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From: Thomas K. <Tho...@gm...> - 2005-07-21 23:00:20
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These days, what makes everybody who sees Mac OSX for the first time drop his jaw is a tool called "Exposé". With the stroke of a key, all currently open windows are scaled down and arranged in a non-overlapping way. This way, the user gets a perfect overview over all running application and by clicking on one of these "thumbnails" all windows are restored as before, just with clicked-on window on top. This is a pretty eye-candy alternative to task bars and similar stuff... but wait a minute! Did I just say "eye-candy"? Isn't that the magic word that makes everyone immediately think of our beloved window manager - The Enlightenment?! Yes it is... So here comes my question: although Max OSX' Exposé also has some other features - should it not be possible and straight-forward to build a similar functionality like the one described above into E17 with the many cool, superfast, highly optimized libraries at hand? And if so, would such a tool be a welcome feature for E17? (I mean, come on, Expose even starts with an E already... :-)) Opinions? -- 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f�r Mail, Message, More +++ |
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From: Thomas K. <Tho...@gm...> - 2005-07-21 23:00:10
|
These days, what makes everybody who sees Mac OSX for the first time drop his jaw is a tool called "Exposé". With the stroke of a key, all currently open windows are scaled down and arranged in a non-overlapping way. This way, the user gets a perfect overview over all running application and by clicking on one of these "thumbnails" all windows are restored as before, just with clicked-on window on top. This is a pretty eye-candy alternative to task bars and similar stuff... but wait a minute! Did I just say "eye-candy"? Isn't that the magic word that makes everyone immediately think of our beloved window manager - The Enlightenment?! Yes it is... So here comes my question: although Max OSX' Exposé also has some other features - should it not be possible and straight-forward to build a similar functionality like the one described above into E17 with the many cool, superfast, highly optimized libraries at hand? And if so, would such a tool be a welcome feature for E17? (I mean, come on, Expose even starts with an E already... :-)) Opinions? -- 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f�r Mail, Message, More +++ |
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From: Luke A. <gt...@ma...> - 2005-07-21 23:44:34
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Yeah it would be cool. I can't get skippy or kompose to work at all but I have seen them and they are pieces of crap compared to kompose. On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 01:00 +0200, Thomas Kleinbauer wrote: > These days, what makes everybody who sees Mac OSX for the first time dr= op > his jaw is a tool called "Expos=E9". With the stroke of a key, all curr= ently > open windows are scaled down and arranged in a non-overlapping way. Thi= s > way, the user gets a perfect overview over all running application and = by > clicking on one of these "thumbnails" all windows are restored as befor= e, > just with clicked-on window on top. This is a pretty eye-candy alternat= ive > to task bars and similar stuff... but wait a minute!=20 > Did I just say "eye-candy"? Isn't that the magic word that makes everyo= ne > immediately think of our beloved window manager - The Enlightenment?! Y= es it > is... > So here comes my question: although Max OSX' Expos=E9 also has some oth= er > features - should it not be possible and straight-forward to build a si= milar > functionality like the one described above into E17 with the many cool, > superfast, highly optimized libraries at hand? > And if so, would such a tool be a welcome feature for E17? (I mean, com= e on, > Expose even starts with an E already... :-)) >=20 > Opinions? >=20 --=20 Luke Albers Electrical Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology gt...@ma... |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-22 00:14:42
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Luke Albers said: > Yeah it would be cool. I can't get skippy or kompose to work > at all but > I have seen them and they are pieces of crap compared to > kompose. ^^^^^^^ expose??? > > On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 01:00 +0200, Thomas Kleinbauer wrote: >> These days, what makes everybody who sees Mac OSX for the >> first time drop >> his jaw is a tool called "Expos=E9". With the stroke of a key, >> all currently >> open windows are scaled down and arranged in a >> non-overlapping way. This >> way, the user gets a perfect overview over all running >> application and by >> clicking on one of these "thumbnails" all windows are >> restored as before, >> just with clicked-on window on top. This is a pretty >> eye-candy alternative >> to task bars and similar stuff... but wait a minute! >> Did I just say "eye-candy"? Isn't that the magic word that >> makes everyone >> immediately think of our beloved window manager - The >> Enlightenment?! Yes it >> is... >> So here comes my question: although Max OSX' Expos=E9 also has >> some other >> features - should it not be possible and straight-forward to >> build a similar >> functionality like the one described above into E17 with the >> many cool, >> superfast, highly optimized libraries at hand? >> And if so, would such a tool be a welcome feature for E17? (I >> mean, come on, >> Expose even starts with an E already... :-)) >> >> Opinions? >> > -- > Luke Albers > Electrical Engineering > Georgia Institute of Technology > gt...@ma... > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward > articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get > up to > speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77&alloc_id=16492&op=CCk > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > --=20 Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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From: Luke A. <gt...@ma...> - 2005-07-22 01:49:54
