Re: [E-devel] (Re)moving stuff from SVN without author knowledge

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Well, yes. First of all he has admin access to the server, so he literally
has this kind of power :P Second of all, if we agree that things in svn
represent e (which I think is a common conception) he should have, and
actually has this kind of power. Although he currently may not care, it can
change in the future and then he will have this kind of power.

Yes, maintainers of parts may have power over other devs, but not over the e
spirit.

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Iván Briano (Sachiel)
<sac...@gm...>wrote:

> 2011/3/11 Tom Hacohen <to...@st...>:
> > Not even slightly similar. He doesn't have this kind of power because he
> is
> > the founder of e, he has this kind of power because he is the project
> > leader.
> >
>
> So he has that kind of power over EVERYTHING in svn? Even stuff he
> never touched before or he publicly says he doesn't use or care about and
> they are their own authors responsabilities?
>
> > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 6:40 PM, uni...@gm... <
> uni...@gm...>wrote:
> >
> >> The same way raster has final say with e and efl's scope and direction
> and
> >> timelines.
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my Cellular South HTC Desire
> >>
> >> ----- Reply message -----
> >> From: "Tom Hacohen" <to...@st...>
> >> Date: Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:26 am
> >> Subject: [E-devel] (Re)moving stuff from SVN without author knowledge
> >> To: "uni...@gm..." <uni...@gm...>
> >> Cc: "Nicolas Aguirre" <agu...@gm...>, "Leif Middelschulte"
> <
> >> lei...@gm...>, <
> enl...@li...>,
> >> "Andreas Volz" <li...@br...>
> >>
> >>
> >> I disagree. By putting stuff into e's svn you are giving up on your
> right
> >> to
> >> veto. This svn is for e's devs and community, not for el presidente. As
> I
> >> said, all the apps in e should follow the guidelines and spirits. If
> those
> >> are debatable the ML should be consulted first, not the creator.
> >>
> >> As I said in IRC:
> >>
> >> Whoever wants to do big changes should send to the ML before, not to the
> >> initial creator. By committing code to e's svn you are giving up this
> veto.
> >> If someone wants this kind of power he should use sourceforge, not e's
> svn.
> >> :P
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 6:14 PM, uni...@gm... <
> uni...@gm...
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > Just to clear things up, Ephoto is not a "pet or personal" project and
> >> this
> >> > thread should not be questioning ephoto. It is meant for the community
> >> and
> >> > to be developed by the community. It wouldn't be where it is today
> >> without
> >> > contributions from others including Gustavo, even though he will
> publicly
> >> > call it a pos and barely functional on a public list when he hasn't
> even
> >> > used it. Okay I'm done with that now.
> >> >
> >> > I agree there needs to be guidelines and I think its important to note
> >> that
> >> > the original developer is the president in the development. Licensing,
> >> > releasing, and things of that nature should be handled by this
> >> "president".
> >> > Also when modifications happen that have opposing sides, the
> "presidents"
> >> > word goes. Finally if there is a rewrite, change in scope, or anything
> >> > extremely significant of the such, the "presidents" permission needs
> to
> >> be
> >> > obtained.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my Cellular South HTC Desire
> >> >
> >> > ----- Reply message -----
> >> > From: "Tom Hacohen" <to...@st...>
> >> > Date: Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:00 am
> >> >
> >> > Subject: [E-devel] (Re)moving stuff from SVN without author knowledge
> >> > To: "Nicolas Aguirre" <agu...@gm...>
> >> > Cc: "Leif Middelschulte" <lei...@gm...>, "
> >> > uni...@gm..." <uni...@gm...>, <
> >> > enl...@li...>, "Andreas Volz" <
> >> > li...@br...>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yep, enna does not belong to the e svn (although it's obviously
> AWESOME).
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Nicolas Aguirre
> >> > <agu...@gm...>wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > 2011/3/11 Tom Hacohen <to...@st...>:
> >> > > > I completely agree. I also don't want to step in an argument I
> know
> >> > > nothing
> >> > > > about, but I do agree with Gustavo. In my pov e's svn is for e
> >> > > applications.
> >> > > > It's not sourceforge that stores open source projects, everything
> in
> >> > the
> >> > > svn
