > I am not going to publish this article when it contains factual > inaccuracies and fasle statements. > > You were notified well in advance of a meeting and YOU chose not to > attend. So don't give me the crap about your vision being cancelled, > changed or whatever. Envolution is larger than you and you didn't > respect Envoolution enough to grace us with your presence. > > Resubmit news that is factual and Ill publish it...other than that have > a great day! > > Zoom > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Envolution-devel mailing list > Env...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel |
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From: <s.k...@pr...> - 2003-08-03 01:25:32
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@Zoom: Now public on dev-list, because you don't answer my last email. Tell me please, where TiMax' article contains "factual inaccuracies and fasle statements." What he said is the truth. A bit history: TiMax ask in the dev-list if someone can be Lead Developer, no answer. Some days later he ask again. Then I explained that I will do the job. After that TiMax informed the staff and the comunity about my new function. So I'm Lead Developer of eNvolution. And all agreed. Same with SupportManager and DocManager positions. And at this time there came no veto from. I think I don't need to talk about the roadmap again. Because our development which we starts had nothing to do with the old roadmap. We create things and modified parts of the code to make eNvo safer, faster and more professional, with some new features and functions. And that all, because the community ask for. This was (if you take a look on the roadmap) not the right way. But if this all happens - no veto from you, again. So for me, all founders accept our work and we do the right things. This seems to be over. You want to take eNvolution. But not with the staff members who entered eNvolution at TiMax era. You want to place new members on official functions. And you ask only one time for Project Manager. And then after 2 hours apathyboy was the new project manager. Nice, very nice. All following steps (transfering data, downtime, basic installation,etc.), the article and all bad other things that happend the last days, you managed alone without the staff members. This was not professional. Sorry. I told you more then 3 times, that I can help you with all the problems you rolled in. All you say was "Yes I need much help" but without saying where and what. As I can see now on eNvolution.com I am gradated. But I don't know. Why? What are the results of chat meeting today? I don't know. Why? And you know why I can't visit meeting today. I told it to all as comment. And Zoom, after our private mails where we discuss something internally (remember I told you that this should not be part of a public mailing list or as a comment of an article - I think that was fair), I got no answers or infos. The only result of this mailing was, that you delete me from LeadDeveloper List and I'm normal member now. That is your right. Nothing to say. But it would be nice if you can inform me about this step, isn't it? And then this mail on this list of AK (who is it?) who talk about the roadmap and we have no rights to change that. That's enough. One of our rule was to inform the community about new things are planned or new staff members are entered (note: Welcome new member as a "profile"). And AK seems to be a new staff member. You break our rules not we. And this rules were born since our reorganisation and restructure phase. But you don't ask us what is new and what you have to consider. Ok. If I'm no longer Lead Developer then there is no needing for you to tell me details. I don't want to know it. I'm normal member of eNvo.com And I would be only Webadmin of envolution.de Nothing else. Ok. Can you tell me please, as it continues now? Stefan aka WindMeUp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Kindley" <sc...@ki...> To: "Evolution-Dev-List" <env...@li...> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 1:10 AM Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] Leaving eNvolution > On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 17:06, TiMax wrote: > > Sorry wrong thread > > I submited this news in envolution.com, please to add it in home page, thanks > > > > TiMax > > > > -------------------------- > > > > This short news is just to comunicate that I decided to go out from the active developement of eNvolution and definitively from the eNvolution project. > > I'm sorry to see that this eNvolution is not the one on with me and all the staff were working on... our vision discussed and approved is now cancelled... there wasn't respect of me, the staff and the all management... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and Support Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were working on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than this all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were immediately declassed. > > > > I'm sorry at this point eNvolution is not more the one on which I hardly worked. > > > > I prefer to keep on my ideas and vision in my MaxDev project, working to expand and improve eNvolution, PostNuke, Oscommerce and many other softwares, to promote the Open Source even with commercial purposes, helped on this by all the international Staff members in full agreement and with real passion. > > > > I thank everybody sustained me with comments, mail, messages, etc. > > > > Regarding the eNvolution.it nothing is changed it will remain the Italian support site with all the community growth around it. > > > > TiMax > > MaxDev Staff > > www.maxdev.com > > > > I knew you were going to pull this Max. > > I am not going to publish this article when it contains factual > inaccuracies and fasle statements. > > You were notified well in advance of a meeting and YOU chose not to > attend. So don't give me the crap about your vision being cancelled, > changed or whatever. Envolution is larger than you and you didn't > respect Envoolution enough to grace us with your presence. > > Resubmit news that is factual and Ill publish it...other than that have > a great day! > > Zoom > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Envolution-devel mailing list > Env...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel |
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From: Eric B. <apa...@xe...> - 2003-08-03 02:54:51
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Stefan, First thing I would like to discuss, nobody has removed you from the position of Lead Developer, that position is still yours to hold if you want it. Also, when TiMax took over as project manager there was a period of time for reorganization and restructuring wasn't there? So why is it a bad thing for there to be reorganization and restructuring this time? That does not seem fair. When new management comes into being there is always a time for reorganization and restructuring, and no changes at all have been made to the project yet, only new ideas presented. Changes will only come after discussion and agreement with the entire community. Now, I would like to address a few specific things in your email. "This seems to be over. You want to take eNvolution. But not with the staff members who entered eNvolution at TiMax era. You want to place new members on official functions." This is no longer the "TiMax" era, but it is also not the beginning of the "ApathyBoy" era either. The problem here is that this project is not about any one person, but about the entire community. No staff members have been replaced (other than TiMax) and everybody who held a position before I took over as Project Manager is invited to keep those positions. As far as your being removed from the Lead Developer list, I'm not sure exactly what you meant by this but I do know that we have turned off admin access on a lot of things only until we have found out who is staying and who is leaving. Once that has been cleared up all admin privledges will be turned back on for those who hold positions. This is only temporary and I hope that we get this cleared up during this week :) Also, I understand that you could not attend the meeting today and I hope that you were able to enjoy the day with your family :) We are working on some ideas for new ways to hold these meetings on the forums. This way the meetings can last for several days if needed so that more people can stop by to share their thoughts. If you have any suggestions to help us out here that would be great! I would also like to take a minute to talk about the "roadmap" situation with you as I know it has been the center of a lot of anger lately. I must agree that it was not the best idea to put my ideas in my introduction news, but these ideas where meant only for concideration before the developer meeting. I had the chance to talk with several people on the team today including Sjah who had written a very good article several days ago. We all decided that Envolution needs a roadmap, and that the current one is probably not the best one. *By current roadmap I mean the original roadmap, I have looked for a roadmap from the last 6 months but I haven't found one.* His idea was to create two documents, one would be the community vision that addresses the non technical(non coding) aspects and needs, the other would be a technical roadmap to achieve that vision. We will be asking the community for their input and to tell us what they need from our system, and then the developers will gather to discuss how these goals will be met. Before we can do any of that though we must get our Staff organized and all of the communities on the same page. I will be attempting to contact all the members of the current staff, but for those of you I do not contact please get ahold of me because I do not mean to forget anybody. I hope this clears some things up with you, if not please feel free to talk to me directly as I wish to work things out. Thanks, Eric Barr (a.k.a. ApathyBoy) Project Manager - Envolution PS. I also wish for all flame wars and anger to end here. If anybody has comments or concerns or does not understand something that might have happened or doesn't agree with something I said please just ask me about it. We will work through and discuss all matters openly. Thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Köhler" <s.k...@pr...> To: <env...@li...> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 8:25 PM Subject: [Envolution-devel] the future of eNvolution? @Zoom: Now public on dev-list, because you don't answer my last email. Tell me please, where TiMax' article contains "factual inaccuracies and fasle statements." What he said is the truth. A bit history: TiMax ask in the dev-list if someone can be Lead Developer, no answer. Some days later he ask again. Then I explained that I will do the job. After that TiMax informed the staff and the comunity about my new function. So I'm Lead Developer of eNvolution. And all agreed. Same with SupportManager and DocManager positions. And at this time there came no veto from. I think I don't need to talk about the roadmap again. Because our development which we starts had nothing to do with the old roadmap. We create things and modified parts of the code to make eNvo safer, faster and more professional, with some new features and functions. And that all, because the community ask for. This was (if you take a look on the roadmap) not the right way. But if this all happens - no veto from you, again. So for me, all founders accept our work and we do the right things. This seems to be over. You want to take eNvolution. But not with the staff members who entered eNvolution at TiMax era. You want to place new members on official functions. And you ask only one time for Project Manager. And then after 2 hours apathyboy was the new project manager. Nice, very nice. All following steps (transfering data, downtime, basic installation,etc.), the article and all bad other things that happend the last days, you managed alone without the staff members. This was not professional. Sorry. I told you more then 3 times, that I can help you with all the problems you rolled in. All you say was "Yes I need much help" but without saying where and what. As I can see now on eNvolution.com I am gradated. But I don't know. Why? What are the results of chat meeting today? I don't know. Why? And you know why I can't visit meeting today. I told it to all as comment. And Zoom, after our private mails where we discuss something internally (remember I told you that this should not be part of a public mailing list or as a comment of an article - I think that was fair), I got no answers or infos. The only result of this mailing was, that you delete me from LeadDeveloper List and I'm normal member now. That is your right. Nothing to say. But it would be nice if you can inform me about this step, isn't it? And then this mail on this list of AK (who is it?) who talk about the roadmap and we have no rights to change that. That's enough. One of our rule was to inform the community about new things are planned or new staff members are entered (note: Welcome new member as a "profile"). And AK seems to be a new staff member. You break our rules not we. And this rules were born since our reorganisation and restructure phase. But you don't ask us what is new and what you have to consider. Ok. If I'm no longer Lead Developer then there is no needing for you to tell me details. I don't want to know it. I'm normal member of eNvo.com And I would be only Webadmin of envolution.de Nothing else. Ok. Can you tell me please, as it continues now? Stefan aka WindMeUp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Kindley" <sc...@ki...> To: "Evolution-Dev-List" <env...@li...> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 1:10 AM Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] Leaving eNvolution > On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 17:06, TiMax wrote: > > Sorry wrong thread > > I submited this news in envolution.com, please to add it in home page, thanks > > > > TiMax > > > > -------------------------- > > > > This short news is just to comunicate that I decided to go out from the active developement of eNvolution and definitively from the eNvolution project. > > I'm sorry to see that this eNvolution is not the one on with me and all the staff were working on... our vision discussed and approved is now cancelled... there wasn't respect of me, the staff and the all management... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and Support Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were working on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than this all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were immediately declassed. > > > > I'm sorry at this point eNvolution is not more the one on which I hardly worked. > > > > I prefer to keep on my ideas and vision in my MaxDev project, working to expand and improve eNvolution, PostNuke, Oscommerce and many other softwares, to promote the Open Source even with commercial purposes, helped on this by all the international Staff members in full agreement and with real passion. > > > > I thank everybody sustained me with comments, mail, messages, etc. > > > > Regarding the eNvolution.it nothing is changed it will remain the Italian support site with all the community growth around it. > > > > TiMax > > MaxDev Staff > > www.maxdev.com > > > > I knew you were going to pull this Max. > > I am not going to publish this article when it contains factual > inaccuracies and fasle statements. > > You were notified well in advance of a meeting and YOU chose not to > attend. So don't give me the crap about your vision being cancelled, > changed or whatever. Envolution is larger than you and you didn't > respect Envoolution enough to grace us with your presence. > > Resubmit news that is factual and Ill publish it...other than that have > a great day! > > Zoom > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Envolution-devel mailing list > Env...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 _______________________________________________ Envolution-devel mailing list Env...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel |
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From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-03 04:04:20
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On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 21:53:23 -0500, Eric Barr wrote: >=A0 =A0 I must >=A0 =A0agree that it was not the best idea to put my ideas in my introduction= news, >=A0 =A0but these ideas where meant only for concideration before the developer >=A0 =A0meeting Nice to read that AP, but sorry you have understand that after lot of days= of flames .... @Zoom i forgot to tell you that in Italian staff we are 34 dev's and 18 beta= tester and not a couple of Italians Max |
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From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-03 04:21:45
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On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 23:03, TiMax wrote: > @Zoom i forgot to tell you that in Italian staff we are 34 dev's and 18 beta tester and not a couple of Italians > > Max > Perhaps you should re-read what I said cause I said only a couple Italians showed up to the meeting. YOu can have a staff of 5000 Italian developers...doesn't matter cause only two showed up! You should also know this Max...and Im sure you'll need to finds someone to translate it for you.....Envolution doesn't have Italian staff, German staff, Russian staff, Indiana staff, Mexican staff, English staff, Chinese staff....we only have staff members. You insistance on classifying everyone by their national origin is part of the problem..a problem you created by stratifying the community. I don't have Italian friends, Polish friends, English friends...etc. I only have friends. It doesn't matter to me what their national origin is to me. So in my eyes there is no need to separate the community based on culture or nationality. Zoom |
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From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-03 04:36:20
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On 02 Aug 2003 23:21:10 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: >=A0 =A0I don't have Italian friends, Polish friends, English friends...etc. I >=A0 =A0only have friends. It doesn't matter to me what their national origin= is >=A0 =A0to me. So in my eyes there is no need to separate the community based= on >=A0 =A0culture or nationality Sorry for you Zoom i have Polish, French, German, Italian, Canadian friends= and i m very happy of that, i respect all history, habitudes, and all= religions, but i think is important also to remark differences, because if= you are able to valorize all differences you are also able to receive all= advantages each difference can give you. So i m Italian but i m in Canada now, i m different from others Canadian= because i talk poor French language and i m Italian but my Canadian friends= appreciate me also because i m Italian and different and me also. i don't know for you but for me each differences is very great and important= for me. So for me their national origin is for me very important, and i m happy when= i can learn about different origin from me. Maybe that is the differences Zoom, but i don't know if you can understand. TiMax |
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From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-03 04:55:11
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On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 23:35, TiMax wrote: > On 02 Aug 2003 23:21:10 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: > > I don't have Italian friends, Polish friends, English friends...etc. I > > only have friends. It doesn't matter to me what their national origin is > > to me. So in my eyes there is no need to separate the community based on > > culture or nationality > > Sorry for you Zoom i have Polish, French, German, Italian, Canadian friends and i m very happy of that, Sorry I juts have friends. Don't matter to me where they are from. > i respect all history, habitudes, and all religions, As do I. > but i think is important also to remark differences, because if you are able to valorize all differences you are also able to receive all advantages each difference can give you. > I can appriciate culture Max...even culture different than my own. You focus on their differences Max...I focus on our commonalities instead. You do what you wish..but legally speaking one cannot consider national origin as a qualifying trait for anything. To do so is basis for discrimination. That is true in the US and in Canada...I have no idea about Italy or other countries. > So i m Italian but i m in Canada now, i m different from others Canadian because i talk poor French language and i m Italian but my Canadian friends appreciate me also because i m Italian and different and me also. > Again you conentrate on people differences I concetrate on commonalities. Things we share in common instead! > i don't know for you but for me each differences is very great and important for me. > The things we have in common are more important than our differecnes in my opinion. > So for me their national origin is for me very important, and i m happy when i can learn about different origin from me. > I don't care where you come from..Envolution welcomes you regardless of natinal origin. I don't classify people based on color, creed, national origin, sex, eye color, hair color, weight, height, or marital status. > Maybe that is the differences Zoom, but i don't know if you can understand. > > TiMax > Or maybe you don't understand Max. Of course I don't think you would ever accept that either. Zoom |