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i mean compared to expose On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 19:44 -0400, Luke Albers wrote: > Yeah it would be cool. I can't get skippy or kompose to work at all bu= t > I have seen them and they are pieces of crap compared to kompose. >=20 >=20 > On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 01:00 +0200, Thomas Kleinbauer wrote: > > These days, what makes everybody who sees Mac OSX for the first time = drop > > his jaw is a tool called "Expos=E9". With the stroke of a key, all cu= rrently > > open windows are scaled down and arranged in a non-overlapping way. T= his > > way, the user gets a perfect overview over all running application an= d by > > clicking on one of these "thumbnails" all windows are restored as bef= ore, > > just with clicked-on window on top. This is a pretty eye-candy altern= ative > > to task bars and similar stuff... but wait a minute!=20 > > Did I just say "eye-candy"? Isn't that the magic word that makes ever= yone > > immediately think of our beloved window manager - The Enlightenment?!= Yes it > > is... > > So here comes my question: although Max OSX' Expos=E9 also has some o= ther > > features - should it not be possible and straight-forward to build a = similar > > functionality like the one described above into E17 with the many coo= l, > > superfast, highly optimized libraries at hand? > > And if so, would such a tool be a welcome feature for E17? (I mean, c= ome on, > > Expose even starts with an E already... :-)) > >=20 > > Opinions? > >=20 --=20 Luke Albers Electrical Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology gt...@ma... |
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From: Thomas K. <Tho...@gm...> - 2005-07-22 14:05:56
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So, I really have no clue at all about the e17 internals, but I do have some programming experience and would be willing to participate in an effort to create something like Exposé for e17. But I think, somebody with a more profound insight into the libraries would be needed to lead such a project, therefore I'd like to post this official Call for Participation ====================== In order to implement a functionality similar to Max OSX' Exposé (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/), we are looking for people willing to contribute in any helpful way. In particular, the following positions are open ;-) - One or more project leader(s) Deeper knowledge of the e-libs would be a requirement, also the general management and organization of the project would be part of the task. - Worker bees People willing to contribute to the code, all different levels of experience welcome. - Testers Even if you don't feel ready to do some coding you may be a valuable help if you can take some time every once in a while to do code testing and write high quality feedback reports. It's not clear if this will eventually lead to a real (sub-)project, that depends vastly on the reactions to this call. Therefore, please spread this call around, but don't forget to point out that the primary coordination point - until an own infrastructure has been set up - is the "enlightenment user mailing list": http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=enlightenment-users -- 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f�r Mail, Message, More +++ |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-22 14:34:10
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> - Worker bees > > People willing to contribute to the code, all different > levels of > experience welcome. > Proud to share my C programming skills with E17 to work on this project as a working bee :D. Paulo Matos > - Testers > > Even if you don't feel ready to do some coding you may be a > valuable help > if you can take some time every once in a while to do code > testing and write > high quality feedback reports. > > It's not clear if this will eventually lead to a real > (sub-)project, that > depends vastly on the reactions to this call. Therefore, please > spread this > call around, but don't forget to point out that the primary > coordination > point - until an own infrastructure has been set up - is the > "enlightenment > user mailing list": > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=3Denlightenment-user= s > > -- > 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail > +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f=EF=BF=BDr Mail, Message, More +++ > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward > articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get > up to > speed, fast. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7477&alloc_id=3D16492&op=3Dclick > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > --=20 Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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From: Christian P. <cpe...@gm...> - 2005-07-22 14:40:23
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Cool idea, Thomas :) I'm not a C developer, but i would be willing to become a tester and (try to) write "high quality feedback reports". Cause something like expose is the only thing i'm missing in the actual dr17 development stage (not that it is absolutely needed, but it would be a timesaver in a lot of situations) Greets, Christian Pedaschus PS. Just read the message from Christian Engels and i think, that this should be no problem. As an Idea: The windows don't need to be refreshed while showing them in epose (would be nice, but is not needed for the functionality) , so it would(?) be enough, to just take a screenshot of the window, resize and display it. no need for e to change font-sizes or take care of the layout 'inside' the window. perhaps i missed something in expose (never used it), but i guess that should be working, or? Plz correct me if i'm wrong.. Thomas Kleinbauer wrote: >So, I really have no clue at all about the e17 internals, but I do have some >programming experience and would be