> >> > > > is made for e and thus should follow whatever guidelines/spirit e
> may
> >> > > have.
> >> > > > I don't think svn is a good place for *personal* pet projects
> (maybe
> >> in
> >> > > your
> >> > > > own dev dir?) because everything in svn is seen by other people as
> >> > > something
> >> > > > developed and supported by the e team, and thus, all the e team
> >> should
> >> > be
> >> > > > able to adjust, modify and even rewrite so it'll follow e's spirit
> >> the
> >> > > > direction.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Unrelated note: I really love edje_player, been using it for ages
> >> now.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Tom.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Leif Middelschulte <
> >> > > > lei...@gm...> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> I don't want to jump in into anything personal.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> I just wanted to support Gustavo on the way he thought. I would
> have
> >> > > >> thought the same way. By saying so, I don't want to say: "You
> guys
> >> > > >> were wrong!", but "As we can see we need to solve this issue and
> >> come
> >> > > >> up with a rule.".
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Therefore, I'll start a thread about policy. I'll use the outcome
> to
> >> > > >> put an article into trac/wiki about how stuff in e.svn.org is to
> be
> >> > > >> treated so we (hopefully) never have to argue about such things
> and
> >> > > >> can focus on development as a community.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> BR,
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Leif
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> 2011/3/11 uni...@gm... <uni...@gm...>:
> >> > > >> > I don't know what has got in to you lately, but I was not
> talking
> >> > > about
> >> > > >> or referring to ephoto. Get off of your high horse and stop
> taking
> >> > > offense
> >> > > >> to everything that gets said even when it has nothing to do with
> >> you.
> >> > >  For
> >> > > >> your information ephoto is widely used and the general consensus
> in
> >> > the
> >> > > e
> >> > > >> world is that elm is the problem and lacks terribly in design and
> >> > > >> implementation. There is a whole lot more that I want to say and
> >> could
> >> > > say
> >> > > >> as you took to personally insulting me, but I'm not going to drop
> to
> >> > > that
> >> > > >> level.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > Sent from my Cellular South HTC Desire
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > ----- Reply message -----
> >> > > >> > From: "Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri" <bar...@pr...>
> >> > > >> > Date: Fri, Mar 11, 2011 8:34 am
> >> > > >> > Subject: [E-devel] (Re)moving stuff from SVN without author
> >> > knowledge
> >> > > >> > To: "uni...@gm..." <uni...@gm...>
> >> > > >> > Cc: "Andreas Volz" <li...@br...>, <
> >> > > >> enl...@li...>
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 8:08 PM, uni...@gm...
> >> > > >> > <uni...@gm...> wrote:
> >> > > >> >> I think you make a very good point Andreas. While the other
> side
> >> > may
> >> > > >> argue that it is in public subversion and is open source code, at
> >> the
> >> > > same
> >> > > >> time the project still has an author with an idea and scope for
> the
> >> > > project.
> >> > > >> I think its rude to change the code of ones project and even the
> >> scope
> >> > > of it
> >> > > >> without any knowledge of the author. This has been happening to a
> >> lot
> >> > of
> >> > > >> authors and projects over the past year or so maybe a little
> more.
> >> To
> >> > > all
> >> > > >> developers: get to know you're fellow developers!!! Communicate
> with
> >> > > them!
> >> > > >> Communication is a good thing. I promise.
> >> > > >> >>
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > Hi okra, here I have to disagree a bit. Or at least explain why
> >> > these
> >> > > >> > things happened to you and ephoto:
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> >    1. I understood Ephoto was an E project, not a personal
> project
> >> > > >> > (as Andreas' PROTO/edje-player). Similarly that I don't go ask
> >> > Raster
> >> > > >> > every change I did to Evas, Ecore, Edje or E itself, I did not
> >> feel
> >> > > >> > like asking permission to change it. SORRY, later own I
> realized
> >> > > >> > (actually after being told by many) that Ephoto was your lovely
> >> > > >> > playground and <rant>although the name, most E people don't use
> it
> >> > to
> >> > > >> > see photos because it barely work.</rant>