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From: Sjahrazad A. <sja...@ba...> - 2003-08-03 08:31:20
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On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 21:53:23 -0500, Eric Barr wrote > [...] > This is no longer the "TiMax" era, but it is also not the beginning > of the "ApathyBoy" era either. The problem here is that this project > is not about any one person, but about the entire community.[...] This is good news Eric. I posted my suggestions before read this email. It seems you already do your homework well:) Good luck, sjah |
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From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-03 03:23:32
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On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 20:25, Stefan K=C3=B6hler wrote: > @Zoom: > Now public on dev-list, because you don't answer my last email. > Tell me please, where TiMax' article contains "factual inaccuracies and > fasle statements." > What he said is the truth. >=20 <quote> ... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and Support Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were working on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than this all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were immediately declassed. <end quote> That is the factually inaccurate information! The entire community, not just those who were given a title by Max, we invited to attend the meeting and contribute their thoughts and ideas...I'm sorry but decsions were made base don those who where thoughtful enough to show up. Guess who wasn't there besides you...Yeah thats right Max didn't show up either! So his claims/opinion that nobody other then English speakers were considered is bullshit...plain old bullshit. In fact there were non-english speakers there. Off the top of my head I can recall a Russian, a couple of Italians, and one from Mayalsia....so claiming that non-English speakers were immediatley "declassed" is an outrageous lie!=20 This may very well be Max's opinion, but it certainly isn't fact! Zoom |
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From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-03 03:58:08
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Do you have read all comments in italian language ? and in french language ?= and in german language ? i think not ...... Anyway yes, that is my opinions and you MUST respect that, so if you don't= want to put my news online no problem for me, maybe for other people yes= ... And you see also apathyboy agree is not a good idea to put this news online,= and that is the problem, when AP put online his news he don't talk with= nobody, he don't hear nobody WindMeUp, Capretta, Sjah other developers ..= nobody Only today maybe after some days news are online ...... Zoom so if you have good consideration of other languages can you tell me= wath Italian, French and German comments tell you in respective support= sites and in envoltuion.com site ? If you don't understand his language do you have ask someone to translate= you wath they say ? For example i don't understand German language but i found always someone to= translate me what they say or to put news in german language. Oups ...... in the top of your minds you have forgot to remember German= dev's(and they are a lot), Spanish dev's, Polish dev's, Belgium, Moroc,= Canada etc etc... but i m sure nobody are declassed .. they be simplement= missed ......:)) And tell me Zoom, who give you right of delete news in envolution.com ? I remember that you don't are PM and anyway nobody hear responsable of= envolution.com site ..... he is Sjah. TiMax On 02 Aug 2003 22:22:59 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: >=A0 =A0On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 20:25, Stefan K=C3=B6hler wrote: >=A0 =A0>=A0@Zoom: >=A0 =A0>=A0Now public on dev-list, because you don't answer my last email. >=A0 =A0>=A0Tell me please, where TiMax' article contains "factual inaccuracies= and >=A0 =A0>=A0fasle statements." >=A0 =A0>=A0What he said is the truth. > > >=A0 =A0<quote> >=A0 =A0... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and Support >=A0 =A0Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were working >=A0 =A0on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than= this >=A0 =A0all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were >=A0 =A0immediately declassed. >=A0 =A0<end quote> > >=A0 =A0That is the factually inaccurate information! The entire community, not >=A0 =A0just those who were given a title by Max, we invited to attend the >=A0 =A0meeting and contribute their thoughts and ideas...I'm sorry but= decsions >=A0 =A0were made base don those who where thoughtful enough to show up. Guess >=A0 =A0who wasn't there besides you...Yeah thats right Max didn't show up >=A0 =A0either! So his claims/opinion that nobody other then English speakers >=A0 =A0were considered is bullshit...plain old bullshit. In fact there were >=A0 =A0non-english speakers there. Off the top of my head I can recall a >=A0 =A0Russian, a couple of Italians, and one from Mayalsia....so claiming= that >=A0 =A0non-English speakers were immediatley "declassed" is an outrageous lie! > >=A0 =A0This may very well be Max's opinion, but it certainly isn't fact! > >=A0 =A0Zoom > > >=A0 =A0------------------------------------------------------- >=A0 =A0This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including >=A0 =A0Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. >=A0 =A0Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. >=A0= =A0http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/0= 1 >=A0 =A0_______________________________________________ >=A0 =A0Envolution-devel mailing list >=A0 =A0E...