willing to participate in an effort to >create something like Exposé for e17. But I think, somebody with a more >profound insight into the libraries would be needed to lead such a project, >therefore I'd like to post this official > >Call for Participation >====================== > >In order to implement a functionality similar to Max OSX' Exposé >(http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/), we are looking for people >willing to contribute in any helpful way. In particular, the following >positions are open ;-) > >- One or more project leader(s) > > Deeper knowledge of the e-libs would be a requirement, also the general >management and organization of the project would be part of the task. > >- Worker bees > > People willing to contribute to the code, all different levels of >experience welcome. > >- Testers > > Even if you don't feel ready to do some coding you may be a valuable help >if you can take some time every once in a while to do code testing and write >high quality feedback reports. > >It's not clear if this will eventually lead to a real (sub-)project, that >depends vastly on the reactions to this call. Therefore, please spread this >call around, but don't forget to point out that the primary coordination >point - until an own infrastructure has been set up - is the "enlightenment >user mailing list": >http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=enlightenment-users > > > |
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From: Christian E. <der...@gm...> - 2005-07-22 14:30:41
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Is a Expose possible? Because the Main feature of Expose is, that it knows the Content in the Window. E17 does not know. So you can't get the same Effect. What you can do is: -make all Windows smaller (that is different from only Render them smaller, the Content will change, a good example is a browser. Expose just renders is smaller, but E17 can only make the window smaller and so the text gets another format) - and order them in a way. So in my opinion it is really not that what you want. |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-22 14:38:14
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Christian Engels said: > Is a Expose possible? > Because the Main feature of Expose is, that it knows the > Content in the > Window. E17 does not know. So you can't get the same Effect. > What do you mean by Expos=E9 "knows" the content in the window? And why would a task switcher need that? Paulo Matos > What you can do is: > -make all Windows smaller (that is different from only Render > them smaller, > the Content will change, a good example is a browser. Expose > just renders is > smaller, but E17 can only make the window smaller and so the > text gets > another format) > - and order them in a way. > > So in my opinion it is really not that what you want. > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward > articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get > up to > speed, fast. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7477&alloc_id=3D16492&op=3Dclick > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > --=20 Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-22 14:46:47
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Christian Pedaschus said: > PS. Just read the message from Christian Engels and i think, > that this > should be no > problem. > As an Idea: The windows don't need to be refreshed while > showing them in > epose (would be nice, but is not needed for the functionality) > , so it > would(?) be enough, > to just take a screenshot of the window, resize and display it. > no need > for e to change > font-sizes or take care of the layout 'inside' the window. > perhaps i missed something in expose (never used it), but i > guess that > should be > working, or? Plz correct me if i'm wrong.. > At least for a first-version features I agree with Christian. > > > Thomas Kleinbauer wrote: > >>So, I really have no clue at all about the e17 internals, but >> I do have some >>programming experience and would be willing to participate in >> an effort to >>create something like Expos=E9 for e17. But I think, somebody >> with a more >>profound insight into the libraries would be needed to lead >> such a project, >>therefore I'd like to post this official >> >>Call for Participation >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >>In order to implement a functionality similar to Max OSX' >> Expos=E9 >>(http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/), we are looking >> for people >>willing to contribute in any helpful way. In particular, the >> following >>positions are open ;-) >> >>- One or more project leader(s) >> >> Deeper knowledge of the e-libs would be a requirement, also >> the general >>management and organization of the project would be part of >> the task. >> >>- Worker bees >> >> People willing to contribute to the code, all different >> levels of >>experience welcome. >> >>- Testers >> >> Even if you don't feel ready to do some coding you may be a >> valuable help >>if you can take some time every once in a while to do code >> testing and write >>high quality feedback reports. >> >>It's not clear if this will eventually lead to a real >> (sub-)project, that >>depends vastly on the reactions to this call. Therefore, >> please spread this >>call around, but don't forget to point out that the primary >> coordination >>point - until an own infrastructure has been set up - is the >> "enlightenment >>user mailing list": >>http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=3Denlightenment-user= s >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward > articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get > up to > speed, fast. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7477&alloc_id=3D16492&op=3Dclick > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > --=20 Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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From: Christian P. <cpe...@gm...> - 2005-07-22 15:22:26
|
Thx Paulo, but as said, it's just an idea, no solution.