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> >    2. You never grasped Elementary or other core components of
> >> EFL,
> >> > > >> > as you're not much into them. This reflected into the Nth
> rewrite
> >> of
> >> > > >> > Ephoto in Elementary being barely working. From basic things as
> >> > > >> > asynchronous listing of directories with eio to incremental
> >> sorting
> >> > > >> > with "insert ordered" means. You struggled with these and were
> not
> >> > > >> > going anywhere... partly because even Elementary lacked some
> >> > > >> > primitives in gengrid to do so, and you're not willing to do
> >> these,
> >> > > >> > instead opted to work around.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> >    3. In a worthless movement, I tried to create a common
> feeling
> >> > > >> > among EFL applications by introduction of recommended
> "application
> >> > > >> > layouts" bundled in Elementary's theme. This resulted into
> changes
> >> > to
> >> > > >> > Ephoto visual so it and other applications such as Eve, Enjoy
> and
> >> > > >> > Envision would look similar, with toolbars in the same place.
> It
> >> was
> >> > > >> > worthless as general consensus was that people should do
> whatever
> >> > they
> >> > > >> > want as it was their own software. This actually resulted into
> >> lack
> >> > of
> >> > > >> > motivation to work on our applications as no matter what amount
> of
> >> > > >> > work I did (even if I was allowed to do!) would not work as a
> it
> >> > would
> >> > > >> > never provide "EFL experience" because "EFL experience" never
> >> > existed,
> >> > > >> > it was dream I had but never existed in reality. Together with
> >> lack
> >> > of
> >> > > >> > time, I went back to KDE applications (if you need a
> >> recommendation:
> >> > > >> > gwenview, amarok, okular and dolphin are excellent
> applications).
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > Seems that all we do, and from feedback I got, all we SHOULD do
> is
> >> > > >> > create personal applications to fit our own needs, the way we
> like
> >> > > >> > them, veto other changes.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > After all this rant, sorry to change your pet project with
> stupid
> >> > > >> > dreams to have EFL applications. We're not ready to have such
> with
> >> > > >> > current mindset. Thank your for reminding me of such.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > --
> >> > > >> > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> >> > > >> > http://profusion.mobi embedded systems
> >> > > >> > --------------------------------------
> >> > > >> > MSN: bar...@gm...
> >> > > >> > Skype: gsbarbieri
> >> > > >> > Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > > >> > for your organization - today and in the future.
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> >> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > > >> > enlightenment-devel mailing list
> >> > > >> > enl...@li...
> >> > > >> >
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >> Colocation vs. Managed Hosting
> >> > > >> A question and answer guide to determining the best fit
> >> > > >> for your organization - today and in the future.
> >> > > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d
> >> > > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list
> >> > > >> enl...@li...
> >> > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Tom.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > Colocation vs. Managed Hosting
> >> > > > A question and answer guide to determining the best fit
> >> > > > for your organization - today and in the future.
> >> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list
> >> > > > enl...@li...
> >> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > It's why enna has been moved out of E SVN ! it was not the right
> place
> >> > > for a personal project.
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Nicolas Aguirre
> >> > > Mail: agu...@gm...
> >> > > Web: http://enna.geexbox.org
> >> > > Blog: http://dev.enlightenment.fr/~captainigloo/
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Tom.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tom.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tom.
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Colocation vs. Managed Hosting
> > A question and answer guide to determining the best fit
> > for your organization - today and in the future.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d
> > _______________________________________________
> > enlightenment-devel mailing list
> > enl...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> >
>

-- 
Tom.