@li... >=A0 =A0https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel > >=A0 =A0__________ NOD32 1.471 (20030731) Information __________ > >=A0 =A0This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. >=A0 =A0http://www.nod32.com |
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From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-03 04:40:35
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On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 22:57, TiMax wrote: > Do you have read all comments in italian language ? and in french language ? and in german language ? i think not ...... > I don't read every comment in the English language either, so whats your point? > Anyway yes, that is my opinions and you MUST respect that, so if you don't want to put my news online no problem for me, maybe for other people yes ... > I will not put any content on the website that comatains obvious false statements for anyone. > And you see also apathyboy agree is not a good idea to put this news online, and that is the problem, when AP put online his news he don't talk with nobody, he don't hear nobody WindMeUp, Capretta, Sjah other developers .. nobody > Only today maybe after some days news are online ...... > He talked with everyone who botherd to show up to the planned organizational meeting...you know the one YOU didn't show up for. AP posted his thoughts abouit the roadmap so that people could think about it and bring their questions inputs and concerns to the community during the meeting. It;s that simple. You didn't consult or talk to the community when you started a closed development email list only for certain envolution developers. Envolution was founded on the principles that development would always remain open. But took it upon yourself to ignore that and your agreement with the other three founders about keeping Envolution development open to everyone. I aim to keep Envolution open to all...not just your staff. If you would like to discuss this more let me know and I'll post your emails for all to see for themsleves. > Zoom so if you have good consideration of other languages can you tell me wath Italian, French and German comments tell you in respective support sites and in envoltuion.com site ? > Personally Max I know you have been busy stirring up trouble by telling lies and making misrepresentations based on your own perspectives and opinions..they have nothing to do with facts. > If you don't understand his language do you have ask someone to translate you wath they say ? > Yes I do...or I use a translation tool to at least get an idea of what was said. > For example i don't understand German language but i found always someone to translate me what they say or to put news in german language. > And your point is what? When AP made this posting on envolution.com there was an expectation that the international sites have at least one person who would translate and post to their support site. But unfortunatley instead of asking fro clarifications and explaination YOU went on a rampage and started spreading your FUD. Well now there will be guidelines foe all International support sites in the network on handling information and translations. And because YOU didnt come up with the idea I am sure many support site manager will not want to continue being an Official support site. Thats OK too. There will be replacements if it comes to that. > Oups ...... in the top of your minds you have forgot to remember German dev's(and they are a lot), Spanish dev's, Polish dev's, Belgium, Moroc, Canada etc etc... but i m sure nobody are declassed .. they be simplement missed ......:)) > You have no idea whats on the top of our minds...had you attended the meeting perhaps you would have. But unless you have a crystal ball you are only speculating. > And tell me Zoom, who give you right of delete news in envolution.com ? OK what news did I delete? I havn't deleted anything. If you are going to make accusations then at least be man enough to be specific. > I remember that you don't are PM and anyway nobody hear responsable of envolution.com site ..... he is Sjah. > > TiMax > > Are you speaking for Sjah? As far as I know Sjah can speak for himself. He attended the meeting I believe. You didn't. Responsibilty for the envolution website, DNS, and domains are my responsibility. I pay for the hosting and provide the DNS etc. I didn't ask you to quit..and I didn't ask you to give up those responsibilities...you did it on your own and in order to ensure Envolution stays totally open development I asked you to transfer thoese responsibilities to me. You agreed and did just that. So get over it already Max. Zoom |