And in the spirit of DR17 ('best code quality'), this surely would be a
real dirty hack, but on the other side it would be quite fast to
implement, i guess...
The best solution of course, would be, if E can resize the window on
it's on, without need for screenshots.
And if i understand the message on enlightenment.org, which says:
[snippet]
The EFL contains solutions for almost any graphical interface task, far
beyond just rendering images. EVAS provides a highly optimized canvas
library. Ecore provides a simple and modular abstraction interface and
advanced event management including timers. Etox provides a complex text
layout library complete with theme-able text stylization capabilities
(previously Estyle). EDB provides a compact database format for
intuitive and easy configuration management, including the storing of
binaries. EET provides an integrated and flexible container that ends
the traditions of providing themes in tarballs. Edje provides a
revolutionary library and tool set for /completely/ abstracting
application interfaces from their code, including a complex and flexible
method of designing interfaces. EWL provides a complete widget library
built on all the other components of the EFL. And more!
[/snippet]
my idea is a waste of already existing wonderful libraries ...
Because if the content of a window is fully themable, there also should
be the possibility to adjust the size of all elements inside the window,
at least i understand it this way... (?)
Rasterman (or someone else with the needed knowledge), plz show us the
right way to go :)
Greets, Christian Pedaschus
PS. Anyone else has probs reaching www.enlightenment.org? It's very
slow and often aborts connection ...? (could be on my side too, my isp
changed some things shortly)
Paulo Jorge de Oliveira Cantante de Matos wrote:
>Christian Pedaschus said:
>
>
>>PS. Just read the message from Christian Engels and i think,
>>that this
>>should be no
>>problem.
>>As an Idea: The windows don't need to be refreshed while
>>showing them in
>>epose (would be nice, but is not needed for the functionality)
>>, so it
>>would(?) be enough,
>>to just take a screenshot of the window, resize and display it.
>>no need
>>for e to change
>>font-sizes or take care of the layout 'inside' the window.
>>perhaps i missed something in expose (never used it), but i
>>guess that
>>should be
>>working, or? Plz correct me if i'm wrong..
>>
>>
>>
>
>At least for a first-version features I agree with Christian.
>
>
>
>>Thomas Kleinbauer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>So, I really have no clue at all about the e17 internals, but
>>>I do have some
>>>programming experience and would be willing to participate in
>>>an effort to
>>>create something like Exposé for e17. But I think, somebody
>>>with a more
>>>profound insight into the libraries would be needed to lead
>>>such a project,
>>>therefore I'd like to post this official
>>>
>>>Call for Participation
>>>======================
>>>
>>>In order to implement a functionality similar to Max OSX'
>>>Exposé
>>>(http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/), we are looking
>>>for people
>>>willing to contribute in any helpful way. In particular, the
>>>following
>>>positions are open ;-)
>>>
>>>- One or more project leader(s)
>>>
>>> Deeper knowledge of the e-libs would be a requirement, also
>>>the general
>>>management and organization of the project would be part of
>>>the task.
>>>
>>>- Worker bees
>>>
>>> People willing to contribute to the code, all different
>>>levels of
>>>experience welcome.
>>>
>>>- Testers
>>>
>>> Even if you don't feel ready to do some coding you may be a
>>>valuable help
>>>if you can take some time every once in a while to do code
>>>testing and write
>>>high quality feedback reports.
>>>
>>>It's not clear if this will eventually lead to a real
>>>(sub-)project, that
>>>depends vastly on the reactions to this call. Therefore,
>>>please spread this
>>>call around, but don't forget to point out that the primary
>>>coordination
>>>point - until an own infrastructure has been set up - is the
>>>"enlightenment
>>>user mailing list":
>>>http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=enlightenment-users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration
>>Strategies
>>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward
>>articles,
>>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get
>>up to
>>speed, fast.
>>http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click
>>_______________________________________________
>>enlightenment-users mailing list
>>enl...@li...
>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
|
|
From: Christian E. <der...@gm...> - 2005-07-22 16:53:55
|
As far as i know this is not possible. EFL can only control what EFL draws.
Everything in a Window is drawn by the app and it's libraries. Thats what i=
=20
mean with "E17 doesn't knwo what is in the window". It just know: "aha thi=
s=20
is the app firefox with this position..."
I am not a developer but i read a bit about X and how it works, but perhaps=
i=20
am wrong.
> Thx Paulo, but as said, it's just an idea, no solution.
> And in the spirit of DR17 ('best code quality'), this surely would be a
> real dirty hack, but on the other side it would be quite fast to
> implement, i guess...