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From: TiMax <ma...@em...> - 2003-08-03 04:53:48
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Thanks for all your answers, that is all i want TiMax On 02 Aug 2003 23:40:03 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote: >=A0 =A0On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 22:57, TiMax wrote: >=A0 =A0>=A0Do you have read all comments in italian language ? and in french= language ? =A0and in german language ? i think not ...... >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0I don't read every comment in the English language either, so whats= your >=A0 =A0point? > >=A0 =A0>=A0Anyway yes, that is my opinions and you MUST respect that, =A0so if you= don't want to put my news online no problem for me, maybe for other people= yes ... >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0I will not put any content on the website that comatains obvious false >=A0 =A0statements for anyone. > >=A0 =A0>=A0And you see also apathyboy agree is not a good idea to put this news= online, and that is the problem, =A0when AP put online his news he don't talk= with nobody, he don't hear nobody =A0WindMeUp, Capretta, Sjah other= developers .. nobody >=A0 =A0>=A0Only today maybe after some days news are online ...... >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0He talked with everyone who botherd to show up to the planned >=A0 =A0organizational meeting...you know the one YOU didn't show up for. AP >=A0 =A0posted his thoughts abouit the roadmap so that people could think about >=A0 =A0it and bring their questions inputs and concerns to the community= during >=A0 =A0the meeting. It;s that simple. > >=A0 =A0You didn't consult or talk to the community when you started a closed >=A0 =A0development email list only for certain envolution developers. >=A0 =A0Envolution was founded on the principles that development would always >=A0 =A0remain open. But took it upon yourself to ignore that and your= agreement >=A0 =A0with the other three founders about keeping Envolution development open >=A0 =A0to everyone. I aim to keep Envolution open to all...not just your= staff. > >=A0 =A0If you would like to discuss this more let me know and I'll post your >=A0 =A0emails for all to see for themsleves. > > >=A0 =A0>=A0Zoom so if you have good consideration of other languages can you tell= me wath Italian, French and German comments tell you in respective support= sites and in envoltuion.com site ? >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0Personally Max I know you have been busy stirring up trouble by telling >=A0 =A0lies and making misrepresentations based on your own perspectives and >=A0 =A0opinions..they have nothing to do with facts. > >=A0 =A0>=A0If you don't understand his language do you have ask someone to= translate you wath they say ? >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0Yes I do...or I use a translation tool to at least get an idea of what >=A0 =A0was said. > >=A0 =A0>=A0For example i don't understand German language but i found always= someone to translate me what they say or to put news in german language. >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0And your point is what? When AP made this posting on envolution.com >=A0 =A0there was an expectation that the international sites have at least one >=A0 =A0person who would translate and post to their support site. But >=A0 =A0unfortunatley instead of asking fro clarifications and explaination YOU >=A0 =A0went on a rampage and started spreading your FUD. > >=A0 =A0Well now there will be guidelines foe all International support sites= in >=A0 =A0the network on handling information and translations. And because YOU >=A0 =A0didnt come up with the idea I am sure many support site manager will= not >=A0 =A0want to continue being an Official support site. Thats OK too. There >=A0 =A0will be replacements if it comes to that. > >=A0 =A0>=A0Oups ...... in the top of your minds you have forgot to remember= German dev's(and they are a lot), Spanish dev's, Polish dev's, Belgium,= Moroc, Canada etc etc... =A0but i m sure nobody are declassed .. they be= simplement missed ......:)) >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0You have no idea whats on the top of our minds...had you attended the >=A0 =A0meeting perhaps you would have. But unless you have a crystal ball you >=A0 =A0are only speculating. > >=A0 =A0>=A0And tell me Zoom, who give you right of delete news in envolution.com= ? > >=A0 =A0OK what news did I delete? I havn't deleted anything. If you are going >=A0 =A0to make accusations then at least be man enough to be specific. > >=A0 =A0>=A0I remember that you don't are PM and anyway nobody hear responsable of= envolution.com site ..... he is Sjah. >=A0 =A0> >=A0 =A0>=A0TiMax >=A0 =A0> > >=A0 =A0Are you speaking for Sjah? As far as I know Sjah can speak for himself. >=A0 =A0He attended the meeting I believe. You didn't. > >=A0 =A0Responsibilty for the envolution website, DNS, and domains are my >=A0 =A0responsibility. I pay for the hosting and provide the DNS etc. I didn't >=A0 =A0ask you to quit..and I didn't ask you to give up those >=A0 =A0responsibilities...you did it on your own and in order to ensure >=A0 =A0Envolution stays totally open development I asked you to transfer= thoese >=A0 =A0responsibilities to me. You agreed and did just that. So get over it >=A0 =A0already Max. > >=A0 =A0Zoom > > >=A0 =A0------------------------------------------------------- >=A0 =A0This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including >=A0 =A0Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. >=A0 =A0Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. >=A0= =A0http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/0= 1 >=A0 =A0_______________________________________________ >=A0 =A0Envolution-devel mailing list >=A0 =A0E...@li... >=A0 =A0https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel > >=A0 =A0__________ NOD32 1.471 (20030731) Information __________ > >=A0 =A0This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. >=A0 =A0http://www.nod32.com |