>
> The best solution of course, would be, if E can resize the window on
> it's on, without need for screenshots.
> And if i understand the message on enlightenment.org, which says:
>
> [snippet]
> The EFL contains solutions for almost any graphical interface task, far
> beyond just rendering images. EVAS provides a highly optimized canvas
> library. Ecore provides a simple and modular abstraction interface and
> advanced event management including timers. Etox provides a complex text
> layout library complete with theme-able text stylization capabilities
> (previously Estyle). EDB provides a compact database format for
> intuitive and easy configuration management, including the storing of
> binaries. EET provides an integrated and flexible container that ends
> the traditions of providing themes in tarballs. Edje provides a
> revolutionary library and tool set for /completely/ abstracting
> application interfaces from their code, including a complex and flexible
> method of designing interfaces. EWL provides a complete widget library
> built on all the other components of the EFL. And more!
> [/snippet]
>
> my idea is a waste of already existing wonderful libraries ...
>
> Because if the content of a window is fully themable, there also should
> be the possibility to adjust the size of all elements inside the window,
> at least i understand it this way... (?)
> Rasterman (or someone else with the needed knowledge), plz show us the
> right way to go :)
>
> Greets, Christian Pedaschus
>
> PS. Anyone else has probs reaching www.enlightenment.org? It's very
> slow and often aborts connection ...? (could be on my side too, my isp
> changed some things shortly)
>
> Paulo Jorge de Oliveira Cantante de Matos wrote:
> >Christian Pedaschus said:
> >>PS. Just read the message from Christian Engels and i think,
> >>that this
> >>should be no
> >>problem.
> >>As an Idea: The windows don't need to be refreshed while
> >>showing them in
> >>epose (would be nice, but is not needed for the functionality)
> >>, so it
> >>would(?) be enough,
> >>to just take a screenshot of the window, resize and display it.
> >>no need
> >>for e to change
> >>font-sizes or take care of the layout 'inside' the window.
> >>perhaps i missed something in expose (never used it), but i
> >>guess that
> >>should be
> >>working, or? Plz correct me if i'm wrong..
> >
> >At least for a first-version features I agree with Christian.
> >
> >>Thomas Kleinbauer wrote:
> >>>So, I really have no clue at all about the e17 internals, but
> >>>I do have some
> >>>programming experience and would be willing to participate in
> >>>an effort to
> >>>create something like Expos=E9 for e17. But I think, somebody
> >>>with a more
> >>>profound insight into the libraries would be needed to lead
> >>>such a project,
> >>>therefore I'd like to post this official
> >>>
> >>>Call for Participation
> >>>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>
> >>>In order to implement a functionality similar to Max OSX'
> >>>Expos=E9
> >>>(http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/), we are looking
> >>>for people
> >>>willing to contribute in any helpful way. In particular, the
> >>>following
> >>>positions are open ;-)
> >>>
> >>>- One or more project leader(s)
> >>>
> >>> Deeper knowledge of the e-libs would be a requirement, also
> >>>the general
> >>>management and organization of the project would be part of
> >>>the task.
> >>>
> >>>- Worker bees
> >>>
> >>> People willing to contribute to the code, all different
> >>>levels of
> >>>experience welcome.
> >>>
> >>>- Testers
> >>>
> >>> Even if you don't feel ready to do some coding you may be a
> >>>valuable help
> >>>if you can take some time every once in a while to do code
> >>>testing and write
> >>>high quality feedback reports.
> >>>
> >>>It's not clear if this will eventually lead to a real
> >>>(sub-)project, that
> >>>depends vastly on the reactions to this call. Therefore,
> >>>please spread this
> >>>call around, but don't forget to point out that the primary
> >>>coordination
> >>>point - until an own infrastructure has been set up - is the
> >>>"enlightenment
> >>>user mailing list":
> >>>http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=3Denlightenment-use=
rs
> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------
> >>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration
> >>Strategies
> >>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward
> >>articles,
> >>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get
> >>up to
> >>speed, fast.
> >>http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7477&alloc_id=3D16492&op=3Dclick
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>enlightenment-users mailing list
> >>enl...@li...
> >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
> from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
> informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to
> speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7477&alloc_id=3D16492&op=3Dclick
> _______________________________________________
> enlightenment-users mailing list
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From: Christian P. <cpe...@gm...> - 2005-07-22 17:11:02
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Hmmm... x and e are different worlds (but i'm also no expert, still far away) [snippet] Edje provides a revolutionary library and tool set for /completely/ abstracting application interfaces from their code, including a complex and flexible method of designing interfaces [/snippet] For me this sounds as if e knows exactly what's inside the window... But as said, we need assistence from the masters of code, else we won't get far without snapshots ;) greets, Chris Christian Engels wrote: >As far as i know this is not possible. EFL can only control what EFL draws. >Everything in a Window is drawn by the app and it's libraries. Thats what i >mean with "E17 doesn't knwo what is in the window". It just know: "aha this >is the app firefox with this position..." > >I am not a developer but i read a bit about X and how it works, but perhaps i >am wrong. > > > > |
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From: Dmitry R. <dra...@un...> - 2005-07-22 17:59:03
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Christian Pedaschus wrote: >For me this sounds as if e knows exactly what's inside the window... > > Well, yes and no. E knows everything that goes on inside a window using edje. Which doesn't include such goodies and common programs as mozilla firefox, the beagle search interface, and evolution. Which means that you should have a very good expose-like effect, but only for e components. Which is not quite the same thing. Now, if we wait long enough for the composite extention to get wide acceptance/driver support/not corrupt the root window, then e, as well as any other app that uses X, should have access to the offscreen buffer. Which would actually let us do this sort of thing properly. Personally, I'm waiting for a composite-enabled pager. --Dmitry |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-22 20:07:06
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Dmitry Rashkeev said: > Now, if we wait long enough for the composite extention to get > wide > acceptance/driver support/not corrupt the root window, then e, > as well > as any other app that uses X, should have access to the > offscreen > buffer. Which would actually let us do this sort of thing > properly. > Personally, I'm waiting for a composite-enabled pager. > Could you give me some more insight about the composite extension? Is that a X thingy? > --Dmitry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward > articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get > up to > speed, fast. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > -- Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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From: Dmitry R. <dra...@un...> - 2005-07-22 20:17:05
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Yes, composite is a new extention to X, much like Render (which does onscreen rendering of antialiased fonts). It was created by X.org for the X11R6.8 release. It's slightly slow on most machines right now, except a few fast radeons. It can be used for things like real shadows from windows (that get dropped on the window below, not just the desktop, and are correctly updated), true menu transparency (so you can have, say, a DVD player with transparent menus, the movie plays in real time under the open menu), and things like expose. Check out my previous post for more info on that one. Currently it's way slower than evas, and so the e17 developers are somewhat aloof about it. Eventually, they'll have to succumb as well. KDE, xfce, and e16 already have support for it. If you want it, install the latest X.org server. If you don't use one of the above environments, also install xcompmgr and transset. Google them for more info. Yours, Dmitry Paulo Jorge de Oliveira Cantante de Matos wrote: >Dmitry Rashkeev said: > > > >>Now, if we wait long enough for the composite extention to get >>wide >>acceptance/driver support/not corrupt the root window, then e, >>as well >>as any other app that uses X, should have access to the >>offscreen >>buffer. Which would actually let us do this sort of thing >>properly. >>Personally, I'm waiting for a composite-enabled pager. >> >> >> > >Could you give me some more insight about the composite >extension? Is that a X thingy? > > > > >>--Dmitry >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------- >>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration >>Strategies >>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward >>articles, >>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get >>up to >>speed, fast. >>http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click >>_______________________________________________ >>enlightenment-users mailing list >>enl...@li... >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users >> >> >> > > > > |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-22 20:00:35