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From: Romeo B. <ro...@op...> - 2003-08-03 15:00:40
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At 22.22 02/08/03 -0500, you wrote: ><quote> >... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and Support >Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were working >on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than this >all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were >immediately declassed. ><end quote> > >That is the factually inaccurate information! The entire community, not >just those who were given a title by Max, we invited to attend the >meeting and contribute their thoughts and ideas... And what about italian admin support (myself ;-) ) ? And what about http://bug.envolution.com and http://bug.envolution.it, that are on my machine? Nobody ask for them, nobody seems to be interested fot them.. Can you dimostrate the contrary? To avoid this and other mistakes I hope you soon will write down a clear roadmap and a clear document for responsabilities in the project administration and development... I want to remember you that in the last chat, nobody answer me about the roadmap of envo in the next 3+ months. Romeo aka cino |
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From: Scott K. <sc...@ki...> - 2003-08-03 16:52:43
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On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 10:00, Romeo Bandinelli wrote: > At 22.22 02/08/03 -0500, you wrote: > ><quote> > >... nobody has considered our Lead Developer, Doc Manager, and Support > >Manager... nobody asked all the staff members on what they were working > >on, which goals they reached, what they thinked etc. etc. more than this > >all non English people, mainly Italian, French and German were > >immediately declassed. > ><end quote> > > > >That is the factually inaccurate information! The entire community, not > >just those who were given a title by Max, we invited to attend the > >meeting and contribute their thoughts and ideas... > > > And what about italian admin support (myself ;-) ) ? You were invited to the meeting and I believe you attended did you not? > And what about http://bug.envolution.com and http://bug.envolution.it, that > are on my machine? What about them? You have to understand I do not have ESP and I cannot take care of issues that nobody communicates to me. Max never once mentioned tansferring the envolution.it domain and in fact I assumed he would keep it and run the Italian International website. As for bug.envolution.com that can be redirected very easily. Except no one has given me a FQDN or IP address to forward it to! All of these people have been emailed about international sites and resources. Max did not include you name on the list he provided, instead he included his own name. Maroc E-mail: abd...@ya... RDS envolution belgium E-mail: web...@en... Env Singapore asiaone E-mail: as...@as... Malaysia asruls E-mail: as...@ma... Env Indonesian sjah E-mail: sja...@Ba... Env Australia suleman E-mail: sul...@bi... Envo polish tinta E-mail: ti...@au... Envo spanish Nuclei E-mail: nu...@en... Envo italy TiMax E-mail: ti...@en... Envo France pantosite philipc E-Mail : anu...@ho... Envo Germany WindMeUp Gatonero E-mail: s.k...@pr... > Nobody ask for them, nobody seems to be interested fot them.. > Can you dimostrate the contrary? > Yes I just did. I did ask Max for a full list of Internation Support Site Managers and the above list is what he sent. Also I have correspondance from Max about which domains would be tansferring and I can forward you that email as well if you still wish to blame someone for omitting bug.envolution.com. > To avoid this and other mistakes I hope you soon will write down a clear > roadmap and a clear document for responsabilities in the project > administration and development... I want to remember you that in the last > chat, nobody answer me about the roadmap of envo in the next 3+ months. > > Romeo aka cino > The only published roadmap that Envolution has ever had is here: http://www.envolution.com/index.php?module=subjects&func=listpages&subid=2 If Max came up with a new one he sure didn't let the community know and he sure didn't publish it for all to see. Responsibilities are outlined here...and have been since the beginning of Envoltuion: http://www.envolution.com/index.php?module=subjects&func=viewpage&pageid=10 These guidelines are subject to change and frankly probably will. But complaining that they dont exist is simply an excercise in laziness. Terms of Use are also outlined here: http://www.envolution.com/index.php?name=Legal Zoom |
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