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Christian Pedaschus said: > Because if the content of a window is fully themable, there > also should > be the possibility to adjust the size of all elements inside > the window, > at least i understand it this way... (?) > Rasterman (or someone else with the needed knowledge), plz show > us the > right way to go :) > I'm really not sure about this but I imagine that it would be possible to "imitate" Expos=E9 completely if ALL software is based in EFL, however that is not the case so probably, we're not able to control the content of a window if its app was developed in for example, gtk+. So perhaps, if we could possibly know if we have a software written with EFL we could optimize the software to work with its window and if it is not written with EFL, we would just take the snapshot... Probably I'm completely on the wrong track but that's just my two cents... > Greets, Christian Pedaschus > > PS. Anyone else has probs reaching www.enlightenment.org? It's > very > slow and often aborts connection ...? (could be on my side too, > my isp > changed some things shortly) > > > > > Paulo Jorge de Oliveira Cantante de Matos wrote: > >>Christian Pedaschus said: >> >> >>>PS. Just read the message from Christian Engels and i think, >>>that this >>>should be no >>>problem. >>>As an Idea: The windows don't need to be refreshed while >>>showing them in >>>epose (would be nice, but is not needed for the >>> functionality) >>>, so it >>>would(?) be enough, >>>to just take a screenshot of the window, resize and display >>> it. >>>no need >>>for e to change >>>font-sizes or take care of the layout 'inside' the window. >>>perhaps i missed something in expose (never used it), but i >>>guess that >>>should be >>>working, or? Plz correct me if i'm wrong.. >>> >>> >>> >> >>At least for a first-version features I agree with Christian. >> >> >> >>>Thomas Kleinbauer wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>So, I really have no clue at all about the e17 internals, >>>> but >>>>I do have some >>>>programming experience and would be willing to participate >>>> in >>>>an effort to >>>>create something like Expos=E9 for e17. But I think, somebody >>>>with a more >>>>profound insight into the libraries would be needed to lead >>>>such a project, >>>>therefore I'd like to post this official >>>> >>>>Call for Participation >>>>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>> >>>>In order to implement a functionality similar to Max OSX' >>>>Expos=E9 >>>>(http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/), we are >>>> looking >>>>for people >>>>willing to contribute in any helpful way. In particular, the >>>>following >>>>positions are open ;-) >>>> >>>>- One or more project leader(s) >>>> >>>> Deeper knowledge of the e-libs would be a requirement, also >>>>the general >>>>management and organization of the project would be part of >>>>the task. >>>> >>>>- Worker bees >>>> >>>> People willing to contribute to the code, all different >>>>levels of >>>>experience welcome. >>>> >>>>- Testers >>>> >>>> Even if you don't feel ready to do some coding you may be a >>>>valuable help >>>>if you can take some time every once in a while to do code >>>>testing and write >>>>high quality feedback reports. >>>> >>>>It's not clear if this will eventually lead to a real >>>>(sub-)project, that >>>>depends vastly on the reactions to this call. Therefore, >>>>please spread this >>>>call around, but don't forget to point out that the primary >>>>coordination >>>>point - until an own infrastructure has been set up - is the >>>>"enlightenment >>>>user mailing list": >>>>http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=3Denlightenment-us= ers >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>------------------------------------------------------- >>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration >>>Strategies >>>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward >>>articles, >>>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get >>>up to >>>speed, fast. >>>http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7477&alloc_id=3D16492&op=3Dclick >>>_______________________________________________ >>>enlightenment-users mailing list >>>enl...@li... >>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward > articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get > up to > speed, fast. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7477&alloc_id=3D16492&op=3Dclick > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > --=20 Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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From: Christian E. <der...@gm...> - 2005-07-22 15:26:18
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Ok but the "!we take a screenshot and draw it"-method is used in amny programms (skippy, kompose) it will work so, but it is not "the real thing". If you want this to implement in e17 it will be all right (and efl will help you with the images i think). Perhaps you can implement it as a modul, so the WM doesn't get more code than it needs. > PS. Just read the message from Christian Engels and i think, that this > should be no > problem. > As an Idea: The windows don't need to be refreshed while showing them in > epose (would be nice, but is not needed for the functionality) , so it > would(?) be enough, > to just take a screenshot of the window, resize and display it. no need > for e to change > font-sizes or take care of the layout 'inside' the window. > perhaps i missed something in expose (never used it), but i guess that > should be > working, or? Plz correct me if i'm wrong.. > |
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From: Christian P. <cpe...@gm...> - 2005-07-22 16:02:21
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Agreed, see my message from 17:22. Greets, Chris Christian Engels wrote: >Ok but the "!we take a screenshot and draw it"-method is used in amny >programms (skippy, kompose) it will work so, but it is not "the real thing". > >If you want this to implement in e17 it will be all right (and efl will help >you with the images i think). > >Perhaps you can implement it as a modul, so the WM doesn't get more code than >it needs. > > >>PS. Just read the message from Christian Engels and i think, that this >>should be no >>problem. >>As an Idea: The windows don't need to be refreshed while showing them in >>epose (would be nice, but is not needed for the functionality) , so it >>would(?) be enough, >>to just take a screenshot of the window, resize and display it. no need >>for e to change >>font-sizes or take care of the layout 'inside' the window. >>perhaps i missed something in expose (never used it), but i guess that >>should be >>working, or? Plz correct me if i'm wrong.. >> >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------- >SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies >from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, >informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to >speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click >_______________________________________________ >enlightenment-users mailing list >enl...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > > > > |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-22 20:03:58
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Christian Engels said: > Ok but the "!we take a screenshot and draw it"-method is used > in amny > programms (skippy, kompose) it will work so, but it is not "the > real thing". > It would definitely be something to start with. Optimizations and new features could come after. Probably after knowing better this type of software and EFL (I speak for me) we could have much more insight on the problem and get nicer ideas. > If you want this to implement in e17 it will be all right (and > efl will help > you with the images i think). > > Perhaps you can implement it as a modul, so the WM doesn't get > more code than > it needs. >> PS. Just read the message from Christian Engels and i think, >> that this >> should be no >> problem. >> As an Idea: The windows don't need to be refreshed while >> showing them in >> epose (would be nice, but is not needed for the >> functionality) , so it >> would(?) be enough, >> to just take a screenshot of the window, resize and display >> it. no need >> for e to change >> font-sizes or take care of the layout 'inside' the window. >> perhaps i missed something in expose (never used it), but i >> guess that >> should be >> working, or? Plz correct me if i'm wrong.. >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward > articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get > up to > speed, fast. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > -- Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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From: Dmitry R. <dra...@un...> - 2005-07-22 18:27:12
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By the way, this has already been done. I'm not sure how well it works (I don't have e17 installed as of now, and don't feel like experimenting, but I'm sure some of you might be interested: http://www.freewebs.com/markulrich/expose2/index.htm I got this off the edevel mailing forums.http://thegraveyard.org/skippy.php Also check out http://dot.kde.org/1094687152/ for a kde equivalent. If you're still interested, try http://thegraveyard.org/skippy.php Yours, Dmitry |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-23 00:46:59
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Dmitry Rashkeev said: > By the way, this has already been done. I'm not sure how well > it works > (I don't have e17 installed as of now, and don't feel like > experimenting, but I'm sure some of you might be interested: > > http://www.freewebs.com/markulrich/expose2/index.htm Seems a start.. Haven't checked the source but is it totally based on EFL? Seems not, but it uses imlib2. > > I got this off the edevel mailing > forums.http://thegraveyard.org/skippy.php > Skippy 0.5.0 has some problems with E16, can't figure out why and surely not based on EFL. > Also check out http://dot.kde.org/1094687152/ for a kde > equivalent. > Haven't tried but I can guess... > If you're still interested, try > http://thegraveyard.org/skippy.php > > Yours, > > Dmitry > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward > articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get > up to > speed, fast. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > -- Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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From: Hisham M. B. <his...@gm...> - 2005-07-23 07:53:10
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Hello folks, I've just finished going through the entire thread, and here are some things you should keep in mind if you plan on doing this. 1) E knows nothing about the contents of any window (even if it was done in EFL). This means that the "resizing / re-redering" scheme that was mentioned doesnt really apply. 2) E can move / resize windows, but that would only have the same effect as resizing them with a mouse for example. 3) The current way this has been implemented in various apps is by polling and screenshotting at various intervals, thats why you might always run into instances where the previews are: a) incomplete b) older than the current window This happens because the window is covered by another and the application cant screenshot it properly. 4) This sort of code will not make it into E. Someone mentioned a module, that might be a logical move, it is, however, still against the E "policy". E doesnt really like things along the lines of pseudo-trans or screenshotting etc. Having said that, I would like to urge you to start work on this project asap, as it could prove to be a nice experience. If you need any help, please pass by #edevelop on freenode or continue to post to the mailing lists. Best Regards, Hisham / CodeWarrior. --=20 Hisham Mardam Bey MSc (Computer Science) http://hisham.cc/ +9613609386 Codito Ergo Sum (I Code Therefore I Am) |
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From: Paulo J. de O. C. de M. <po...@sa...> - 2005-07-23 11:36:18
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Hisham Mardam Bey said: > > 3) The current way this has been implemented in various apps is > by > polling and screenshotting at various intervals, thats why you > might > always run into instances where the previews are: > a) incomplete > b) older than the current window > This happens because the window is covered by another and the > application cant screenshot it properly. > Skippy-XD provides live images of the windows! Which is not possible, if you can only take snapshots every 'x' seconds. From its homepage: "Skippy-XD is a version of Skippy that uses the new XDamage, XComposite and XFixes extensions (found in FreeDesktop.org's Xserver project) to provide you with 'live' versions of the windows. Exciting, isn't it?" Can't imagine how this is done but it seems to have potential. Also haven't seen skippy-XD working. -- Paulo Jorge Matos - pocm at sat inesc-id pt Web: http://sat.inesc-id.pt/~pocm Computer and Software Engineering INESC-ID - SAT Group |
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